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OfflineNorthernsoul
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Has that 80's satanism completely been forgoten?
    #3095738 - 09/05/04 06:59 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Ok, remember the 80's, and how satanism sort of became an actual marketing comodity?
Are there still remainants of this once popular anti establishment fad? Or has it gone more underground?

I was thinking maybe its still buzzing and still taking in alot of cash with groups like Slipknot and so on...know what I mean?


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Offlinemushiemountain
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Re: Has that 80's satanism completely been forgoten? [Re: Northernsoul]
    #3096122 - 09/05/04 09:33 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

It's everywhere in my town. I find it quite funny. My friends girl friend sees a stick on a car that says JESUS. Then says "let's put gasoline all over the back of the truck and light it on fire those fuckin' jesus lovers." Hahaha.


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I Ain't No Fool. Mama Didn't Raise No Fool.
----------primussucks


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Offlinekadakuda
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Re: Has that 80's satanism completely been forgoten? [Re: Northernsoul]
    #3096384 - 09/05/04 10:58 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

now they call themselves "goths".  ask them, they dont know shit about teh actuall religion.  99% of them aare just into it for the clothes, which dont resemble gothism at all.  its also a huge attention thing.  i have many friends how are "goths" , i find it is mostly people who have some sort of self image problem ie. overwheight, tiny etc...  those bad ass kids go around stealing free newspapers then violently hurl them to the ground to show the man whos boss.  just a fad in most casses.  be cool if some actually were interested in the religion and didnt learn everythign from korn and movies... :rolleyes:


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The seeds you won't sow are the plants you dont grow.


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Offline123316
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Re: Has that 80's satanism completely been forgoten? [Re: kadakuda]
    #3096471 - 09/05/04 11:15 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Actually, I myself practice Satanism and I completely agree with you on the fact that there is a mass of ignorant children that are just looking for attention and stupid shit like that. The religion itself is very little like these so called "Satanic" and "Evil" bands and has these alleged bands go around and soil the religions meanings. Satanism in short is just the belief that one should live an indulgent life, be happy with themselves, and do whatever he or she likes to do. Some heavy metal does hold some credability, because Satan looks after his followers and will punish the ones that harm or disturb them. But suicidal teeny boppers deffinantly don't help the religion's image.


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Offlinecherokee
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Re: Has that 80's satanism completely been forgoten? [Re: 123316]
    #3097352 - 09/06/04 02:08 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

I don't think the religion has much of a positive image to begin with if it preaches self-indulgence. How did you get turned onto satanism?


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OfflineZahid
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Re: Has that 80's satanism completely been forgoten? [Re: Northernsoul]
    #3097365 - 09/06/04 02:10 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

I hope this doesn't offend anyone here, but I can't stand goths.  :sad:


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InvisibleDoctorJ
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Re: Has that 80's satanism completely been forgoten? [Re: Northernsoul]
    #3097379 - 09/06/04 02:13 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Lucifer is a pretty decent guy. he just gets a bad rap.


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peace, pot, and microdot!


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InvisibleTHE KRAT BARON
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Re: Has that 80's satanism completely been forgoten? [Re: kadakuda]
    #3097739 - 09/06/04 03:51 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

a


Edited by matt (08/31/07 08:11 PM)


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OfflineAlan Stone
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Re: Has that 80's satanism completely been forgoten? [Re: Northernsoul]
    #3098007 - 09/06/04 06:48 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

IMO, Satanism isn't a religion. It doesn't reconnect people, and that's the meaning of re-ligare. It might be a philosophy (i.e. hedonism), but it ain't no religion.


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It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.

- Aristotle


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OfflineTodcasil
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Re: Has that 80's satanism completely been forgoten? [Re: Alan Stone]
    #3098107 - 09/06/04 08:53 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

pure selfishness can reconnect people.

the complete and polar opposite of compassion (which connects people) can and will connect you, in the end/long run.

and i believe satanism is a religion, they worship something (themselves) have a protective spirit (satan) they practice ritual, and although its not the great hermetic style ritual you might have associated with stanism (due to popular myths or media) they have a simplistic style that allows for greater amounts of manipulation/selfishness.

even my beliefs state that we are all god, so what a satanist is doing is taking a peice of that knowledge (he/she is god) and optimizing it. its not an easier path, nor is it a widely respected one, but all paths in the end are to achieve the same enightenment. no one is going to hell, unless they already are there.

peace


--------------------
Men look at themselves and they see flawed humans, we look at women and we see perfect
GODDESSES
Women look at themselves and they seem utterly human, when looking at men they see proud
GODS.


~Casil



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InvisibleRipple
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Re: Has that 80's satanism completely been forgoten? [Re: Northernsoul]
    #3098341 - 09/06/04 10:58 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

I agree I just don't see it anymore...............good post.


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The bus came by and I got on that's when it all began!



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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Has that 80's satanism completely been forgoten? [Re: Northernsoul]
    #3098367 - 09/06/04 11:07 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Actually, with black metal (bands like Immortal, Burzum, Mayhem etc) came a different kind of Satanism, which a lot of my friends got caught up into. They basically embraced ignorance and belligerance, in the name of satanism, to have a good excuse to act like a moron and do stupid things. Whatever happened to smart Satanists, they at least had some respect.

So, Satanism hasn't been forgotten, it's just gotten worse, like most religions.

They are too anti-christianity for their own good.


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Invisiblemuse_sick
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Re: Has that 80's satanism completely been forgoten? [Re: DoctorJ]
    #3098593 - 09/06/04 12:55 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

DoctorJ said:
Lucifer is a pretty decent guy. he just gets a bad rap.





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:beakedwhale:


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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Re: Has that 80's satanism completely been forgoten? [Re: muse_sick]
    #3099785 - 09/06/04 06:12 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

satanism is pretty cool in my understanding, although its not what youd ususally think.

Satanism is simply a belief in human power and the right to use it as we see fit. It believes that creating a 'higher being' and then following its commands is simply a method for robbing us of our power and controlling the Masses. Satanism is a recognition of the 'lower/animal/human/emotional/physical' side of life and embracing it. Satanism believes that the myths of things like physical gratification and emotions like rage or hate etc being bad are simply lies.

Satanism is a religion that preaches personal power, rebellion against enslavement, embracing all aspects of life etc

It is more properly called Setian or something like that.

Personally i Think its fine and i follow most of its tenents without feeling the need to call myself 'satanist' or pray to any other being etc.


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Offlinekadakuda
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Re: Has that 80's satanism completely been forgoten? [Re: Moonshoe]
    #3100603 - 09/06/04 10:07 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

as much as i try and be open minded and not generalize, i think that if you see a kid in the "goth" getup it isnt anywhere near a goth. gothism usd to be HUGE religion, and would probably be teh major one today if christianity didnt rise.

personally i think that using yourself as an excus for doing somthing is far ebtter than saying god did. look back soem hundreds of years ago. look how many slaughters, hangings, wars and shit were caused because "god" said this, and doesnt liek that. its all bullshit IMO. the god they preach at the churches here aperently want equal rights, freeom, no diseas/famine etc... that is almost the exact opposite of what they preached earlier last millenium.

i fi wanted to go hang a withc, id at least believe it was under my own power and mind. im not gonna say the supreme being told me to. anyway kind of a rant. went to church and got really pissed off. sorry, peace all.


--------------------
The seeds you won't sow are the plants you dont grow.


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InvisiblePapaverS
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Re: Has that 80's satanism completely been forgoten? [Re: kadakuda]
    #3100873 - 09/06/04 11:13 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

kadakuda said:
as much as i try and be open minded and not generalize, i think that if you see a kid in the "goth" getup it isnt anywhere near a goth.  gothism usd to be  HUGE religion, and would probably be teh major one today if christianity didnt rise.




Hmm...

I don?t exactly know what "gothism" is as a religious movement, but my understanding of Goth is that it evolved as a stylistic splinter of the late Punk movement around the early eighties with bands such as Bauhaus, and certain proto-goth aspects of the seventies; examples of which could be seen in Alice Cooper, the Rocky Horror Picture Show, and even David Bowie, which all seemed to share revivalist interest the aesthetic of old RKO and Hammer horror films.

It largely seemed to an aesthetic embrace of the dark/black look brought about by Punk, and morphed from a fascination from black leather to latex and eventually into ruffles and lace. The subject matter seems to be rather romanticist and centered around gothic horror, whose roots can be traced back to the various romanticist writers and artists of the 18-19th centuries.

It seems, to me, to be a perfectly acceptable style for adoption by a youth culture, out of the multitude of styles now available for young people to adopt in a largely pluralist society. In other words, to each his/her own.

I?ve never thought of it as having strong and organized religious connections, although I?m sure the various individuals and groups who adopt it as a style have a wide variety of personal and ever-shifting religious beliefs. And, I?m not really up on the current goth scene as it is practiced in high schools, so it may have changed, and become some sort of big organized religious thing, but I tend to doubt it.

It seems to me to be a stylistic movement, with certain interests in the gothic nature of romanticist art and literature of the past, with a touch of recycling from movies and television from the past century. I think this is extremely evident among the cosplay kids in Japan; where goth has become a highly-refined fashion sub-industry. These kids study the "Gothic & Lolita Bible" religiously (it?s a fashion guide/magazine NOT a religious text), and dawn the latest goth outfits to hang out in Harajuku to be seen and photographed.

I actually find goth to be one of the more interesting, imaginative, and nuanced, fashion trends out there, among the youth, and I always have, ever since some of my friends started following the punk thing in the late seventies. I?ve always appreciated it as a spectator, and an artist who is interested in good visuals.



* * *


Anyways, on the satanist thing, which is what attracted me to this thread. I can remember all the media-hype surrounding alleged satanic ritual abuse in day-care centers and elsewhere in this country back in the eighties. It was the most amazing thing. There were dozens of major trials in which people were accused of ritual satanic abuse of children, and much media-hype about how all our kids were practicing satanism. It was really an off-the-hook level of mass-media hysteria.

I can remember one summer, shortly after I moved to Boise, Idaho, back in the late eighties, when the big running story on the local news all summer was about how domestic cats were mysteriously disappearing because the city?s teenagers where sacrificing them to the devil. The local news was just convinced that all the kids were satanists.

They even made a big thing about finding a miniature stonehenge-like circle of rocks in the foothills, and about how this was built by teenage satanists (actually, it was built by some friends of mine who were art students). Interestingly enough, one night I saw a news story about how it turned out to be coyotes in the foothills that were nabbing the cats, because of changes in the local food-chain brought about by a recent drouth where bringing the coyotes down from the foothills looking for food. Hell, any old farmer could have told them that. The important thing was, it was NOT teenage satanists stealing the cats.

It should be noted that, typical of the media, it was a very small retraction after a long hot summer of pure media-fueled hysteria. I found the whole thing quite amusing... :wink:


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Offlinekadakuda
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Re: Has that 80's satanism completely been forgoten? [Re: Papaver]
    #3101591 - 09/07/04 01:56 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

thats halarious.  cats go missing here and we figure its coons, cougars, or good ol' Wiley.

dotn get me wrong i have no problem with any way anyone may choose to dress.  it just rubs me the wrong way when they call tehmselves gothic becaus tehy wear dark clothes and black makeup.  im sure some are, but im also sure a lot are not.  the schools i went to they called tehmselves "gothic" , some even went as far as to call tehm selves wiccan.  its absurd.  it would be like me wearing a fancy silk robe and calling myself catholic.  i know being "goth" is just the new word now and often doesnt mean your of gothic religion, but still.  just somthing i decided to bitch about i guess  :smirk:

its probably all a fad.  liek the "homies", "trekies", "twinkies", "jocks" etc etc.  it seems once the person hits mid twenties they finally start to dress comfortable and jsut not give a fuck  :tongue:

again i have no problem with dresswear, just saying you are somthing you are not.

peace all.


--------------------
The seeds you won't sow are the plants you dont grow.


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InvisiblePapaverS
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Re: Has that 80's satanism completely been forgoten? [Re: kadakuda]
    #3102900 - 09/07/04 01:07 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

kadakuda said:
thats halarious.  cats go missing here and we figure its coons, cougars, or good ol? Wiley.




It was the times. They were pretty darned goofy, and that was what originally attracted my attention to this thread, "Satanism in the 80s." I had forgotten all about all that goofy stuff until I saw the thread title. Even though, I think NorthernSoul was referring to commercial heavy-metal marketing, and not media-fueled witch-hunts.

I seem to recollect, that for a few years, you couldn?t turn on the news without hearing stories about trials involving satanic ritual abuse; usually the ultimate victims were the hapless owners of some day-care facility at the sharp end of the public hysteria stick.

The interesting thing about those "witch-hunts," of the media-saturated late-twentieth-century, was not that they were driven by superstitious fundamentalist christians -- although, I?m sure they had a hand in it -- but that they were mostly driven by practitioners of the new religion of "social science." The accusers were largely social workers, hypno-therapists, psychologists, criminologists, et cetera, and of course modern journalists run amok like Geraldo Rivera -- so called educated people -- the new priests of the post-darwin order.

The human being is a linguistic entity, a story teller, and as such we are always sitting around the glow of the campfire (or the television) creating mythologies to make sense out of that which we don?t understand. This is all well and good, but at some point, things always tend to go horribly wrong... :smirk:

* * *


Regarding "gothism," I?m not much of a religious scholar, but I can?t find any record of a historical religion called "gothism." Are you speaking of the religious practices of certain first-millennial euro/germanic-tribes such as the visigoths and ostrogoths?

I think our contemporary use of the word ?"gothic" (from which "goth," as a stylistic label, is derived) largely stems from a style of european architecture employing a pointed arch, and often used in the construction of cathedrals in the middle-ages. After the european renaissance, the romantic movements in painting and literature adopted an interest in decaying gothic architecture as a response to neoclassicism. The romanticists, as a personality type, are generally more interested in organic decay (symbolized by gothic ruins), the mysteries of the universe, sublimity, and the resulting emotional rush of contemplating and mythologizing such things, than in the attempts to dominate and control nature, like the neoclassicists who strive to make order out of chaos.

These romanticist movements in literature and art, from the 18-19th centuries, were largely responsible for the creation of the "gothic horror" genre in literature; whose semiotics later re-appeared in the movies, television, and pulp literature, which fed the imaginations of many adolescents during the twentieth century, until it started to appear in music and fashion; ultimately, culminating in the "Goth"-style as an offshoot of the punk-style in the late-seventies/early-eighties.

It?s largely just a bunch of kids wanting to return to the aesthetic sensibilities of Byron, Shelly, E. A. Poe, the Pre-Raphaelites, et cetera; not entirely a bad goal from my personal aesthetic perspective -- being more of a romanticist, than a classicist, at heart.

There may be a "goth" religion, but I really can?t find it under that label. Unless, it is simply the historic religious practices of the visigoths, et al.


"The Ruins of Eldena Monastery," ca. 1801, Casper David Friedrich (Romantic painter)


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Has that 80's satanism completely been forgoten? [Re: Papaver]
    #3102931 - 09/07/04 01:20 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Papaver said:
I actually find goth to be one of the more interesting, imaginative, and nuanced, fashion trends out there, among the youth, and I always have, ever since some of my friends started following the punk thing in the late seventies. I've always appreciated it as a spectator, and an artist who is interested in good visuals.





I think I definitely will agree here. I mean, whatever the motivations of the people appearing in this fashion, at least there is more creativity and expression than just buying the latest Abercrombie and Fitch shirt with the newest, "funny" saying or logo.... etc. etc. etc.... *shrugs*

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


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Offlinekadakuda
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Re: Has that 80's satanism completely been forgoten? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #3104758 - 09/07/04 08:02 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

been a coupel years since i learned all this at school.  by the way i mad eup the word gothism, just meant gothis in a fancy way.  Gothic as a religion, according to our teacher, was mroe of a group of similar religions.  like that of christianity as it has many many different variations.  anglican, catholoc etc.  it was not as one thing such as say Roman catholic.  i am relearning lots baout what school has tought me though.  they really dont seem to knwop their stuff too well, so i may just be passing on pure bull shit?  made sense though.

anyway breaks over :frown:  back in the sun.


--------------------
The seeds you won't sow are the plants you dont grow.


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