Home | Community | Message Board

Please support our sponsors.

General Interest >> Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology

Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Amazon Shop for: Aldous Huxley, San Pedro

Jump to first unread post. Pages: 1
Registered: 12/30/02
Posts: 1
Last seen: 13 years, 9 months
Psylocibes and depression - your thoughts?
    #1179549 - 12/30/02 11:04 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Hello. I've been a lurker for a while and finally created an account. I am extremely curious about some things and would everyone's input on the subject. I'm scouring the 'net researching on this subject since it has some pertinance to my situation.

1) Depression and Tripping - should they be combined? I am not talking about 'depressed because I had an argument 2 hours earlier', or depressed because 'my biology test was low'. I'm referring to prolonged, recurring, and/or medically diagnosed depression. Is a person who suffers from depression automatically predisposed to a 'bad trip?' Even if their immediate surrounds and circumstances at the time of the tripping are friendly?

2) Combining anti-depressants and/or other SSRI's with tripping - what effects can they have? Has anyone found if taking these sorts of drugs affects or increases/diminishes the potency of Psylocibes? Drugs like Paxil, Prozac, Zoloft are examples. Many people who suffer from depression have to take such drugs on a regular and prolonged basis so simply "not taking them" is not an option. (Many of them give you horrible withdrawal side effects when coming off them - I know firsthand.) I'm not looking for discussion of the pros and cons of those drugs, I am wondering on the effects of tripping while on them.

Mostly I am interested in if tripping can have any behavioral/thought process effects that can benefit a person suffering from depression. Certain characteristics of tripping such as the introspective nature many people can take, euphoria, and enlightenment have made me extremely interested in the process of tripping. I can think I can see potential for being able to face and learn more about ones self through tripping and perhaps come to grips with many things that can cause (or be a part of) depression such as self esteem issues, grieving, repressed memories or feelings, flawed thinking, self defeating behavior, etc, etc.

On the flip-side, it could be opening a pandoras box of terrible things. Would one be messing around with an already unstable 'house of cards' by tripping while being depressed?

I've read all sorts of accounts of tripping that range from amazing introspection to absolute horror. What can one expect suffering from depression and tripping? Or is there any difference? I'm not expecting anyone here to be medical doctors giving me profound scientific proof - this is the 'net and every bit of information should be 'taken with a grain of salt'. Mostly I'm looking for personal accounts and individual introspection into this subject. Actual input on the tripping experiences of people who are on SSRI's or suffering depression would be especially useful.

So, with that out of the way, does anyone want to help me by posting? Or perhaps has a link or information on this subject? Thanks for taking the time to read this and thanks in advance for posting.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleCow Shit Collector
Patty Poacher

Registered: 02/15/01
Posts: 1,959
Loc: Random Field
Re: Psylocibes and depression - your thoughts? [Re: gothicwolf]
    #1179605 - 12/30/02 11:27 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

My opinion:
It does open the box, sometimes showing you things you need to deal with, sometimes showing you the 'truth.' By facing your deepest fears and dealing with them, the trip will suddenly rise to a great feeling of euphoria and insight can be taken from the experience and applied to daily life.
If one is not quite mentally stable, psychoactives could; a) throw them deeper into whatever they are suffering from or b) help them see a fresh path to take, see the beauty in life, and communicate with themselves to possibly sort out some problems. The latter case being a very positive experience for the psyche, possibly acting as a catalyst for a new outlook or subconscious change.


Life's a garden, Dig it!
~Joe Dirt

Off Topic Website

Edited by Cow Shit Collector (12/30/02 11:29 AM)

Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Bitches Brew
 User Gallery

Registered: 06/04/02
Posts: 1,343
Loc: Atlanta, GA
Last seen: 4 years, 11 months
Re: Psylocibes and depression - your thoughts? [Re: gothicwolf]
    #1179918 - 12/30/02 01:41 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

It is a matter of circumstance and setting. Under certain controlled settings, Psychedelics, especially mushrooms, can be infinitely useful in treating depression, ego, and many other problems that society has inadvertently forced apon their own kind.

Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Registered: 11/22/02
Posts: 30
Loc: Vancouver BC
Last seen: 12 years, 5 months
Re: Psylocibes and depression - your thoughts? [Re: gothicwolf]
    #1179994 - 12/30/02 02:12 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

I would say from personal expereince that, that anyone who is not 'ready' for a shroom trip can can go way way way deeper into depression then before. I presonaly was not depressed, but after a few level 5 trips I saw that how it would be possible for me to go into depression, and even not recover in this lifetime. Its seems like a joke, but its the most most serious thing. And please do not mix antidepressants with a shroom trip. If you trip, trip clean, while being in a relaxed mood, with good open people, or alone, where there is some nature to go look at, but also a place to go and rest, like a house. The test to see if you are ready for a trip, is to have the shrooms in front of you, and if your mind and body become nervous and freak out, or you start shaking, then please save your self for a different time. Your mind might try to convince you and say things like, oh dont be a pussy, just do it, but it is my advice not to listen to that. If you are a herb smoker, you can smoke after you eat some, otherwise do not. The herb will intensify the trip quite a bit. A good book to read before shrooming is 'Island' by Aldous Huxley(spell?)
It is possible to have very very profound expereinces that are infinitely beyond the imagination, and they can change us forever, so please be careful.

By the way, constant depression may be a sign of an extreme mineral dificiency, and can simply be a health problem. Eating too much sugar in a life time, or having a mineral deficinet mother, will do the trick. There is a way out of that, and you can send me a message for furhter info on that subject, or any other subject.
"While the professional psychiatrist verbally says that depression and manic depression are due to 'feelings that we are out of control of our lives, negative thinking, self recrimmination(I am a looser) are the root causes of depression', they treat depression sucessfully with the trace mineral lithium - depression and manic depression with all that implies are simply a lithium deficiency aggravated by high sugar consumption." - Rare Earths, Forbidden Cures by Dr. Joel Wallch.

In case you like to purchace some lithium, do not go to the drug store or the health food store, because to get rid of the problem properly, you need all the other trace minerals, because they all work together. Anyways, in case you like to know more, just send me a message.


Please look within. Try. Try more.

Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
ℚṲℰϟ✞ЇѺℵ ℛ∃Åʟḯ†У
Male User Gallery

Registered: 11/24/01
Posts: 10,211
Loc: Bloomington, IN
Last seen: 1 year, 7 months
Re: Psylocibes and depression - your thoughts? [Re: gothicwolf]
    #1180014 - 12/30/02 02:24 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

If you are ready to confront anything, even your deepest fears, then go for it. The only way we can grow is by stepping through our fears, through the darkness.

:heartpump: { { { ṧ◎ηḯ¢ αʟ¢ℌ℮мƴ } } } :heartpump:

Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 09/24/00
Posts: 2,331
Loc: tartarus
Last seen: 8 months, 3 days
Re: Psylocibes and depression - your thoughts? [Re: gothicwolf]
    #1180127 - 12/30/02 03:50 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

My gf is a major depression centre. I cant blame her. She's had an ass-fuck of a life. However, i've tripped with her a few times, and i've only seen positive things come out of it for her. She always end up saying stuff like 'why did i ever get angry at that?' and 'i shouldn't even feel bad about that.'
Sadly enough tho, she tends to forget these discoveries. =\

Anyway, that lithium thing surprised me. My gf DOES eat like shit pretty much. Her diet consists of fast food and 'fast foods' like kraft dinners and other crap like that. I try and tell her, but she's kinda psycho, so i gave that up.  :crazy:
You've gotten me interested in this...i never knew that mineral deficiency could cause depression.

(uhm...wait, i think i have, its just that my memory= 0.02% of original capacity, so thanx for reminding me. Altho i didnt know it was related to lithium and such.)  :smirk:


~Happy sailing~

Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Barbless Aryan

Registered: 10/05/02
Posts: 1,286
Loc: The Canadian west coast
Last seen: 11 years, 7 months
Re: Psylocibes and depression - your thoughts? [Re: gothicwolf]
    #1180359 - 12/30/02 06:32 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Hey dude,
I think you shouldn't combine antidepressants with mushrooms, and I get the impression that you haven't tripped before. If I'm right then I would say don't read too much stuff about it, you'll just start expecting things that don't happen, and build it up too much. I don't think depression is a problem at all at 2 grams or so.

Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Male User Gallery

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 05/16/02
Posts: 21,014
Loc: the timbers of Fennario
Re: Psylocibes and depression - your thoughts? [Re: gothicwolf]
    #1181122 - 12/31/02 06:03 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

I?m quite surprised at some of the responses I have read so far. Most people including myself would say in general terms that depression and tripping do not mix well. However as I think more about it I believe that is associated more with a depressed state of mind and not a chronic state of depression. It sounds to me as though you are looking for something that may help you with a long-term problem. If that is the case I would recommend going about it as any new tripster does starting with low doses. BTW paxil and shrooms are no problem.

The bus came by and I got on that's when it all began!

Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator

Re: Psylocibes and depression - your thoughts? [Re: gothicwolf]
    #1196588 - 01/07/03 04:23 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Man. I reckon state of mind is important for a trip. But more likely than not (unless your antidepressants have bought you round already) you wont be in the best state of mind when you trip. And I ask you is your sanity really worth the risk? There are very effective counselling therapies for depression. I got depressed once and a book called "learned optimisim" is really good for a couple of psychological strategies for countering negative thoughts which precede negatve mood. Those strategies got me out of my depression.

Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator

Re: Psylocibes and depression - your thoughts? [Re: gothicwolf]
    #1198300 - 01/07/03 04:38 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

This page lists the interactions between different types of antidepressants and psylocin and lsd. Looks like the effects of psilocybin are reduced a bit on SSRIs


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator

Registered: 01/01/03
Posts: 53
Loc: Seattle, Washington
Re: Psylocibes and depression - your thoughts? [Re: gothicwolf]
    #1198395 - 01/07/03 05:30 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

This is a very important and interesting question. Thank you for sharing it with us.

I think a lot depends on just how serious your depression is. If you have a mild case of clinical depression and are on a low dosage SSRI, perhaps it is worth a shot under very controlled conditions (more on that later).

The problem is that psilocybin works primarily through the serotonin receptors in the brain. As you are probably aware, SSRIs work by preventing the body from breaking down serotonin so higher levels are present in the brain. The fact is, though, that even doctors and pharmaceutical companies are not 100% sure how serotonin works and exactly why it works that way. Therefore, I wouldn't trust the info on the Erowid site 100% either.

If you are on a low-dose SSRI regimen, I think you might consider giving it a shot. However, you need to find an appropriate person with whom to trip. I think the following qualifications are necessary:
1. The person must be somebody who has experienced mushrooms him/herself and is familiar with the effects.
2. The person must be somebody you trust completely.
3. The person should preferably be somebody who loves and cares for you.
4. The person should be somebody who is level-headed enough to talk you through what might be a very difficult trip, and who has the patience and stamina to do so for a number of hours, without getting angry, impatient, or irritable.

The environment should be comfortable, safe, and reassuring.

I know this is a difficult set of conditions to fulfill, but I don't think you should underestimate the potential for serious psychological disturbance from a bad trip. Having these conditions in place can create the possility of a very good and rewarding trip, and provides a safety net in case things don't go well.

If you are on a very high dose regimen of anti-depressants, have had very difficult, refractory depressions, or have serious suicidal tendencies, I would recommend not tripping under any circumstances. I once had to talk somebody through a bad trip (on the phone) who was ready to jump off a 15th floor balcony. Somebody I care about very much. It was one of the worst days of my life, and I wouldn't wish such a thing on anybody.

Peace and good luck be with you.

Edited by MountainMist (01/07/03 05:33 PM)

Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator

Re: Psylocibes and depression - your thoughts? [Re: gothicwolf]
    #1198400 - 01/07/03 05:33 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Hi. I just thought I would also add that I used to be a research assistant in psychiatry and - I dont know how effective your SSRIs have been, but if you are thinking of trying lithium, the SSRIs may increase the effects of the lithium. So you could take a smaller dose of the lithium or try it by itself. Though if you are going to try it by itself make sure you ease off the antidepressant slowly because it does make a difference. Like over a couple of weeks. Im also doing a psychology thesis on depression so if you want to post me here or privately about somthing I might be able to help...

Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator

Re: Psylocibes and depression - your thoughts? [Re: gothicwolf]
    #1198452 - 01/07/03 05:56 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

To mountainmists list of conditions re when it wouldnt be a good idea to take your first trip while depressed I would add - if you have anxiety with your depression because you wouldn't want to have a panic attack while tripping. Also, if you have psychotic depression because of the potential for trips to trigger a more serious psychosis.

Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator

Re: Psylocibes and depression - your thoughts? [Re: gothicwolf]
    #1198594 - 01/07/03 06:40 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Hi. I found a refereed journal article abstract which supports the erowid claim. Its pasted below :smile:

Bonson, Katherine R; Buckholtz, Joshua W; Murphy, Dennis L.

Chronic administration of serotonergic antidepressants attenuates the subjective effects of LSD in humans.

Neuropsychopharmacology. Vol 14(6) Jun 1996, 425-436.
Elsevier Science, US

Examined the possible interactions of antidepressant agents and hallucinogens in humans through structured interviews using a standardized questionnaire. 33 volunteers (aged 15-37 yrs), recruited through announcements placed on the Internet or other sources, were asked to describe the somatic, hallucinatory, and psychological effects of self-administered LSD prior to and during chronic administration of an antidepressant. 28 out of 32 Ss (88%) who had taken an antidepressant with inhibitory effects on serotonin reuptake (fluoxetine, paroxetine, sertraline, trazodone) for over 3 wks had a subjective decrease or virtual elimination of their responses to LSD. An additional S who had taken fluoxetine for only 1 wk had an increased response to LSD. Data are in contrast to previous findings (K. R. Bonson and D. L. Murphy, in press) of increased responses to LSD during chronic administration of tricyclic antidepressants or lithium. (PsycINFO Database Record (c) 2002 APA, all rights reserved)

Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator

Re: Psylocibes and depression - your thoughts? [Re: Dogomush]
    #1198743 - 01/07/03 07:27 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)


If I'm right then I would say don't read too much stuff about it, you'll just start expecting things that don't happen, and build it up too much.

I'd say the opposite. Read as much as you can, and try to see as many viewpoints from as many people as possible, and then decide if it's something you're up to.

I've been depressed and on anti-depressants and tripped before, really more than anything it still comes down to set and setting for me. What kind of mood I'm in, where I am, and who I'm with.

I don't think being depressed means you shouldn't do shrooms per se. It's really all about you. Educate yourself and then make a decision accordingly.

Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator

Registered: 08/25/01
Posts: 889
Loc: George "I love Hitler" Bu...
Last seen: 12 years, 7 months
Re: Psylocibes and depression - your thoughts? [Re: gothicwolf]
    #1198760 - 01/07/03 07:32 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

That is about the best first post I have ever seen. Nice thoughts.

You ask many good questions and as a person who likes things as simple as possible I want to try to answer them in as simple of a way as possible.

To be a complete exsistentialist bastard, I must ask, is there a wrong way to do psychedelics? If you were to take most of the opinions on these boards to heart there is very little "right" or "wrong" at least on subjective terms. If you freak out and hijack a busload of nuns and smash them into a school it could be a good thing or bad thing based on your perspective.

It seems to me your talking mostly talking about negotiating yourself within our current cultural paradigm and nor really about the good of ones "soul" as it were. Your trapped into a scientific model in every one of your examples. Either way you still got to feed yourself, keep yourself realtivly clean so you don't die of infection, and get along with other humans. In my way of thinking and where I am at, that is the basics. If your trying to get some kind of clinical definitions and insights then your really barking up the wrong tree and need to stick to chemistry and your basic psychology trips, all of which are locked into the dominant accepted paradigm....

Support bacteria - they're the only culture some people have.

Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Registered: 01/07/03
Posts: 1
Last seen: 8 years, 1 month
Re: Psylocibes and depression - your thoughts? [Re: gothicwolf]
    #1203815 - 01/09/03 11:12 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Guest for all PLEASE read your PM as im very interested in what you have to say about those minerals


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: Psylocibes and depression - your thoughts? [Re: gothicwolf]
    #1203865 - 01/09/03 11:51 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Nice post gothic. My own experience is that shrooms are the single most important tool for alleviating depression on the planet. Anti-depressants don't even come close and have all sorts of unpleasant side effects.

There is a difference between tripping when you're feeling hopeless and tripping when you have a big specific worry on your mind. When you're just "generally down" then mushrooms can be a massive help - as Bill Hicks said "When i take mushrooms i get hope". However, if you have a specific worry that's playing on your mind, shrooms may amplify that. There is a subtle distinction between the two.

If you're interested in exploring your problems then mushrooms are the tool, if you're interested in a slightly less introspective experience then perhaps san pedro should be your first choice. I think san pedro is often kinder and more easy-going than mushrooms for many people.

Don't worry, B. Caapi

Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator

Re: Psylocibes and depression - your thoughts? [Re: questforall]
    #1204157 - 01/09/03 01:43 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Hi. Look I dont doubt that a deficiency in lithium could contribute to depression. Though it is not the only cause of depression. That some people dont respond to lithium treatment suggests that there was no deficiency in those people. Also, the onset of depression is usually associated with some kind of stressor and the notion of a purely biological depression is pretty much discredited these days. There is usually a psychological cause and a combination of psychological and biological factors maintain depression. Aside from lithium deficiency there are a number of other medical causes including hypothyroidism, vascular disease including diabetes, and lesions to regions of the brain that regulate emotion. Some people have a dysfunctional feedback mechanism so that their bodies cannot detect and regulate the amount of cortisol in their system (cortisol is the stress hormone). But other people dont. Different people respond to tricyclic antidepressants, SSRIs, MAOIs, Reversible MAOIs, tetracyclic antidepressants or one but not another drug of one of these subclasses, or they might respond to lithium or another mood stabilliser. What this all suggests is that the biology of depression is quite different for different individuals. While people have different biologies, psychological treatments are effective for all types of depression, though if someone is moderately to severely depressed they may need some type of drug in order to be cognitively flexible enough to use the psychological treatments effectively. Psychological treatments are associated with less relapse also. So actually if I was going to recommend any treatment for all depressions I'd recommend the psychological ones, preferably CBT because that has been found to be the most efficient.

By the way, lithium may have side effects like any psych drug though for some people only minimally, but others more so. They are nausea, weight gain, skin problems (eg worsening of poriasis and acne), gastrointestinal upset, hypothyrodism, hand tremor and less need for social interaction.

Edited by Anonymous (01/09/03 01:49 PM)

Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
 User Gallery

Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 4,454
Last seen: 3 years, 9 months
Re: Psylocibes and depression - your thoughts? [Re: gothicwolf]
    #1204586 - 01/09/03 04:20 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

I've had a history of overwhelming depression that ive just recently gotten over.
I had a couple intense shroom trips while taking Paxil.

I'm not too educated on the subject but this is my take on it.

Anti-depressants are providing you an alternate route for dealing with your fears, instead of overcoming them through life experiences. That's not to say you can't overcome and learn things while on meds, but it's harder to really look at the problem when you can't see it clearly.
sometimes shit gets so bad and you really dont know where to turn, and in that case i think meds are like a breather... unfortunately you get hooked on em, and dont want to experience the withdrawls.

now when you bring the mushies into it... i think it just throws the reality of all your fears that may be hiding right in your face.. you feel it too.. in the pit of your soul.. your like "oh man.. there it is... i dont want to think about that..." and if you try to deny that they are there then your gonna have a bad one regardless (unless theres something fun going on to take your mind off it, i suppose) But as soon as you have some time to yourself, your gonna start thinking about yourself and your reality, which you SHOULDN'T be afraid of.

So yea.. pretty much what others have said.. Tripping is a good opportunity to confront your depression, but only if your really ready to, and ready to possibly face intense feelings of depression to learn how to overcome it.

uh... im really tired and I can't words things right now (can you tell????)

anyways, Message me if you have any questions, id be glad to share what experience i have with this

Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Jump to top. Pages: 1

Amazon Shop for: Aldous Huxley, San Pedro

General Interest >> Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology

Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Smarter u r, more likely u r to get Depressed...
( 1 2 3 4 all )
lucid 5,044 63 01/21/05 05:39 PM
by incubaby_421
* depressing
( 1 2 all )
Kremlin 2,274 36 01/18/04 11:59 PM
by Viaggio
* How Much can YOU CHANGE ?... provoking your thoughts...
( 1 2 all )
lucid 1,699 29 11/20/04 01:12 AM
by fireworks_god
* Depression questforall 748 5 01/02/03 01:20 AM
by CrowHeart
* Being depressed.
( 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 all )
Icelander 6,488 137 11/09/08 09:09 PM
by Arden
* Sprituality no defense against depression/suffering
( 1 2 all )
lucid 2,295 29 08/05/04 11:00 PM
by MarkostheGnostic
* An interesting thing on Depression
( 1 2 3 4 all )
Icelander 2,928 74 03/29/09 12:21 AM
by Poid
* The rise of depression
( 1 2 all )
Mixomatosis 1,847 20 12/16/03 05:28 PM
by fireworks_god

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Middleman, CosmicJoke, Diploid, Jokeshopbeard, DividedQuantum
1,457 topic views. 1 members, 11 guests and 7 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Toggle Favorite | Print Topic | Stats ]
Search this thread:
Please support our sponsors.

Copyright 1997-2016 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.121 seconds spending 0.002 seconds on 15 queries.