FreakQlibrium said:

I totally agree with you that nothing overlaps and that there are NO grey/gray areas, but come on man, when we accept rapists, child molestors and murderers as those just "fufilling their karmic destinies"(or w/e) then exactly what furthur madness are we letting ouselves in for? 

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FreakQlibrium said:

From my admittedly somewhat brief understanding of God and the Bible, there ARE no grey areas, as much as it would please the human intellect to believe there are. I would take it from your post that you believe evil VS good are all relative and subjective to our own human variable factor(believing whatever it is we WANT to believe) I myself can not agree but am currently in no position due to my novice stature as a born again Christian to argue, not due to my lack of faith or belief but rather lacking the requisite tools with which to defend my position intellectually

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Cyber said:

FreakQlibrium said:

I totally agree with you that nothing overlaps and that there are NO grey/gray areas, but come on man, when we accept rapists, child molestors and murderers as those just "fufilling their karmic destinies"(or w/e) then exactly what furthur madness are we letting ouselves in for? 

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I would like to add that this is one of the things that confuses me about Christians. There is only black and white, good and evil. There are no shades of gray.

Does the bible say that God created all things? Would this not include both good and evil? Could these evil doers be fulfilling a greater good that you do not understand? Would this then be a shade of gray not from the prospective of man but from the prospective of God. Man does not have the big picture, he only knows what little he can comprehend.

To make my point.

Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

Proverbs 16:4 The Lord hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.

Lamentations 3:38 Is it not from the mouth of the Most High that both calamities and good things come?

Now to open the biggest GRAY area of all.

From a christian prospective was the murder of Jesus Christ wrong?

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deff said:

Isn't grey comprised of smaller particles of black and white?

This reminds me of the String Theory, except in binary.

But of course, good and evil are terms in stories

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Max Headroom said:

Allowing murder, rape, child molesting as a result of someone else's free will?

Yes, allowing these is also love. You must allow people to learn about the laws of cause-effect in their own way, no matter how horrifying it may seem to you. When considered in a short-term linear perspective this looks like a terrible thing for me to write. But if you consider a bigger picture, in terms of karma and reincarnation, it makes more sense. This is why I made a post a little while ago about victimhood. Victims are responsible for what happens to them, no matter how defenseless, young, or innocent they are.

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shroomydan said:

The ignorance which abounds in this forum is baffling. So many bullshit opinions.

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Quote:

Many of you think that you are God. You are not. Only a prideful closed minded person could look out at the grandeur of the universe and think himself to be the greatest thing that exists.

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Quote:

Victims are responsible for what happens to them, no matter how defenseless, young, or innocent they are.

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Cyber said:

skystone said:

I think these commandments have little to do with spirituality, they served the same purpuse as today's laws to, to keep the piece and order in the civilisation, and to prevent selfdestruction of society.

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Read it before opening your mouth and inserting your foot!

Exodus 20: 3-17

• Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
  
• Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any
  thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath,
  or that is in the water under the earth: Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
  
• Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD
  will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.
  
• Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour,
  and do all thy work: But the seventh day is the sabbath of the
  LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy
  son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor
  thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
  For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all
  that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD
  blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it. Honour thy father and
  thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the
  LORD thy God giveth thee.
  
• Thou shalt not kill.
  
• Thou shalt not commit adultery.
  
• Thou shalt not steal.
  
• Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
  
• Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's house, thou shalt not covet thy
  neighbor's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor
  his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbor's.
  

The first 5 have everything to do with the Jewish/Christian ideals.

I say everyone should follow the 40 commandments of Maat as written by the scribe Ani in 1500BC

1.Thou shalt not commit sin.
2.Thou shalt not commit robbery with violence.
3.Thou shalt not steel.
4.Thou shalt not murder men and women.
5.Thou shalt not steel grain.
6.Thou shalt not purloin offerings.
7.Thou shalt not steel the property of Neter.
8.Thou shalt not uttered lies.
9.Thou shalt not carry away food.
10.Thou shalt not utter curses.
11.Thou shalt not commit adultery.
12.Thou shalt not make one weep.
13.Thou shalt not eat the heart.
14.Thou shalt not attack any man.
15.Thou shalt not be a man of deceit.
16.Thou shalt not steel cultivated land.
17.Thou shalt not be an eavesdropper.
18.Thou shalt not slandered.
19.Thou shalt not be angry without just cause.
20.Thou shalt not debauched the wife of any man.
21.Thou shalt not pollute thyself.
22.Thou shalt not terrorize another.
23.Thou shalt not transgressed the law.
24.Thou shalt not be wroth.
25.Thou shalt not shut thy ears to the words of truth.
26.Thou shalt not blasphemed.
27.Thou shalt not be a man of violence.
28.Thou shalt not be a stirrer up of strife.
29.Thou shalt not act with undue haste.
30.Thou shalt not pry into matters.
31.Thou shalt not multiply thy words in speaking.
32.Thou shalt not wrong another.
33.Thou shalt do no evil.
34.Thou shalt not stop the flow of water.
35.Thou shalt never raise thy voice.
36.Thou shalt not curse Neteru.
37.Thou shalt not act with arrogance.
38.Thou shalt not steel the bread of the Neteru.
39.Thou shalt not snatch away the bread of a child.
40.Thou shalt not treat with contempt the Neter of my city.

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Cyber said:

Now to open the biggest GRAY area of all.

From a christian prospective was the murder of Jesus Christ wrong?

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Exactly, your post was great.

Nothing but black and white when it comes to God, eh? Why, the Bible, which some who post here irrefutably claim to be The Word of God, is full of contradictions.

It is amazing to me that people will actually believe that there is a God that holds an ultimate view of good and evil, and is willing to offer subsequent rewards and punishments for behavior, when not one single human being on this Fucking planet knows what this black and white, ultimate good and evil defined by God is.

A suspossed cornerstone of God's commandments lists murder as wrong. Simple murder. No allowances, conditions, or provisions. Murder. Is. Wrong.




But yet....




at the same time.....



for the crime of inflicting suffering and death on his suspossed son....



every single person on Earth is offered salvation.


It is beyond comprehension how some people can regard a loose collection of writings spanning hundreds and hundreds of years, authored by unrelated, seperate people, as the authoriative testament and declaration of God's message for mankind, especially as these writings in no way present a clear message from God.


It is simply stunning that some people, so willing to believe, will adopt a complex, short-circuited, hardcore-glitched model of thinking and of logic that does not even represent observable, knowable reality. It is amazing to me how delusional these people are. Its like the ultimate manifestation of the ego here. Some have real experience of a center in the state of being and they construct an archetypical nexus castle of grandeur around it, effectively seperating themselves from that state of being in the first place.

These people's minds are diseased. They do not reflect reality. It is utterly insane and stupefying. 


Peace.

fireworks_god said:

A suspossed cornerstone of God's commandments lists murder as wrong. Simple murder. No allowances, conditions, or provisions. Murder. Is. Wrong.




But yet....




at the same time.....



for the crime of inflicting suffering and death on his suspossed son....



every single person on Earth is offered salvation.


It is beyond comprehension how some people can regard a loose collection of writings spanning hundreds and hundreds of years, authored by unrelated, seperate people, as the authoriative testament and declaration of God's message for mankind, especially as these writings in no way present a clear message from God.

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Totally, wholeheartedly, 100% agree with the above statement.  Motherfuckin' A.

Quote:

shroomydan said:
The ignorance which abounds in this forum is baffling. So many bullshit opinions.

Many of you think that you are God. You are not. Only a prideful closed minded person could look out at the grandeur of the universe and think himself to be the greatest thing that exists.

There is very little philosophy that happens here. Philosophy is Greek for love of wisdom, and the apprehension of wisdom is impossible without humility.

Since this is a thread about the ten commandments it would be wise to note the first commandment; this is what grounds the authority and truth of the other nine.

"I am The Lord your God, Who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. You shall have no other gods before Me."

This is not some socially expedient law. This is an affirmation of who it is that is commanding.

There can only be one best thing, only one greatest thing; it ain't me and it ain't you. He speaks to us and tells us how to be happy and free.

Usually the most important things come first. If you reject the first commandment you reject them all.


Now,

Quote:

Max Headroom said:
Allowing murder, rape, child molesting as a result of someone else's free will?

Yes, allowing these is also love. You must allow people to learn about the laws of cause-effect in their own way, no matter how horrifying it may seem to you. When considered in a short-term linear perspective this looks like a terrible thing for me to write. But if you consider a bigger picture, in terms of karma and reincarnation, it makes more sense. This is why I made a post a little while ago about victimhood. Victims are responsible for what happens to them, no matter how defenseless, young, or innocent they are.

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You have just justified child rape. You are sick. Open your mind to the truth, take responsibility for your actions.


One last thought:
It seems that the people who post here all the time have very little understanding of the doctrines of various religions, and even less understanding of the history of philosophy. I suspect that there are those lurking who really do know whats up, but are refraining from posting here. Please, how much of this ignorance are we to tolerate?

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Shroomydan,

This post of yours was packed with so much misunderstanding, I feel like building some bridges with it.

The first bridgeless places I see are between you and you. On the one hand, you set out in radical judgment of others with name calling. To judge we have to put ourselves in a "supreme"  being position, a better then you position, a looking down over you and your actions in judgment position. Sounds like you were playing God to me, and yet, you criticized others for equating themselves with God? Hmmmmmm something to think about.

You also said that wisdom comes from humility and that few were practicing that here. Where were you showing humility in your reply? How can one take your words to be wise or not see your hypocrisy? Can you see it in yourself?

You came from a place of religious philosophical self righteousness, ended by saying the bullshit opinions of others and ignorance here should not be tolerated.

Isn't that how the Holocaust started? When people fail to tolerate and accept and allow for differences including just beleifs and opinions, wars begin and people start getting killed or exterminated. If you advocate strongly showing a lack of toleration for others opinions, you are a part of the problem not the  solution.

The bridges between you and you, your divided self have to be built by you, I just pointed out where you can meet yourself in the middle. A self divided is a self at war and in struggle with its own self. Such a self will also externalize that struggle and see to divide others like you wanted to do on this board. You must know how the Bible says evil seeks to divide and conquer.

Love and its understanding seeks to mend and heal all of the unrecognised and forgotten pieces of the self back together.

How and what you came down on Max for was interesting considering you say you are a religious philosophical type. Consider this;

You must believe in God, Jesus, Mother Mary, the Angels and Saints if you are claiming people are ignorant of religion. You believe God and those he has graced to be supreme over man. You would admit I am sure that God and the crew, have the power to intervene and STOP all rape and murder. Do they? No! They sit back and allow it all to happen. Does your God and Jesus not love us all? You said love would NEVER allow such things.

Max I beleive was simply coming from the perspective of "As above so Below" which is a philosophical one at that. Is God not wise and just? HE allows for it all to happen. You accused max of things that you would also be accusing your God of for allowing it.

Didn't the Bible say we were made in the Image of God? To be made in it's image is to be made in its likeness- sameness. Didn't Jesus in the Bible say we all were Gods? If you know your Bible unlike the ignorants, how is it people can not equate themselves with the same like essence of God? It teaches us to.

Maybe when he said put no other before me, he was saying, put no one before yourself as being greater or better because the I am in You is all there is and you are created equal to all in spirit.

For what you accused others of, you made yourself guilty of in word and action which is more powerful then belief. You can lump yourself in with them unless you are better. That's just funny considering you got upset with others for misinterpreting they were saying they think they are better.

Anyone who understands the I am within also comes from a place of equality and oneness with the whole of all.

Reread what you wrote in the light of what I wrote. You may find it funny.