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 ninjapixie
newbie
Registered: 02/06/04
Posts: 417
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 To those who've experienced egoloss 
#3370241 - 11/16/04 05:48 PM (19 years, 5 months ago) |
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Something thats totally confused me:
When some people experience egoloss, they often refer to it as being ecstatic, full of love and bliss.
But if egoloss is oneness/unity etc.
And love/bliss etc are polar opposites of hate/agony etc
True egoloss/oneness can't be all love/bliss because you are in a polar position and therefore aren't really experiencing oneness at all. Oneness would be to experience both love/hate, bliss/agony etc at the same time.
Yet oneness itself is a polar opposite to separatness.
What now? I'm confused.
Further implication:
The buddhists talk of the so called middle way. How can there be a middle way when whatever path you take will have its polar opposite?
If there are an infinite number of paths/ways, there can never be a middle way because infinity has no centre, no middle. In fact, you could say every way is the middle way if there are an infinite number of ways.
Is there a particular path we should be following?
Is there a particular goal (oneness) we should be striving towards?
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Put that monkey back in the oven.
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trendal
J♠
Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 20,815
Loc: Ontario, Canada 
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Re: To those who've experienced egoloss [Re: ninjapixie]
#3370276 - 11/16/04 05:53 PM (19 years, 5 months ago) |
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I don't think you experience the emotions of love or bliss during ego loss...but the memory of ego loss can be VERY peaceful, blissful, or full of a profound love.
While you're there...there really isn't much to experience except experience itself 
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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb
Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 38,173
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Re: To those who've experienced egoloss [Re: trendal]
#3370300 - 11/16/04 05:57 PM (19 years, 5 months ago) |
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ego loss is a confusion of terms like break through, it means really stoned to the point of dysfunction.
the middle way is a direction that keeps shifting, it is a good path to follow, non-absolute by any terms.
point yourself there when lost, and then point yourself there again.
it could happen 300 times per day, more or less.
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 _  🧠 _ 
Edited by redgreenvines (11/16/04 05:58 PM)
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ninjapixie
newbie
Registered: 02/06/04
Posts: 417
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Re: To those who've experienced egoloss [Re: trendal]
#3370335 - 11/16/04 06:03 PM (19 years, 5 months ago) |
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Why would the memory of egoloss be so blissful/peaceful?
And why would you want to achieve it as some sort of end-goal where you can't look back at it as a memory and experience the feelings of bliss?
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Put that monkey back in the oven.
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trendal
J♠
Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 20,815
Loc: Ontario, Canada
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Re: To those who've experienced egoloss [Re: ninjapixie]
#3370374 - 11/16/04 06:08 PM (19 years, 5 months ago) |
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It's hard to imagine just how much of "you" your Ego is. I certainly wasn't prepared for my first ego-loss. It lasts an eternity and yet only a second. I can't reflect on anything while "there", as if my capacity for introspection were entirely removed. So it is only after Ego returns that I can reflect on what I have just experienced. Inevitably, the emotional component of that memory comes from the first few seconds after my Ego returns...which are usually spent in a blissfully calm state of being.
It isn't an end-goal. I try not to have any end-goals, just stepping stones. Why would I want to repeat it? Simply for the experience. I've never come accross anything like it...it is entirely unique to me.
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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.
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ninjapixie
newbie
Registered: 02/06/04
Posts: 417
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Re: To those who've experienced egoloss [Re: trendal]
#3370417 - 11/16/04 06:15 PM (19 years, 5 months ago) |
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But why does it feel so blissful after? Is it because you think that's where you're going to end up when you die and it isn't as bad as you thought it would be?
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Put that monkey back in the oven.
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In(di)go
People of the sun.
Registered: 10/29/00
Posts: 8,157
Loc: Cologne, Germany
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Re: To those who've experienced egoloss [Re: ninjapixie]
#3370433 - 11/16/04 06:17 PM (19 years, 5 months ago) |
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i think once the ego (the ilusion of separateness from the light) is lost, the only thing that is left is light/love/bliss...
remember that we came here to experience god, and to experience oneness... in order to do that we have to come into the ilusion of not being one... and it is only in this ilusion that negatives such as darkness or hate exist... so once you remove yourself from the ilusion the only thing that is left is oneness (which we can experience as oneness because we remember the ilusion of not being one)... in short, in the ultimate truth there is only love/light/bliss... but we wouldnt be able to experience it if it weren't for this ilusion of duality...
i hope i could make myself more or less clear here...
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trendal
J♠
Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 20,815
Loc: Ontario, Canada
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Re: To those who've experienced egoloss [Re: ninjapixie]
#3370463 - 11/16/04 06:22 PM (19 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
ninjapixie said:
But why does it feel so blissful after? Is it because you think that's where you're going to end up when you die and it isn't as bad as you thought it would be?
No, not at all. For me, it's the clarity of mind and utter calmness I feel while returning to my "normal" self. During those few brief moments, when you can THINK again and reflect on what is going on but when your Ego has still not fully returned...you can realize some pretty major things about you and your life that you may never have even imagined existed
Ahh, and there we go! Ego-loss is not an end, it is a beginning!
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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.
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 JacquesCousteau
Being.
Registered: 06/10/03
Posts: 7,825
Loc: Everywhere, Everytime.
Last seen: 1 year, 11 months
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Re: To those who've experienced egoloss [Re: ninjapixie]
#3370471 - 11/16/04 06:23 PM (19 years, 5 months ago) |
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The build up to ego loss is an anxiety-ridden rollercoaster.
Ego loss itself is the feeling of this tremendous weight being lifted off of your shoulders.
For me, the overwhelming happiness resultant was not because it "wasn't so bad" but because it was wonderful. Furthermore, it's not the idea that it might be where I end up when I die, but the idea that I might be able to achieve it on a daily basis.
Basically, it was proof to me that there was something more than just my ego.. and that if I practice enough, someday I will be able to put myself in that state at will.
This is an extremely relieving concept, because it means that at any given time when I feel incredibly stressed and just want relief from life in general, that there IS A WAY OUT.
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JacquesCousteau
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Re: To those who've experienced egoloss [Re: trendal]
#3370487 - 11/16/04 06:26 PM (19 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
trendal said:
No, not at all. For me, it's the clarity of mind and utter calmness I feel while returning to my "normal" self. During those few brief moments, when you can THINK again and reflect on what is going on but when your Ego has still not fully returned...you can realize some pretty major things about you and your life that you may never have even imagined existed
That too. I ramble like a little kid after ego loss. Whoever's around me has to endure about 4 hours of me endlessly stretching to define what I experienced in that moment-and-eternity of ego loss... and all the while my brain is on overdrive and I can ALWAYS think of exactly the word I need at the exact right time... so it just keeps coming and coming and coming...
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ninjapixie
newbie
Registered: 02/06/04
Posts: 417
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Re: To those who've experienced egoloss [Re: In(di)go]
#3370500 - 11/16/04 06:28 PM (19 years, 5 months ago) |
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My problem with your statement is that is assumes love/light/bliss is the only truth. One can just as easily say that hate/angony are the only truths and love/light are illusions.
The thing is, bliss/agony, love/hate are defined by one another. We only know what bliss is because we've experienced agony, and vice versa. They are explicitly different but implicitly the same, like the tao's ying yang.
Oneness is knowing they are the same, love/hate, self/other because they can't exist without each other. Which is why I can't see how egoloss/oneness can only be love.
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Put that monkey back in the oven.
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ninjapixie
newbie
Registered: 02/06/04
Posts: 417
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Re: To those who've experienced egoloss [Re: JacquesCousteau]
#3370537 - 11/16/04 06:35 PM (19 years, 5 months ago) |
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You say the feeling of egoloss is a weight lifted off your shoulders which implies there is a feeling to egoloss itself, and not just a feeling you experience after. I thought ego is needed to feel anything.
So egoloss makes you feel good because you know there is an escape when things aren't going too well? Good answer. But there are lots of other ways to escape.
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Put that monkey back in the oven.
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In(di)go
People of the sun.
Registered: 10/29/00
Posts: 8,157
Loc: Cologne, Germany
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Re: To those who've experienced egoloss [Re: ninjapixie]
#3370540 - 11/16/04 06:35 PM (19 years, 5 months ago) |
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it's not "only love"... it's the experience that love and hate are actually the same feeling at completely different ends of it... and when the ego is lost comes the realisation that there is only one feeling, and that the "line" on which hate and love are opposite ends of becomes a circle leaving only one feeling... upon returning to the "polar" world the knowing of this oneness is experienced as bliss... you cannot of course label or judge the experience of ego loss, because the mere concept of love and hate or every other feeling arises from the ego itself... the moment of egolessness is a moment of only beeing (free of labels and judgments) where thoughts have no room...
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JacquesCousteau
Being.
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Posts: 7,825
Loc: Everywhere, Everytime.
Last seen: 1 year, 11 months
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Re: To those who've experienced egoloss [Re: ninjapixie]
#3370573 - 11/16/04 06:41 PM (19 years, 5 months ago) |
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No, there aren't. Not like this, anyway.
It's not the same as escape. I do lots of things to escape... post on forums (hah), smoke weed, play video games.
This is not an escape.. it's an acceptance. A surrender. When you offer no resistance, you feel no tension and no stress.
This lack of tension, lack of stress, that is what is so great. It's not the presence of anything, that's what people mean when they say it is "nothing".. it's the opposite of SOMETHING.
Stress, tension, they are examples of something. These are the things I "learn to lose" through ego loss.
Edit: Indigo is on the money too.. his answers combined with my answers = a better elaboration of what I'm trying to say.
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ninjapixie
newbie
Registered: 02/06/04
Posts: 417
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Re: To those who've experienced egoloss [Re: In(di)go]
#3370591 - 11/16/04 06:44 PM (19 years, 5 months ago) |
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You seem to imply there is this 'one feeling' when you realise love and hate are the same. What is this feeling? Is it a feeling? Is there something beyond love/bliss etc. Then you go on to say the feeling of bliss only comes after the experience. I'm confused.
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Put that monkey back in the oven.
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ninjapixie
newbie
Registered: 02/06/04
Posts: 417
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Re: To those who've experienced egoloss [Re: JacquesCousteau]
#3370607 - 11/16/04 06:48 PM (19 years, 5 months ago) |
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Ok so its not quite an escape.
But it is sounding more and more like death where you lose everything. A death you come back from extremely happy.
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Put that monkey back in the oven.
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trendal
J♠
Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 20,815
Loc: Ontario, Canada
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Re: To those who've experienced egoloss [Re: ninjapixie]
#3370621 - 11/16/04 06:50 PM (19 years, 5 months ago) |
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A death you come back from extremely happy.
Not necessarily. I have friends who have had ego-loss once and don't wish to repeat it.
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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.
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In(di)go
People of the sun.
Registered: 10/29/00
Posts: 8,157
Loc: Cologne, Germany
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Re: To those who've experienced egoloss [Re: ninjapixie]
#3370638 - 11/16/04 06:52 PM (19 years, 5 months ago) |
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i don't think it is a feeling... feeling is just the word that comes closest to describing what it is... it is the absence and presence of everything... the divine dichotomy...
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Huehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly
Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,689
Loc: On the Border
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Re: To those who've experienced egoloss [Re: trendal]
#3370644 - 11/16/04 06:53 PM (19 years, 5 months ago) |
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The only people who have experienced "ego loss" are dead. A living human retains an ego no matter what...maybe not a strong domineering ego, but an ego all the same. I think this notion is very misunderstood.
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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
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ninjapixie
newbie
Registered: 02/06/04
Posts: 417
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Re: To those who've experienced egoloss [Re: trendal]
#3370658 - 11/16/04 06:56 PM (19 years, 5 months ago) |
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So this much sought after experience by all eastern religions isn't always a good thing? Bliss etc are not always associated with egoloss and so the ultimate truth is not all love? Or were they just unprepared individuals outside of the norm?
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Put that monkey back in the oven.
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