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OfflinePhanTomCat
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Killing yourself.................................................................
    #3748855 - 02/08/05 01:33 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Could you, Would you, Kill YOURSELF - IF thought that you had too....?


Truth in irony....    I think this is a SICK question(pardon the pun)....  So what would you choose if you were dealt this particular very "unfair" hand....

Your instincts are completely programmed against it....
If you believe in God, it is a sin to do it....
They always say it is the "cowards" way out....  (To which I don't understand....)

Lets turn the tables, and use a hypothetical scenario....  And I am SURE there has been some movie, or artist, or TwilightZone that has already had this idea, I am asking these questions to understand through other's perspectives....    :tongue:




Scenario:
OK, you feel sick and go to the hospital....  They do bloodwork, come back, and quickly whisk you away into a totally isolated "clean room"....  There they tell you that you have come into contact with two strains of viruses, and when they "re-arrange" within you, they will create a new strain of virus that will completely wipe out mankind - with the exception of you....  You have 10 minutes before the full "re-arrangment" takes place and the new virus is "created"....  You are then passed a syringe with poizon in it, to make you pass away quickly and painlessly.....  You are then told that you have the CHOICE to save mankind....  You are told in a low voice,  "The new virus cannot "create itself" unless you are alive....." 

:eek:  :sad:  :crying: 






Would you put your God, and/or your Beliefs, and your instincts to the side, and choose to take your own life - to save all of life on the rest of the planet....?  If you believe in God, would you be hoping that it would be seen as forgivable, and indeed a noble sacrifice having broken such a strong rule....?  (Doesn't that one put you in purgatory...?)

OR....

Would you hold on to your Instincts, your Beliefs, and/or God, and let the scenario/fate play out and unfold knowing that your very own decision would very likely end mankind....?    After all, they *could* be wrong, but in this instance, they are not.....

OR....

Perhaps you have a different answer....?





:sun:  :heart:  :sun:

(BTW, I am not sure if it is Christianity, or if it is Catholicism, (or both?) that have "purgatory"....?)

>^;;^<


--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."

>^;;^<


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Offlinefaslimy
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Re: Killing yourself................................................................. [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #3748886 - 02/08/05 01:39 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

That question seems obvious

I guess killing myself doesn't seem like such a drastic measure because I plan to do it.

I have no desire to live old.


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Invisibledownforpot
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Re: Killing yourself................................................................. [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #3748888 - 02/08/05 01:39 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

I would never kill myself. I would only let someone else kill me. It's seems very cowardly to kill yourself. Death before dishonor man. It's not dying what makes me ask questions, it's what will happen after I die. I've been asking this myself every day now for some reason.


--------------------



http://www.myspace.com/4th25


"And I don't care if he was handcuffed
Then shot in his head
All I know is dead bodies
Can't fuck with me again"


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OfflinePhanTomCat
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Re: Killing yourself................................................................. [Re: downforpot]
    #3748918 - 02/08/05 01:43 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Some cultures honor suicide..... Very honorable to some.....


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Offlinefaslimy
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Re: Killing yourself................................................................. [Re: downforpot]
    #3748941 - 02/08/05 01:48 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

There is an infinity. Your life time is but a split second in the grand scheme. Whatever you do, live old, live young, you will die. Infinity will wash over everything forever.. whatever you do won't make a difference as infinity keeps turning.

Theres only one thing that I can be sure of and that is infinity, it rules out everything


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InvisiblePsychoactive1984
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Re: Killing yourself................................................................. [Re: downforpot]
    #3748949 - 02/08/05 01:49 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

First off, I'd never kill myself (beyond this example, or an accidental drug overdose)... but as for the hypothetical example presented:

-If you are tied to your beliefs and that of a god, your god (don't mean to be balsphemous or anything) ain't shit if you're presented with the only solution to everything is your end, and hence a Jesus complex is developed. (perhaps if they added something onto the "book" of your belief).

Beyond that, isn't it a greater sin that you're presented by such a dilemma? Where'd your god go, what allowed such an action to come into being? Beyond that, I'd have to know more of the situation before i could come up with more possibilities.

-Can't you just be isolated from people?
-What causes this "virus" to spend at such an expedient pace.
-If you were to kill yourself, how could you be assured through use of the poison that somebody wouldn't collect the "virus" and use it to their own ends?

Beyond such belief systems, and assumptions and questions presented, a sacrifice that great should always be undertaken imo.

And downforpot, when you die, you go home :smile: this life is just a vacation with a lot of unexpected delays.


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.


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Offlinezahudulallah
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Re: Killing yourself................................................................. [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #3748957 - 02/08/05 01:50 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Suicide is so sad. It's so human. Only a human would kill itself in order to make pain go away. Humans need love. Love people, people. I'm out.


--------------------


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OfflinePhanTomCat
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Re: Killing yourself................................................................. [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #3748984 - 02/08/05 01:56 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Psychoactive1984 said:
-If you are tied to your beliefs and that of a god, your god (don't mean to be balsphemous or anything) ain't shit if you're presented with the only solution to everything is your end, and hence a Jesus complex is developed. (perhaps if they added something onto the "book" of your belief).

Beyond that, isn't it a greater sin that you're presented by such a dilemma? Where'd your god go, what allowed such an action to come into being?






What would Jesus do.....?


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InvisiblePsychoactive1984
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Re: Killing yourself................................................................. [Re: zahudulallah]
    #3748992 - 02/08/05 01:57 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

zahudulallah said:
Suicide is so sad. It's so human. Only a human would kill itself in order to make pain go away. Humans need love. Love people, people. I'm out.




... What about whales, dolphins and many other examples beaching themselves for the collective group/pack when they have contracted illnesses? Doesn't seem so distinctly human to me.

Or what of Gazelles reacting to threats such as a stalking lion which places itself in a vulnerable position (as predators single out the one's that are typically different, possibly due to a sign of sickness i.e. easier kills)? In doing so the Gazelle warns the herd (whatever the fuck the gazzele group is called), and gives the possibility of sacrificing it's own life in the interest of the collective group it belongs to.


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.


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InvisiblePsychoactive1984
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Re: Killing yourself................................................................. [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #3749009 - 02/08/05 01:59 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Dunno, after reading everything I've come to think of him as a slight masochist for humanitarian goals ;P .

Seriously though, he'd give his life up for the benefit therof... but what has this to do with anything?

Why not choose Moses? He could "part" the viruses ;P


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.


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OfflinePhanTomCat
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Re: Killing yourself................................................................. [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #3749021 - 02/08/05 02:01 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

:lol:


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OfflinePhanTomCat
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Re: Killing yourself................................................................. [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #3749023 - 02/08/05 02:02 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

What does it have to do with anything....?  I seek answers....  Thats all....


Edit:
I have no doubts from what I know about Jesus that he would "give" his life for man....  I guess more the question I ask is:  would he choose to "take" his own life to save man.....?    Could he, under his God...?

:sun:


Edited by PhanTomCat (02/08/05 02:09 AM)


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Invisiblez@z.com
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Re: Killing yourself................................................................. [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #3749064 - 02/08/05 02:08 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

PhanTomCat said:
What would Jesus do.....?



You are asking a greater question than you think. Assuming that Jesus was truely who he says he was then he could have saved himself. Then he died for the sins of man. So was that suicide?


--------------------
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson


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OfflinePhanTomCat
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Re: Killing yourself................................................................. [Re: z@z.com]
    #3749088 - 02/08/05 02:14 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

z@z.com said:
Quote:

PhanTomCat said:
What would Jesus do.....?



You are asking a greater question than you think. Assuming that Jesus was truely who he says he was then he could have saved himself. Then he died for the sins of man. So was that suicide?




OOOooooo, that is an interesting way to answer....  It is a bit of a reach tho~....  There in lies the dilema....  It was a suicidal act of submission, BUT he did not truly take his life, he gave it.....  I am asking if he could take his own life....   

(That question came up prolly~ while you were posting this....)

:sun:


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InvisiblePsychoactive1984
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Re: Killing yourself................................................................. [Re: z@z.com]
    #3749094 - 02/08/05 02:15 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

z@z.com said:
Quote:

PhanTomCat said:
What would Jesus do.....?



You are asking a greater question than you think. Assuming that Jesus was truely who he says he was then he could have saved himself. Then he died for the sins of man. So was that suicide?




Good point, but as I see it, it was but a demonstration that a "son of god" would do such for mankind, and more so a demonstration to show man how one should believe in god (i.e. sacrificing one's self/interests)

Based on the assumption that you yourself are a believer. If he was/is the son of god, then his death was orchestrated from the beginning, so at least it was altruistic, which would in fact look better in the eyes who believe in that particular faith.


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.


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OfflineZekebomb
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Re: Killing yourself................................................................. [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #3749102 - 02/08/05 02:17 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Psychoactive1984 said:
... What about whales, dolphins and many other examples beaching themselves for the collective group/pack when they have contracted illnesses? Doesn't seem so distinctly human to me.




please provide evidence that whales beach themselves because they've contracted illnesses.

sometimes it's because they get trapped by low tide, or they go too hard trying to catch food (especially orcas). sometimes whole pods of whales beach themselves ( http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/01/15/beached.whales.ap/ )...
it's been tentativaly linked, at least partially, to Navy use of sonar, or other underwater testing ( http://www.seaflow.org/article.php?id=241 , http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A42788-2005Jan27.html , http://archives.cnn.com/2000/NATURE/07/28/beached.whales ).


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Invisibleblissedout
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Re: Killing yourself................................................................. [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #3749106 - 02/08/05 02:18 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

I would have to say no. I would just live on the Earth, alone. Sounds kind of peaceful, actually. :crazy:


--------------------



:murray:


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InvisiblePsychoactive1984
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Re: Killing yourself................................................................. [Re: Zekebomb]
    #3749118 - 02/08/05 02:22 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

http://users.aber.ac.uk/jyy1/robert.htm

sorry, not conclusive but possible speculation as to why they beach themselves (could just be a coverup for damage control).


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.


Edited by Psychoactive1984 (02/08/05 02:32 AM)


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OfflineZekebomb
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Re: Killing yourself................................................................. [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #3749133 - 02/08/05 02:25 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Some areas are seen as whale grave yards as occasionally a whale will be found in one of these areas who is very old or suffering from a disease.

Many single whales that have been found beached are often very aged or are suffering from a disease or parasite and in some cases this triggers an instinct to beach.

If the leader of a pod is in such a state is then its instinct to go to ground to die may cause the pod to follow causing a mass stranding due to the closeness of the group.

The pack or family nature of whales such as pilot whales mean they will continue to follow the leader even if it puts them in danger.


crazy! it sounds pretty speculative, but then all the theories kinda do.


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OfflinePhanTomCat
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Re: Killing yourself................................................................. [Re: Zekebomb]
    #3749180 - 02/08/05 02:35 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

.....AAAHHHHEEEEMMMM......

Focus people, focus.....    ::::snapping ruler on desk::::

I have no doubts from what I know about Jesus that he would "give" his life for man.... And I ask again....:

Would/could Jesus Christ choose to "take" his own life to save man.....? Could he, under his God...?

:heart:


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