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Invisibleredgreenvines
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set setting (and dose)
    #3947730 - 03/21/05 08:31 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Some really wise guy, early on in the "psychedellic revolution", indicated that what makes a trip is set and setting - meaning particularly Mindset and Setting. I have realized this to be true, and equally related to dosage of "whatever entheogen" is used.

The Mindset is very interesting, and seems to boil down to attitude, recent activities, and latent attitudes pertaining to those activities, recent experiences (any reverberating carryovers), and how you feel about yourself (I want to call this "karma" at the outset, since realistically this is how I see karma operating, i.e. what we feel we deserve).

The Setting is also extremely interesting, as it involves anything that has accrued or that arises in the environment or the surrounds of where the experience is taking place. One normally wants very little artificiality in considering Setting. What is in the setting often inspires potential directions of action and thought in the experience.

Finally dosage of entheogen is really an area that people are in denial about, in particular the issue of one's own limits. Say for LSD 50 mics may be quite satisfactory for someone and 200 adequate for the next to get into a "significant psychedellic space".

The issue about "significant psychedellic space" is very personal, and is related much to a person's path.

Entheogen can be good medicine, but is not always necessary to get into vibrant experiences of personal set and setting in a significant way. Often, for the true seeker, the effective dose is zero, and set and setting are a kind of unity.


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Offlinegnrm23
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Re: set setting (and dose) [Re: redgreenvines]
    #3947952 - 03/21/05 10:11 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

yeah, doctor tim was a bit of a "wise guy"...


--------------------
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Offlineegghead1
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Re: set setting (and dose) [Re: redgreenvines]
    #3947962 - 03/21/05 10:15 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Shamans have been using this guideline for hundreds, perhaps thousands of years. The wise guy just introduced it to the west. :smile:


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All you need is Love! Really thats it! Infinite Unconditional Love! Just develop that and all else will fall into place perfectly!


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Invisibledorkus
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Re: set setting (and dose) [Re: redgreenvines]
    #3947964 - 03/21/05 10:15 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Interesting post. Too bad my mind is currently unavailable for exploration.

Could you elaborate a little on the term "significant psychedelic space"? How is it personal? Does it bring out underlying pre-programmed believes/views or will sufficient mindfulness allow these blockages to be trespassed and make direct/transparent view of "space" possible?

If these personal, artificial "limitations" are overcome, then wouldn't the psychedelic space one enters be an objective space?

I am also interested in what you said about how it is related to a person's path.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: set setting (and dose) [Re: gnrm23]
    #3947967 - 03/21/05 10:16 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

after relieving the suffering of millions, he fell into a multimedia set and setting that was incomprehensibly pedestrian. sounds all too familiar - the zeitgeist.


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Offlineegghead1
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Re: set setting (and dose) [Re: redgreenvines]
    #3947980 - 03/21/05 10:21 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

The principle of set and setting is common to most meditative practices and trance related practices as well as ethnogenic rituals too.


--------------------
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Invisibleredgreenvines
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some comments bouncing off your queries [Re: dorkus]
    #3948025 - 03/21/05 10:37 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

dr_mandelbrot said:...Could you elaborate a little on the term "significant psychedelic space"? How is it personal? Does it bring out underlying pre-programmed believes/views or will sufficient mindfulness allow these blockages to be trespassed and make direct/transparent view of "space" possible?

If these personal, artificial "limitations" are overcome, then wouldn't the psychedelic space one enters be an objective space?

I am also interested in what you said about how it is related to a person's path.




significant psychedelic space
anyone's personal psychedellic space includes all of the mental contents. the space is pretty much infinite in potential of appearances/experiences arranged around and of the building blocks or mental contents including:
1. memories
2. sensations
3. combinations
4. computations and transformations

something external will seem numinous or "significant", if it has one or more emergent resonances. (if it excites existing engrams, or activates mental content)

objective space
personal space and objective space are really one thing, and may be a different one thing for each person, especially WRT what is numinous and what is not going to activate mental content.

path
the movements one makes can seem scattered in this dimension, but WRT one's personal unfolding dimension, it is one path. the continuous creation of the universe is the one thing we follow each in our own way.


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Invisibledorkus
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Re: some comments bouncing off your queries [Re: redgreenvines]
    #3953141 - 03/22/05 01:21 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Thank you.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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set and setting, the path, etc. [Re: dorkus]
    #3953213 - 03/22/05 01:40 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

kinda like what you are bringing to the table
and the table itself.



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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: set and setting, the path, etc. [Re: redgreenvines]
    #3955501 - 03/22/05 09:09 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

"Say for LSD 50 mics may be quite satisfactory for someone and 200 adequate for the next to get into a "significant psychedellic space"."

You serious? I always thought 500 mics to be the minimum to get into a "significant psychedellic space". 800 is better, but over that you can't really tell the difference anymore no matter how much. My experience is limited to around 1600 mics though so I can't tell for sure.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: set and setting, the path, etc. [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3955622 - 03/22/05 09:33 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

the outer limits can be significant, but personal significance is less about extremes, & more about resonance, and integration. when you can't tell the difference anymore, it is clearly not significant to you, and might be a waste of medicine.


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: set and setting, the path, etc. [Re: redgreenvines]
    #3955675 - 03/22/05 09:45 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

"it is clearly not significant to you, and might be a waste of medicine."
It is. I would never recommend more than 200 for a newbie.

"the outer limits can be significant, but personal significance is less about extremes"

Your statement about extremes is incorrect. Personal significance increases with the so called "extremes". My experience is extensive, and I have found that true loss of self does not occur until the higher levels are reached, BUT set and setting MUST be perfect. For me it is not as much an issue anymore, but for those less experienced it is a real issue. I once performed the Heimlich maneuver on a person choking while peaking out on about 600 mics so I don't think I could even have a bad trip anymore. Even the unpleasant circumstances can cause one to transcend the self and provide valuable personal instruction. I don't recommend that to those just starting out though. Better to take it easy and grow with it.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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Invisiblecubed
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Re: set and setting, the path, etc. [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3958252 - 03/23/05 10:07 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

There is no such thing as a bad trip - 'bad trip' is just some peoples way of saying they cannot cope with the revelations they are facing.

Getting scared or upset is not bad.

Personally: pitch black with extremes of shrooms = the best and deepest experience for achieving the maximum psychedellic space.

LSD - any quantity in pretty much any setting is an awesome experience.

Mindset is a different matter - if one does not feel like doing it, best one does not.

However as others have said - if the tripper is a newbie, best start on low doses :wink: (in all seriousness)


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: set and setting, the path, etc. [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3958306 - 03/23/05 10:28 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

hue;
the position you have with extremes is something personal for you; I am pointing to the middle way, and to the essential nature of set -setting - and how it works with an optional dose of entheogen.

when you say
Quote:

BUT set and setting MUST be perfect. For me it is not as much an issue anymore, but for those less experienced it is a real issue.


I am not sure if you agree with the inseparability of set setting and dose or are in denial of it.

you have heimliched the suffering and crossed all the bridges, does it begin to make sense?


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: set and setting, the path, etc. [Re: redgreenvines]
    #3960044 - 03/23/05 04:33 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

"hue;
the position you have with extremes is something personal for you;"

In other words your limited experience leaves you without any knowledge of what I say. I guess you could not play Guru if you said "I don't know". Set and setting are different for everyone depending on their experience.

"you have heimliched the suffering and crossed all the bridges"

So, if you saw a person choking on their food you would not help them. Look the fact is that drugs only point a possible direction and they are not inherantly spiritual. To make my point my wife has had over 50 trips in her life, in my presence, and the least she ever used was 400mcg. The set and setting was perfect for what we wanted to accomplish. Get used to it: you are no more spiritual leader than I so quit handing out instruction like you are a big Guru and poo-pooing other peoples experiences like they don't know shit. Such sarcasm as you displayed is indication of an ego issue. There is NO cut and dry answer for everyone. We are individuals and we have individual tolerences, needs, and ideas.


Edited by Huehuecoyotl (03/23/05 04:50 PM)


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: set and setting, the path, etc. [Re: cubed]
    #3960068 - 03/23/05 04:40 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Great post.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: set and setting, the path, etc. [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3960698 - 03/23/05 06:25 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

yes you had fun


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