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OfflineTwirling
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The Pineal Gland, LSD and Serotonin
    #1957696 - 09/27/03 06:41 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

http://taolodge.com/pineal_org.html

Very interesting stuff


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The very nature of experience is ineffable; it transcends cognitive thought and intellectualized analysis. To be without experience is to be without an emotional knowledge of what the experience translates into. The desire for the understanding of what life is made of is the motivation that drives us all. Without it, in fear of the experiences what life can hold is among the greatest contradictions; to live in fear of death while not being alive.



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Offlinemonoamine
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Re: The Pineal Gland, LSD and Serotonin [Re: Twirling]
    #1958122 - 09/27/03 09:43 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Yeah,like Strassman's work,it's interesting,but beyond the fact that the pineal has something to do with melatonin (a serotonin metabolite) and the body's sleep cycle,nothing has been proven.

DMT has never been shown to exist in the brain and I don't want to offend anyone's spiritual beliefs,but I don't buy this third eye,pineal stuff. It's not really even that important of a brain structure according to current neurology (which admititally is far from knowing everything.)


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InvisibleMarioNett
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Re: The Pineal Gland, LSD and Serotonin [Re: monoamine]
    #1958653 - 09/28/03 02:03 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

DMT has never been shown to exist in the brain




I've read in many places that it has. Can I get some clarification on this, please?


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: The Pineal Gland, LSD and Serotonin [Re: MarioNett]
    #1959092 - 09/28/03 06:58 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Small amounts of DMT are released everytime we go to sleep, it has said that massive amounts are released when we die...

But then again, I don't study brains...
Peace.


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Like being here
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InvisibleDoctorJ
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Re: The Pineal Gland, LSD and Serotonin [Re: fireworks_god]
    #1959337 - 09/28/03 12:12 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

very interesting read

I think that in the search for new antidepressants and other neccessary psychiatric drugs, the tryptamine family will be very important.

too bad those nazi bastards wont let us study the scheduled compounds without cutting through a million miles of FDA red tape


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peace, pot, and microdot!


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OfflineTwirling
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Re: The Pineal Gland, LSD and Serotonin [Re: DoctorJ]
    #1959419 - 09/28/03 12:49 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

I think these kinds of things are very interesting, but its currently not provable, but at the sametime they're not disproven either. All very theorectal, but there is a lot to learn from reading about it even if it isn't true.


--------------------
The very nature of experience is ineffable; it transcends cognitive thought and intellectualized analysis. To be without experience is to be without an emotional knowledge of what the experience translates into. The desire for the understanding of what life is made of is the motivation that drives us all. Without it, in fear of the experiences what life can hold is among the greatest contradictions; to live in fear of death while not being alive.



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OfflinePedM
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Re: The Pineal Gland, LSD and Serotonin [Re: DoctorJ]
    #1959434 - 09/28/03 12:57 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

>> DMT has never been shown to exist in the brain and I don't want to offend anyone's spiritual beliefs,but I don't buy this third eye,pineal stuff. It's not really even that important of a brain structure according to current neurology

Neurology is in a constant state of radical flux, and like all institutions under our cultural umbrella it is susceptible to influence from the notions that culture may cherish. Certainly today there is no industrialized civilization interested in research toward the link between our brains, our spirit, and hallucinogenic plants and chemicals. Such research would be heretical to the values of industrialized civilization itself.

DMT is endogenous to the human brain. If this is true even in small quantities, it is enormously significant. Active doses of DMT may seem to act as a bridge between dimensions. What would fractions of such a dosage do for us, sustained over a long period of time?

It would certainly, if only slightly, impact our perspective of reality.

We have to remember that our perspective of reality is governed entirely by the neurotransmitters in our brains. Serotonin is a key factor here, if not the greatest. Should we begin substitute 5-HT with another molecule, such as DMT or 4-HO-DMT, we notice sudden shifts in the way we think about things, process information, and perceive the world. DMT and 4-HO-DMT are efficacious with the same receptor sites as serotonin or any other active indoleamine. This raises a number of questions to the authenticity of our current "grounded" worldview, and suggests the applicable reality of new vistas gained with the introduction of neurotransmitters which alter the way our brains receive and process information.


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Offlinemonoamine
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Re: The Pineal Gland, LSD and Serotonin [Re: Ped]
    #1961430 - 09/29/03 12:40 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

There has actually been a good deal of research related to DMT because it was seen (even by many mainstream scientists) to be a possible endogenous psychosis mimicking chemical.

While metabolites of DMT have been found in spinal fluid and the blood,no DMT has ever been found in the brain tissue of man and various animals.

Quote:

Serotonin is a key factor here, if not the greatest.




GABA,glutamate,and as of yet undiscovered cannibinoid like ligands probably play a far more important role in the brain than serotonin.

I believe theories put forward by people like Jansen that say that near death experiences may be caused by natural ketamine like chemicals that put the brakes on over excitation hold a lot more water scientifically than the DMT theories put forward by people like Strassman. But,like you said,neurology is relatively primitive and in a constant state of flux,so who knows?

BTW,if you like Strassman's work,you would probably like Ketamine: Dreams and Realities ,even if you have no interest in Ketamine.


--------------------
People think that if you just say the word "hallucinations" it explains everything you want it to explain and eventually whatever it is you can't explain will just go away.It's just a word,it doesn't explain anything...
Douglas Adams


Edited by monoamine (09/29/03 12:44 AM)


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OfflinePedM
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Re: The Pineal Gland, LSD and Serotonin [Re: monoamine]
    #1964228 - 09/29/03 11:35 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

>> GABA, glutamate, and as of yet undiscovered cannibinoid like ligands probably play a far more important role in the brain than serotonin.

GABA and glutamate are post-synaptic hyperpolarizing neurotransmitters which diffuse potassium ions away from synaptic membrane and in turn deposite chloride ions. In doing so, the neuron's threshold has been raised and is therefore less excitable. GABA is a regulatory neurotransmitter which in my admittedly uneducated opinion doesn't play a primary role in the phenomenon of concious. Large doses of GABA inhibitory drugs have shown a slight increase in feelings of elation accompanied by lethargy and even mild sedation.

Other neurotransmiters like acetylcholine, catecholamines, and neuropeptides play their strongest rolls in motor control, the survival instinct, and and act as reward channels for the introduction of food or drink to the body.

Serotonin on the other hand is associated with such words as "empathy" and "compassion". These are examples of a much less rigid application of neurophysiology, and to me suggest a link between serotonin and the subtle nature of human conciousness.


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Offlinemonoamine
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Re: The Pineal Gland, LSD and Serotonin [Re: Ped]
    #1964292 - 09/29/03 11:57 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

I was just saying in the grand scheme of things,the monamines and catecholamines are less important than the slow ion chloride channel ones (GABA,glutamate,cannabinoid like ligands,aspartamine).

Take a high dose of barbiturates,a high dose of a drug like Lamictal (glutamate antagonist,not recommended)-or even a NMDA blocker like Ketamine,or some of the research cannabinoids that are full agonists,and get back to me.

Quote:

Serotonin on the other hand is associated with such words as "empathy" and "compassion".




That's a gross generalization. There are certain serotonin agonists that are very specific to certain serotonin receptors that commonally give suicidal,angry,and "dark" thoughts.

My point is that people place too much importance on one neurotransmitter/hormone/peptide and neglect the fact that they all work in synch.

Try taking some MDMA or LSD when you're going through opiate or GABAnergic withdrawal. You probably won't feel much empathy-just mortal terror. (I've been there before.)


--------------------
People think that if you just say the word "hallucinations" it explains everything you want it to explain and eventually whatever it is you can't explain will just go away.It's just a word,it doesn't explain anything...
Douglas Adams


Edited by monoamine (09/30/03 12:03 AM)


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OfflinePedM
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Re: The Pineal Gland, LSD and Serotonin [Re: monoamine]
    #1964778 - 09/30/03 02:31 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Settle down, man.

What are empathetic and compassionate thoughts without angry, loathsome thoughts? My point was that the indole compounds seem to be especially linked to the inexplicable "behind the eyelids" aspect of human conciousness. The endogenous indoleamines, as well as those in our diet, behave in such a matter that is queerily extradimensional.

Your point about all neurotransmitters being interdepedent is well received. Certainly any compound, be it Mescaline, MDMA, LSD or Psilocybin, would behave differently if the balance of the less-involved neurotransmitters were to be upset.


--------------------


:poison: Dark Triangles - New Psychedelic Techno Single - Listen on Soundcloud :poison:
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