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OfflineSeussA
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Egoloss
    #1993345 - 10/09/03 02:57 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

I was reading some ancient Zen texts last night and pulled a few versus out to share that relate to egoloss/oneness:

On Believing in Mind, by Seng T'san  (~612):

The perfect way knows no difficulties except that it refuses to make preferences; only when freed from hate and love does it reveal itself fully, and without disguise.

[snip]

And when oneness is not thoroughly understood, in two ways loss is sustained: the denying of reality is the asserting of it, and the asserting of emptiness is the denying of it.

[snip]

Abide not with dualism, carefully avoid pursuing it.  As soon as you have right and wrong, confusion ensues, and emptyness is lost


Song of Enlightenment by Yoka Daishi  (~713):

When reality is attained, it is seen to be without an ego-substance and devoid of all forms of objectivity, and thereby all karma which leads us to the lowest hell is instantly wiped out.

[snip]

Here one sees neither sin nor bliss, neither loss nor gain;  In the midst of the eternally serene no idle questions are invited.

[snip]

All melts away and I find myself suddenly within the unthinkable itself.


:heart: 


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.


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Offlinelucid
Jack's AlteredConsciousness

Registered: 03/29/03
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Re: Egoloss [Re: Seuss]
    #1996557 - 10/10/03 11:29 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

I'm about to post a thread about my meditative experiences.
Simply my unbiased view of what I discovered while abiding
in deep meditation.
I discovered that the state that I entered was not at all
like those described by popular New-Age Spiritual types,
or ancient Zen/Buddhist masters or other Mystics.
What I entered was quite different from ordinary conciousness
- so yes the mind is able to quiet down remarkably well all
by itself (i.e. without coersion). However, it was extreemly
blank and marked by an undercurrent of unpleasentness.
One more thing, at times during deep meditation, things no
longer seem familiar, e.g. I was meditating amongst trees
in a park and I could no longer distinguish individual
trees, things tend to merge in and out till u sometimes don't
recognize things anymore - such is the nature of ego loss...
But, of course, this is simply one mans experience on
meditation. Perhaps, I'm "doing it all wrong" (altho I literally
am not trying anything at all while meditating), or perhaps
it could be argued that my ego is still intact and
torturing me (but that's the cliche catch - 22 argument
of all the Enlightened sages making big bucks off of their
sales of Unlimited Bliss :smirk: ).
In any case, I used to be a big advocate of meditation.
I no longer have an opinion on whether to meditate or not,
however, I feel it's important to share our experiences
truthfully without monatary gain. So thus was my experience :smile:


--------------------
"no-mind un-thinks no-thought..."


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Egoloss [Re: lucid]
    #1996571 - 10/10/03 11:33 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

lucid said:
However, it was extreemly
blank and marked by an undercurrent of unpleasentness.




The ego was still flowing.. leggo ya ego! :grin:
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Offlinelucid
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Re: Egoloss [Re: fireworks_god]
    #1996602 - 10/10/03 11:41 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

fireworks_god said:
Quote:

lucid said:
However, it was extreemly
blank and marked by an undercurrent of unpleasentness.




The ego was still flowing.. leggo ya ego! :grin:
Peace. 



:lol:
read the whole post, I already mentioned this catch-22 reasoning... :grin:

Interesting, New-Age people have defined the ego as pain, so if
one is in any kind of pain/unpleasentness by definition they're
holding onto the ego :rolleyes: anyone versed in logic will see
how ridiculous that line of reasoning is. Once something is
defined as such, well then words plays abound. Like enjoying pain...
well NO ONE enjoys Pain, if u define pain as being unenjoyable...
Masochists simply like the sensations normally associated with
pain, so for them it's not pain. It's like listening to music,
it's a auditory sensation, some people will like it others wont.
got it ?

If ego is defined as sense of self on the other hand and an
identification with beliefs etc (e.g. I am a good person,
I am succsesful, a faliure etc), then in my/the experience
of deep meditation a complete lack of sense of self was
noted, accompanied by inability to recognize visual, auditory
patterns and a sense of constant unpleasentness.
This is as far as I can describe the experience.
Judge it, label it or take it as u will...


--------------------
"no-mind un-thinks no-thought..."


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Egoloss [Re: lucid]
    #1997358 - 10/10/03 03:29 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Interesting, New-Age people have defined the ego as pain, so if one is in any kind of pain/unpleasentness by definition they're
holding onto the ego



No, it's not that. It's just if you can experience emotions such as fear, happiness, anger, etc. then you are still holding on to your ego. If you are completely egoless, then there is no individual to experience these emotions.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Egoloss [Re: silversoul7]
    #1997387 - 10/10/03 03:37 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Many moons ago I used to teach kids (and adults) to swim. I noticed something when teaching kids to float on their backs... I would hold them in the proper position, getting them to relax, and then slowly lower my hands out from under their back. They would float just fine until they realized that there was nothing holding them up... once they realized what they were doing, they would 'lock up' or panic and quickly sink. Once they got used to the idea of floating on their backs, it became very easy for them to do. Egoloss is a very similiar.


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Egoloss [Re: Seuss]
    #1997405 - 10/10/03 03:41 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Seuss said:
Many moons ago I used to teach kids (and adults) to swim.  I noticed something when teaching kids to float on their backs...  I would hold them in the proper position, getting them to relax, and then slowly lower my hands out from under their back.  They would float just fine until they realized that there was nothing holding them up... once they realized what they were doing, they would 'lock up' or panic and quickly sink.  Once they got used to the idea of floating on their backs, it became very easy for them to do.  Egoloss is a very similiar. 




Ahh, floating... I need to like do that sometime. I never really could, but I really want to try now.. :grin:

Thanks for saying that, man, I would have never thought about the concept of floating for a long time, it is a nice thought!  :smile:
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineCleverName
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Re: Egoloss [Re: fireworks_god]
    #1997502 - 10/10/03 04:05 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

If you are in the future, then ego seems to be very substantial. If you are in the present the ego is a mirage, it starts disappearing.
-osho?


--------------------
if you can't find the truth right where you are, where else do you expect to find it?

this is the purpose


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Offlinelucid
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Re: Egoloss [Re: silversoul7]
    #1997519 - 10/10/03 04:08 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

silversoul7 said:
Quote:

Interesting, New-Age people have defined the ego as pain, so if one is in any kind of pain/unpleasentness by definition they're
holding onto the ego



No, it's not that. It's just if you can experience emotions such as fear, happiness, anger, etc. then you are still holding on to your ego. If you are completely egoless, then there is no individual to experience these emotions.




If there is no individual, than where is the entity that
functions in daily society ? How do u develop software,
talk, distinguish visual auditory patterns if there is
no individual ?
In any case, this is all very speculative, sure, maybe
my meditation was all ego-contrived, who's to say, I just
wanted to share my experience, whatever it was...
In it's purity.


--------------------
"no-mind un-thinks no-thought..."


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Egoloss [Re: lucid]
    #1997527 - 10/10/03 04:11 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

By "individual," I meant individual consciousness. "Selfhood," if you will. It's the sense of yourself as an individual, rather than as a part of the oneness that is the universe.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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