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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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an observation..
    #4256459 - 06/04/05 05:47 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

...about people of shroomery (sounds like a land doesn't it?)

after many discussions about morality, ethics etc etc, It seems to me
that many clearly reject the concept of morality and ethics when it comes to things like drugs and sexual behaviour,
yet when it comes to something that touches some hidden circuits in their brains like incest, rape and murder, morality is back and kicking

So why does morality exist when it is convenient to protect the feelings of shroomers, and stops existing when it limits their habits?

When it comes to murder and incest, suddenly morality is hirewired into our DNA or something like that, and when it comes to orgies and something like that, morality is something that is invented by people

Why is that?


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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InvisibleSwami
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Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: an observation.. [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4256471 - 06/04/05 05:50 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

It is simple:

Morality is what I do.

Immorality is what you do.

This egocentric stance is the source of ALL conflict.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: an observation.. [Re: Swami]
    #4256482 - 06/04/05 05:54 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

it seems so, but I want to hear an explanation from those who have this selective concept of morality


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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InvisibleSwami
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Registered: 01/19/00
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Re: an observation.. [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4256498 - 06/04/05 05:59 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

:lipsrsealed:


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
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Re: an observation.. [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4256532 - 06/04/05 06:12 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Not to derail your thread, but the same principle applies. I play a lot of online poker.

When you win, it is "skill".

When your opponent wins, it is "luck".

Or so it would seem by the endless whining.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: an observation.. [Re: Swami]
    #4256547 - 06/04/05 06:18 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

feel free to add anything you want , there is still unlimited room for everyone to post


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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OfflineBleaK
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Re: an observation.. [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4256577 - 06/04/05 06:31 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

drugs and sex only hurt those who willfully participate in them. murder and rape are about overthrowing the will of others.


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"You cannot trust in law, unless you can trust in people. If you can trust in people, you don't need law." -J. Mumma


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Re: an observation.. [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4256579 - 06/04/05 06:32 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Many people have blind spots. Places where we can't see that our words or actions are inconsistant with our professed beliefs. Often it seems these areas are charged emotionally, something we aren't yet able to face about ourselves or something that happened to us that we are afraid to face. There may be other reasons also, I just can't think of any right this minute. :mushroom2:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: an observation.. [Re: BleaK]
    #4256648 - 06/04/05 07:04 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

BleaK said:
drugs and sex only hurt those who willfully participate in them. murder and rape are about overthrowing the will of others.




Both are part of popular morality. From an outside-human perspective there is no difference between taking a shower and killing someone.


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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Invisibleniteowl
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Re: an observation.. [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4256770 - 06/04/05 07:44 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

OldWoodSpecter said:
...about people of shroomery (sounds like a land doesn't it?)

after many discussions about morality, ethics etc etc, It seems to me
that many clearly reject the concept of morality and ethics when it comes to things like drugs and sexual behaviour...




The people that deems these types of activity(drugs and sex) "bad" are trying to control your freedom to use your body the way you see fit. While their is no "real" danger to society as a whole for engaging in these activities. There is a social "stigma" placed on people who engage in drug use and overt sexuality. They are looked down on because their society deems it unacceptable, but they aren't a real threat to the social structure.


Quote:

yet when it comes to something that touches some hidden circuits in their brains like incest, rape and murder, morality is back and kicking

So why does morality exist when it is convenient to protect the feelings of shroomers, and stops existing when it limits their habits?




A person who imposes his will over another person by rape, murder and incest is a threat to society. These people have no problem forcing their will upon other people.

People who use drugs and engage in "unacceptable sex acts" aren't really harming the social structure as these practices usually take place "behind closed doors" between willing participants.

Rape, murder and incest are forced upon someone.


--------------------
Live for the moment you are in now
Don't be bogged down by your past
Don't be afraid of what lies in your future


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: an observation.. [Re: niteowl]
    #4256865 - 06/04/05 08:11 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

This does not really defend that which I have talked about here.

I'm saying that when it comes to sex there IS NO morality in general, yet when the topic changes to killing there IS morality suddenly

What you are saying would be a defense only if those people said: strange sex is perfectly moral while killing is immoral

but that is not the case, they just say: morality is subjective and is invented by people

and then later on, when topic changes to killing, suddely the whole shroomery is yelling how morality is not that subjective



so then, is it subjective or is it not subjective?


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


Edited by OldWoodSpecter (06/04/05 08:13 PM)


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: an observation.. [Re: niteowl]
    #4256875 - 06/04/05 08:16 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

and besides, a lot of traditional morality has nothing to do with harming or not harming. It is simply a way you SHOULD behave just for the sake of it.

Forcing people is just another action a man does, like eating, or having sex. Morality choses some of these actions and calls them immoral

The division between that which harms and that which not is still an echo of morality system.

Moving fingers to pull a triger, or moving fingers to push a button on a remote are just two kinds of movin fingers


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Re: an observation.. [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4257137 - 06/04/05 09:20 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

ALL morality is subjective, based ones individual parameters of right and wrong that are essentially arbitrary. All moral systems have some kind of justifying logic, but that too is arbitrary. NOTHING , not even rape , murder or incest, is universally condemned, and NOTHING is universally condoned. Morality is oppinion.

In my own morality, things like using drugs are not immoral, because according to my own arbitrary moral rules, drug use is fine as it does not intrude on the rights of other human beings, whereas rape or murder is immoral as it does intrude on those rights. But again, my idea that immoral acts are those that impose on another persons rights in a malevolent way, is arbitrary.

Do as thou wilt shall be the whole of the law.


--------------------


Everything I post is fiction. This poster is no longer active.


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Invisibleniteowl
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Re: an observation.. [Re: Moonshoe]
    #4257515 - 06/04/05 11:25 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Moonshoe said:
ALL morality is subjective, based ones individual parameters of right and wrong that are essentially arbitrary. All moral systems have some kind of justifying logic, but that too is arbitrary. NOTHING , not even rape , murder or incest, is universally condemned, and NOTHING is universally condoned. Morality is oppinion.





Well said.  :thumbup:

All morality is set by the society. Each different society will have a different set of morals.


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Offlinecrunchytoast
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Re: an observation.. [Re: niteowl]
    #4258249 - 06/05/05 02:27 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

my opinion is that one person's drug use can be wrong to others, not just themself.
addiction takes a person's gifts away from the community (of which they are a part), and give them to the drug

i think you are right to imply the distinction is arbitrary oldwoodspecter.


--------------------
"consensus on the nature of equilibrium is usually established by periodic conflict." -henry kissinger


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: an observation.. [Re: Moonshoe]
    #4258822 - 06/05/05 06:53 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

ALL morality is subjective, based ones individual parameters of right and wrong that are essentially arbitrary.

There is a branch of ethics called Moral Absolutism which holds that some actions are always and universally immoral. The summary is that harming or doing to others that which they don't want done is necessarily always and everywhere immoral.

Can you give me an example of, say, moral slavery or rape?


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: an observation.. [Re: Diploid]
    #4258835 - 06/05/05 07:14 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
Can you give me an example of, say, moral slavery or rape?



That happens sadly everytime, when the purpose justifies the means.
(Illogical tendency for behavior in human minds)


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Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
........................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: an observation.. [Re: Diploid]
    #4258914 - 06/05/05 09:09 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Slavery was moral in the antic days, and rape was moral to pilagers such as Huns

and even if every man on earth has some genetic urge for morality, that doesn't mean he SHOULD folow it, just as you can refuse to take a piss until you get to the toilet, you can refuse to be moral


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: an observation.. [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4258966 - 06/05/05 09:32 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Slavery was moral in the antic days, and rape was moral to pilagers such as Huns

A moral action is one sanctioned by one's conscience.

Slavers and Huns protected those they cared about from slavery and rape. They committed the acts not because they thought nothing wrong with those acts, but because they didn't care there was something wrong with those acts. Their conscience told them it was wrong, otherwise they would not have protected their own from those same acts.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


Edited by Diploid (06/05/05 09:46 AM)


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: an observation.. [Re: Diploid]
    #4259354 - 06/05/05 11:58 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
Slavery was moral in the antic days, and rape was moral to pilagers such as Huns

A moral action is one sanctioned by one's conscience.

Slavers and Huns protected those they cared about from slavery and rape. They committed the acts not because they thought nothing wrong with those acts, but because they didn't care there was something wrong with those acts. Their conscience told them it was wrong, otherwise they would not have protected their own from those same acts.




Well morality is not always equal for everyone. For example, an executioner in a highly moral society that works on the switch for the elctric chair is supported by moral majority, and he feels what he is doing is moral, yet he would protect his child from someone who tried to kill it.

Same way, for a Hun it was moral to rape the wimen of "enemies", but it was not moral to rape their own. Double standards are a part of moral system and have always been.

Morality is what a group of people feel it is ok. It does not require you to spend nights thinking what is good and what is bad, morality just happens as a system that protects ones way of behaviour and way of life.

So huns were as moral as we are, because just like us, they were protecting their way of life by figuring out unwritten rules that protect it.


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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General Interest >> Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology

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