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 Sinbad
Living TheMoment
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 What is Ego? 
#3543760 - 12/26/04 06:25 AM (19 years, 3 months ago) |
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Various cultures and tradtions around the world, have different views on what ego is, the tibetans say the ego is "anything extra added to what is", A quick google serach brings many differing definitions. What is your view?
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Edited by Sinbad (10/31/07 09:55 PM)
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 Gomp
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 Re: What is Ego [Re: Sinbad]
#3543768 - 12/26/04 06:47 AM (19 years, 3 months ago) |
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One of my views could be the following,
Ego is the self, especially as distinct from the world and other selves.
like another dimension, and then keep in mind i.e. sound is an dimension to.
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redgreenvines
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Re: What is Ego [Re: Sinbad]
#3543770 - 12/26/04 06:50 AM (19 years, 3 months ago) |
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this tibetan definintion is pretty good.
we experience and then "express a response" - this is the "anything extra added to what is"
the routines that comprise this "expressed response" are the ego &
they include:
1. routines to detect presense or absense of benefit or danger
2. routines to elicit environmental reactions to better detect benefit or threat
3. attraction and revulsion responses
I call these routines masks:
the first is like the eye slots - it is the perception filters, and the second is the thing we express (on the face or body position or just words or even thoughts) the second impacts on our environment and then we apply more of #1. based upon the results of detections more of #2 etc. and then #3. movement.
in this way we add extra to what is naked unfoldment of ongoing creation.
and
as it is a natural response and built in structure it is part of the unfoldment of ongoing creation.
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Gomp
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another,
Preoccupation with one's own well-being and interests, usually accompanied by an inflated sense of self-importance.
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Gomp
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Re: What is Ego [Re: Gomp]
#3543777 - 12/26/04 06:57 AM (19 years, 3 months ago) |
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and some latine :P nice site BTW :P http://cawley.archives.nd.edu/cgi-bin/lookit.pl?latin=%2B-
ego
egelidus : thawed, lukewarm, tepid.
egenus : in want of, in need of, destitute.
egeo : to need, lack, want, be without.
ego : I, self.
egredior : egressus : to go out, leave, depart, exit.
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Andante
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Re: What is Ego [Re: Gomp]
#3543778 - 12/26/04 06:59 AM (19 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Gomp said:
One of my views could be the following,
Ego is the self, especially as distinct from the world and other selves.
Where do you, then, begin and where do you end? It can't be at your skin as it's very porous. Are the boundaries clearly defined?
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Sinbad
Living TheMoment
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Could you elaborate on what you mean by
"1. routines to detect presense or absense of benefit or danger
2. routines to elicit environmental reactions to better detect benefit or threat
3. attraction and revulsion responses"
To me these seem like pretty vague expressions
My view is the actions of the ego are the compulsive cycles of thinking that we have fixated on the idea of the self. Basically egocentric fixation, the tight fist around the proverbial ballsack  
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Gomp
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Re: What is Ego [Re: Sinbad]
#3543781 - 12/26/04 07:05 AM (19 years, 3 months ago) |
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Where do you, then, begin and where do you end?
Are the boundaries clearly defined?
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you begin, where you end.
-yes- 
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Gomp
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Re: What is Ego [Re: Gomp]
#3543793 - 12/26/04 07:22 AM (19 years, 3 months ago) |
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another :p
look your self deep in your eyes, in a mirror...
look at the reflection of your 'face/self' in you pupil. (like the mirror in the mirror.
there you se your ego.
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redgreenvines
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Re: What is Ego [Re: Sinbad]
#3543794 - 12/26/04 07:22 AM (19 years, 3 months ago) |
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the tibetan statement is simple
that is important as a reference
the brain/mind is an association machine, and with it we remember and master routines (monkey see monkey do etc.)
we encorporate these collected routines into our library (collective unconscious)
1. routines of identification (monkey see)
2. routines of expression (monkey do)
3. pick next routine from collection
if the results of these masks is positive we indulge more antics otherwise to save our skin we hustle to another stage or arena.
the ego is the set of monkey-routines that are added to the basic experience.
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Edited by redgreenvines (12/26/04 07:22 AM)
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MarkostheGnostic
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Re: What is Ego? [Re: Sinbad]
#3543880 - 12/26/04 09:42 AM (19 years, 3 months ago) |
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I agree with what you said, and I agree with Gomp as well. The word "Ego" was introduced into popular usage by Sigmund Freud over a century ago and permeated Western psychology thereafter. It is the limited perspective held by each individual. Only Transpersonal Psychologies hold that underneath the limited and embodied sense of 'I-ness' is the Ground of Being - Awareness Itself - that we all participate in. Ego informs us constantly that awareness, experience, is our experience. This reminds me of a childhood TV program in which a mermaid under the sea had a goldfish which stayed in a glass fish bowl. The bowl was open making the water in the bowl connected to the entire ocean, but the goldfish remained within the bowl. When we physically die, our 'fishbowl,' the limits of our psychosomatic ego will shatter, and only the Ocean of Awareness will remain of us. Our spiritual goal of human development is to experience this reality while yet alive: 1) to dispel our fear of death and 2) to share this Truth with others from our genuine experience of this Truth, not mere words.
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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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Sinbad
Living TheMoment
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Horay,  MarkostheGnostic has hit the nail on the head, Nice one  . As i have said on other threads, i really disagree completely with just about everything freud says. He may be worshipped and respected in many psycological fields, but personally i think his head spent a considerable ammount of time up his  ,  he he. Nah i love the guy really 
Well ive only been posting on this forum for a few days, and i am thrilled at the quality of many of the posts here. i think i may stay.
Respect
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Frog
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Re: What is Ego? [Re: Sinbad]
#3544370 - 12/26/04 02:20 PM (19 years, 3 months ago) |
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To no one and any one in particular:
Freud coined the term, but we aren't necessarily referring to Freud's definition when we use it?
I just need to understand this. If we use any one's definition of ego when we use the term, it's going to be very difficult to have a discussion.
It's like using different definitions of the word "wind", or something.
Or maybe someone can explain to me why we can use definitions to describe what the word "ego" means.
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The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire. -Teilard
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Frog
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Re: What is Ego? [Re: Frog]
#3544597 - 12/26/04 04:04 PM (19 years, 3 months ago) |
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Guess I'm going to try to answer my own question here.
"Nigel, I don?t know that much about Freud although I have lain on a few couches. However, my trusty dictionaries tell me that ALTER EGO was first used in English print in 1537 and that it was a Latin phrase used by Cicero (Roman statesman, orator, and writer, 106?43 B.C.,). In ?De Amicitia? (or ?Laelius: On Friendship?), written around 44 B.C.E., Cicero describes a friend as an ?alter ego? or another self, . . . In Latin ?alter? means other (of two) and ?ego? means ?I.? Thus it literally means ?other I,? or second or other self, and it represents a person?s secondary or alternative personality, or a ?trusted friend.? The Greeks have their ?allos ego,? but I couldn?t determine if that was a phrase used in ancient times.
"Interestingly enough the word ?ego? was not used in English as a separate word until the 1780s when it became a term in metaphysics for the ?conscious self? as a translation of the German ?das Ich,? the I. And ?ego? was not used in the psychoanalytic sense by Freud until the late 19th century. As far as I could determine (and I didn?t look that hard), Freud didn?t particularly dwell on the ?alter ego,? but he did coin the word ??ber-Ich,? which was translated as the ?suprerego? (the part of the personality representing ?the conscience?)."
http://www.wordwizard.com/clubhouse/founddiscuss1.asp?Num=5938
So the word "ego" preceded Freud, who merely took the word and applied pschoanalytical meaning to it.
I think I'm beginning to understand why there can be various interpretations of what the ego is.
Here is something interesting I found on another site:
WHAT IS " E G O" ?
The LiveReal Quiz
. . . can you take it?
Lots of folks seem to throw around the word "ego" nowadays,
and they seem to know what they're talking about.
But then again, it often seems to us,
your daring, fearless, and occasionally confused LiveReal Agents,
that a lot of the time,
they're actually talking about different things.
- without knowing it.
So we just had to ask . . .
What is "ego"?
Talk about it:
info@LiveReal.com
What Is "Ego"?
(multiple-choice test)
A) It means "I"
B) It's what you're talking about or referring to when you say "I" (like, "I want this, I do that")
C) It's probably your answer to the question "who am I?"
D) "We're all sentenced to solitary confinement inside our own skins." - Tennessee Williams
E) It's your "identity", or who you think you are.
F) It is something close to what we mean when we say somebody has "a big ego": in other words, they see themselves as being something they're really not. It's an inaccurate self-image, a wrong idea of who you actually are.
G) It is the basis of all television, commercials, marketing, salesmanship, politics, economics, and just about everything else.
H) It is, in the field of psychology, a necessary aspect in the growth of your mind and emotions; a product of childhood conditioning; a crucial self-organizing principle of the human personality, the command center of the psyche that coordinates the different aspects of the self, without with it could not function.
I) It is one reason why drugs, alcohol, sex, pornography, bad television, cough syrup, and other things can be so attractive: because they offer a temporary escape from it, whatever it is.
J) It is "the enemy within," the key ingredient to The Problem of Life "the root of all evil, the enemy of a genuine spiritual life."
K) "The Matrix": it is the veil that "has been pulled over your eyes to blind you from the truth . .. . a prison that you cannot smell or taste or touch. A prison for your mind."
L) Freud: it is the agile rider of the two horses of instinct and conscience, negotiating the competing demands of both inner and outer forces.
M) Why does Hannibal Lecter kill? "Because he feels like God. Would you want to give that up?" - from the movie Red Dragon
N) "Dear Police: I Am God." - note written from a sniper who killed many people chosen at random.
O) It is that part of almost every person who wants to be God . . . but isn't.
P) It is that subtle sense of separation that keeps us distant from whatever we love.
Q) William Blake: "If the doors of perception were cleansed everything would appear to man as it is: infinite." (in this case, "ego" is apparently the "door of perception").
R) It is whatever it is that which gets in the way of real happiness
S) "I know what you'd like. Be honest. Generally you'd like to get your own way, get whatever you want, get back at anyone whom you perceive as having crossed you, get your dreams and fantasies to come true right now, get ahead with less sacrifice and effort, and get away with murder (figuratively, I hope) - all without any consequesences or regrets." - Laura Schlessinger
T) ". . . the human face of (that form of) ego is pride; is arrogant self-importance; is narcissistic self-infatuation; is the need to see oneself as being separate at all times, in all places, through all circumstances - and that ego is the unrelenting enemy of all that is truly wholesome in the human experience."
U) "Fear arises in the mind when a sense of being a separate self (in distinction to what is outside of self)
appears in consciousness. For when there is a self, divided from the other, there is an inherent possibility of harm at the hands of that other." V. J. Fedorschak
V) It is a blinding and dulling identification with a separated sense of self, or in other words, a state of being identified with a split-off, separated, unique something.
W) It's a necessary but not sufficient condition for getting through life.
X) It's needed to stave off both psychosis and God.
Y) Ammachi: ("What is ego?") "You are actually asking, what is unreality? But how can unreality be described? What use is there in talking about something that isn't real, that is nonexistent? And how can you speak about that which is real? Amma can only give you a few hints. The mind is the ego. But the ego is a big lie - it is a liar. It is unreal."
Z) A word which is Aramaic is "naphsha", understood as the controlling entity behind the physical, mental, and behaving self." as mentioned in Matthew 10:39: "He who finds his own naphsha shall lose it, but he who loses his own naphsha for my way shall find it."
AA) It's an activity, a verb; something you are actually doing, like folding your arms - and you can stop doing, like unfolding your arms
BB) It is another word for "attachment."
CC) Ernest Becker (in the Pulitzer-Prize-winner The Denial of Death): "Chapter 3: Human Character as a Vital Lie" - "In childhood we see the struggle for self-esteem at its least disguised. The child is unashamed about what he needs and wants most . . .. the prerogatives of limitless self-extension, what we might call "cosmic significance" . . . the heart of the creature: the desire to stand out, to be the one in creation . . . who has to feel himself an object of primary value: first in the universe, representing in himself all of life. This is the reason for the daily and usual excruciating struggle with siblings . . ."
DD) "The barrier between the individual soul and the Supreme Soul is the ego, the ever present enemy. It manifests as a feeling of separateness." (Yoga Teacher) Swami Vishnu-Devananda
EE) "Authentic (practice) paradoxically demands a mature personality with a strong ego." Georg Feuerstein
FF) It is a "self-contraction" - Adi Da
GG) "To define is to exclude and negate." - Jose Ortega y Gasset
HH) ". .. . the agonized ego is a ring of defense around nothing." - Alan Watts
II) "Ego is the human soul wrapped in mental matter and separated." - Torkom Saraydarian
JJ) It is what gets in the way of experiencing happiness; so when "it" is absent, happiness is experienced.
KK) It is what gets in the way of experiencing love; so when "it" is absent, love is experienced.
LL) It is what gets in the way of experiencing God; so when "it" is absent, God is experienced.
MM) It is the deeply buried but ever-present intuition that you are the center of the universe that gives rise to feelings and beliefs in one's uniqueness and specialness.
NN) In yoga terminology, it is Ahamkara, "Ego or egotism; literally 'the I-Maker', the state that ascertains 'I know'."
OO) "The image of ourselves that grows out of our time-and-sense-bound consciousness is, in an ultimate sense, unreal. In fact, all of our self-limiting activities grow out of this false picture of ourselves. As a result of this false picture, we postulate a dualistic world of self and other, of things separated and isolated, of pain and struggle, birth and death, killing and being killed. This picture is untrue because it barely scratches the surface. It is like looking at the one-eighth of an iceberg above the water and refusing to acknowledge the seven-eighths underneath. For if we could see beyond the ever-changing forms into the underlying reality, we would realize that fundamentally there is nothing but harmony and unity and that this perfection is no different from the phenomenal world of incessant change and transformation.
Now ego, that shadowy, phantomlike figure with insatiable desires and a lust for dominance, sits astride the senses like some oriental potentate. Or, to change the simile, ego is like a magician carrying up his sleeve the deadly tricks of greed, anger, and wrong thinking. Worse, he is quite capable of rationalizing his actions with an air of sweet reasonableness. This wily and slippery conjurer deludes us into believing we can enjoy the delights of the senses without pain only by delivering ourselves into his hands . . . " - Zen Master Phillip Kapleau
PP) ". . . ambiguity is the basis of our experience and consciousness at all levels. The "oneness" that pervades the ambiguity, making two sides unacceptable and forcing us to choose one of them, is show itself to be ambiguous: while the most fundamental ambiguity is shown to have as one of its faces the fact that there is no ambiguity. This, we will show, is the ultimate irony of life .. . . Human history - social, political, and cultural - no less than the growth of an individual to maturity could be seen as an attempt to come to terms with an ambiguity that demands an ultimate leap if full maturity is to be attained. Without this leap demanded by life, various kinds of "neurotic" solutions are resorted to . . . (we will) broach this neurosis of human growth and show it to be this abortive attempt to resolve the dilemma of existence within existence that creates what is called the ego. Ego is seen to be an illicit union of "uniqueness," "the center," and the "word." The ego is a metaphor for the universe, a metaphor that is taken literally . . . the role played by uniqueness and the center, both "standing for" the fundamental Oneness." - Albert Low
QQ) "The whole development of (ego) is an attempt on our part to shield ourselves from the truth of our insubstantiality." "The source of the effort to confirm our solidity is an uncertainty as to whether or not we exist. Driven by this uncertainty, we seek to prove our own existence by finding a reference point outside ourselves, something with which to have a relationship, something solid to feel separate from." "we become a bundle of tense muscles protecting ourselves." Chogyam Trungpa Rimpoche
RR) "Life seems to consist merely of a series of battles between dualities - good and evil, happiness and sorrow, pleasure and pain - a struggle to pursue one thing and to avoid its opposite . . . this struggle of the opposites is only an illusion resulting from our imprisonment within the psychological ego. It is the ego, the sum total of all our defects, that separates us from our spiritual self and causes all our suffering. The ego ensnares our consciousness - the Divine Spark within each of us - in a web of illusion that prevents us from comprehending our true nature and identity." - Samael Aun Weor
SS) "On the psychological level, the sense of lack and incompleteness is, if anything, even greater than on the physical level. As long as you are identified with the mind, you have an externally derived sense of self. That is to say, you get your sense of who you are from things that ultimately have nothing to do with who you are: your social role, possessions, externl appearance, successes and failures, belief systems, and so on. This false, mind-made self, the ego, feels vulnerable, insecure, and is always seeking new things to identify with to give it a feeling that it exists. But nothing is ever enough to give it lasting fulfillment. Its fear remains; its sense of lack and needineess remains." Eckhart Tolle
TT) Ego is "that emotional and psychological knot in consciousness that is the fundamental cause of the sense of separation from all of life. From the spiritual perspective, this is defined as pride, self-importance, and the narcissistic need to always see oneself as being separate ? separate from others, separate from the world, separate from the whole universe. Ego is a love-denying obsession with separation, narcissism, and self-concern." Andrew Cohen
UU) "Without possessions, success, fame - who are you? You don't know. You are your name, you are your fame, you are your prestige, your power. But other than these, who are you? So this whole possessiveness becomes your identity. It gives you a false sense of being. That's the ego.
Ego is not something mysterious, it is a very simple phenomenon. You don't know who you are, and to live without knowing who you are is impossible. If I don't know who I am, then what am I doing here? Then whatsoever I am doing becomes meaningless. The first and the foremost thing is to know who I am." Osho
VV) All of the above.
WW) None of the above
XX) Some of the above.
YY) Other ________________
What is your answer? ____________________
http://www.livereal.com/psychology_arena/what_is_ego.htm
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The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire. -Teilard
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Sinbad
Living TheMoment
Registered: 12/23/04
Posts: 2,571
Loc: Under The Bodhi Tree
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Re: What is Ego? [Re: Frog]
#3544649 - 12/26/04 04:28 PM (19 years, 3 months ago) |
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Very interesting..
But my intension for this thread was to get peoples own personal views on "what is Ego" not to dicsuss all the differing views in all the different cultures, religions, philosophies, psycologies ect
In my opinion what matters most is ones personal experiences, and views, not what one has assimlilated intellectually from a book or external resource. Although these tools can be helpful guides to discovering the truth, they can also have the opposite effect and block ones own experience, replacing it with artificially conceptualized idea.
In short lets here your view! What do you think, expreience your ego as?
Strange really i was reading my sister's Master's Degree paper the other day and 90% of it was just quotes from other people . It almost makes me want to go out and get a masters myself, i could google a masters easily
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Frog
Warrior
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Posts: 4,284
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Re: What is Ego? [Re: Sinbad]
#3544727 - 12/26/04 04:57 PM (19 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Sinbad said:
But my intension for this thread was to get peoples own personal views on "what is Ego" not to dicsuss all the differing views in all the different cultures, religions, philosophies, psycologies ect
In my opinion what matters most is ones personal experiences, and views, not what one has assimlilated intellectually from a book or external resource. Although these tools can be helpful guides to discovering the truth, they can also have the opposite effect and block ones own experience, replacing it with artificially conceptualized idea.
I understand. I was clearing up my confusion on your thread. My apologies. 
See, the ego discussion keeps coming up, and I am usually confused because of my limited understanding, as it turns out. Because I earlier asked a question about what definition of ego we are using, when I finally did some research and found out that ego means many different things, not just what Freud defined it to be, I thought I'd bring the clarification to this thread, since this is where I asked the question in the first place.
But carry on. I thought the title of this thread was "what is ego" or something like that.
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The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire. -Teilard
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Sinbad
Living TheMoment
Registered: 12/23/04
Posts: 2,571
Loc: Under The Bodhi Tree
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Re: What is Ego? [Re: Frog]
#3544761 - 12/26/04 05:09 PM (19 years, 3 months ago) |
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My apologies also, I wasnt totally clear about the naure of the thread.
Bit weird to be answering your own questions on a forum though? But then again ppl on this forum dont tend to be the sainest of creatures  
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redgreenvines
irregular verb
Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 38,169
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tying up loose ends [Re: Sinbad]
#3545241 - 12/26/04 07:06 PM (19 years, 3 months ago) |
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the nature of the thread
and the nature of ego
can become entangled by "anything extra added to what is"
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kaiowas
lest we baguette
Registered: 07/14/03
Posts: 5,501
Loc: oz
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Re: What is Ego? [Re: Sinbad]
#3545334 - 12/26/04 07:22 PM (19 years, 3 months ago) |
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the ego is like the emotional programming the our minds put on external reality. without a sense of self there aren't many emotions.
paranoid people will often view the world in fear
joyous people will often ntoice the brighter things in life.
the ego is like a mental program that is a result of your experiences as a person.
a person who has been bitten by a dog has a greater chance in fearing or hating dogs than a person who has "owned" one. i think the ego is essential while we were growing up to have and react in ego for our own safety. concepts such as good and bad are created so we would listen when a parent says "no!"
in the picture there is a strobe light with different colored cards to put in front to get different colors.
you could have blue, green or red. is the light that comes out blue? only if you want it to
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Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.
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browndustin
dustybuddy
Registered: 10/03/03
Posts: 2,957
Last seen: 9 years, 11 months
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Re: What is Ego? [Re: kaiowas]
#3545458 - 12/26/04 07:49 PM (19 years, 3 months ago) |
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Familiarity and routine expressions and actions.
First time I completely lost my ego and became aware of it was a disaster. I clung for dear life and couldn't bare the thought of losing everything I've worked so hard to build. Once I came down, euphoria set in, my mind was clear and I began meditating for hours on end. I looked at it from another perspective and thought damn, if only I had taken advantage of the situation I could have learned so much, rather than letting myself become so scared. Oh well, still the best ego loss experience I've had in my life. 
I can't say for sure if I think an ego's a particularly good or bad thing. I definitely think that like a snake, it's something that needs to be shed every once in a while. Bad analogy but it's hard to explain.
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When the stress burns my brain it's like acid raindrops
maryjane is the only thing that makes the pain stop
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