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General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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Re: an observation.. [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #4261613 -

As to drug use, like everything else, it depends. Cocaine and heroin, for example, require lots of immorality from fearful oppression by drug lords to the mass murders that follow every step of the growth, manufacture and transport to the user. The selfishness and further crime by the user creates further suffering in the world.

The immorality and oppression you speak of springs forth from oppressive and draconian laws preventing people from doing with their bodies as they choose.

Opium, for example, was used with little social repercussion for hundreds of years before it was made illegal, thus giving rise to the drug cartels that commit the immorality you attribute to the user.

Credit where credit is due...


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Re: an observation.. [Re: Diploid]
    #4261715 -

Moral has not been achieved by many. Its a path to be walked. Many claim to be moral. The Catholic Faith claims moral superiority yet priests of the faith are molesting children behind closed doors. Everyone has a long, long way to come. God is not what he seems.

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Re: an observation.. [Re: psyillyazul]
    #4261747 -

The Catholic Faith claims moral superiority yet priests of the faith are molesting children behind closed doors

Yes, but my point is that they know this is immoral and do it anyway.

All those priests would protect their own nephews from being molested by others even while they themselves molested those under their care.

This is immorality defined.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Re: an observation.. [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4261789 -

"So why does morality exist when it is convenient to protect the feelings of shroomers, and stops existing when it limits their habits?"

I think not. I may be a twisted freak, but I hold to my morals to the death. Everyone may not agree with my morals, but I do not compromise them. I used to when I was younger, but it always led to despair. Being moral when it makes you look good is not being moral. When I do fall down...unintentionally...I get back up. As far as hurting peoples feelings...too bad. Being uncompromising can be a good thing when it concerns your innate sense of right.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: an observation.. [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4261938 -

What do you think keeps the priests from choosing morality though?? All I am saying is that it is not their choice. Being a Catholic priest you are subject to a lifestyle that is destructive. If the priest is ignoring his morality by willingly comminting sin, I would assume that there are hidden forces at work. Forces that turn people against their nature. His free will is now that of Satan, or somebody of that calibur. What kind of force might this be?? A fucking powerful one. I see it almost encircling western culture, and readying for the harvest.

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Re: an observation.. [Re: psyillyazul]
    #4261970 -

"If the priest is ignoring his morality by willingly committing sin, I would assume that there are hidden forces at work. Forces that turn people against their nature. His free will is now that of Satan, or somebody of that calibur."

It is simple human weakness...no power being exerted...no dark force at work. People are quite capable of bad behavior with little encouragement. Satan does not exist...he is a trickster character from ancient myth...why not blame it on Loki instead?


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: an observation.. [Re: psyillyazul]
    #4262020 -

Satan is the human spirit as much as GOD, Elohim, Yahweh is. The difference and the forces I talk about are the basic forces of good and evil. Satan has the potential to exist in everyone. Good also does. How does one receive either good or evil judgment?? How does one become either good or evil?? Who was god in the Garden of Eden?? is a better question.

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Re: an observation.. [Re: psyillyazul]
    #4262067 -

I prefer seeing that people take responsibility for their actions instead of being the victims of some supernatural forces that were beyond their control. All this Bible stuff is myth. Many Native American tribes believed that mankind just crawled out of a hollow log one day...I would just as soon believe that. Myths are important for what they symbolize...they have no objective reality. You never addressed my question as to why Loki could not be responsible.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: an observation.. [Re: psyillyazul]
    #4262111 -

What do you think keeps the priests from choosing morality though??

psyillyazul, an FYI:

I think you meant this reply for me and not for Hue. When you click "Reply", the post on which you click it becomes listed as the person to which you are replying.

Notice that the title of this post is something like:

"Re: an observation..  [Re: psyillyazul]"

Your handle is listed after the "Re:" becuase I clcked the "Reply" on your post. This is how the conversation proceeds with sub-threads of people replying to specific posts even though all the posts are listed chronologically.

I noticed you were confused about this in another thread where the replies you thought were for you didn't make sense (because they were meant for someone else).

Just thought someone should let you know this...  :mushroom2:


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Re: an observation.. [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4262136 -

People's actions are governed by basic physical laws of the Universe, right?? Loki is nowhere to be found in this. Free will is an illusion. Not supernatural but natural. Your will is determined by your way. In this sense your way is who you are, not who you say or think you are. To choose means to see. Can't see if eyes are closed. Bible not myth. You just can't understand the language. You're right about symbolism, but symbols with no objective reality?? What kind of shitty symbols are those?? The ones you can't understand. Everything in the bible has objective reality, you are proving your ignorance. Re-read.

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Re: an observation.. [Re: psyillyazul]
    #4262168 -

"Everything in the bible has objective reality"
Really? Prove it.

"Loki is nowhere to be found in this"
And Satan is? Come on, don't speak of my ignorance. I am very well informed as to what myth is and isn't. Loki is an earlier (much older than Satan) form of trickster...like Satan...he just belonged to a different pantheon. No religion has validity over another. I don't buy in to the Christian brainwashing. All symbols have meaning. Without meaning it is not a symbol. Oh, yeah, learn the difference between objective and subjective then reconsider the statement about symbols having no OBJECTIVE reality.

Edited by Huehuecoyotl (06/05/05 11:28 PM)

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Re: an observation.. [Re: Diploid]
    #4262185 -

super duper.  thank you kindly for the helping hand.  not really worried who responds where.  Chronology??  Chaos.  Structure??  Random.  As long as you got the message, it's all on one screen right??  Kidding.  I kind of like confusion though.  :confused:

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Re: an observation.. [Re: Diploid]
    #4262653 -

Diploid said:
So huns were as moral as we are

Then why did they protect their own from the acts they infliceted on others?


it is instinctive to protect those you get attached to, and it was considered moral

Edited by OldWoodSpecter (06/06/05 05:08 AM)

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Re: an observation.. [Re: psyillyazul]
    #4262656 -

I still don't se what kind of difference does it make if morality is instinctive or learned.

either way, it is limited to human biology OR social learning, and is not some divine truth comming from heavens.


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine

Edited by OldWoodSpecter (06/06/05 05:15 AM)

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Re: an observation.. [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4262662 -

A question to everyone, where are all of you anti-dualists?
No good, no evil, yet silence in discussions about rape, slavery, murder etc.


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine

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Re: an observation.. [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4264217 -

hey interesting discussion..

I think it has to do with where one obtains one's "morals" I think its different for everybody.

One person could be raised in a situation that puts a system of morals in place that frowns upon various sexual acts or consumption of various substances, but another person could be brought up under circumstances that yeilds a system of morals that frowns down upon inhibiting one's self if they are not doing harm to others.

I would say it comes down to one's personal ideas about morality. Your green might be my red, if that makes sense.

Differences among values and morals in people is great in my opinion. How would we even be able to spotlight "moral values" if everybody's were exactly the same?

In a way the murderer and the hater are creating your moral values.


--------------------
Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE

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Re: an observation.. [Re: Strumpling]
    #4267466 -

Closer... Teaching is temporary once you awaken to the Absolute. It's your choice to deny Truth, when you do you Sin. Or chose darkness. Try again.

'Differences among values and morals in people is great in my opinion. How would we even be able to spotlight "moral values" if every body's were exactly the same?

In a way the murderer and the hater are creating your moral values.'

Moral values are not created, they are the laws of the Universe. Cause and effect are very important. The murderer and hater are a consequence. Dig the ecosystem with it's great balance, Moral?? The problem is everyone can be persuaded one way or the other if they have their eyes closed. And trust me, these suits are getting clever at reining subjects in to darkness, they've been doing it since the beginning of Time. Or you could say it just started. Light will prevail, it always does. Just takes awile. Cycles. 2012.

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Re: an observation.. [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4267519 -

There's definitely some christian brainwashing going on. But, in saying this you are dismissing your objectivity. Myth is a language of symbols, if you don't know what they mean?? Sorry. Loki older than Satan?? Silly. Same 'Force' different names. Time?? Silly. Objective reality in the Bible?? Here you are...

Exodus 16
"...and in the morning the dew lay round about the host. ...behold, upon the face of the wilderness there lay a small round thing, as small as the hoar frost on the ground. And Moses said unto them, This is the bread which the Lord hath given you to eat. ...and they gathered it every morning, every man according to his eating: and when the sun waxed hot, it melted. ...tomorrow is the rest of the holy sabbath unto the Lord. ...and it was like coriander seed, white... ...take a pot... ...and lay it up before the Lord, to be kept for your generations."

I've got my O'mer of Manna. Where's yours??

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Re: an observation.. [Re: psyillyazul]
    #4267584 -

psyillyazul said:
Closer... Teaching is temporary once you awaken to the Absolute. It's your choice to deny Truth, when you do you Sin. Or chose darkness. Try again.

'Differences among values and morals in people is great in my opinion. How would we even be able to spotlight "moral values" if every body's were exactly the same?

In a way the murderer and the hater are creating your moral values.'

Moral values are not created, they are the laws of the Universe. Cause and effect are very important. The murderer and hater are a consequence. Dig the ecosystem with it's great balance, Moral?? The problem is everyone can be persuaded one way or the other if they have their eyes closed. And trust me, these suits are getting clever at reining subjects in to darkness, they've been doing it since the beginning of Time. Or you could say it just started. Light will prevail, it always does. Just takes awile. Cycles. 2012.


What do you mean laws of the universe? Where do they apply?
gravity is a law of the universe because it affects particles.
But how can a moral law affect anything but humans?
Do stars have morals? They just burn gass, that's all they do


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine

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Re: an observation.. [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4283256 -

I mean balance! Actually a star is a beautifully amazing 'Balance' of explosive energy and gravity. I would call this moral I guess. Now if the star, say our sun, suddenly swelled to swallow the solar system. Out of balance. Amoral/chaos/dark. Start over.

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