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Invisibledorkus
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"Can you take it?"
    #3551825 - 12/28/04 09:21 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

By the age of twenty-one U.G. had become a quasi-atheist, studying secular western philosophy and psychology at the University of Madras. At this juncture he was asked by a friend to go with him to visit the famous "Sage of Arunachala", Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi, at his ashram at Tiruvannamalai, not far south of Madras. In the year 1939 U.G. reluctantly went. He was convinced by that time that all holy men were phonies and were taking people for a ride. But to his surprise Ramana Maharshi was different. The Bhagavan, a serene, doe-eyed sage of the highest wisdom and integrity, could not but make a strong impression on the young U.G. He rarely spoke to those who approached him with questions. U.G. approached the Bhagavan with some trepidation and misgivings, putting to the master three questions:

"Is there," asked U.G., "anything like enlightenment?"

"Yes, there is," replied the master.

"Are there any levels to it?"

The Bhagavan replied, "No, no levels are possible. It is all one thing. Either you are there or you are not there at all."

Finally U.G. asked, "This thing called enlightenment, can you give it to me?"

Looking the serious young man in the eyes he replied, "Yes, I can give it, but can you take it?"

Mind is a Myth

U.G.'s message is a shocking one: we are all on the wrong train, on the wrong track, going in the wrong direction. When the time comes to face up to the catastrophe of man's present crisis, you will find U.G. at the head of the line, ready and able to demolish the carefully built assumptions so dear and consoling to us all. A U.G. sampler: making love is war; cause-and-effect is the shibboleth of confused minds; yoga and health foods destroy the body; the body and not the soul is immortal; there is no communism in Russia, no freedom in America, and no spirituality in India; service to mankind is utter selfishness; Jesus was another misguided Jew; and the Buddha was a crackpot; mutual terror, not love, will save mankind; attending church and going to the bar for a drink are identical; there is nothing inside you but fear; communication is impossible between human beings; God, Love, Happiness, the unconscious, death, reincarnation and the soul are non-existent figments of our rich imagination; Freud is the fraud of the 20th century, while J. Krishnamurti is its greatest phoney.

The man's fearless willingness to brush aside all the accumulated knowledge and wisdom of the past is nothing short of stupendous. In this regard he is a colossus, a walking and talking "Siva", ready to destroy all so that life can move on with new vigor and freedom. His ruthless, unremitting attack on our most cherished ideas and institutions amounts to no less than an insurrection in consciousness; a corrupt superstructure, tainted at the core, is unceremoniously blown apart and nothing is put in its place. Taking great delight in the act of sheer annihilation, U.G. offers his listeners nothing, but rather, takes away all they have so laboriously and unwittingly accumulated. If the old must be destroyed before the new can be, then U.G. is, indeed, the harbinger of a new beginning for man.

Society, which, as Aldous Huxley pointed out, is organized lovelessness, can make no place for a free man like U.G. Krishnamurti. He does not fit into any known social structure, spiritual or secular. Society, which uses its members as a means to ensure its own continuity, cannot help but be threatened by a man like U.G., a devout disestablishmentarian who has nothing to protect, no following to satisfy, no interest in respectability, and who habitually speaks the most disillusioning truths no matter what the consequences.

U.G. is a 'finished' man. In him there is no search, and therefore no destiny. His life now consists of a series of disjointed events. There is no center to his life, no one 'conducting' his life, no inner shadow, no 'ghost in the machine'. What is there is a calm, smoothly functioning, highly intelligent and responsive biological machine, nothing more. One looks in vain for evidence of a self, psyche or ego; there is only the simple functioning of a sensitive organism. It is little wonder that such a 'finished' man would discard the banal, tarnished commonalities of science, religion, politics, and philosophy and instead bear directly into the heart of matters, presenting his case simply, fearlessly, forcefully, and without corroboration, to any who wish to listen.

:crazy:


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OfflineGomp
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Re: "Can you take it?" [Re: dorkus]
    #3551927 - 12/28/04 10:26 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

nothing can be lost.


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OfflineDankBluntZ
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Re: "Can you take it?" [Re: Gomp]
    #3552006 - 12/28/04 11:34 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

So basically he decided to bash anything and everything that is established. Once you make up your mind to do something like this, i dont see anything special about it, or how it could be hard to do. why do you put this man "U.G." on a pedestal? at least thats what it seems you are doing.


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OfflineFrog
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Re: "Can you take it?" [Re: DankBluntZ]
    #3552008 - 12/28/04 11:37 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

That's not exactly what he was doing.


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The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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OfflineDankBluntZ
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Re: "Can you take it?" [Re: Frog]
    #3552014 - 12/28/04 11:40 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Then what exactly is he doing?


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Invisibleshroomydan
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Re: "Can you take it?" [Re: DankBluntZ]
    #3552064 - 12/28/04 12:06 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

So "UG' is a nihilist. There have been quite a few before him.


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Invisibledorkus
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Re: "Can you take it?" [Re: shroomydan]
    #3552109 - 12/28/04 12:25 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

He is more like a spiritual guerilla warrior. Like fx Gurdjieff he attacks all believes. To me, this man shows that Truth is False.

My intention was not to put this man on a pedestial. Sorry if this is what it looks like. I hold U.G. in very high esteem and love reading his words. Maybe they don't ring true in your ears, but there might be some here at the Shroomery who find it interesting. So to put it corny, I just wanted to share this.

To spark discussion would of course also be nice :smile:


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Invisibledorkus
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Re: "Can you take it?" [Re: dorkus]
    #3552150 - 12/28/04 12:38 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Let me add that I think he is more than "just a nihilist". I actually believe he has gotten into a very special state. Same state as Ramana Maharshi lived in. Same state all will enter upon Death. Moksha. The ultimate witness state. Once in, there is no way out, according to both Ramana and U.G.

He cannot think anymore. All happens spontanously. Many people may have reached this state throughout history, but what is especially interesting in U.G.'s case, is his straight forward way of presenting this state to others.


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OfflineGomp
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Re: "Can you take it?" [Re: shroomydan]
    #3552233 - 12/28/04 01:08 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

shroomydan said:
So "UG' is a nihilist. There have been quite a few before him.




"You only need to know how wrong you are, to know how right you are."
-Unknown:P


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Offlineincubaby_421
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Re: "Can you take it?" [Re: dorkus]
    #3552243 - 12/28/04 01:11 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

sounds to me like another wannabe dictator trying to push his own viewpoint on everybody else, if he was so "enlightened" he would be likely to just ignore everybody else and their thoughts, habits, rituals, beliefs, etc. .


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"yet the more i dig, the more i consume, the more i unfold... the less protected i feel.
i am the spit on the hair of the son of an electron, swimming around the nucleus of a cell inside the sperm of a killer bee, and my purpose is as nebulous as why weve been bestowed with the capacity to give a shit" Brandon Boyd



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Invisibledorkus
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Re: "Can you take it?" [Re: incubaby_421]
    #3552287 - 12/28/04 01:22 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Sounds to me like he is one of the few who urges people to think for themselves. He indeed does ignore. But when confronted, he answers - sometimes.

It is ME who is trying to push, not him. You see?


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InvisibleDNKYD
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Re: "Can you take it?" [Re: dorkus]
    #3552397 - 12/28/04 02:04 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Is U.G his actual name, or does it stand for something? I'm interested and wondering if there are any books he wrote?


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Invisibledorkus
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Re: "Can you take it?" [Re: DNKYD]
    #3552422 - 12/28/04 02:16 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

His name is Uppaluri Gopala Krishnamurti. He has not written anything, and seldom given public lectures. But despite his own will, some people have started following him. They have recorded conversations with him.

None of the works are copyrighted. He doesn't believe in it :wink: At least he walks it as he talks it. Most spiritual teachers don't.

http://www.well.com/user/jct/

I strongly recommend Mind is a Myth and The Mystique of Enlightenment (called the Mistake of Enlightenment by U.G. himself :smile: )


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Re: "Can you take it?" [Re: dorkus]
    #3555064 - 12/29/04 12:46 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

i thought he frowned upon thought. the use of ones own mind, that we arent intelligent and only animals(in a sense). maybe i just misunderstood.


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"yet the more i dig, the more i consume, the more i unfold... the less protected i feel.
i am the spit on the hair of the son of an electron, swimming around the nucleus of a cell inside the sperm of a killer bee, and my purpose is as nebulous as why weve been bestowed with the capacity to give a shit" Brandon Boyd



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Re: "Can you take it?" [Re: incubaby_421]
    #3555231 - 12/29/04 01:23 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Destruction is often essential to progress. There is a time to let wrecking ball fly. But who would send a demolision team to wipe out a thriving, vibrant metropolis in order to clear the way for a new one? Who would uproot a healthy fruitbearing orchard in order to re-plant it all over? Sure there are flaws in our social architecture, but that doesn't call for a total reconstruction of the whole thing. I think this U.G. is a walking contradiction, and I get the impression that knows it and that he likes it that way.


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Re: "Can you take it?" [Re: soulmotion]
    #3555706 - 12/29/04 04:35 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

seems he needs true evidence of the soul,he only knows what he sees and regards his emotions as simply that.


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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Re: "Can you take it?" [Re: dorkus]
    #3557684 - 12/29/04 04:43 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

all i know about him is that in my own very limited readings of krishnamurti, i found him fairly well spoken, but nothing i read particualarly astounded or moved me. i had the sense of much bulk but little substance. lots of words but little meaning.

but thats probably because i wasnt aware enough or my mind was closed or i wasnt prepared to recieve...


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Invisibledorkus
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Re: "Can you take it?" [Re: incubaby_421]
    #3560828 - 12/30/04 11:52 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

i thought he frowned upon thought. the use of ones own mind, that we arent intelligent and only animals(in a sense). maybe i just misunderstood.

He claims that people are able to reach a very special state when totally surrendering and giving up all desire to change. Remember the context he grew up in, highly spiritual, traditional hinduism. Much superstition subsedes religion in poor countries. So basically, as I understand the man, he is trying to make us realize that reaching for a new state, trying to change, is the biggest hindrance to true change. Kinda zen, isn't it?

He often contradicts himself of course. Who does not? The cosmos we seem to reflect surely looks like a Paradox to me  :thumbup: It all depends on the circumstances.

He called the change which occured in him 'the calamity'. It somehow changed some biological structure, and his whole way of functioning. He is totally immersed in the moment no longer able to glimpse the fog of thought(?) ... or something?

Some may find his sayings interesting, some may find them obvious or maybe too pessimistic. I needed his grounding words and just wanted to put them here in case it might hit a nerve or something  :grin:

"Whenever such a thing [enlightenment] happened, it happened to those people who had given up completely and totally all their search. That is an absolute requisite for that kind of a thing.

Thought can never capture the movement of life, it is much too slow. It is like lightning and thunder. They occur simultaneously, but sound, travelling slower than light, reaches you later, creating the illusion of two separate events.

Thought is something dead and can never touch anything living. It cannot capture life,contain it, and give expression to it. The moment it tries to touch life it is destroyed by the quality of life.

Knowledge creates experience and experience strengthens the knowledge. This is a vicious circle."


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Offlineincubaby_421
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Re: "Can you take it?" [Re: dorkus]
    #3562296 - 12/30/04 07:15 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

sorry, i disagree, im glad you found something that is meaningful to you, that is a bonified rarity in itself, but it all sounds to me like anti-enlightenment, which he would probably like to hear...

not for me i know that

i have found a lot of things in my search and i will continue to search and giving up my search for self when i feel so close would seem pretty detrimental at this point, but then again who knows what will be found at the end!


--------------------
"yet the more i dig, the more i consume, the more i unfold... the less protected i feel.
i am the spit on the hair of the son of an electron, swimming around the nucleus of a cell inside the sperm of a killer bee, and my purpose is as nebulous as why weve been bestowed with the capacity to give a shit" Brandon Boyd



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Re: "Can you take it?" [Re: incubaby_421]
    #3564261 - 12/31/04 05:41 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

i read over the website and to me his anti enlightenment jabber seemed to be all based on his own wrong notion of enlightenment. his "calamity" is enlightenment, changing the name doesn't do anything. i'm very famaliar with maharshi's teachings and i didn't read anything there which i didn't already learn from maharshi and my own experiences. maharshi constantly emphazises that enlightenment is not something new to attain but is our natural state and is present always. maharshi also says that most spiritual practises and religions are insufficient for reaching enlightenment (although they can be helpful as preparation). he says there are really only 2 ways, one is total surrender and the other is realizing it intellectually through self inquiry. so this doesn not mean you should give up searching, it only means that in order to actually reach enlightenment you must eventually give up on doing anything at all. upon realizing enlightenment you realize that there was nothing to realize. it very paradoxial. anyway this is the same message i have gotten out of many of the spiritual teachings i have read even aside from maharshi's (although i consider his to the best). so what is this guy saying that's new? why does it say his veiws don't fit into any established structures? what is the difference between his views and maharshi's teachings? i see none.


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Amazon Shop for: Aldous Huxley

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