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InvisibleSilversoul
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Tradition
    #4192425 - 05/18/05 08:29 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

What's the point? Why do something just because it's always been done that way? I understand the appeal of ritual, but why not just start your own rituals? Do what works for you, not what tradition prescribes. It's called progress. Try it out some time.


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Offlinefaslimy
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Re: Tradition [Re: Silversoul]
    #4192435 - 05/18/05 08:32 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Did you know we have a part of our brain scientists call the reptillian brain. It is the source of our ritualistic behaviour patterns.


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Offlinestzacrack
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Re: Tradition [Re: faslimy]
    #4192538 - 05/18/05 09:00 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Paradigm, you call it a waste of time, and the loss of progress.  I call it pride, because I respect what my ancestors and the people of my heritage did before me, becuase in my opinion, they are a part of who I am, and what I am today.  If someone has no respect for that, then what is there to respect? To me, what my ancestors did is something for me to respect, and something for me to learn from, and in my opinion learning is progression.

Later :mushroom2:


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“Oh, what a love it was, utterly free, unique, like nothing else on earth! Their thoughts were like other people's songs.

They loved each other, not driven by necessity, by the "blaze of passion" often falsely ascribed to love. They loved each other because everything around them willed it, the trees and the clouds and the sky over their heads and the earth under their feet. Perhaps their surrounding world, the strangers they met in the street, the wide expanses they saw on their walks, the rooms in which they lived or met, took more delight in their love than they themselves did.”


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InvisibleJellric
altered statesman

Registered: 11/08/98
Posts: 2,261
Loc: non-local
Re: Tradition [Re: stzacrack]
    #4192554 - 05/18/05 09:04 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

My ancestors in this part of the country had a tradition of hanging black people from trees without a trial.

Blindly following tradition just because "Daddy told me to do it this way." is as ignorant as blindly ignoring tradition. Take what works for you and use it- discard the rest. Don't accord ancestors any special respect just because they went before us. Ancestors were people just like you and me- they had both strengths and weaknesses. Follow their good points if they work for you, and avoid their mistakes.


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I AM what Willis was talkin' bout.


Edited by Jellric (05/18/05 09:13 PM)


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OfflineAlan Stone
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Re: Tradition [Re: Silversoul]
    #4192555 - 05/18/05 09:04 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Why do something because it hasn't been thought of/done before? What's your point?

Why is the notion that one is unique so important? Is it really true?


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It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.

- Aristotle


Edited by Alan Stone (05/18/05 09:05 PM)


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Tradition [Re: Jellric]
    #4192598 - 05/18/05 09:16 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Jellric said:
My ancestors in this part of the country had a tradition of hanging black people from trees without a trial.



Same here. I come from a long line of Southern plantation owners. Should I honor that tradition by enslaving a race of people?


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Tradition [Re: Alan Stone]
    #4192602 - 05/18/05 09:17 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Alan Stone said:
Why do something because it hasn't been thought of/done before? What's your point?

Why is the notion that one is unique so important? Is it really true?



Who said anything about uniqueness? I'm saying do what works for you, and discard the rest. Keep traditions only if they serve a purpose, and only if that purpose can't be served better by something else.


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Offlinestzacrack
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Re: Tradition [Re: Silversoul]
    #4192684 - 05/18/05 09:36 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

I would think people would have enough common sense not to hang black people because your ancestors were slave owners. 

I guess I was thinking of taking the positive things that your ancestors have done, and to be proud of that.  Not something shameful or morally wrong such as hanging someone because of their skin color. 

"Keep traditions only if they serve a purpose, and only if that purpose can't be served better by something else."
^I agree with this.  Why would anyone want to follow traditions of their ancestors if the traditions don't have any purpose?

Later :mushroom2:


--------------------
“Oh, what a love it was, utterly free, unique, like nothing else on earth! Their thoughts were like other people's songs.

They loved each other, not driven by necessity, by the "blaze of passion" often falsely ascribed to love. They loved each other because everything around them willed it, the trees and the clouds and the sky over their heads and the earth under their feet. Perhaps their surrounding world, the strangers they met in the street, the wide expanses they saw on their walks, the rooms in which they lived or met, took more delight in their love than they themselves did.”


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Tradition [Re: stzacrack]
    #4193141 - 05/19/05 12:02 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

stzacrack said:
"Keep traditions only if they serve a purpose, and only if that purpose can't be served better by something else."
^I agree with this. Why would anyone want to follow traditions of their ancestors if the traditions don't have any purpose?



I don't know, but they do.


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Re: Tradition [Re: Silversoul]
    #4193160 - 05/19/05 12:07 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Humans still live in fear of change. It takes alot of time. :mushroom2:


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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Invisiblevampirism
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Re: Tradition [Re: Icelander]
    #4193166 - 05/19/05 12:08 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

they obviously have purpose, just not to those who don't do it.


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OfflineAdviapacis
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Re: Tradition [Re: Silversoul]
    #4193424 - 05/19/05 01:06 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Some traditions are good, some traditions are bad, some are just a matter of taste.


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Respect my authority!


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InvisibleeMotionALLmotion
DivineeMotive....

Registered: 02/28/05
Posts: 759
Loc: The Symphony of Lights......
Re: Tradition [Re: Silversoul]
    #4193457 - 05/19/05 01:11 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Paradigm said:
What's the point?  Why do something just because it's always been done that way?  I understand the appeal of ritual, but why not just start your own rituals?  Do what works for you, not what tradition prescribes.  It's called progress.  Try it out some time.




Were there any specific traditions you were thinking/speaking of....?   


:sun:


--------------------
Uni-VersALL      MasterPeace
eMotive  :sun: Divinity NowThere Infinity :sun:  eMelody


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Tradition [Re: eMotionALLmotion]
    #4193584 - 05/19/05 01:40 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

eMotionALLmotion said:
Quote:

Paradigm said:
What's the point? Why do something just because it's always been done that way? I understand the appeal of ritual, but why not just start your own rituals? Do what works for you, not what tradition prescribes. It's called progress. Try it out some time.




Were there any specific traditions you were thinking/speaking of....?



Well, Frog's thread about diamonds is really what inspired this thread. I think it's retarded to do something just because it's traditional. Tradition as an end in itself is meaningless.

Let's look at the issue of gay marriage, for instance. There's a huge uproar about two men getting married, just because marriage has traditionally been limited to just men and women. Unequal treatment under the law is being upheld simply because it's traditional to do so. Not only that, but there is actually a movement to legislate that tradition into the Constitution


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OfflineFrog
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Re: Tradition [Re: Silversoul]
    #4193605 - 05/19/05 01:47 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

But isn't tradition just, plain and simple, nice???

Tradition gives us something to tie into. It gives meaning to life. Why should we give up tradition simply because there's no real value?

Why should we live life so clinically? "Only if {whatever} can be proven by Swami, may you engage in your activities."

So something should have actual clinical value before being entertained as a tradition? Should have some meaning besides the simple human relations aspect behind it?

This is sort of bothering me. I can understand that we don't want to continue to permit female genital mutilation simply because it has been tradition in that culture, but there are traditions that are benign that draw us closer to one another that shouldn't be extricated.


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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OfflineAdviapacis
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Re: Tradition [Re: Silversoul]
    #4193606 - 05/19/05 01:47 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Traditions would not continue unless some people found meaning in them. For many, it can be as simple as a connection with their ancestors or carrying on things that they enjoyed from their childhood.


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Respect my authority!


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Tradition [Re: Frog]
    #4193652 - 05/19/05 02:03 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Frog said:
But isn't tradition just, plain and simple, nice???

Tradition gives us something to tie into. It gives meaning to life. Why should we give up tradition simply because there's no real value?



Tradition doesn't give meaning to life. You do. Sure, traditions can be nice. I enjoy decorating a Christmas tree as much as the next person. But tradition should not be a reason unto itself. It was once traditional for black people to always address a white man as "sir" and not look him directly in the eye. But this tradition has been abandoned because it is racist.

Quote:

Why should we live life so clinically? "Only if {whatever} can be proven by Swami, may you engage in your activities."

So something should have actual clinical value before being entertained as a tradition? Should have some meaning besides the simple human relations aspect behind it?



If it enriches your life, that is a practical purpose. But this should be weighed against other pragmatic as well as moral factors.

Quote:

This is sort of bothering me. I can understand that we don't want to continue to permit female genital mutilation simply because it has been tradition in that culture, but there are traditions that are benign that draw us closer to one another that shouldn't be extricated.



I see there being four main kinds of traditions: helpful, harmful, benign, and useless. We no longer do a rain dance to ensure a productive harvest because we understand weather much better now. This tradition may seem benign, but it serves no purpose in this day and age, and has been abandoned accordingly.


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InvisibleeMotionALLmotion
DivineeMotive....

Registered: 02/28/05
Posts: 759
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Re: Tradition [Re: Silversoul]
    #4193681 - 05/19/05 02:11 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Paradigm said:
Well, Frog's thread about diamonds is really what inspired this thread.  I think it's retarded to do something just because it's traditional.  Tradition as an end in itself is meaningless.
.
Let's look at the issue of gay marriage, for instance.  There's a huge uproar about two men getting married, just because marriage has traditionally been limited to just men and women.  Unequal treatment under the law is being upheld simply because it's traditional to do so.  Not only that, but there is actually a movement to legislate that tradition into the Constitution 



.
Well, the ring thing is important to some people, for some it is not a "thing"....    I could think of more creative ways to devote my life to someone as far as a "marraige" goes, besides a diamond....  I think the huge expensive marraige in a church with all of the dresses and everything so prin and proper is more of a "wasted" tradition(in my eyes)....    Some may find that to be what they want tho~....    :shrug:    I really liked the one att he AZ gathering, there is no way being in a church could have been more beautiful than where we were....    :sun:
.
.
.
As for the taxes and laws about marraige, I think they suck....    The sanction of marraige should not make a difference in the eyes of taxes, nor the political laws....  "Everybody is equal"....    Doesn't matter who has "coupled up", they are still individual people.... 
1 + 1 = 1 + 1


:sun:


--------------------
Uni-VersALL      MasterPeace
eMotive  :sun: Divinity NowThere Infinity :sun:  eMelody


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OfflineFrog
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Re: Tradition [Re: Silversoul]
    #4193731 - 05/19/05 02:25 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Paradigm said:
Tradition doesn't give meaning to life. You do. Sure, traditions can be nice. I enjoy decorating a Christmas tree as much as the next person. But tradition should not be a reason unto itself. It was once traditional for black people to always address a white man as "sir" and not look him directly in the eye. But this tradition has been abandoned because it is racist.




That is not a tradition. I don't know what it's called. I think it's called "discrimination." But that is not an example of traditiion, I don't think.

Quote:

If it enriches your life, that is a practical purpose. But this should be weighed against other pragmatic as well as moral factors.




I would agree with this.


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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InvisibleSwami
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Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
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Re: Tradition [Re: Silversoul]
    #4193750 - 05/19/05 02:31 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

I put up a polyester Christmas tree with electric lights very year, the same as my ancestors from hundreds of years ago did.


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The proof is in the pudding.


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