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Offlinecb9fl
Senior ChildMolestationExpert
Registered: 06/12/03
Posts: 3,104
Loc: florida
Last seen: 7 years, 3 months
US schools 2+3=6
    #3459832 - 12/07/04 03:24 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

"The New York Times reports that the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development has released its results (pdf) for a test of mathematical skills given to 15 year olds in 40 different countries. A few apparent anomalies: The US kids rated 28th of 40 (so in the bottom third) while the Czech Republic, which spends in education 1/3 of what the US spends, ranked in the top 10. Further, only about 1/3 of US kids reported that they did not feel as though they were good at math, whereas about 2/3 of Koreans reported this--and the Koreans ranked in the top three. 'Mr. Schleicher said that students in countries that emphasized theorems and rote learning tended not to do as well as those that emphasized the more practical aspects of mathematics.'"




http://a455.g.akamai.net/7/455/1879/v1/193.51.65.71/dataoecd/1/60/34002216.pdf
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/12/07/national/07student.html


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It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not. -Andre Gide

"Generosity is nothing else than a craze to possess. All which I abandon, all which I give, I enjoy in a higher manner through the fact that I give it away. To give is to enjoy possessively the object which one gives."


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OfflineKenny7822
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Male

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Registered: 01/29/04
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Loc: MA, USA
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Re: US schools 2+3=6 [Re: cb9fl]
    #3459851 - 12/07/04 03:28 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Looks like Koreans don't have a very high self esteem and Americans' self esteem is way too high.


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Anonymous

Re: US schools 2+3=6 [Re: cb9fl]
    #3459875 - 12/07/04 03:35 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

american public schools focus more on making kids happy little drones than they do on getting them to think or challenge themselves. what american students recieve in our public schools is a far cry from education. the whole system is run by some of the biggest morons this country has got to offer. you should have seen who was on the school board at the schools i attended when i was a kid...


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Offlinecb9fl
Senior ChildMolestationExpert
Registered: 06/12/03
Posts: 3,104
Loc: florida
Last seen: 7 years, 3 months
Re: US schools 2+3=6 [Re: ]
    #3459886 - 12/07/04 03:37 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Do you think colleges fall in the same category? I'm about to return to school after a significant lapse. Hopefully I'll have a much better perspective now.


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It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not. -Andre Gide

"Generosity is nothing else than a craze to possess. All which I abandon, all which I give, I enjoy in a higher manner through the fact that I give it away. To give is to enjoy possessively the object which one gives."


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Offlinekadakuda
The Great"Green".......East
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Re: US schools 2+3=6 [Re: cb9fl]
    #3459908 - 12/07/04 03:43 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

same where i am in canada. throwing money at schools doesnt make them better.

life skills are rarely tought (except for putting condoms on a banana...and uhh...resume writting) its all about the x+y(f-j+2zp)/345345.3242f. but it seems to have always been like that.


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The seeds you won't sow are the plants you dont grow.


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Anonymous

Re: US schools 2+3=6 [Re: cb9fl]
    #3459938 - 12/07/04 03:49 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

if we are to have public schools at all, they should teach people how to read, write, do basic arithmetic, and possibly basic algebra. attempts to do anything else are wasteful and often simply fail. my high school was a joke, and it was, reletively speaking, a very good public high school.

schools are daycare centers and teachers are nannies. students are the ones most keenly aware of this, and their attitude towards school and education suffers accordingly.


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Registered: 06/15/02
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Re: US schools 2+3=6 [Re: ]
    #3460164 - 12/07/04 04:34 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

In high school I never took a book home, never raised my hand, never did my homework, barely stayed awake, and had a horrible attitude. Most of the kids in my class were the same. Nobody cared at all. Even a lot of the kids who were in advanced classes and looking forward to college didn't give a fuck. When I graduated high school, I didn't know a damn thing. College was a shock for me because I found that I actually had to study and try.

The problem was that our education was presented in a boring and tedious way. We never had fun and interesting concepts to learn. The teachers didn't try to get the kids involved and really enjoying things. They just read right out of the book and went home to get their check.

And this wasn't some "inner city" school. It was a respected rural school. Public education is a joke in America at the moment. If I ever have kids they are going to private school, so they can get a better education than I did.


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Anonymous

Re: US schools 2+3=6 [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #3460179 - 12/07/04 04:37 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

fun and interesting is usually too controversial for public school. boring and tedious is safe and politically correct. we don't want to hurt anyone's feelings now.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: US schools 2+3=6 [Re: ]
    #3460187 - 12/07/04 04:40 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

mushmaster said:
fun and interesting is usually too controversial for public school. boring and tedious is safe and politically correct. we don't want to hurt anyone's feelings now.



That's essentially the problem with public education. Since the public pays for it, the public gets to bitch at them whent they teach things that offend them. Thus you get a really dumbed-down education. With private education, if you don't like what they're teaching your kids, you can send them to a different private school.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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InvisibleDoctorJ
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Registered: 06/30/03
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Re: US schools 2+3=6 [Re: silversoul7]
    #3460201 - 12/07/04 04:42 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

where I live, there are no secular private schools. So the private school kids get a healthy dose of religious indoctrination along with their education, which is almost as bad (if not worse) than the shoddy public education I recieved.


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peace, pot, and microdot!


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Anonymous

Re: US schools 2+3=6 [Re: DoctorJ]
    #3460217 - 12/07/04 04:47 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

the people i know who attended religious schools learned to have a healthy distaste for excessive religion.


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OfflineAncalagon
AgnosticLibertarian

Registered: 07/30/02
Posts: 1,364
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Re: US schools 2+3=6 [Re: DoctorJ]
    #3460221 - 12/07/04 04:48 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

DoctorJ said:
where I live, there are no secular private schools. So the private school kids get a healthy dose of religious indoctrination along with their education, which is almost as bad (if not worse) than the shoddy public education I recieved.



Do you believe it stands to reason that this situation (only religious-based private schools) would change pretty dramatically were the public schools in the area to close down? Also, why do you believe the religious based schools are doing a poor job educating? Just because you disagree with the religious aspect of what is taught?


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?When Alexander the Great visted the philosopher Diogenes and asked whether he could do anything for him, Diogenes is said to have replied: 'Yes, stand a little less between me and the sun.' It is what every citizen is entitled to ask of his government.?
-Henry Hazlitt in 'Economics in One Lesson'


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Re: US schools 2+3=6 [Re: DoctorJ]
    #3460222 - 12/07/04 04:48 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Private religious schools still offer a better education than public schools. I would tell my kid to keep his/her mouth shut, don't pay attention to the praise Jesus shit, and take advantage of the quality of the education.

Public schools are pathetic in my experience.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: US schools 2+3=6 [Re: DoctorJ]
    #3460232 - 12/07/04 04:50 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

I went to a Catholic High School. Yes, they did try to indocrinate us a little, but it wasn't as bad as you'd think. We were able to have open discussion about a lot of topics that would be taboo at a public school. There were no teen pregnancies that I knew of, and the vast majority of students went on to some sort of higher education.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Anonymous

Re: US schools 2+3=6 [Re: cb9fl]
    #3460235 - 12/07/04 04:51 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

education is one of those things where we get into practicality vs. ideological purism.

libertarians will argue that there should be no public funding of education. i almost agree, but this would never fly in a representative system of government. people overwhelmingly want public education.


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Offlinelonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.
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Registered: 10/03/04
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Re: US schools 2+3=6 [Re: cb9fl]
    #3460269 - 12/07/04 05:00 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

they had forced integration when i went to school. they bused me from the suburbs to the inner city. (Miami) i had no time for learning, this white-boy was just trying to survive. i was also shocked when i went to college. i had to change my major because even with a tutor i could not pass physics or calculus.


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America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama


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InvisibleAutonomous
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Registered: 05/10/02
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Loc: U.S.S.A.
Re: US schools 2+3=6 [Re: ]
    #3460349 - 12/07/04 05:19 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

If education benefits the student, shouldn't the student pay for his own education?

I think it is wrong that people who choose to remain childless should pay for the education of other people's children. I would have no problem if the government set up individual education accounts for each child entering public school. When the child takes classes, his fund would have charges applied for those classes. When the person enters the work force, he would then be required to pay back for his education directly to this fund. This would be pretty much like the Sallie Mae student loan program, but cover primary education and would not burden those who choose not to have children, nor would those who choose to send their children to private school have to pay. Initial funding could be raised with educational bonds (but may need some tax revenue to help get it started) and after a period the system would be self-sustaining.

Libertarians should not object because the system would be voluntary. There should be no restrictions about private organizations setting up their own similar systems.


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"In religion and politics people's beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second-hand, and without examination."
-- Mark Twain


Edited by Autonomous (12/07/04 11:49 PM)


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OfflineTao
Village Genius

Registered: 09/19/03
Posts: 7,935
Loc: San Diego
Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
Re: US schools 2+3=6 [Re: Autonomous]
    #3460412 - 12/07/04 05:38 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

the argument from people like Adam Smith is that the full benefits reaped from an educated citizenry cannot be reaped by the private investments


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Magash's Grain Tek  + Tub-in-Tub Incubator + Magash's PMP + SBP Tek + Dunking = Practically all a newbie grower needs :thumbup:


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InvisibleAutonomous
MysteriousStranger

Registered: 05/10/02
Posts: 901
Loc: U.S.S.A.
Re: US schools 2+3=6 [Re: Tao]
    #3460440 - 12/07/04 05:44 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

There are an awful lot of private educational institutions that demonstrate the falsehood of that notion. If something has value, people WILL pay for it. I must admit that what passes for primary public education in this country is not worth what is being paid. The existence of remedial courses in colleges is testament to this.


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"In religion and politics people's beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second-hand, and without examination."
-- Mark Twain


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OfflineTao
Village Genius

Registered: 09/19/03
Posts: 7,935
Loc: San Diego
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Re: US schools 2+3=6 [Re: Autonomous]
    #3460454 - 12/07/04 05:48 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

I mean it has value to the rest of the society who otherwise wouldnt pay for it.


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Magash's Grain Tek  + Tub-in-Tub Incubator + Magash's PMP + SBP Tek + Dunking = Practically all a newbie grower needs :thumbup:


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