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CosmicJoke
happy mutant
Registered: 04/05/00
Posts: 10,848
Loc: Portland, OR
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Re: Ever wondered what happened to Bhagavan Das from Be Here Now? [Re: dorkus]
#6883396 - 05/07/07 05:49 AM (16 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Can we trust Ram Dass' other perceptions during that time in India, if he was so off the mark in regards to this guy? And didn't Ram Dass also admit that the story about giving Neem Baba the acid was a lie?
Don't get me wrong, I love the book too, but it is boggling to see so many lies and misperceptions.
Well, Paul Krassner wrote that Ram Dass admitted that he never gave the Maharaji acid. Ram Dass claimed he never once said this, and then Krassner admited that he heard this second hand and apologized for writing it. To me it seemed Ram Dass was trying to convey that all of his (Richard Alpert's) perceptions were way off the mark and that largely he was following Bhagavan Das out of infatuation, but in reality it was his guru, Neem Karoli, that was leading him there.
-------------------- Everything is better than it was the last time. I'm good. If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care. It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence. I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too. If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder
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Posts: 14,279
Loc: South Florida
Last seen: 3 years, 2 months
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Re: Ever wondered what happened to Bhagavan Das from Be Here Now? [Re: CosmicJoke]
#6883397 - 05/07/07 05:50 AM (16 years, 11 months ago) |
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I'm just disappointed is all. I used to be awed by his sadhu thing as gleaned from the pages of BE HERE NOW. Then I read his own account from his book, and he was 'demythologized' for me a bit. He's 8 years older than me; he left for India after JFK's assassination (was there 4 years when Dick Alpert met him in 'The Blue Tibetan' cafe in '67). It wasn't even acid that prompted the move as he hadn't taken any until he met Dick Alpert. It was Alan Ginsberg who apparently motivated him. Anyway, he used to appear more pulled together when he was younger, and something of a role model, and I imagined that by now there would be (my own projection) a more dignified detachment, quietly radiating Quality - a sense of the Witness predominating in my perception of him - not the potbellied prayer wheel twirling guy who seemed to be trying too hard. I kept seeing a big kid with a carnival pinwheel, in my mind. The problem is mine, not his.
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Huehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly
Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,689
Loc: On the Border
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Re: Ever wondered what happened to Bhagavan Das from Be Here Now? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
#6883424 - 05/07/07 06:09 AM (16 years, 11 months ago) |
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After reading Ram Dass's "Be Here Now", and then reading his newer book "Still Here" I came to the conclusion that while he gleaned some spiritual realizations early on, his popularity caused him to get get caught up in his own self importance. At that point he seemed to have stopped in his spiritual growth. The impression I got of him from "Still Here" was one of a weak and pathetic old man past his glory days...not of a wise guru or man of knowledge. It is made me quite aware that the process called enlightenment is an evolutionary and never ending process, not an end result that establishes itself permenantly in the human psyche.
-------------------- "A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder
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Posts: 14,279
Loc: South Florida
Last seen: 3 years, 2 months
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Re: Ever wondered what happened to Bhagavan Das from Be Here Now? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
#6885406 - 05/07/07 04:53 PM (16 years, 11 months ago) |
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I still have a multi-album set of 'Love, Serve, Remember,' which contained sacred music and readings, and some W-BAI radio shows where listeners called in to Ram Dass. This was a 1973 recording, perhaps the height of his popularity, and I've got to say that I still use some techniques that I first heard on those albums when working with people. I saw back then how Enlightening Entheogenic Excursions could become Compassion-in-action through 'Right Speech.' The recordings inspired me to become a psychotherapist.
Unfortunately for Ram Dass, and for those of us who never actually hung out with him that by 1974 almost every long-haired, acid taking meditator had shorn their hair, replaced love beads with gold-plated razor blades, stepped into high heeled clogs, and given up the Grateful Dead for The BeeGees. Disco culture rapidly took over, and the former, briefly valued earthiness was supplanted by a clothing-conscious urban culture - the veritable forerunner of hip hop. Tripping around a campfire, or amid Bryce Canyon's 'electric mountains of the moon' was thrown over in the backlash against the late 60s/early 70s by cocaine-fueled greed, lust, materialism and a disavowal of spiritual questing in general. Many of us continued to wear our faded blue jeans and long hair while most of our peers left behind spiritual seeking (and Ram Dass) like a discarded pair of Minnetonka moccasins.
I saw the last vestiges of childhood's innocence leave when making love to one's girlfriend was replaced by promiscuous Quaaluded casual sex through which Herpes and AIDS entered the culture en masse. Chaste lovemaking seemed consonant with a spiritual mindset, but disease and addiction seemed part of the new materialistic gestalt.
How could Ram Dass or any of his students around the US hang in there against the winds of social change? Real spirituality hovers above the cultural fashion, immune from time, and when the wheat was tossed in the air, most of the spiritual questing was just chaff swept away by those winds and very few grains fell to earth to take root as spiritual lives. Lots of young people wore the accoutrements of spiritual traditions, but merely as momentary fashion statements as insignificant as a crucifix in Madonna's earlobe.
I owe Ram Dass quite a lot. My doctoral dissertation was based on a brief paragraph he wrote, and I have used my dissertation model as a soul-guide which emerged from my own soul for a quarter of a century. I think that he still adheres to the deep teachings that took root in him, and his decline in social worth to a shallow and stupid culture really is of no consequence to the few people whose lives were profoundly effected by him. I see Bhagwan Das as part of Ram Dass' own teaching and contribution to those who still hold BE HERE NOW in high regard, and for me, equivalent to the miracle of my first Dick and Jane primer.
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Huehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly
Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,689
Loc: On the Border
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Re: Ever wondered what happened to Bhagavan Das from Be Here Now? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
#6885626 - 05/07/07 05:40 PM (16 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
How could Ram Dass or any of his students around the US hang in there against the winds of social change? Real spirituality hovers above the cultural fashion, immune from time, and when the wheat was tossed in the air, most of the spiritual questing was just chaff swept away by those winds and very few grains fell to earth to take root as spiritual lives. Lots of young people wore the accoutrements of spiritual traditions, but merely as momentary fashion statements as insignificant as a crucifix in Madonna's earlobe.
I have no doubt that many owe Ram Dass a debt of gratitude for the wisdom he imparted during his time. I also understand what you are saying here. The nature of the true spiritual seeker is always TO hang in there. The path is eternal and it transcends time and fashion. Even when all have forgotten it, it is still there.
Quote:
Walking through that door, Outside became nowhere at all. Perhaps the answer's here, not there anymore?
Then in our hearts the light broke through, A path lost for years is there in view. -- The Moody Blues
-------------------- "A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
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TheHateCamel
Research &Development -DBK
Registered: 01/31/03
Posts: 15,738
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Re: Ever wondered what happened to Bhagavan Das from Be Here Now? [Re: dorkus]
#6886740 - 05/07/07 09:50 PM (16 years, 11 months ago) |
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Bhagavan Das aside, this thread is pretty interesting.
It's funny (in some unusual sense of the word) to see folks discussing, or I would go as far as to say arguing about the nature of reality, awareness, an enlightenment in such a condescending manner.
Divine irony?
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CosmicJoke
happy mutant
Registered: 04/05/00
Posts: 10,848
Loc: Portland, OR
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Re: Ever wondered what happened to Bhagavan Das from Be Here Now? [Re: TheHateCamel]
#6887760 - 05/08/07 01:49 AM (16 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
It's funny (in some unusual sense of the word) to see folks discussing, or I would go as far as to say arguing about the nature of reality, awareness, an enlightenment in such a condescending manner.
Hear that, bro.
-------------------- Everything is better than it was the last time. I'm good. If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care. It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence. I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too. If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Ever wondered what happened to Bhagavan Das from Be Here Now? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
#6888317 - 05/08/07 08:57 AM (16 years, 11 months ago) |
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I have no doubt that many owe Ram Dass a debt of gratitude for the wisdom he imparted during his time.
I'm assuming you just said this for laughs.;)
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Huehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly
Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,689
Loc: On the Border
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Re: Ever wondered what happened to Bhagavan Das from Be Here Now? [Re: Icelander]
#6890056 - 05/08/07 05:41 PM (16 years, 11 months ago) |
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My perceptual abilities may not be at their best right now due to illness, but I don't understand your comment. Please explain.
I believe that in his earlier works he had something to say which obviously inspired many people to explore eastern religion, but this same author seems to have lost that inspiration himself. He did not endeavor to keep his works fresh. Hopefully this clarifies my position in case I did not make myself properly clear the first time round.
-------------------- "A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Ever wondered what happened to Bhagavan Das from Be Here Now? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
#6890577 - 05/08/07 07:47 PM (16 years, 11 months ago) |
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Yeah yeah blame it on the cold.
I'm talking about the part about "owing" Dam Rass Gratitude. Sort of joking with you to keep you honest.;)
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Huehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly
Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,689
Loc: On the Border
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Re: Ever wondered what happened to Bhagavan Das from Be Here Now? [Re: Icelander]
#6890649 - 05/08/07 08:02 PM (16 years, 11 months ago) |
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I owe Carlos Castaneda a debt of gratitude for his thoughtful works...just as I owe all others who have enriched my life for doing so...unconditionally...no matter what their reasons were. I salute them all and wish them well. I meant what I said...many lives were enriched by Ram Dass...maybe not mine...but many were. Though I did not share this man's vision I appreciate that many did. One can extend gratitude in ones heart without expectation...even to those they have never met.
-------------------- "A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Ever wondered what happened to Bhagavan Das from Be Here Now? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
#6890666 - 05/08/07 08:05 PM (16 years, 11 months ago) |
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I don't "owe" any man anything. I give it freely or not at all.
This may all just be semantics.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Silversoul
Rhizome
Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: Ever wondered what happened to Bhagavan Das from Be Here Now? [Re: Icelander]
#6890677 - 05/08/07 08:07 PM (16 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said: This may all just be semantics.
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Huehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly
Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,689
Loc: On the Border
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Re: Ever wondered what happened to Bhagavan Das from Be Here Now? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
#6890679 - 05/08/07 08:07 PM (16 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Warrior travelers don't leave any debts unpaid -- Don Juan
-------------------- "A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Ever wondered what happened to Bhagavan Das from Be Here Now? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
#6890773 - 05/08/07 08:26 PM (16 years, 11 months ago) |
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I think he was talking about the twenty bucks he borrowed.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Huehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly
Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,689
Loc: On the Border
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Re: Ever wondered what happened to Bhagavan Das from Be Here Now? [Re: Icelander]
#6890855 - 05/08/07 08:42 PM (16 years, 11 months ago) |
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I don't think so....I think he was talking about the sort of "debt" I discussed...explicitly.
-------------------- "A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Ever wondered what happened to Bhagavan Das from Be Here Now? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
#6890923 - 05/08/07 08:56 PM (16 years, 11 months ago) |
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I know. I was joking.
Maybe we do owe a debt then. But we pay it for personal reasons. I don't want any debt but cashola repaid to me. I repay "debts" because it would feel good to me and not because I owe. That's why I said this may be all semantics.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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