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Re: Harrassed by cops in a grocery store? [Re: SWEDEN]
    #3873138 -

Perhaps Learyfan was saying he should have put a fight through not showing the cop his ID at all.

That is exactly what I would have done. If you're doing nothing suspicious then you don't have to identify yourself or provide ID.

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Re: Harrassed by cops in a grocery store? [Re: newuser1492]
    #3873144 -

Yeah you guys are right in that sense, it's good to stand up for yourself when your rights are threatened. But something so trivial as some cop with an axe to grind who wants to see ID, just show him to get him out of your face and he can move on to his next victim.


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Re: Harrassed by cops in a grocery store? [Re: SWEDEN]
    #3873171 -

Complacency is a threat to our freedoms. It takes people standing up for even the least significant of rights to sustain our liberties. Although I wouldn't consider this a least significant right.

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Re: Harrassed by cops in a grocery store? [Re: newuser1492]
    #3873209 -

So, once again, united states citizens are NOT required to show ID unless they are being stopped for some crime and/or suspicious behavior? I want to be clear on this. I may go back there. The more I think about it the more it bothers me. Not like a gaping knife wound, but like an itch I can't scratch.


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I am the devil and I am just like you

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Re: Harrassed by cops in a grocery store? [Re: nunciate]
    #3873230 -

Well I'm not a lawyer so you'd have to ask someone more knowledgeable than I for a definitive answer. However from what I've read the only time a citizen is required to produce ID is when they are operating a motor vehicle. Other than that a State may require you to identify yourself to an officer if he has suspicion of a crime being committed. Identify yourself means giving your name not producing an ID.

If you're walking down the sidewalk doing nothing illegal then as far as I know an officer has no right to stop you or ask for ID/identification.

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Re: Harrassed by cops in a grocery store? [Re: nunciate]
    #3874672 -

:rotfl: That sucks dude.

Dam pigz.

Round here this kiddie beat up a questioning pig in the middle of town.  The cop was running away calling for backup and he got his ass beat down! :rotfl: The kiddie never got caught either.


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Re: Harrassed by cops in a grocery store? [Re: Annapurna1]
    #3876933 -

Annapurna1 said:
yes..you must present an ID upon request..the SCOTUS has determined so in a party-line vote...and if you dont carry an ID for that purpose..the consequences may extend far beyond not being able to buy beer...


thats a 2way street, the cop, even if he;s in uniform has to provide his county
issued ID upon request, the appropriate action is to request the cops ID,
especialy since the incident occured on private property.


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California Has Legalized Child Prostitution

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Re: Harrassed by cops in a grocery store? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #3876959 -

What sucks about the Hibel case is a cop could ask for your ID and then if you refuse they could claim that gave them reasonable suspicion to *demand* your ID as required by the Hibel ruling. If you still refuse you could be arrested. So basically you go from nothing to arrest all based on a cop's desire to identify you, most likely in an attempt to fish for an outstanding warrant. At least that's what the particular wording of the case leaves room for. As to whether that will happen, if it hasn't already, only time will tell.


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Happiness is a warm gun...

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Re: Harrassed by cops in a grocery store? [Re: unbeliever]
    #3877196 -

What sucks about the Hibel case is a cop could ask for your ID

NO. He can ask for identification which means you state your name. You are not required to provide a driver's license nor are you required to carry one except when you are operating a motor vehicle.

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Re: Harrassed by cops in a grocery store? [Re: newuser1492]
    #3877240 -

cb9fl said:
What sucks about the Hibel case is a cop could ask for your ID

NO. He can ask for identification which means you state your name. You are not required to provide a driver's license nor are you required to carry one except when you are operating a motor vehicle.


You're misunderstanding me. During either an investigatory stop or even during an interview an officer can ask you any questions not relating to involvement in, or guilt of, a crime. So yes, they *can* ask for your ID. However at that point you are not required by law to provide it. What I am saying however is that your refusal could be a component of the cop's case building towards reasonable suspicion, at which point from a legal standpoint, yes he *can* require you to provide ID. That is the thing that worries me in regards to that ruling.

Incidentally, one of the faults I found with the decision was that in a sense, providing ID *is* self-incriminating in that it can lead directly to the revelation of warrants for arrest and etc. So by that measure requiring ID should not come until you are in a custodial situation. Basically the cops need to do their jobs and not rely on fishing expeditions. If they don't have enough to arrest you on probable cause, based on their observations, your behavior or some act then they should have no right to require ID even during an IS with the exception of providing a valid drivers license if you're operating a motor vehicle. But that's just my own opinion.


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Happiness is a warm gun...

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Re: Harrassed by cops in a grocery store? [Re: unbeliever]
    #3877276 -

If they don't have enough to arrest you on probable cause, based on their observations, your behavior or some act then they should have no right to require ID even during an IS with the exception of providing a valid drivers license if you're operating a motor vehicle.

I agree. However it was my impression that even if arrested or in their custody you were not required to present ID. Simply state your name and that is all.

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Re: Harrassed by cops in a grocery store? [Re: newuser1492]
    #3877942 -

cb9fl said:
If they don't have enough to arrest you on probable cause, based on their observations, your behavior or some act then they should have no right to require ID even during an IS with the exception of providing a valid drivers license if you're operating a motor vehicle.

I agree. However it was my impression that even if arrested or in their custody you were not required to present ID. Simply state your name and that is all.


Actually you are required to provide processing / booking information upon arrest I believe. And that includes all kinds of information beyond just your name. In fact if you lie about your booking information you can be prosecuted for it. HERE is an interesting case involving just such a situation.


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Happiness is a warm gun...

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Re: Harrassed by cops in a grocery store? [Re: nunciate]
    #3886318 -

I just got harrassed by campus security for being out and about at a time when most people are asleep. I woke up early and couldn't go back to sleep, so I went outside and had a smoke. Apparently, that's suspicious enough behavior for him to check my ID. Unfortunately, since it's university property, I don't think my 4th amendment rights have any bearing on the situation, so I went ahead and showed him my student ID. But man, I hate the fact that I can get harrassed like that just for not getting a full night's sleep.


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Re: Harrassed by cops in a grocery store? [Re: Silversoul]
    #3886364 -

> But man, I hate the fact that I can get harrassed like that just for not getting a full night's sleep.

Look at it from the security guards perspective... they get reports of robberies all the time... most of them occur at night... they don't know the student body... some guy out a night... might be a student... might be a rapist... let it go and assume the guy is a good one, or spend a few minutes making sure the guy is a student?


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Just another spore in the wind.

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Re: Harrassed by cops in a grocery store? [Re: Seuss]
    #3886740 -

> But man, I hate the fact that I can get harrassed like that just for not getting a full night's sleep.

I don't think that's really harrassment. You were outside late at night on what amounts to someone else's property. All they did was ask for ID, right? They didn't club you with their walkie talkies or drag you down to the security office in handcuffs or anything like that did they?


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Happiness is a warm gun...

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Re: Harrassed by cops in a grocery store? [Re: nunciate]
    #3886838 -

you did exactly what I would of done, did he even tell you he was a cop, if not then he had no right to ask you no matter what the law is.


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America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

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Re: Harrassed by cops in a grocery store? [Re: unbeliever]
    #3886910 -

unbeliever said:
> But man, I hate the fact that I can get harrassed like that just for not getting a full night's sleep.

I don't think that's really harrassment. You were outside late at night on what amounts to someone else's property.


You know, now that I think about it, I was on a sidewalk on a road that ran through the campus. Sidewalks are public property, aren't they? Oh well. Even if I could challenge it in court, I'm in too much trouble with the university as it is(got busted for pot recently), so I don't need any extra trouble on top of that.

Quote:
All they did was ask for ID, right?


And asked a number of probing questions, like why I was wearing gloves(it was cold), why I was up at that time(couldn't sleep), where I lived(it was the dorm I was standing in front of), what I relationship was to some other guy they apparently saw walking around(I had no idea who they were talking about), and what kind of cigarettes I was smoking(Djarum Cherry).

Quote:
They didn't club you with their walkie talkies or drag you down to the security office in handcuffs or anything like that did they?


No, but if they had it would have been brutality, not harassment.


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