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OfflineScarfmeister
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Registered: 10/31/02
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Whats wrong with ego?
    #3146995 - 09/17/04 05:22 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Whats so bad about ego? The ego gives us a sens of our self's, It grounds us in this world and gives us identity.

People with advanced schizophrenia eventually loses all sens of themselves and their ego, is that a good way to live?
I say embrace yourselves. embrace your ego. Say "I am", "i need" " I WANT". Say it out loud and with pride.

I see you my friends. I see YOU.


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We're the lowest of the low, the scum of the fucking earth!


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Whats wrong with ego? [Re: Scarfmeister] * 1
    #3147119 - 09/17/04 06:21 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

The ego is simply a program concerned with directing our focus between different inputs.

The ego is also responsible for creating the illusion of a seperate self, and with protecting said illusion of self.

The ego certainly isn't anything that needs to be embraced, it definitely needs to be limited, monitored, and controlled for the good of yourself and others.

You are proposing increasing our seperateness from others and our environment, which will just continue to increase suffering for us and others. The ego constructs its understanding of reality, as well as its demands and expectations from reality. This blinds us because reality is far too vast and ever-changing to ever be matched by our understanding of it, much less our expectations of it.

When your ego's demand of reality is not met, you will suffer suffer suffer for it. The ego uses emotion-backed addictions as a means to control you and your actions. But yet you are proposing that we gain our identify and our sense of self from ego? :lol:

Schizophrenia certainly isn't a result of a loss of ego, but rather of an ego so poorly programmed that ones view of reality is completely out of touch with true reality. Its the state of a damaged mind, and an ego that is far too well-defined and short-circuited. Schizophrenia is completely at the opposite end of the spectrum from ego-loss.

The ego is a powerful tool when used correctly, it allows us to direct our focus into different tasks and states of mind, opening a world of human achievement and knowledge. However, the ego was never meant to be the main control center of the mind and of consciousness, and we have all seen the extensive, negative results of it being in control. Most everyone never get to the point where their ego no longer traps their thought and their mind (let's keep in mind, though, that everyone's ego is as unique as each person, and that it can take on innumerable forms and functions).

The ego is merely a computer program meant to unconsciously interpret signals and inputs for our mind: there are several higher centers of consciousness that sit above this and free of this, and an improperly programmed ego with too much power and control of action and thought can prevent us from ever reaching these clearer states of thinking more truely based in reality.

So I say embrace yourselfs, take control of your own life, and live it more effectively, with greater understanding, with more fufillment and peace in the moment. Embrace stripping your ego back down to the low rank it belongs in and keeping it there. I'd rather define my own being, my own self, than to have an out of control mental program known as the ego control, limi, and contaminate the definition of my being and who I am. :smirk:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineStinky
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Registered: 08/31/04
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Re: Whats wrong with ego? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #3147125 - 09/17/04 06:25 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Man, I was going to say something, but now I can't. You said it all perfectly.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Whats wrong with ego? [Re: Stinky]
    #3147144 - 09/17/04 06:39 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Tusen takk. :wink:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineScarfmeister
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Registered: 10/31/02
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Re: Whats wrong with ego? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #3147200 - 09/17/04 07:50 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

I understand what you are saying and i think is a novel aspiration. Though i cant help thinking that you sound a bit schitzophrenic. Thinking of ego as some kind of evil selfserving program you need to flee from.

Here is an intresting quote on the matter : Ego is another term for the conditional mind. It describes the collection of beliefs that make up the idea of a separate ?me.? In truth, however, the ego does not exist. To struggle with the ego is to struggle with an illusion. So the attempt to overcome the ego only serves to perpetuate the illusory experience of separation. Ishvara often refers to the ego as the I-consciousness


--------------------
--------------------
We're the lowest of the low, the scum of the fucking earth!


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Whats wrong with ego? [Re: Scarfmeister]
    #3147291 - 09/17/04 09:10 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Shroomnoob said:
I understand what you are saying and i think is a novel aspiration. Though i cant help thinking that you sound a bit schitzophrenic. Thinking of ego as some kind of evil selfserving program you need to flee from.




I am not implying that I think of ego as an "evil, self-serving program". If I were to quickly summarize what I think the ego is, it would be more as a "well meaning program that needs to be used to put itself into retirement, as it does more harm than good". I feel I did a good job of defining what I am implying when I use the word ego, and perhaps it is different than what comes to your mind when the word is used....

Quote:


Here is an intresting quote on the matter : Ego is another term for the conditional mind. It describes the collection of beliefs that make up the idea of a separate ?me.? In truth, however, the ego does not exist. To struggle with the ego is to struggle with an illusion. So the attempt to overcome the ego only serves to perpetuate the illusory experience of separation. Ishvara often refers to the ego as the I-consciousness




I'm not supporting trying to overcome the ego, but rather using it to limit its power over one's mind, so one will be free to access higher states of consciousness and make better, more understanding actions and thoughts for one's own good.

This isn't done by "struggling with an illusion", but rather observing ones own thoughts and actions, and finding out what motivates one to act and think the way they do. It involves taking note of every negative emotion we feel and discovering what is really the root of feeling it - it is never the outside circumstance that forces us to feel this way, it always comes about from a mental addiction not being fufilled.

As I stated earlier, I see the ego as a collection of thoughts, a program, that identifies an idea of a seperate self, and also the need to continue the survival of that idea of a seperate self. The ego works to identify threats and benefits to the idea of the seperate self, and will also attempt to control the actions of the self when it feels the self is being threatened, or when it feels taking action will produce a benefit. It inflicts some sort of negative emotion as an attempt to force us to take a certain action.

I feel that this is left over from a time when we were not so conscious and aware, perhaps an instinct to ensure our survival, or perhaps it is put into us when we are raised at a young age, when we are too unaware to make our own wise choices (getting smacked in the ass by someone so that we will not pull on the cat's tail, or having fear of what might happen instilled into us if we dare to take candy from a stranger).

It is therefore certainly required when we are not yet at an understanding where we can make conscious, wise choices for ourselves - we are protected from threat without really understanding what the threat is, or why we can't make certain choices... the negative emotions or thought of physical pain override our decision making procedures and force certain action.

However, we will eventually outgrow this, we will take on an understanding into the nature of the world and our surroundings, and we will then be capable of taking control of our lives and our actions back, we will reach a maturity where we can begin to ascend to higher states of thinking. Of course, mental programs don't have an expiration date, and a lot of people are never taught or become aware of how to break free from these programs... not a lot of people go through rites of passage into manhood anymore. :grin:

The ego's realm is in life or death situations, where our survival is immediately and truely threatened, and we do not have the convience of time to consider variables and actions to be taken. Fight or flight is what this is all about. Of course, these situations are extremely rare, if we ever even experience them. The ego, being concerned with our survival, tends to be paranoid, over-analyzing situations, meddling in affairs not at all related to an immediate threat of survival. And if it is given power, it is going to become a massive control freak, always under the banner of protecting our survival (hhhm.... now think.... where do we see this today? Ever hear of the words "Patriot Act", or ensuring our national security?).

The ego takes control of us if it is allowed, if a higher center of consciousness isn't activated... it will map out its demands and expectations of reality, its addictions to security, sensation, and power (even love, something that cannot be grasped or controlled). An addiction can never be fufilled, and if it isn't gratified, you will suffer for it...

Ja, referring to the ego like this is merely an illusion, as it is actually just tendencies in thought patterns, but it can be useful to refer to it as a unified program in order to start limiting its power over your awareness, to begin to identify one's addictions and transcend them, to take your well-meaning but incompetant friend and put him somewhere where he can't fuck over your life....

Getting past an ill-programmed ego isn't a mental battle with some evil computer, it is simply stopping the flow of certain harmful thoughts and introducing new, positive thoughts, it is starting to break the associations between certain thoughts and powerful, negative emotions, it is basically unclogging your mind so you can perceive reality a little bit clearer, and experience life a little more freely, and definitely more positively.... it is about advancing our center of consciousness, taking more identity with our pure awareness, the observer, and becoming more aware of the here and now moment, experiencing more detail....

Essentially, it is about changing ourselves within to seek happiness and fufillment, rather than a consuming, seperating, constant attempt to rearrange external situations to meet some expectation that we think will fufill ourselves... it is about simply being, breathing, being aware, and being free. :grin: :laugh:

Everyone should check out the book Handbook to Higher Consciousness by Ken Keyes Jr, it is an amazingly insightful book concerning all of this.... I think it is time to go search for mine and go a bit deeper.... :wink:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Invisiblekaiowas
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Re: Whats wrong with ego? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #3147332 - 09/17/04 09:34 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

the ego is like an emotional filter that the mind uses to take all of the input that our rational mind and senses process and it projects feeling over it.  quite simply, it's our  sense of self that should be used in situations in order to survive.  I mean if we didn't have this  sense then it would be a whole lot harder for you to survive.

we only need the ego so much when we are younger.  being told NO, and don't do that, and this is bad, just so that we wouldn't walk i nthe middle of the streets, or put our hands on something that would burn us.

What happens though is that we take this mental programming that we recieved while we were younger, and we still apply it to day in our lives where most of the time it isn't needed. our ideas of good and bad are layered on top of each other, up until the point that we have a defination for good and bad for EVERYTHING that is around us.

take it like this, a paranoid person lives in a paranoid world, while a happy person lives in a happy world.  it all depends on how much judgement you apply when your mind filters in information via the senses.  we are strictly talking about internal reality at this point (as it is the only one we can fully control and master).

so as we get older, we still hold onto this old programming, we still use the ego in full force, when in reality we don't need to 90% of the time.  this is where the term "letting go" comes from.  it is the erasing of the emphasis your emotional filter (ego) and plugging it with new programming (which ever you chose).

but you might say, well why not judge everything?  you can jduge everything you want, but what the ego does (since this is your sense of self which is related directly to security, sensations and power) is it forces your will upon reality.

quite frankly, when you feel negative in any way (be it anger, frustration, sorrow, shyness, etc) it is because whenever a certain situation happens in reality, your ego will see it as a threat, and instantly your mind will be in instinct mode.  this is our jjungle fight or flight mechanism that we use when we are in danger. it increases heart rate, adds more sugar to your bloodstream, and puts so much stress on your body that it can cause health problems (allergies, ulcers, etc), and all because of thought! :blush:

when a negative feelign arises, no matter how small, the mind will react in a way that there is a sense of some kind of danger or hurry. 

we can use the go though to help better ourselves.  when a negative emotions arises, we can llok at it, and realize that it is only us that is make ourselves feel this way, not reality.  again, the ego has you force your will upon reality, depending on it for your ego satisfaction.  and we all know that life won't go our way even 50% of the time. 

allow the emotional filter to relax allows for neutrality to sweep through, and the way you will handle situations will be with a much clearer mindset. 

so it isn't about the ego being bad, it's just an old program that should only be used for the emergencies it was designed for :wink:




--------------------
Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.---senior doobie


Edited by kaiowas (09/17/04 10:02 AM)


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OfflineFrankieN
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Registered: 12/27/03
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Re: Whats wrong with ego? [Re: Stinky]
    #3147395 - 09/17/04 10:01 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Nicely put fireworks_god, I'll definately be looking into that book.


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Invisiblekaiowas
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Re: Whats wrong with ego? [Re: FrankieN]
    #3147404 - 09/17/04 10:05 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

yeah that book is awesome.  :grin:


--------------------
Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.---senior doobie


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Whats wrong with ego? [Re: Scarfmeister]
    #3147604 - 09/17/04 11:13 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

the usual complaint about ego in others has to do with selfishness.
the usual complaint about ego in ourselves is about our kneejerk reactions (habits) that make others think we are selfish or that actually confuse us when we are trying something new.

those handy filters really want to find already known objects in the process of defending our personal safety and prospects.

when we are stoned almost everything can become unfamiliar, so we become bothered by habits that fiendishly want to sort it all out into known objects.

we have to get more comfortable with the inbetween - the things that are not know objects, the things that are not part of ego.

then we won't freak out so much.

meantime I am not really too happy when someone else's selfishness is blocking my own. but that is pure ego!


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: Whats wrong with ego? [Re: Scarfmeister]
    #3147800 - 09/17/04 12:47 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Wow! All of that from shroomnoobs first post. I just read it to mean that we should embrace our individuality and that of others, what makes us unique via personal experiences and that of others.

Do you guys want to live in a world where no one is unique via experience and no one has any thoughts of their own independantly experienced or expressed from the one mind?

What would happen to our creativity?

A bunch of other questions arise too.


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Whats wrong with ego? [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3147936 - 09/17/04 01:16 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

ego is fine.
even when it gets in way
so is the guy in front of me on the highway, have to make time for that.
but for creativity, nothing beats connecting with the inbetween stuff, with lesser recognized and ill formed objects.
i.e. the not yet part of ego part of life


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: Whats wrong with ego? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #3147955 - 09/17/04 01:20 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

I agree red, life in the betwix is sweeeeeeeeet. maybe I will post an article on the betwix- it's pretty good.


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Whats wrong with ego? [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3147995 - 09/17/04 01:26 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Of course "we" don't. If anything, one who breaks free from the short-circuited control of their ego is more free to express themselves creatively, more free to define their indviduality and their state of being, more free to simply be...

Being free of an ego that tries to limit our perceptions of reality and to control us by pushing buttons that zap us with negative emotions actually increases the quality and enjoyment of ones personal experiences. One would be able to learn, grow, and evolve much faster and more richly when not confined by addictions to lower consciousness centers (ever feel insecure, jealous, afraid? doesn't it seperate and limit you?).

Someone who is constantly worried about the opinions that other people around him hold of him (this person would have a couple of security addictions) is having a lot of focus and awareness being drained by worrying, by having an ego that has these addictions programmed inside of his mind. Energy and thoughts are being directed to pointless worrying and anxiety issues that could be well spent elsewhere. It is easy to see how this can add up, especially if someone has a wide variety of addictions acrossed the board (as many people do).

Every little thought, no matter how conscious we are of it, drains some level of our focus, and if we are constantly trying to form a concrete perception of reality, and then trying to actually change the external world to fit our version of reality (as the vast majority of people do), and also constantly denying ourself of the present moment, either preoccupied with the past or the future, or even trying to maintain an illusion of control over a variety of different situations, people, etc., then we are draining our energy and our focus, blinding our perceptions, continuing to seperate ourselves from the moment and the experience of life.... its a big fucking mess and none of us need it. :lol:

I'm not sure if you read all of my two replies up there, but it should be easy to see how breaking free from the ego's control of yourself actually intensifies your experience and your individuality, and everything pertaining to your questions above. :wink:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Offlinerecalcitrant
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Re: Whats wrong with ego? [Re: Scarfmeister]
    #3148018 - 09/17/04 01:30 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

What's wrong with ego? It's evil.

Ego drives capitalism. If everyone understood the connection that is all of us (Like in the short story "the Tools of Xanadu") we could live like communists, like angels.

Unfortunatly we are wicked. We are forced to be seperate from the source and so we plot and we scheme and we work and we toil for our own damned selves.

God wants heaven where all live as one and his divine plan guides us and shapes the course of the universe. The devil wants hell where souls are subservient and enslaved to the bidding of those in control.


--------------------

We have to answer our own prayers


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Whats wrong with ego? [Re: recalcitrant]
    #3148058 - 09/17/04 01:40 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

The thought of declaring some natural process in our minds as evil (actually, declaring anything as evil at all) is rather absurd. :grin: To declare the ego as evil is to declare ourselves as evil, as it is exactly the same to declare anything and everything as evil. Completely useless it is to take an empty word with no meaning and tag it onto something. :smirk:

I am going to ask you to define the word ego, as you use it, before I will consider your post here... tell me what the ego that you are referring to is. In fact, I am going to politely request that everyone here defines the word ego when they use it, because the word is far too general and is used to define a variety of things (including the dictionary's completely pointless defintion that bluntly says the ego is "the self").

Let's clarify! :wink:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: Whats wrong with ego? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #3148294 - 09/17/04 02:49 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Well, fogive me all as I just looked at the post title again. It is asking for what is WRONG with the ego.

I have a natural tendency to hit the flip side of things.  :tongue: Keeps me from getting stuck in a polarity extreme.

You all did a great job of explaining what is wrong with ego! And yet, when you are in emotional pain because of it, there is an opportunity there to discover what limiting beleif about yourself you have. You can change it, move out of suffering and then out of pain comes gain.

There's is always opportunity for positive benefit to be found in the negative of life.  We wouldn't even know what positive benefit was if it weren't for the experience of negative deficits they come out of.

Can we look at the flip side of this coin?

They took two 3rd grade class rooms at the same school. One went along bussiness as usual and in the other they worked these kids egos to the max. They told them that they scored incredible high on IQ tests how extremely smart they were yada yada. By the end of the year, the ego inflated classroom FAR out performed the other one in every area.

If I want to have a positive impact on my experiences and envirnonment that I need to draw from the postive support of my ego.
My ego needs to have ideas and beleifs about myself that say, I can be or do this or that or I am this or that.

Gold medalist have to tell themseves they are the best to get there, before they actually are proven the best.

Look at how the U.S. was the first country to be ruled by dimplomacy versus the dictator and royal rule of old. Sure, egos support dictatoships and monarchies, but the ego of Thomas jefferson said, I can create a different sort of rule, I can establish something unique and different because I beleive myself to be a diplomatic and free being.

If you are going to go as far as to look at what is wrong and bad with ego, you will limit yourself if you do not also look at what is good and right with ego.

I would like to hear more from people about what an egoless "no self beleifs, unique or individual from anothers" society works like and how its experienced and how and where it evolves in self understanding.

I wonder about these things.


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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Onlinedeff
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Re: Whats wrong with ego? [Re: Scarfmeister]
    #3148336 - 09/17/04 03:00 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

The ego to one who possesses one appears beneficial.

But you have to try and look behind it to see how much it distorts and manipulates your perception.


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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Re: Whats wrong with ego? [Re: deff]
    #3148376 - 09/17/04 03:06 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

The ego doesnt make you who you are, it LIMITS who you are

im not gonna get in here cuz you guys are already handeling it perfectly (damn good stuff fireworks!)

"I understand what you are saying and i think is a novel aspiration. Though i cant help thinking that you sound a bit schitzophrenic. Thinking of ego as some kind of evil selfserving program you need to flee from."

its not evil, nor self serving. Its just limiting, and when not controlled from a position that is BEYOND the ego, it becomes damaging.

And you dont seem to know what schizophrenia is, cuz that is not a schizophrenic belief.


--------------------


Everything I post is fiction. This poster is no longer active.


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
Re: Whats wrong with ego? [Re: deff]
    #3148389 - 09/17/04 03:09 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Step outside of all of this for a moment. of course it creates self definitions good or bad, positive or negative.

What no one is addressing here is what is the experience of life, without that? I don't know and I would like to know, I don't even know if its possible to have a functioning, accomplishing, self fullfill, self realising society that is egoless.

If it is, what is the purpose of it?


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Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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General Interest >> Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology

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