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Registered: 06/06/03
Posts: 40
Last seen: 19 years, 8 months
Entheogens and Soul
    #1629532 - 06/12/03 05:55 PM (20 years, 5 months ago)

Isn?t it very strange that many chemicals that affect our minds exist in plants, fungi, and certain poisonous amphibians? Isn?t it also strange that the plants and mushrooms that contain the most popular chemicals are among the most common in nature and certainly one of the most valuable in the marketplace?
In fact, it shows how dramatically humans can affect the course of evolution.
People have had a direct influence on the course of evolution for thousands of years. We?ve taken organisms with useful chemicals, increased their genetic variation, and probably made their extinction far less likely than any other organism besides us. The symbiosis we have with these fungi and plants is more complicated than any symbiosis in nature. Their genetic variation has probably increased to a degree hardly seen since evolution began.
If you?re an evolutionist and approve of using entheogens, you should read "The Holographic Universe? by Michael Talbot. He offers an explanation that is compatible with both evolution and the existence of soul.
Entheogens allow us to perceive beyond the normal human limits of perception. The following is an excerpt from my notes, which I sent to my Dad to explain the general principles espoused in The Holographic Universe. I know, it's complicated and many of us are stoned but here it is:

"I wanted to write this essay in order to more adequately explain the theory espoused in the book I just bought ?The Holographic Universe.? First, I want to explain the theory for purposes of discussion and such, but also I want to solidify my understanding of the theory. I consider myself a scientific person; I?ve always needed evidence to believe something. Also, I?ve never had an overwhelming need to believe in spirituality. But I must admit that I am compelled by the theory?s logic. It helps to answer the question that has been bothering me, which I cannot answer: If, as many scientists believe, life and its corresponding complicated behaviors are simply the result of physiological processes - the chemical interactions of neurons that influence our behavior ? then why is conscious awareness a necessary result? As in Steven Spielberg?s movie Artificial Intelligence, the robots had no souls, but their behavior was very human. In other words, why could I not simply behave and interact with others in a complicated way and at the same time not have the thinking emotional experience that I do? It?s an interesting question that is as insightful as the one Newton asked: why do objects fall to the ground and not float around instead?

A hologram, the traditional way we know it, is an image created when ?interference patterns? ? the crisscrossing of light waves ? are recorded on a piece of holographic film. The end result is a three-dimensional image. But we?ve also created audio holograms, which are made similarly, only with sound wave interference patterns, called ?holophonic sound.? Even touch can be simulated. For example, one neurological experiment on humans created its subjects? impressions that they were being touched at a point outside their bodies. Even olfactory sense (and perhaps taste, though I?ve never read anything about it) can be thought of in terms of waves. Interestingly, any pattern, no matter how complex, can be converted mathematically into ?Fourier transforms? ? wave information. Most complicated mathematical software has functions for Fourier transforms, including Mathematica.

The logical question then arises: if this is all true, how then do we know that reality, in its purest form, is not just wave information? After all, the conscious experience is only the result of a mental process ? the interpretation of information. If we created an audio, visual, tactile, olfactory, and taste hologram (which is possible in theory) how would we know that it was a fake?

Further, there is evidence that the brain itself stores and processes information in terms of waves. Because neurons are bundled so densely, they fire in wavelike patterns, much how concentric rings form in water when an object is dropped into it. There is empirical evidence that the brain functions holographically. When we cut a piece of holographic film in half, we don?t get half an image. We get instead two copies of the original image, only smaller and with less resolution. One Stanford neurophysiologist, Karl Pribram, noted that the brain may store information holographically. When pieces of people?s and animals? brains are cut out, they don?t lose portions of their memory. It instead becomes foggier and unclear, but the whole remains intact. For instance, cutting a person?s brain couldn?t possibly cause total forgetfulness of one sibling along with remembrance of others. Memories simply become fuzzier. Noting both this and the Fourier transform phenomenon, Pribram asked himself: what is real, the seemingly objective reality, or the blur of interference patterns? Pribram was directed by his physicist son to another physicist, David Bohm of the University of London, according to whom the entire universe is a hologram.

Bohm?s interest was in quantum theory ? the theory that the most fundamental particle is the quanta ? a ?particle? that when observed behaves as a single particle, but when unobserved behaves as a wave. Many physicists believed that quantum theory is complete, but both Bohm and Einstein disagreed. When an electron and its antimatter equivalent collide, they form two photons which at any given instant, must have the same angle of polarization. Einstein and Bohm were dissatisfied. How, they asked, could one of these two particles know the angle of polarization of the other unless both were communicating faster than the speed of light?
This insight supplemented Bohm?s work on plasma fields. Electrons in plasma fields seemed to behave as parts of a greater whole. That is, they seemed to be controlled by the whole plasma field. Bohm also observed a similar phenomenon when he observed electrons in metals ? they seemed organized by the whole as opposed to organizing the whole. These observations led Bohm to conclude that there was a deeper order, controlled by a field he called the quantum potential.

Bohm asserted that things were not the result of their parts? interactions, but that they were the result of this deeper order, which caused particles to behave as a coordinated whole. This whole?s most basic characteristic is ?non-locality? ? the meaninglessness of believing that particles exist at specific points in space. He extrapolated and proposed an answer to the faster-than-light communication problem. Bohm explains the angle of polarization problem with an analogy. Imagine a fish in a tank. Two cameras viewing the tank are connected to two screens. One camera views the tank from the front while the other views it from the side. An observer would view the fish from the two screens and recognize that there is a relationship between the two images, but not that they are the same object.

Another physicist named Aspect actually measured the angle of polarization of two photons that were the result of the decay of an electron and its antimatter equivalent. Quantum theory did indeed predict the results: their angles of polarization were the same. Therefore, they either communicated faster than light or they were non-locally connected ? distance and orientation in space were meaningless.

Bohm published a book called Wholeness and the Implicate Order. He says that the universe is a giant, flowing hologram ? the ?holomovement.? There is no such thing as an ?elementary particle.? An electron is only a certain aspect of the holomovement. Just as all the information stored in a piece of holographic film is contained in every piece cut from it, so too is the universe. Size, distance, time are all meaningless. They are only our interpretations of the information that is the universe?s most basic reality: the implicate order.

The implicate order is simply waves of information whose interference patterns create the seemingly objective reality that our minds experience, called the explicate order. In the explicate order, we see elementary particles. But they are only our interpretations of the implicate order?s interference patterns. The universe is not billions of light years distance from its edges. We only see it that way.

The conscious mind is a process of interference patterns. Information is stored in our minds in terms of waves. This process of waves interprets other information waves, creating the explicate order. The mind, as Bohm says, is a ?subtle form of matter.? But also, since there is no space or time, only information, my mind is not looking at my computer. It is my computer just like it is the light from the sun and the matter contained in a rock. That is, they are different aspects of the same reality: pure information ? data lacking any mass or energy. Western science and Eastern mysticism meet.
One implication of all this is that what we perceive as time ? the whole of history ? is contained in an infinitely small ?point? containing only information in its purest form.

According to this theory, reality is the opposite of what the Reductionists believe. It?s not that mass, energy, space, and time are the true reality while the mind is their construct, the mind is the true reality while mass, energy, space, and time are its construct."

My Dad was skeptical. He had no intellectual objections for the theory. He?s just less willing to believe that physics is illusory and soul is real. I?m more skeptical than I lead on, but I would be far more willing to accept this explanation than any other:
LSD, Psilocybin, mescaline and others allow our minds to perceive the ?implicate order? greater than before. They abolish the neurological barrier that cheats us (to evolution?s advantage) of true perception. To be armed with this theory while tripping is liberating.

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The greatEnitsuj

Registered: 12/11/02
Posts: 765
Loc: Ontario
Last seen: 16 years, 9 months
Re: Entheogens and Soul [Re: Crotalus]
    #1629597 - 06/12/03 06:19 PM (20 years, 5 months ago)

wow..thats a really long post and i'm kinda tired, but i will check out that book, from what i did read, sounds intresting :smile:

What fun is it in Nirvana while other beings are suffering?

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Registered: 06/06/03
Posts: 40
Last seen: 19 years, 8 months
Re: Entheogens and Soul [Re: soylent_green]
    #1630099 - 06/12/03 10:01 PM (20 years, 5 months ago)

It's interesting that when we discover there's so much more informaion in the Universe than our minds can normally perceive, we seek cacti with mescaline and mushrooms with psilocybin so we may have a superior religious experience to others.

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Live Love
Registered: 08/03/02
Posts: 23
Re: Entheogens and Soul [Re: Crotalus]
    #1630135 - 06/12/03 10:18 PM (20 years, 5 months ago)

Very thought provoking... I find that reality is always interpreted in waves, and life itself seems to happen in waves.  With each wave of life cascading and our different choices and their effects as they collide with others.  Reading between these waves is where you interpretation of reality lies.   

Don't emotions come and go in waves?  How about Holophonic Emotions?  The ability to control the mind through manufactured waves seems even more a reality. 

Guns that cripple the mind, one can only imagine.

F00d fer th0ts..

"It has been said that wisdom is the ability to understand others;
it is the understanding of yourself that is enlightenment." -Shulgin

Edited by Ago.Diligo (11/09/10 07:46 AM)

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Registered: 06/06/03
Posts: 40
Last seen: 19 years, 8 months
Re: Entheogens and Soul [Re: Ago.Diligo]
    #1631802 - 06/13/03 04:44 PM (20 years, 5 months ago)

Tomorrow I expect to confirm this theory. Headed to MS - I hear there are a lot of good fields along I-55. Any advice from anyone?

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