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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Age of Consent?
    #2658078 - 05/09/04 09:17 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

A post in another thread got me thinking about the age of consent. What do you think is the most reasonable age of consent and why? Do you think it should be the same everywhere, or do cultural differences mandate different standards of maturity?


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Onlinedeff
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Re: Age of Consent? [Re: silversoul7]
    #2658127 - 05/09/04 09:29 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

I personally feel that age to a certain extent does very little to affect maturity. Sure, people like 13 and younger are *usually* much less mature than an adult, but it's not always true. In an ideal society there'd be some sort of maturity test, or no restrictions at all and rather an emphasis solely on education and harm reduction practices.


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Edited by deff (05/09/04 09:33 PM)


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OfflinePhred
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Re: Age of Consent? [Re: silversoul7]
    #2658129 - 05/09/04 09:29 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

I'll take it one step further. Should there be a single age of consent, or multiple ones -- i.e. age at which one may accept employment, age at which one may marry, age at which one may drive, age at which one may vote, etc.

pinky


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OfflineHypnoToad
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Re: Age of Consent? [Re: silversoul7]
    #2658295 - 05/09/04 10:12 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

I say let all anarchy reign.I personally dont need some government dickhead in a suit deciding my life for me.I personally feel freedom needs to be allowed.We dont have freedom...not even close.True freedom is doing what we please as we please.Not what we please from a prearranged list of do's and dont's.And just because there are laws doesnt mean people obey them and what good is a law you cant enforce?

"The only freedom which counts is the freedom to do what some other people think to be wrong.
There is no point in demanding freedom to do that which all will applaud.
All the so-called liberties or rights are things which have to be asserted against others
who claim that if such things are to be allowed their own rights are infringed or their own liberties threatened.
This is always true, even when we speak of the freedom to worship, of the right of free speech
or association, or of public assembly. If we are to allow freedoms at all
there will constantly be complaints that either the liberty itself or the way in which it is exercised
is being abused, and, if it is a genuine freedom, these complaints will often be justified.
There is no way of having a free society in which there is not abuse.
Abuse is the very hallmark of liberty."

-- Former Lord Chief Justice Hailsham




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"There is no fire like lust, no grip like hate, no net like delusions, no river like craving."



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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Age of Consent? [Re: HypnoToad]
    #2658355 - 05/09/04 10:24 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Are you suggesting that pedophilia should be legal? There are arguments that could be made for that, but I've discussed the issue in depth with people, and I have to agree that there's an issue of informed consent here. At a certain age, children are not able to make an informed decision about whether or not to have sex. I can link you to that debate in S&P if you like.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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InvisibleDieCommie
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Re: Age of Consent? [Re: silversoul7]
    #2658708 - 05/10/04 01:41 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

I say the age for most things should be 20.  Age of consent, drivers liscence, vote, military, smoke (weed or cigs :wink:) drink etc.


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Invisiblebert
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Re: Age of Consent? [Re: DieCommie]
    #2658720 - 05/10/04 01:46 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

20 for a driver's license? You are crazy, man. I think a better age would be between 16-18 for all of the above except military service which would be better set between 18-20.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Age of Consent? [Re: DieCommie]
    #2658745 - 05/10/04 01:54 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Well, your plan would've kept me from voting for Gore, so I guess that'd be a victory for you.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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InvisibleDieCommie
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Re: Age of Consent? [Re: silversoul7]
    #2658763 - 05/10/04 02:00 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Would have kept me from voting for Gore tool..... ; )

As for driving goes....the number one killer of teens is car accidents.....and the worst drivers on the road are seniors and teens....I would feel alot safer and pay alot less insurance if niether of them were on the road....

Perhaps an age limit is too definative and a stricter driving course could be implimented. Then the majority of immature teens couldn't pass and the few who are mature can drive.

Im not sure if this ^^ is a good idea, but i do know to stay away from the high school at lunch, and release, because i cant afford full coverage on my car lol


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Age of Consent? [Re: DieCommie]
    #2658775 - 05/10/04 02:04 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

As for driving goes....the number one killer of teens is car accidents.....and the worst drivers on the road are seniors and teens....I would feel alot safer and pay alot less insurance if niether of them were on the road....



Don't you think that might be because they're new to driving? With your plan, we'd just have some bad 20-year-old drivers as opposed to bad 16-year-old drivers.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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InvisibleDieCommie
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Re: Age of Consent? [Re: silversoul7]
    #2658790 - 05/10/04 02:09 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

No i dont think its cause there new to driving at all. Its because they take unnecessary risks, drive to fast, and are all around too immature.

If age has no bearing on driving skills and maturity on the road, why have an age limit at all?

Nothing you can say would make me think a 20yr old new driver would drive as recklessly as a 16 yr old new driver.


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OfflineHagbardCeline
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Re: Age of Consent? [Re: silversoul7]
    #2658826 - 05/10/04 02:19 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

I would tend to agree with DieCommie, but I'm not sure what age I would set. Probably at least 18. When I think of the things I did at 16 in a car, it's a miracle I never killed anyone. And most of the guys I know were the same way.


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I keep it real because I think it is important that a highly esteemed individual such as myself keep it real lest they experience the dreaded spontaneous non-existance of no longer keeping it real. - Hagbard Celine


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Age of Consent? [Re: HagbardCeline]
    #2658833 - 05/10/04 02:20 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

I started driving at age 18, and I scared my parents and friends for a while.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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InvisibleDieCommie
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Re: Age of Consent? [Re: silversoul7]
    #2658845 - 05/10/04 02:25 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

I didnt start till 18 either...thank god i probally would have killed someone at 16...

Its amazing how much you change from 16 to 20...


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Anonymous

Re: Age of Consent? [Re: DieCommie]
    #2658857 - 05/10/04 02:29 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

totally true!
when i was a teen i didn't give a rats arse about my car or who else was on the road but i never had an accident unless i was drinkdriving(i got in a car about one year before they ever introduced a dui unit/law) lol
as for drinking and sex,i don't think any age limits will ever matter,most kids start drinking in their preteen years while mummy and daddy are pissed and having parties,damn i used to mix my mums scotch and milk and have a hefty gulp when i was about 8
being a parent id have to say that with sex comes all the risks and to start teaching them about it early cause no law is gonna stop a horny stud or a pedophile from getting what they want
also peer pressure is a killer of laws


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OfflineHagbardCeline
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Re: Age of Consent? [Re: silversoul7]
    #2658883 - 05/10/04 02:35 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

But it's is during this 16-20 period where you go from thinking with an ego that's awash with testosterone and feelings of invincibility to an ego that realizes it isn't so big after all, just one small part of giant system. I think this allows for more rational judgement and a trend towards eliminating unnecessary risks.


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I keep it real because I think it is important that a highly esteemed individual such as myself keep it real lest they experience the dreaded spontaneous non-existance of no longer keeping it real. - Hagbard Celine


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OfflineDigitalDuality
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Re: Age of Consent? [Re: silversoul7]
    #2658896 - 05/10/04 02:38 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

I agree that the age of consent should be in relation to culture. In relation to American culture as a whole though..

I think drawing this line in the sand is a pretty bad way of doing things, but i don't see a better alternative. It's hard to "test" maturity.

I think drugs should be legalized, and have the age be 18 or 21. I think alcohol should be lowered. I know many people who.. boom turned 21, were allowed to drink, and weren't so fucken retarded about it anymore b/c it wasn't rebellious anymore.. i could be wrong here.

Driving.. I got my license at 16. I've never gotten into a wreck, or tried street racing. I've never recieved a major ticket for anything. It may be too young.

I think the way working is set up currently is fair.

That all being said, I don't understand how we can send men/women off to die in a war, to protect our freedoms, when they aren't old enough to enjoy the freedoms they're dying for.


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Offlinephi1618
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Re: Age of Consent? [Re: Phred]
    #2659220 - 05/10/04 12:41 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

I think there should be multiple ages - as there are. However, I think that the one's we have reflect values that I don't share, and I would change them.

I think the age for public drinking should be lower than the age for driving, so that people have experience with public drinking before they drive - are familiar with its effects, etc.

I'd probably lower the drinking age to 14, raise the age for a provisional drivers license to 18, at least.

Driving is dangerous, and poor drivers are dangerous to other people. A higher level of maturity matters - I don't have figures here to back it up, but I'm pretty sure a 20 year old new to driving is much safer than a 16 year old new to driving.


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Age of Consent? [Re: phi1618]
    #2659321 - 05/10/04 01:31 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

> I think the age for public drinking should be lower than the age for driving, so that people have experience with public drinking before they drive - are familiar with its effects, etc.... I'd probably lower the drinking age to 14

It is better to lower the drinking age so that people can learn to drink before they  learn to drive?  Interesting logic.

> I say the age for most things should be 20.  Age of consent, drivers liscence, vote, military, smoke

I agree, but would also include being tried in a court as an adult doesn't occur until whatever this age is.  I find it obscene that somebody can be forced to risk death for their country, but are not mature enough to drink!?  I am also disgusted that a thirteen year old can be tried as an adult for murder.  Perhaps 18 would be a better age than 20, but whatever the age is, it should count for everything.

Of course, I would like to see certain 'holes' left open...

You can drink, smoke, whatever, with your parents consent... they gotta be present to keep an eye on you, etc.

You can drive, with a limited license, to help you learn... only to, from work, or during the day, or with an licenced adult in the car, etc...

Basically, common sense sort of things.  Of course, this would require parents to become actual parents and to spend time with their children... something most adults seem unwilling to do.  It would also require people to take responsibility for their own actions, rather than blaming others.  I don't see people, in general, being mature enough to handle this much responsibility anytime soon.  :frown:


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OfflineHypnoToad
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Re: Age of Consent? [Re: silversoul7]
    #2659376 - 05/10/04 01:59 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

"Are you suggesting that pedophilia should be legal? There are arguments that could be made for that, but I've discussed the issue in depth with people, and I have to agree that there's an issue of informed consent here. At a certain age, children are not able to make an informed decision about whether or not to have sex. I can link you to that debate in S&P if you like."

No of course Im not saying that.However we must realize "children" have sex lives and sexual feelings whether us in america are willing to admit or not.Most people lose their virginity before age 16 and a good number of them before or around 12 to 13.I dont think its right for agencies to remove children from their home or take legal action for them expressing themselves with others in their own age range. I believe 14 is old enough to drink and most people here start drinking around that age and nothing police can do will stop that.

I believe that there are too many laws and most are useless doing little to nothing.

Human beings have a need for violence as well and this isnt easily quenched sometimes.I feel people should be allowed to brawl to a good point.It would settle alot.lmao

I feel we need a decentralized government as well and we should be allowed to ingest anything even if it were to kill us because we should have that freedom.

And there are 40 year olds who can't make informed decisions about anything.Maturity tends to be a ruling factor in all situations and circumstances. lmao

The one thing I'd like to do away with is the FDA.lol Theyre biased and government controlled and are known to fib about substances and plants.


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