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OfflinePDU
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Depression..
    #1732393 - 07/20/03 03:28 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Is it a product of society? Was it around before this fucked up civilization poppped up? Why is sadness passed through the gene's now a days?

Is it unnatural for us to experience such a profound lifealtering sadness? Does it occur in other species or is it only humanity?


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OfflineGrav
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Re: Depression.. [Re: PDU]
    #1732465 - 07/20/03 04:00 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

I tend to think it is a subconscious feeling of seperation from things that really matter to us. Our roots... the earth... ourselves, whatever.

I think that is because we have the time to think about things today. Before most of any free time was spent resting for the next work period, thus there wasn't really time to be depressed.

Maybe it is also a warning sign that we should be confronting something... a longing for real communication.

just some theories.


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InvisibleArmFromTheAbyss
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Re: Depression.. [Re: PDU]
    #1732469 - 07/20/03 04:04 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Without that pain/fear/anguish we would have died out thousands of years ago.


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OfflineDavid_Scape
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Re: Depression.. [Re: PDU]
    #1732471 - 07/20/03 04:04 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

A gut feeling is telling me that the Depression that can lead to suicide was around before civilization.

I dont know if it is 'unnatural' but it is obviously counter-productive and pathological like you might think a disease would be.

My take on this is that humans ability to 'float over their lives' can lead to this deep feeling of helplessness. Combine this with our ability to find opportunities for action in our enviroment and you get suicide.

I wonder how many individuals would have suicidal thoughts if they were'nt so aware of what it means symbolically. or if they werent so aware of what it meant socially.







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focusing
Flow
The Enneagram


Edited by David_Scape (07/20/03 04:05 PM)


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InvisiblethePatient
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Re: Depression.. [Re: PDU]
    #1732485 - 07/20/03 04:09 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Is it a product of society?

dictionary.com thinks its a: psychiatric disorder characterized by an inability to concentrate, insomnia, loss of appetite, anhedonia, feelings of extreme sadness, guilt, helplessness and hopelessness, and thoughts of death.


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T h e r e  a r e  n o  o r d i n a r y  m o m e n t s.


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OfflinePDU
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Re: Depression.. [Re: thePatient]
    #1732533 - 07/20/03 04:34 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

According to dictionary.com i would be depressed, but i am not...which is surly evident in some of my posts lately booming with enthusiasm for life.

<B>Grav:</b> I think your theory on depression being a seperation from "our roots" is right. People today are success driven, and some people (myself included) dont have that drive to attain "there" version of success and can easily Lose sight of their goals, their meaning, and with that...their willingness to maintain life.
Not only do we have nothing but time to think, for bad constant thought loops to develop and maintain, and to dwell on these, we have reason to have them...we are constantly made aware of bad things, things we hate, etc. through the news, or just walking down the street...Constant reminders of why we dont want to be here.
"Maybe it is also a warning sign that we should be confronting something... a longing for real communication."
Maybe need to confront themselves and pinpoint their inadequecies within themselves and fix them, resolve to feel better rather then depending upon the magical natural supplement, or anti depressant, or 100 dollar an hour counselour.

<B>David Scrape:

My take on this is that humans ability to 'float over their lives' can lead to this deep feeling of helplessness. Combine this with our ability to find opportunities for action in our enviroment and you get suicide.

I wonder how many individuals would have suicidal thoughts if they were'nt so aware of what it means symbolically. or if they werent so aware of what it meant socially.</b>

Since people dont even take the time to think about (let alone DO) which direction they WANT to go in with their lives, but rather than the direction they are subliminally guided through influence, or even the direction that is demanded of them. Of course...if they are pressured into a life they dont want, they are going to be hopeless...I think thats an example of a major fault in the system. Look at how many dissatisfied white suburban middle class kids there are. These kids (like me) Have all the oppurtunity in the world to do whatever they please, to start off on a satisfying life, but they dont even consider their own unconventional dreams as attainable. Of course they're going to be hopeless...and as you said, suicidal.


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InvisibleDoctorJ
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Re: Depression.. [Re: thePatient]
    #1732534 - 07/20/03 04:35 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

depression is constructive if you learn from it.  but the only thing you need to learn from depression is how not to be depressed :smile:

so in other words, depression is a waste of time.


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peace, pot, and microdot!


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Depression.. [Re: DoctorJ]
    #1732566 - 07/20/03 04:50 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Here's the key to stopping depression:
Get off the damn couch, go outside, hop on your bicycle, and ride around. Or go to the library and find a book to read.
Don't feel like doing any of this? Of course you don't.
Do it anyways. You allow yourself to build walls in your head that prevent you from trying anything new, from finding any meaning anything, to stop yourself from having enjoyment.. and no enjoyment will come. No meaning will exist.
If it feels empty, if it doesn't feel right, its because you told yourself it wouldn't. Go outside, and hop on a bicycle. Nothing is going to bring instant happiness anyways, so even if you still aren't happy, keep right on doing it.
Now, say it isn't this easy. Of course it isn't. You just told yourself it isn't. If you don't listen to yourself, then who will you listen to? Not me. So, try telling yourself it is that easy. Because it is. Motherfucka.
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Anonymous

Re: Depression.. [Re: PDU]
    #1732578 - 07/20/03 04:57 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

There has to be some reason why depression has increased so dramatically in the last 40 years or so. I think it's mostly a byproduct of our society. I mean, take a long objective look at our culture and society and how fucked up it is. Technology is steadily replacing any need for interaction with nature and other humans. People in general are very disconnected from nature, from other people and even from themselves as a result. Thus people feel very "alone" (in a world with 6 billion+ people!) and it leads to depression. I think it also has to do with consumerism as the focus of life. People work their shitty 9-5 jobs to buy and acquire more "stuff", be it fashionable clothes, videogames, "home entertainment systems", fast cars, faster computers, blah blah.. all this useless crap. Many people's lives don't even have any meaning, they're just following their pop culture influences mindlessly while collecting more material goods to help fill the void that their soul vacated at a very young age. Humanity as a whole has no focus, we would like to think we are striving for harmony and world peace but that is a lie. We are really just striving for faster and better technology, more mediocre and irresponsible government, more superficial culture, and most importantly more efficient ways to manufacture greater amounts of material goods to feed to the masses. People wonder why they're depressed. They don't get it. Happiness comes from within you, and nowhere else. When you have no true meaning in your life your mind is going to realize this and urge you to put you of of your misery, so with the click of a glock you end it.


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OfflinePDU
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Re: Depression.. [Re: ]
    #1732600 - 07/20/03 05:06 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Well said Max! People are fueled by this greed to fulfill material whim's, and when they cant, or they fulfill them all and still arnt happy...they realize they are empty. Its like Bam! Holy FUCK! what do i do now, im fucked, i own everything, and i can do anything i want, but im still a miserable stiff working and sleeping 80% of my life away. Im fucked. I try and get that message to so many people, that happiness comes from within' ....It absolutely does, ive seen it within myself, and i know others can...they just need to realize that a 100mg of powder isnt going to magically improve their live's. I wish there was a way to make them realize without psychedelics.


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Offlinest0nedphucker
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Re: Depression.. [Re: ]
    #1732616 - 07/20/03 05:12 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Depression is what you make of it, im sure there were a lot of unhappy people long long ago... But they were probably more concerned with feeding themselves, and simply to trying survive.

I think Max Headroom has got it in one


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The punishment which the wise suffer, who refuse to take part in government, is to live under the government of worse men.


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InvisibleDoctorJ
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Re: Depression.. [Re: PDU]
    #1732635 - 07/20/03 05:21 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

once you get to the top and you realize that money cars and other finite consumables cant quench your thirst, then you start to realize...

quenching the thirst isn't the problem. the problem is the thirst itself.


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peace, pot, and microdot!


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Depression.. [Re: DoctorJ]
    #1732676 - 07/20/03 05:36 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

The problem isn't the thirst itself, and the problem isn't our materialistic society. I myself fully recognize how materialistic we are, and "how fucked up everything is". I am not depressed. I am not thinking about killing myself. Do you know why?
I don't let that stuff bother me. Simple as that. Fully understanding the way things are, I decided to live my life the way I want to live it (and I have a natural advantage above 90% of the people because I do so).
"OH NO, THE WORLD'S FUCKED UP! MY LIFE SUCKS!"
Um, you can either let that roll over you and crush you, or you can help it change. What do you have to do? Live your life in spite of that. You don't have to give up, you don't have to blow up government buildings (to stop the EVIL), you don't even have to pick up a sign and march. Just life your life the way you want to live it. Do what makes you happy, what fills that gap. That's all. It'll be a source of inspiration for others.
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineJudas
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Re: Depression.. [Re: fireworks_god]
    #1732691 - 07/20/03 05:43 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

I second that fireworks, just setting an example by not letting all this Mcdonaldalization and western Psyche go to your brain! Live connected to others and yourself and forget about all that bullshit, Carpe Diem.


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"Better to be hated for who you are than loved for who you're not".
Phlogiston Verdigris


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: Depression.. [Re: PDU]
    #1732795 - 07/20/03 06:17 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

I think it's a natural part of human emotion....but society definately makes things worse. It's probably been around in some form or another since the dawn of mankind and emotion.

I think it comes from Our ever increasing ability to "see", however dimly, into the near future. As intelligence in humans increases, so does the ability to map out future possibilities. One of my doctors once told me that she saw a lot more "gifted" people with depression than she did average people.

Society makes things worse because in all honesty there is a lot to be worried about in our society. We are not really free. The media latches on to the biggest and baddest events and overplays their importance.

Maybe depression is passed genetically because intelligence is passed genetically. There could be genetic traits that allow people to map farther ahead than average, thus predisposing them to depression.

I'm not sure if it occurs in other species, but I don't think it does in very many. Dolphins and chimps, maybe  :smirk:
Most mammals seem to display some form of primitive emotion, but it seems very immediate-situation dependant. If a dog is sad, you can do something to cheer it up usually by taking away what is making it sad. That doesn't seem to be the case with depression.


I don't think this "disease" even needs a name attatched to it. It should not be treated as an illness to cure, but as a part of the human condition. We should help eachother feel happy, although I feel much has to change in society before we will see declining rates of depression.


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You're here because you know something.
What you know you can't explain,
But you feel it;
You've felt it your entire life.
That there's something wrong with the world.
You don't know what it is, but it's there....
Like a splinter in your mind...
Driving you mad.


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OfflinePDU
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Re: Depression.. [Re: trendal]
    #1732814 - 07/20/03 06:32 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

I think inorder to decrease depression rates we would need to stop indoctrinating "the new world order" in everyone through school, media, blah blah blah, and focusing on living meaningful, focuses, fulfilling lives...once again.

Anyways, i really enjoyed both of fireworks_god's posts. The first one, about hopping on a bicycle and just living life i truly believe, and when i do show a true zest for life, an absolute boundless energy that says "i can do anything i put my mind to" it is an inspiration to many. :laugh:


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Depression.. [Re: PDU]
    #1732925 - 07/20/03 07:19 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Its funny how that works, too..
Someone will be talking to me about playing guitar, and they'll say that they would never be able to learn how... it ain't too fucking hard! Actually, I'd like to suggest guitar playing or any other tool of sel-expression to anybody, depressed or not. We have more than just our mouth, there are other ways we can express ourselves...


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflinePDU
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Re: Depression.. [Re: fireworks_god]
    #1732975 - 07/20/03 07:49 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Ive always felt myself to be musically and artisticly incompetant, All my friends with bands all play drums, guitar and bass and i always went on and on about how i wish i could play an instrument, and how i should have done it when i was a kid... but ive been picking up bass guitar over the last couple months, my grampa gave me his acoustic guitar that i need to learn, and soon will be banjo...
You just gotta have confidence in yourself, and actually WANT to do it.

My main method of expression is through my clothing, im starting to tame it down now, but still every piece of clothing i own has been customized and personalized, i love being creative with my clothing.
Ive been talking myself into being more artistic and i have all these idea's...i just havent got around to serious persuing them..yet.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Depression.. [Re: PDU]
    #1732990 - 07/20/03 08:03 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Bass guitar is like the the instrument of choice, dude. It seems that bassists (the ones who choose to be bassists, not the failed guitarists), sort of have the trippin' mentality we do. They have SOUL. I don't know why that is, really, but who knows?
Peace.
(I play bass, by the way, and I know now that Shroomism does. listened to his band today, actually)


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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InvisibleEgo Death
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Re: Depression.. [Re: fireworks_god]
    #1733112 - 07/20/03 09:08 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Consider this...
A classic way of hypnosis is to concentrate on a point of light i.e candle.
A TV is a concentrated point of light that one focus fully on allowing millions of subliminal messages to enter the brain everyday.
Were being brain washed!

Look at cheesy soaps like hollyoaks theres people cutting their arms (kids thinking so thats how I scream out for help, instead of asking!) and problem after problem.

If you not gaining a new trophy, you experiencing the latest problem. Ohhh the depression.

If the millions that watch this, allow it to program their thoughts everyday I am not suprised we have a depressed world. People are usually depressed due to some mentally created problem, I know this because try and solve their problem and a new one appears, how convenient.

Good Stuff PDU


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