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OfflineGrowingVines
Slowly Changinginto a Tree
Registered: 08/22/02
Posts: 301
Loc: GA
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
When is it alright to Kill
    #961030 - 10/14/02 10:49 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

The Catholic pope said it was not a sin to kill in war. Is it justifyible to kill if someone has done you wrong? I can understand if someone is trying to break in your house and Murder you, i would try and kill them first. But how is one to cope with murder? I don't think war is a great thing, but it seems that war is the only way to get people to change there ways, beliefs or political powers. Is there anyother way? if not then what is the point of fighting for what you believe, when someone will just try and shut you down with brute force. I am just going on, i want to hear ALL of ya'lls beliefs and philosophy on the subject of Murder, when is it ok to kill another person?


peace out my brothers, for everyone has a bit of insanity in them


--------------------
Peace out my brothers, for everyone has a bit of insanity in them


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Anonymous

Re: When is it alright to Kill [Re: GrowingVines]
    #961045 - 10/14/02 10:56 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

1. Self-defense

2. War when it is self-defense.

3. When protecting someone in your care that cannot defend themselves.

Other moralities may differ.


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OfflineCleverName
the cloudsshould know meby now...

Registered: 08/26/02
Posts: 1,121
Loc: red earth painted with mi...
Last seen: 11 years, 6 months
Re: When is it alright to Kill [Re: GrowingVines]
    #961128 - 10/14/02 11:20 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

euthenasia is ok i think.
i think the pope is wrong about war.
bottom line, wars are fought over money, and money isnt worth a single life.


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if you can't find the truth right where you are, where else do you expect to find it?

this is the purpose


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InvisibleEvolving
Resident Cynic

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
Re: When is it alright to Kill [Re: ]
    #961232 - 10/14/02 11:49 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

I agree with you Mr_Mushrooms, but I would change number 3 to read:
3. When coming to the defense of an innocent person confronted with superior and possibly deadly force.


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To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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Anonymous

Re: When is it alright to Kill [Re: Evolving]
    #961238 - 10/14/02 11:51 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Yes Evolving. You were explicit with the implicit meaning of number 3.


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OfflineZahid
Stranger
Registered: 01/21/02
Posts: 4,779
Last seen: 12 years, 7 months
Re: When is it alright to Kill [Re: CleverName]
    #961360 - 10/15/02 12:27 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

euthenasia is ok i think.
i think the pope is wrong about war.
bottom line, wars are fought over money, and money isnt worth a single life.


It's rather naive of you to assume the root cause of all world conflicts (of past and present) is money. There is a circumstance when armed fighting is OK; under those conditions it would be justified to take another life if they are literally fighting against you.


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: When is it alright to Kill [Re: ]
    #961512 - 10/15/02 01:11 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

2. War when it is self-defense.

That sounds good theoretically, but there is rarely war without provocation. Pretending that the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor without reason or that the WTC bombings are random acts is total naivete.

I have never been in a bar room fight, yet was out with a friend that got in a dozen serious altercations in a period of 6 months. He never started a single one, but was a willing participant and got pleasure from the adrenaline rush. The desire for violence must generally be present in both sides.


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The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineCleverName
the cloudsshould know meby now...

Registered: 08/26/02
Posts: 1,121
Loc: red earth painted with mi...
Last seen: 11 years, 6 months
Re: When is it alright to Kill [Re: Zahid]
    #961523 - 10/15/02 01:13 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

yeah, i exageratted, so what


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if you can't find the truth right where you are, where else do you expect to find it?

this is the purpose


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OfflineWorldRaven
Duality of aRaven
Registered: 09/16/02
Posts: 7
Loc: Among the souls of my peo...
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Re: When is it alright to Kill [Re: GrowingVines]
    #961615 - 10/15/02 01:34 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

In reply to:

When is it alright to Kill



When is it not?]
Or is it ever?


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I created the world................
Now I must create it anew........


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OfflineGrowingVines
Slowly Changinginto a Tree
Registered: 08/22/02
Posts: 301
Loc: GA
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
Re: When is it alright to Kill [Re: WorldRaven]
    #962060 - 10/15/02 04:46 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

I like the revised #3 =)


peace out my brothers, for everyone has a bit of insanity in them


--------------------
Peace out my brothers, for everyone has a bit of insanity in them


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OfflineLOPHO.MP
looker

Registered: 09/28/02
Posts: 101
Loc: Santa Cruz CA.
Last seen: 10 years, 9 months
Re: When is it alright to Kill [Re: GrowingVines]
    #962417 - 10/15/02 08:52 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)


I agree in general with Plato's rules.

I consider myself a pacifist on a large scale: I hate war between large groups or nations, in these conflicts bystanders are almost allways brought in against their will. However, I think that some fighting between individuals is unavoidable I don't have problems with violence in this sense(moral considerations aside).

So, my primary problem with killing is not necessarily the justification of killing a certain person but the chances of killing others. You might have a perfectly good reason to kill Sadam for example but in doing so you will probably kill thousands of others. When you then start justifying the killing of these others because of what their leader has done, that is where i draw the line.

I think I would kill someone in self defense or in defense of my family or friends. I can't say if I would kill someone in revenge, it would depend a lot on the emotions of the moment.


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---Still Searching---


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InvisibleShroomismM
Space Travellin
Male User Gallery
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Posts: 64,868
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Re: When is it alright to Kill [Re: GrowingVines]
    #962523 - 10/15/02 10:06 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

I'm with Mr. Mushrooms.. only in self-defense. By that I mean when you have no other choice but to kill the person because you fear they are trying to take your own life. I have been trained to disable first, kill only if ABSOLUTELY neccessary.


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Offlinepostalboy
I'm not myfucking khaki's!
Registered: 06/07/02
Posts: 228
Loc: My tiny corner of the pad...
Last seen: 14 years, 1 month
Re: When is it alright to Kill [Re: CleverName]
    #962639 - 10/15/02 12:11 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

I have to agree with you on this one.  Euthanasia should be legal.  The government should not have control of the lives of any people.  Whether they are dying, diseased or just depressed.  Ending your life should be a personal right. 
The pope is always wrong, so this goes without saying.
And I will rephrase the last line.  Most wars are fought over money or religion.  See the "most" in that line is to keep any morons away from semantic arguments.

My problem with war in modern times is that the men who decide to war are never in danger. They send young men to do their killing for them. In my vocabulary that means they are cowardly bastards not worthy to breathe the air out of my asshole.  If Dubya wants to kill Hussein then ship his texas bitch ass over there and give him a gun.  If he isn't man enough to do it himself then he has NO RIGHT to expect others to do it for him.

I don't think I would have to dodge a draft as I doubt I would not pass any psych evaluations.  Plus the drugs.  :smile:  I would just show up at the draft higher than a fucking rocketship on LSD, dope, alcohol and coke.  And I would wear womens panties.  LOL  HEHEHHEHEHE        :laugh:

 


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"You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus." F and L in L.V.


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: When is it alright to Kill [Re: postalboy]
    #962737 - 10/15/02 01:09 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

And I would wear womens panties.

How is that different from your usual Friday night outing?


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The proof is in the pudding.


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Offlinevaporbrains
Cub Scout

Registered: 09/09/02
Posts: 539
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Last seen: 11 years, 10 months
Re: When is it alright to Kill [Re: ]
    #963140 - 10/15/02 03:32 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

i might point out that Mr. Mushrooms rule #2 ... 2. War when it is self-defense. could be used to justify attacking Iraq after the 9/11 bombing. it could be used in innumerable situations to justify war.

morality is an opinion.


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All refrences to and statements concerning mushrooms, mushroom cultivation, and mushroom related paraphrenalia refer specifically to the cultivation of legal species.


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OfflineGrowingVines
Slowly Changinginto a Tree
Registered: 08/22/02
Posts: 301
Loc: GA
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
Re: When is it alright to Kill [Re: vaporbrains]
    #963175 - 10/15/02 03:41 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

agreed everyone has different morals, but when the government is acted on there beliefs of what is right, do they usually go for what most of the people in that country want?


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Peace out my brothers, for everyone has a bit of insanity in them


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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 07/13/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
Re: When is it alright to Kill [Re: GrowingVines]
    #963197 - 10/15/02 03:48 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

do they usually go for what most of the people in that country want?

Well, they parade their actions as being utilitarian, but in actuality they're usually just lying or interpreting their actions in a manner that is more easily consumed by the masses they "represent".


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Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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OfflineMeph
Synesthesiac

Registered: 09/01/02
Posts: 1,568
Loc: Qu?bec
Last seen: 12 years, 8 months
Re: When is it alright to Kill [Re: Sclorch]
    #963224 - 10/15/02 04:00 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

In most circumstances, I'd rather die than kill. But that's just me.

There are no "right" or "wrong" ways to kill. I don't think it's possible to tell in advance if you would kill somebody "if that person had [...]", because you might do something totally unexpected when you have the gun in your hand...

If 1000 people were about to die, but YOU could save them by shooting down a small, innocent kid, what would you do? Are 1000 lives worth the killing of a child?

And, what if that child was yours?

Don't try to answer. You can't. If you ever get stuck in a situation like this one, it probably won't take you long to figure out what to do. You'll just do what your hands tell you to do, and think about it later.


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I'm a bipedal carbon-based pseudo-random number generator.

Demonstration: 152.



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InvisibleEvolving
Resident Cynic

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
Re: When is it alright to Kill [Re: Sclorch]
    #963229 - 10/15/02 04:01 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

In reply to:

Well, they parade their actions as being utilitarian, but in actuality they're usually just lying or interpreting their actions in a manner that is more easily consumed by the masses they "represent".



Based on that statement, some would label you a 'cynic.' I'll just term you a 'realist' until you give me cause to change my mind.


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To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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OfflineGrowingVines
Slowly Changinginto a Tree
Registered: 08/22/02
Posts: 301
Loc: GA
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
Re: When is it alright to Kill [Re: Evolving]
    #963256 - 10/15/02 04:11 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

who does the politions and government officials actually represent? voters? cause i never voted wasn't old enough for last elections. i think i would have gone with Nater(think that is his name)

peace out my brothers, for everyone has a bit of insanity in them


--------------------
Peace out my brothers, for everyone has a bit of insanity in them


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