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Ego
    #2630839 -

I'd like to hear everyone's thoughts on just what the ego is. Is it something that should be overcome or embraced? Why?

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Re: Ego [Re: Lux]
    #2630924 -

I think there are many different different definitions of the ego that people use, first off, and I think it really causes a lot of trouble in discussion.

Myself, what I consider to be the ego is the set of programs in our mind that have the purpose of protecting our individual perspective, basically our survival. Some people consider the ego to be the individual perspective itself, and I don't see that as true: the individual perspective is the individual perspective; the ego is the mental programming out to protect and continue on the individual perspective. :grin:

The ego is basically a left over from our days of being unaware. It is a program that is designed to identify threats in our surroundings and force ourself to take the programmed action that it believes should be taken to ensure that we will make it out of the situation alive. It does this by flooding us with a strong negative emotion.

I believe this comes from our childhood.. being slapped on the ass produces an unwanted sensation, and the association is formed linking that unwanted sensation to the action we were taking when we were picked up and slapped on the ass.  :smirk:

I also think that it is necessary to be raised this way, there is a period of time where we cannot think and judge for ourselves, and we need a temporary mode of thinking that will ensure that we can survive to the point where we can think on our own.

Most people never really break out of the old way of thinking, however, at least to some degree. The ego basically gets more advanced and complex, and life becomes a constant, grueling game where we are led by our emotions. Our ego is a paranoid fuck!  :evil:

The point is, any function the ego provides can be more effectively managed with a free, higher conscious mind. The ego should only have power over the way we act in an actual, immediate threat on our lives. If we aren't in that kind of situation, the ego has no jurisdiction over directing our actions and creating how we feel, and any negative emotion experienced is a direct sign towards a flaw in our programming, where the ego is trying to exercise power in an area it should not be allowed to.

The ego should be embraced, when it is acting when it should, which hopefully, the situation for it to act never comes up. :lol: In any other case, put that fucker in its damned place! Don't let it push you around! You are free to act and think as you choose! Your ego only has as much power as you give it. Knock it the fuck out!  :shocked: :grin:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Re: Ego [Re: fireworks_god]
    #2630992 -

Haha, as if I wrote it myself... I completely agree with you, especially about there being many different definitions of ego, but I think that sometimes there may be very different definitions which lead to the same end result which is why I want to explore this.

I'm not so sure the ego will ever be permanently shut off, in fact we should keep with us the knowledge that it will never go away but at the same time strive to make it go away. As long as we are aware of it and don't mindlessly follow it though, I think that's enough for our day-to-day needs.

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Re: Ego [Re: Lux]
    #2631008 -

whether "ego" is a societally induced fiction, a useful tool, a freudian aspect of every human's psychological makeup, an ever-changing sense of "center", or the true foundation of the "observer" --- it is not all there is to a person...


--------------------
old enough to know better
not old enough to care

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Re: Ego [Re: gnrm23]
    #2631026 -

Oh I couldn't agree more. I would go as far as to say(and I have, actually) that it is a foreign, instilled part of ourselves which really can be seen to not even be ourselves. Unfortunately, this which has become a part of ourselves is where the vast majority of people today function from.

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Re: Ego [Re: Lux]
    #2631113 -

The great red mushroom spoke to me and said:

"Your ego, is everything you are related to, all good and bad things that have to do with you.
In order to gain power, you must leave everything.....

You must die. Say goodbye and  stop spending all of your energy in protecting your threatened ass...

You have nothing to be afraid now.

You are free"

Ego is not only a negative emotion. It also the really cool proud feeling that you feel when you rock.

In order to stop this useless protection of virtually nothing (you) we must <<kill>> our self because we have builded everything around it.

As soon as you die with your own will (thats how it feels like)  you redirect the energy that was consumed by your ego, to the outer world, you get to remember that we re all one. 

Feel the cosmic love 

I m about to have an orgasm  :crazy2:


--------------------
The Source Of The Force
Is The Power Of The Mind

"if you don't like what you're doing, you can always pick up your needle and move to another groove." - timothy leary"
Anno: "-I can do anything with those clouds!"
Annos Tek



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Re: Ego [Re: Sterile]
    #2631136 -

:yesnod:

So many ways of saying the same thing but each little path to the same conclusions brings it's own insight.

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Re: Ego [Re: Lux]
    #2631166 -

Id, ego and superego were all fictive inventions of a discredited fool. His nonsense set the field of psychology and back 50 years. Every other meanings you wish to ascribe to the word ego can be covered adequately by the concept of self. Avoid the term completely, it has no referent in the real world


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Re: Ego [Re: zappaisgod]
    #2631179 -

I think the term is essential. The way I make reference to it is an aspect of the self, and yes to modern man as far as they are concerned it IS the self. I'm not a student of psychology so I'm not necessarily using it in the same regard that psychology may give it although I suspect it could be worded similarly. Regardless, it has been proven essential to myself in distinguishing aspects of the self, although your view is most definitely appreciated.

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Re: Ego [Re: Lux]
    #2631613 -

I did appreciate zappaisgod's point in this way. If Freud never made up the distinctions of the self, imagine how different it would be.

Do you know what term we would be left with to describe people who are ussually called egoic? CONFIDENT. We all love and appreciate the virtue of confidence. We express a beleif in ourself and abilities through what we call confidence. Condifence is great and allows for us to experience the potential of our greatness.

Then Freud comes along and says there's this thing called Ego and it is a false ideology of who we think we are. So NOW, when people don't beleive in others as the way they beleive in themselves they have a new word to put them down with. They say, "You have a big ego" and with one magic fell swoop it is meant to completely disacknowledge the vailidity of a persons greatness and abilities ans sense of self worth. People who want to put other people down are feeling down on themselevs.

Perhaps Frued had insecurities and a low self esteem and felt bitter so he invented this ideology with which to cut everyone down to shreds and his emotional size. From this perspective, I like what Zap said!

One could say the ego is the idea one has of themselves. Who is to say that idea is false or bad or negative? If Barbara Striesand said, "I am a great singer"  would she have an over inflated ego with a false sense of her singing abilities? I mean, give me a break. :lol: Should Barbara Striesand have not given way to her gifts and abilities and confidently brought them to world to share it for the sake of comforting the insecurities of those who think they sing lousy? Thats just stupidness! people love her who can't sing like her because when they here her music, they arn't thinking "she sings better then me that BITCH!" (maybe someone women in her line of work do :lol:) I would say most people who enjoy her music do because they are feeling along with the emotion she expresses through song and can relate and resonate with the essense of that emotion and sentiment expressed through words and it feels good to them. Are people who love and appreciate the music of a great artist being naive and gullible for it? That would be an assinine assumption and judgment made by an ass.

I really appreciated what Fire said because I beleive it true that reactions to threatening environments is the result of old programming hard wired into the human form to insure our survival when we decided to experience with an extreme lack of awareness. You know what's going on Fire!

That leads into my appreciating what Lux is saying. As we become more aware of who we are beyond our ego identities as humans we are slowly reprograming that old crusty hardwiring that tells us we have something to be afraid of. If you believe in an ominipotent supreme intelligence, do you think in it's full awareness it feels or thinks it has anything to be afraid of? of course not. It knows there is all it is and that it cannot be destroyed because there is nothing else to destroy it and in it's sublime love and appreciation for it's existance it would never do such a thing.

Like Lux says, the ego can be seen as a diservice to the fullfillment of our full potential and self realization here as we are expressing and experiencing spirit through human form. If we let our EGO's (limited idea of self) tell us we are "only so and so born here, into this family, with accredidations from this school, and experience with these job titles etc"  we really limit ourselves and our experience because we are so much more then our experiences here in this one life as Joe Blow. Maybe people want a severly limited and defined experience and the Ego will provide one.

maybe some people want a very EXPANSIVE experience and the ego can privide that as well.

I've always seen the ego as tool YOU can use. Most people let it use them. We are who we are. Why does expanding the sense of self have to be termed as one being "over inflated" with a sense of who they are like its a deragatory thing. We are limitless beings as individuations of creator source-the all that is. Just because our physical bodies have limitations doesn't mean our minds and emotions have to be limited by the body.

Gnrm, I really appreciated what you said- we are so much more then ego defintions and you mentioned it being a tool and we can use it to undefine ourselves as well.

Andprops to the great red mushroom! :lol: That was cool!

Love,
Cindy

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Re: Ego [Re: zappaisgod]
    #2631650 -

Freud was wrong about a lot of things, but I think it's a big stretch to say that he set the field of psychology back 50 years. He advanced the field quite a bit, and as many things as he may have been wrong about, he was right about a lot of other things.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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Re: Ego [Re: silversoul7]
    #2631734 -

for me the ego is anything that seeks it's own intrest rather than that of another "i" want,


--------------------
"Well the first days are the hardest days." When life looks like easy street there is danger at your door.....

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Re: Ego [Re: peleg]
    #2631951 -

I resonate with that understanding too peleg.

Ideologies of spirituism teach that the EGO serves itself and that one removed from their ego seeks to serve others. The thing I keep in mind is this:

self service isn't anymore wrong then service to others is right. That keeps me from becoming self rightious. we are allowed to explore the self through the tool of the ego. It's okay in the big scheme of things.


Thanks for adding that to this cuz it belongs here.

Love,
Cindy

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Re: Ego [Re: Lux]
    #2631961 -

Our ego is that which separates us from everything else. This is why a feeling of Oneness with the universe accompanies ego loss.

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Re: Ego [Re: silversoul7]
    #2632037 -

I can't think of one thing Fraud was right about and I have a degree in psychology. My opinion is that by forsaking any rigorous scientific study of the mind and directing the field into the realm of introspection and anecdote 50 years of study were wasted. The study of psychology did not get back on a scientific track until B.F. Skinner in the 50s. Much has been accomplished since but even into the 70s the Freudian-type psychotherapists were far too influential. I became so totally disheartened by the state of the field that I chose not to continue. I didn't think the people in it were scientists. It is much further along now than I had ever hoped. At any rate, if anyone here can tell me one single thing that Fraud said that was correct please let me know.

Hey cosmicchic, I got another word for people currently called egoic. It's obnoxious. In extreme cases it's assholic (my own invention)


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Re: Ego [Re: zappaisgod]
    #2632197 -

He He  zappa!

Yes, those words can replace the word egoic as well and probaly many more if we think about it.

I have to ask, was fraud a typo for Freud or was it intended? Thats funny!:lol:

Love,
cindy

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Re: Ego [Re: cosmicchic]
    #2632310 -

Intentional


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Re: Ego [Re: Lux]
    #2632383 -

dr freud: "it's only a theory"
:wink:


--------------------
old enough to know better
not old enough to care

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Re: Ego [Re: Lux]
    #2632393 -

for some fascinating reading, check out damn' near anything by dr stan grof....


--------------------
old enough to know better
not old enough to care

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Re: Ego [Re: Lux]
    #2634000 -

to me the ego is what causes us to feel depressed and afraid. it is where fear and pain stem from. It also creates the illusion of time and space. So if i call you a cock sucker, and you are offended, it is your ego that is actually offended. If somebody dies and you are down and depressed about it, it is your ego bringing you down. you think that the person has left you, but they did not. ego creates space, and u think they are wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyy far away from you, but they are not. they are right there with you always.

and like somebody else said, it is also the source of pride. It is your ego that makes you feel like you are the shit above everybody else. We are all equal no matter who we are or what we do, and to think your any cooler is silly. you can shine, but dont bring people down by thinking your the shit. like you know, dissing people, cutting them down to make yourself feel better....thats cheap as fuck, and your just feeding your ego making yourself an even bigger asshole.

i see it as there are 2 main things that everything stems from. Love and Fear. Love coming from your heart, and Fear coming from your ego.

anytime your pissed of, or hurting of depression, its fear....but of WHAT? anytime your trying to bring another down, it is done out of fear, but of WHAT? only you know.

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Re: Ego [Re: fireworks_god]
    #2634060 -

basically what fireworks said!

I think of the ego as also a tool we can use to make ourselves happier. If viewed one way we can see that we can USE the ego, because the ego tells us what we think is wrong, and then we feel an negative serperating emotion as a result.  it's like the man who rigns the church bells, the bell sound itself is the negative emotion while the guy ringing the bell is the ego.  the bell sounds off quite a lot in our lifetime, but are we listening???  when we listen our awareness increases and so our journey to a higher plane of thinking will start.

let's start listening....  :grin:


--------------------
Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.

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Re: Ego [Re: kaiowas]
    #2634524 -

yes, the ego can be a tool. but it can destroy you too if it is not balanced.

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Re: Ego [Re: ]
    #2634575 -

but ehh, i dont know man, how exactly are you percieving ego?

are you saying when a little kid goes to steal something, that feeling that tells him no its not right to do, its their ego? because i personally believe it is the ego that causes him to want to steal, and it is the heart that tells him it is wrong to steal. same understanding, but using different words to say same thing.

but your ego is good for survival i agree, for like keeping people that hurt you from hurting you again, because you will know better than to trust them when u know they can not be trusted, so you keep them at bay, even though you can still love them, you just cant let them hurt you again.

fuck me once, shame on you. fuck me twice, shame on me.

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Re: Ego [Re: ]
    #2634652 -

The ego isn't normatively bad or selfish, nor is the "heart" as you call capable of exerting a cathartic pull.

I will try to be as diplomatic as I can about this...

Alot of people are misunderstanding ego, heart, mind, self and defining it through social norms, not looking at the real science and psychology behind the issue. No, the heart doesn't think. No, there is no formal ego which is driving people to be selfish or not selfish. The "ego" does not exist as a selective, self aware independent "self." The human "self" could best be defined as having personalities...we have different understandings and personalities that shift and are brought up under different circumstances, while simultaenously being the same thing throughout in terms of basic cognitive functions.

There are varying levels of neuropathways which are accessed and active during diferent activies, in different environments, etc. There are also neural patterns which are always active, such as visual and auditory perception, memory synapses, etc. The self is a shifting and changing entity with a huge number of processes, a grand system constantly creating and blazing new neural networks.

The ego is an outdated freudian concept that relies heavily on psychodynamic forces which really do not exist, and which have be disproven.

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Re: Ego [Re: ]
    #2634675 -

"but your ego is good for survival i agree, for like keeping people that hurt you from hurting you again, because you will know better than to trust them when u know they can not be trusted, so you keep them at bay, even though you can still love them, you just cant let them hurt you again."


Again, you are oversimplfying a very complex set of networks that are interacting to produce the effect that you are allocating to "ego." On a basic level, the mechanisms involved in this process that you have described above are first,

Memory, in which the experiences of someone "cheating" on you are encoded.

and then

Cognitive Patterning
Through memory you recognize a pattern associated with one individual who you recognize as capable of furthering the pattern which you deem harmful.

etc, etc.

Even within those two small steps, lay a huge number of other processes that are occuring within the human mind. There is no ego that is driving the individual towards or away from some moral goodness. Remember, morals have always been defined by the societies living with them, and are a product of the collective will. Thus to assume that the 'ego' somehow is divinely connected to this sense of goodness or badness is incorrect. It is the individuals understanding of the social norms that causes them to conform or rebel against standing rules and regulations regarding behavoir, thought, etc.

You are yourself, no demon, or ego exists in you that isn't purely of yourself. No ego is moving in some direction other than as a result of thoughts, notions, understandings, experiences of you, the self.

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Re: Ego [Re: Lux]
    #2634680 -

The 'ego' is a word originally used by Freud to define the center of consciousness, but of course the concept of a separate and individual point of view is what the ego has meant at least since the ancient Hindu writings of the Rig Veda.

Since the ego is a non-substantial reality, a reality with no substance or extension in space-time, it is best discussed by way of metaphor. One metaphor that I like is the notion of the waves in the Ocean. The Ocean is the 'Ocean of consciousness' - infinite, and egos are like waves which are born of the ocean, grow in size, travel for a while, peak and dissipate (die). We can go through life thinking that we are individual waves, thus identifying ourselves with our particular form (I am 'me' and not you) or we can go through life increasingly disidentiying ourselves with the particularities of our 'distinct' wave-ego, and increasingly identifying ourselves with the Ocean. This is the ego-Self axis in Jungian terms, the human-God relationship in religion, the individuality-Universality paradox in philosophical terminology.

Jesus spoke in parables and metaphors for a very good reason. These soul-spirit or psychospiritual realities are non-quantifiable, non-material and quite abstract. We experience them, but they are 'Mercurial' - ungraspable as spilled Mercury to use an Alchemical metaphor. Certain personality types just can't tolerate such 'fuzzy' thinking - the Jungian 'Sensate' types - but no matter what, it is difficult to deny one's awareness of 'being.' Descartes said "I think, therefore I am," which identifies the Cartesian intellect as one's identity. More essentially than thought is 'Being,' the Name of GOD - GOD's Essence - the 'Ocean' - is called ''I AM" in the Bible. The "I AM THAT I AM" of the 'Eheh Asher Eyeh' is more accurately rendered "I WILL BE WHAT I WILL BE'' in Hebrew, but the essence of Absolute Being - GOD (the Ocean) and our relative beings (waves) is still derivative of 'I' - 'Eye' - 'Aye.'

Paradox. I-not I. I-Thou. We are awareness. We seek awareness of our most Real Selves, not our mundane, relative selves (egos). We seek the Transcendental Ego - GOD. Nothing less is fulfilling but to be filled with GOD, til that which is filled is indistinguishable from That which fills us.

"The eye through which I see GOD, is the eye through which GOD sees me." - Meister Eckhardt


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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Re: Ego [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #2634713 -

word

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Re: Ego [Re: ParabolaChair]
    #2634772 -

Quote:
Again, you are oversimplfying a very complex set of networks that are interacting to produce the effect that you are allocating to "ego." On a basic level, the mechanisms involved in this process that you have described above are first,

Memory, in which the experiences of someone "cheating" on you are encoded.

and then

Cognitive Patterning
Through memory you recognize a pattern associated with one individual who you recognize as capable of furthering the pattern which you deem harmful.



how is this not triggered by fear? prove me wrong here.

its not me oversimplifying anything, its you overcomplicating everything.

Quote:
Even within those two small steps, lay a huge number of other processes that are occuring within the human mind. There is no ego that is driving the individual towards or away from some moral goodness. Remember, morals have always been defined by the societies living with them, and are a product of the collective will.


the ego does not drive one, NO. their choices do. and most of us go with aspects of the ego, instead of listen to our hearts, when i say heart i am talking about god, i am talking about LOVE. I understand humans go through shit that causes them to fear. But it is not like just because, for example, i have a run in with a group of teens with baggy pants and hats pimped to the side that beat my ass down that i should fear everyone with that appearance. This is a fear that needs to be delt with. To perceive through the eyes of love can help a person realize that not everyone is like that group that dresses in that manner. the only complex thing i see about this is how complex we make the fear or what the fear is arising from. the reason is clear, FEAR. the answer is also clear, LOVE.

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Re: Ego [Re: ]
    #2635042 -

I agree with you that a certain degree of "fear" causes certain misunderstandings within individuals. I'm disagreeing with your notion of an "ego" which you are somehow juxtaposing with "heart." The human being is self, there is no macro-level seperation within the "self" that facilitate "love" and "fear" in the human mind, they are all neuro-chemical states that interact and cause the "self" to exist as we experience it.

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Re: Ego [Re: ParabolaChair]
    #2635270 -

ooooooh, thats the problem rigth there man, you dont believe we have a spirit. my whole logic is based on that we are a spiritual being having a human experience.

and our spirit is pure love, we only get angry because we are reaching out for love, we only get down because we are in need of love. love is the answer to our problems.

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Re: Ego [Re: ParabolaChair]
    #2635343 -

"It would be possible to describe everything scientifically, but it would make no sense; it would be without meaning, as if you described a Beethoven symphony as a variation of wave pressure." -- Albert Einstein

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Re: Ego [Re: Lux]
    #2635449 -

I agree, science isn't everything and meaning is very important...but in dealing with a concept such as an ego, why begin to investigate it unless you are interested in fully understanding and dissecting it...even it it proves to disprove...

In the same way there meaning is important, so the process through which we create those meanings, and the processes that drive that very creation...

imho :wink:

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Re: Ego [Re: ParabolaChair]
    #2635510 -

Our ego is the dualistic part of our mind that divides "me" from "them".

Other parts of the mind build a foundation of social structure, moral structure, emotions, and beliefs upon this rocky foundation of dualistic thought. I think most wrongs can be traced back to their dualistic roots.
"I killed him, because he broke my heart!"
"We cannot tolerate gay marriage because the homosexual agenda is to destroy the moral fabric and Christian upbringing of our society!"

Edit: To use Kottonmouth's example, the little kid wants to steal because they have nice things, and it is not fair that he does not have nice things, so it is OK for him to steal it.

Our other mental faculties can exist independent of ego, but generally, they are wholly subverted by, built upon, and catering to the ego.


--------------------
"I'm afraid of losing my obscurity. Genuineness only thrives in the dark. Like celery."
- Aldous Huxley

Edited by TinTree (05/04/04 01:25 AM)

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Re: Ego [Re: ParabolaChair]
    #2635568 -

Oh I'm not saying your view is wrong or right or not appreciated or not wanted....simply a quote that came to mind.

Let me add my understanding of ego...

To me, ego is that which has been instilled in us by our society. It has BECOME a part of ourselves and most of us remain 'asleep' functioning solely from this one, foreign aspect of ourselves. The internal dialogue, or that constant chattering in our mind is that foreign, instilled aspect of ourselves telling us how to act, almost mechanically. This internal dialogue is the product of the ego, in the way that I assign value to the word. It is what the average man would most readily associate with himself, with his being. People fail to notice, though, that it's really not even ourselves and once we shed that which has become a part of ourselves we see how it really is the only thing separating all of us, as TinTree and others have already described.

It is from functioning solely from this aspect of ourselves where we have very little responsibility over ourselves. No one can do anything to anyone, but the ego tells us otherwise through the internal dialogue. If you want to take more of a psychological approach to it you could basically say that it is the product of learning throughout your life how to react to certain actions from our society and surroundings.

While I'm at the Einstein quotes, here's one having to do with what I'm talking about: "Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen." -- Albert Einstein

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Re: Ego [Re: Lux]
    #2635895 -

i agree and disagree.  i think that we were born with egos and society simply fed it lots of feul, enough for it to generate its own fuel itself with what it has picked up.  so to speak.  other than that i agree that society is a reason why many of us have such huge egos blocking us from seeing reality.

Ever seen a small child with no prior influences of selfishness grab his toy from another child?  where did that come from?  If you ask the child nicely, "can so and so please play with your toy?", the kid will(i bet you.) be like "yeah :laugh:" cuz all they need is love.  I mean the kid only snags his toy away because he is scared he wont get it back, its fear.  treat that up with some love and BOOM. its all good.

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Re: Ego [Re: ]
    #2636247 -

Love IS the answer to everything.

Ego is simply Choice. Think of all the things that make you, you. The foods you like, the music you listen to, people you associate with, etc.. Everything you are came down to a choice at some point or another, even the way we present ourselves physically. Add all these choices thus far, and you have what you call an Ego.

The Ego is more or less, a fallacy. We identify with inanimate objects and ideas and conform to think "This is what I like, this is who I am." This is why a full blown Mushroom trip is too much for some people, it reduces ALL of us to the lowest common denominator: no Ego. Many people aren't comfortable with themselves enough to experience such an existance of one without Ego.

But the Ego is required for us, it maintains habit and ritual. If we never had an Ego, we would probably sit around staring slack jawed at the walls and drooling. The Ego has been placed here for our use, to identify with the world around us and use the Ego to expose how to make the world a better place. But people have become corrupt, and neglect the true reason we are here, which was mentioned by someone already: love.

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Re: Ego [Re: ParabolaChair]
    #2636250 -

ParabolaChair said:
I agree with you that a certain degree of "fear" causes certain misunderstandings within individuals. I'm disagreeing with your notion of an "ego" which you are somehow juxtaposing with "heart." The human being is self, there is no macro-level seperation within the "self" that facilitate "love" and "fear" in the human mind, they are all neuro-chemical states that interact and cause the "self" to exist as we experience it.


You're only speaking from a physical perspective. If you study your brain, and conciousness more for that matter, you'll see that we don't even know why those neuro-chemical states exist or interact the way they do. It's studies like this that Spirituality MUST be fused with Science, as they go hand in hand.

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Re: Ego [Re: EgoTripping]
    #2636326 -

Very well put explanation of the ego! I agree that it is important that we are born with an ego but I believe the struggle to be free of it, in the sense that we aren't slaves to it, is just as important. It's the only true freedom we have.

We are at a point where science and spirituality are starting to become one again. I like to think of spirituality as a science not yet understood.

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Re: Ego [Re: ]
    #2636355 -

So when a person has two separate thoughts on the same subject, and can't make up their mind, is this the ego arguing with itself or the ego arguing with some form of the self ? or maybe something entirely different altogether...

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Re: Ego [Re: DankBluntZ]
    #2636364 -

the ego to me is what puts the emotional emphasis that the rational mind picks up on the external world.  it is partly the source of how we react when situations arise.  our internal programming is dictated by what the ego wants to let in, and what the ego wants to ignore.  It is the guard of the sense of self so we can survive when needed.  our ego is not our essential nautre, that is, it isn't what we essentially are.  it's like a tool that we can use to either be happy, or be afraid.  kind of a lame description, but that's all I can think of right now :smile:


--------------------
Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.

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Re: Ego [Re: kaiowas]
    #2636371 -

Sure, you could say it's a tool but the problem is that the majority of people are simply unaware that they function completely from this one aspect of the self, therefore what people perceive to be their freewill can actually be seen to be their prison. How can one escape from prison if they aren't even aware that they are in it?

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Re: Ego [Re: DankBluntZ]
    #2636413 -

Quote:
So when a person has two separate thoughts on the same subject, and can't make up their mind, is this the ego arguing with itself or the ego arguing with some form of the self ? or maybe something entirely different altogether...




it depends what the thought is about. it could be ego arguing ego, or it could be ego arguing heart(love)

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Re: Ego [Re: Lux]
    #2636418 -

"Sure, you could say it's a tool but the problem is that the majority of people are simply unaware that they function completely from this one aspect of the self, therefore what people perceive to be their freewill can actually be seen to be their prison. How can one escape from prison if they aren't even aware that they are in it? "

well I could say it's anything...just a matter of perspective. I just don't see why people are so negative about the ego. if it can be used to see your negative emotions, then it definately can be "referred" to as a "tool" it's just that the society that we grew up in feeds o?n fear rather than love. so where are the boundaries of this prison

just an opinion


--------------------
Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.

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Re: Ego [Re: kaiowas]
    #2636747 -

I just don't see why people are so negative about the ego. if it can be used to see your negative emotions, then it definately can be "referred" to as a "tool"

what if the ego was the cause of these negative emotions and it was something else that shows you the negativity? you speak as if you believe only the ego exsists. and you also have said that the ego is a way to make us happy, but i disagree. only true happiness comes from the heart, from love. to feel high off the egos pride is cheap, and i personally dont consider that real happiness. more like a trick making u think your happy, when u are damn well not.

but this is soley based on my own perspectives.

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Re: Ego [Re: ]
    #2637127 -

what if the ego was the cause of these negative emotions and it was something else that shows you the negativity? you speak as if you believe only the ego exsists. and you also have said that the ego is a way to make us happy, but i disagree. only true happiness comes from the heart, from love.


I think you're misinterpretting what he's saying.

What he is saying is that with the proper "training", a person can learn to use their ego as a tool.

While I understand that you are defending the fact that true happiness comes from the heart (which I agree with, and so does Kaiwos, I can almost guarantee...)

Here is a metaphor:

Let's sat you are a castle.

You have a gigantic stone wall all the way around you, which keeps you safe, but isolates you from all your surroundings.

(stick with me on this, I know it's pretty obvious so far)

Your approach is to knock down the wall (ego), so that you can have free access to all of your surroundings. (love/heart)

But what happens when some bastard (ego, someone else's) comes along and decides to take advantage of your situation? He raids your whole place, just because he can. Because your wall is down.

What Kaiowas is talking about is more like building a super-cool wall that sinks into the ground when not in use.

Not only does it allow you free access to all surroundings (love), but it also allows the ego to continue doing what it was DESIGNED to do: PROTECT US. [edit: to avoid confusion allow me to clarify: the ego protects our physical bodies, that is what I was referring to.]


This might be a weak metaphor, or not even what he meant, but I tried....

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Re: Ego [Re: JacquesCousteau]
    #2637304 -

no that was a perfect example, and i wholly agree  :thumbup:

but really what my point was, was that he said the ego can be a tool used to see the negative emotions in yourself.  but the negative emotions are only there because of the ego creating them in the first place.  So what is goin on with the ego here?

heres me  :confused:

sure the ego can show u the negative, because it is the cause of the negative.  so i guess it just shows you the grip it has on you. what do u do when u realize this?

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Re: Ego [Re: ]
    #2637488 -

Think about it this way...

When one tames their ego, they learn that the "negative emotional baggage" they experience is actually only a product of the ego, as you said.

They learn to move past what their ego produces, and not accept it as something that dictates how "they" feel.

Because they do not allow the ego to directly dictate their emotional state, they are able to "step back" and look at the situation from a distance.

For instance:

If someone makes a rude remark about my hairdo, I can either:

a) React with ego; get irritated or angry.. allow my emotions to be controlled by the ego.

b) React without ego; give the guy a smile and say "that's just like, your opinion man." Thus, I would choose to acknowledge that the ego is the source of the fear I have that somehow allows me to believe my appearance to others matters to me at all.

I choose scenario b. When this guy insults my hair, I will be laughing and happy inside, because I know that he is controlled by his ego and I am not.

Once someone has been convinced that there is more to their own existance than just their ego (for instance, experiencing ego loss via psychedelic drugs and realizing that "you" were still there to experience it) the loss of ego becomes no longer a "life and death" "loss of identity" kind of situation.

It becomes easier to control the ego's "dictate your behavior"isms with the insight that there is something besides the ego that makes up "you". With this insight comes the knowledge that, with the end of ego, does not necessarily come the end of your life experience.

This is using the ego as a tool for "good", as best I can think to explain it.

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Re: Ego [Re: ]
    #2637505 -

sure the ego can show u the negative, because it is the cause of the negative. so i guess it just shows you the grip it has on you. what do u do when u realize this?

It only shows you the negative if YOU have a grip on IT.

If the ego DOES have a grip on you, this means that it DOESN'T show you the negative. Instead, you BECOME the negative. It dictates your emotions for you if you let it. Therefore it becomes "invisible" in the act of losing YOUR grip on it. You have to keep your ego in check, or it eats you alive.

If you allow it to eat you, then it causes negative energy.

If you remain in control of it, then it IDENTIFIES negative energy.

It's the same action being taken by the ego, it's just that if you choose to remain in control of it you keep it from getting to that final step where it goes from "targetting" (identifying) to causing.

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Re: Ego [Re: JacquesCousteau]
    #2637600 -

"It only shows you the negative if YOU have a grip on IT."

this is true

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Re: Ego [Re: JacquesCousteau]
    #2639227 -

Frenchman is the WISE man.

Walls that sink when the nazis retreat. Why not just make the nazis sink into the ground? Then we don't need no stinken walls or dark sarcasm in the classroom. Teachers gotta leave them kids alone.

Ego trippen is what lifes all about here! You all would be so bored if everyone was egoless here! Thats why you love this place! Egos give us our personalities. Rock the Ego and the Vote!

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Re: Ego [Re: ]
    #2640543 -

How would we all be bored without an ego, considering that boredom is a state of mind created by the ego itself? No ego = no emotional demands of what the moment should be = no discontentment or seperation from the moment and the experience offered within.

It isn't about changing the external world so that you can be happy and fufilled. Happiness and peace do not come from the outside situations. Our personality does not come from the ego; conversely, the ego limits our true personalities from showing. The true self lies within. We seperate ourselves from it and we suffer because of it.

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Re: Ego [Re: fireworks_god]
    #2640659 -

I think ego as a word/concept has been so over used, and can describe such a variety of ideas that it has reached the point of being irrelevant...

It seems to me that there are several different definitions of ego being discussed in this thread.


--------------------
Always Smi2le

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Re: Ego [Re: GazzBut]
    #2640675 -

I agree with you, the original point of the thread was to hear everyone's own interpretation of what the ego is.

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