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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Space and Reality
    #3350465 -

Recently, after being introduced to deep thought while tripping by a friend, i found that there is so much in the world that i take for granted, and i dont even think about what i am doing most of the time, but just do it in a routine in my life.

I have been confused by the thought of 'what is around me'.
Sure, there are atoms surrounding this 'space', but what is space itself?
I can touch and feel space, i can experiance space, which tells me that space is a physical thing, which does exist. However, if nothing existed within this 'space', could i still say that space exists?
I have heard the term 'the fabric of space', but I am not sure what is meant by that. Only a small percentage of our surroundings is actually truly physical structures, i.e. atoms, but what is the rest of everything around is.
We occupy this 'space', but what is it really?
This makes me think that there can't be an actual edge on the universe, because the 'space' would just continue in all directions forever, and all that would be needed is something to occupy that space to make the space actually exist.


Another thought i have come across is that i take 'reality' for granted. I believe that all i see and touch is physical matter, but what if it is manifested by the conscious to make me think that i am in physical surroundings, where instead i could be in an altogether different plane of existence which i do not recognise.
For example, when dreaming, i believe that all i am seeing is real when strongly dreaming. I can be in a different place, in a different time, and if my dream is suddenly broken off and i wake up, i realise that everything i saw was not real, and that this reality is where my true conscious resides.
However, when thinking about this, i realised that this 'reality' could just as easily be a reality manifested by the conscious, and that my higher conscious resides on a different plane.

Sometimes when tripping, i feel that i am just about to wake up from this unreal reality and feel that i am becoming detached from all the things that absorb my mind to stop me from 'waking up' to see what is really there.

This makes me think that just as a dream is a type of reality in which i can exist, so is the place that i reside now, just another 'plane of reality', from which i will one day 'wake up' from, to realise what is really around me.

I could go on, but i don't know if I am entirely making sense to everyone. This language limits me to words that make it hard to describe my thoughts, without anyone else experiance these thoughts previously.

Thanks for hanging on ppz, feel free to post any thoughts on what i have just said.

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Re: Space and Reality [Re: Event_Horizon]
    #3350521 -

Interesting thoughts to ponder. :thumbup:

Myself, I don't think we can really understand right now what space exists in, what the opposite to space is that thereby allows space to exist, at least not through the analogy of space itself. We exist in space and have no physical experience of the yin that opposes and allows space to be. Would a fish with no experience of anything existing beyond water even know what water was, or even be aware of the fact that they were existing in it? :grin:

However, through other analogies we can at least grasp the concept. We have never experienced anything besides space, but we can at least conceive that we are existing in some dimension, and that it is existing in comparison to some other dimension. We can conceive of silence and we can conceive of sound, and we can realize that the sound comes forth from silence and exists within silence. The formless naturally springs forth that which has form... action requires a state of non-action...

Have you ever read into the concept of yin and yang, or of Tao? You might find some insight and understanding relative to these thoughts in such reading...

Form exists within the formless, formless exists within the form... The Creation exists within the Creator, the Creator exists within the creation.. two interdependant polarities in a constant state of change, creating one unchanging whole.... :grin:

I might be so bold as to contend that the yin to the yang that is space, physical reality, would be consciousness, awareness, but I'll leave it at that for now. :laugh:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


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:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Re: Space and Reality [Re: Event_Horizon]
    #3350529 -

You've taken a gigantic step towards drastically increasing your awareness of all that is. These very revelations are signs that you've awakened to some degree already.

Now for the hard part: don't go back to sleep.

Some good books to read right around now:

Illusions - By Richard Bach - Just trust me on this one.. basically relates the concept of understanding what seems impossible to understand through the use of metaphors. (Hint: the whole story is a metaphor.)

The Tao of Pooh - Relates Taoist concepts through the characters of winnie the pooh. Fun, and very informative.

The Te of Piglet - Relates a more specific area of study within Taoist concepts by comparison to the Winnie The Pooh character Piglet. (I'm a piglet.)

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Re: Space and Reality [Re: JacquesCousteau]
    #3350558 -

Tao: The Watercourse Way, by Alan Watts

Zen Flesh, Zen Bones

Read 'em! :wink:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Re: Space and Reality [Re: Event_Horizon]
    #3350575 -

Some other good books dealing with these subjects:

Hyperspace - Michio Kaku

The Elegant Universe - Brian Green (I HIGHLY reccomend this one)

The Fabric of the Cosmos - also by Brian Green, sort of a sequal to The Elegant Universe.


Personally, I don't think that "space" exists without the stuff in space (matter and energy). Space may just be a concept we use to describe separation between physical objects, but I don't think so.


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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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Re: Space and Reality [Re: trendal]
    #3350769 -

"space exists through relation of size and distance"
-unknown :P


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Disclaimer!?

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Re: Space and Reality [Re: Event_Horizon]
    #3350980 -

Well, of course 'the Red Pill' in 'The Matrix' is a reference to Gurdjieff's 'Fourth Way' and Psychedelics [mind-manifesting]. The Hindus have mythologized the universe as being dreamed by Vishnu, and I have my own take that everything in the manifest universe are ideas in the Mind of GOD. Even the age of a planet or a star is ephemeral compared to Eternity - no more substantial than a cloud to our human perception.

I'm not a mathematician, cosmologist or a physicist, but 'the fabric of space-time' is a metaphor for the interweaving of the axes of space and time. Space-time is characterized by 'extension,' mathematically, 'dimension.' Hence a mathematical idea of a point has no extension and is Zero dimension. Two points, if not superimposed immediately defines extension in One dimension, and further extension designates a mathematical line segment. That theoretical line extending simultaneously in any vector other than its own linear dimension begins to describe Two dimensions - planes. When all points that comprise the 2-dimensional plane simultaneously move in a vector other than the planar dimension, a solid or 3-dimensional reality emerges. A cube, for example, unfolding into a further dimension has been described as a 'teseract' and dimensions can theoretically continue to unfold perhaps infinitely, unless some unknown limiting principle exists.

A point, a singularity which extends in infinite dimensions, simultaneously, would create a sphere. If the expansion is not simultaneous, perhaps the shape of the universe is not an expanding sphere, but has another shape. Some cosmologists hold to this - the non-homogeneity of space-time, as do some mystic Kabbalists who say the universe is in the shape of a human being!
The boundary of space-time is expanding into the as-yet-unmanifest. It is not more space-time into which the universe is expanding since space-time is not infinite. I like to think that the universe is filling the Infinite Mind of GOD, but 'filling' is not really true any more than our dreams 'fill' the inside of our mind, and our mind is NOT our brain. Mind, fascinatingly enough, also has NO Extension in space-time. You don't have a skull-full of mind. It seems to some that the mysterious Absolute into which the physical universe is expanding, and the reality of our own 'awareness' is the same Reality. That means that our beinghood and GOD both consist of Awareness - finite and Infinite Awareness respectively. Can this be proved empirically? No more than a dream can prove the existence of the dreamer.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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Re: Space and Reality [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #3351049 -

The reality we see is likely completely different than that which actually exists. Atoms are mostly empty space...

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Re: Space and Reality [Re: the_phoenix]
    #3351261 -

"empty space is colorful"
-unknown :P


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Disclaimer!?

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Re: Space and Reality [Re: Event_Horizon]
    #3351270 -

As above, so below
As within, So without

- Thoth


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Re: Space and Reality [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #3351399 -

fireworks_god said:
I might be so bold as to contend that the yin to the yang that is space, physical reality, would be consciousness, awareness, but I'll leave it at that for now. :laugh:


MarkostheGnostic said:
That means that our beinghood and GOD both consist of Awareness - finite and Infinite Awareness respectively.


:laugh: :thumbup: :grin: :mushroom2:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Re: Space and Reality [Re: fireworks_god]
    #3351469 -

yin -yang could be 3 equals? :P

imagine holding 3 straws betwean pointing finger and thumb, and psessing down the 3 it make a yin - yang kinda :P hehe
dunno why, just did it? :P



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Disclaimer!?

Edited by Gomp (11/12/04 12:32 PM)

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Re: Space and Reality [Re: Gomp]
    #3355010 -

But what about the circles in each one? :wink:

Also, the seperating borders (which, in your example, would be the straws) are merely an illusion, they aren't actually seperate. :laugh:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Re: Space and Reality [Re: Event_Horizon]
    #3355145 -

Maybe if you keep thinking in hyperdimensional energy.

Something will happen.

Creating new d dimensions and reality metaprograms.

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Re: Space and Reality [Re: Event_Horizon]
    #3355843 -

total kindred spirit even horizon, you could be stealing those words out of my mind. in fact maybe you are, you freaky telekenetic agent.

but no, thats not right.

Yes the dream thing is something i spend way to much time thinking about. every single night we live in totally different worlds of experience, and every morning we wake up and go man what was that all about? THIS is what is real.

how easily then our mind seems to forget what it thinks is real, how easily it can move through different equally vivid realms of experience.

How can we say which is the 'true' reality, or even if there is a 'true' reality?

if were blind, we would not experience anytihng like colour, depth, etc. Does that mean that maybe, just maybe, those things have no existance outside of our ability to percieve them?

maybe, just maybe, perception is not seeing what is but rather our way of taking internal stuff and percieving it as external?

we see in our dreams with our eyes closed, so obviously sensation is not really reliant on sense- organs.

and yes what about waking up? maybe death is the waking up part? when that car hits us well sit up in our beds on some distant plane and go 'wow what a wierd dream! it seemed so real! oh well time to get up"

or maybe waking up is not a black white thing but a continuously unfolding process? i know the way i have seen reality and understood it has changed many times in my life. each of those stages were the result of some kind of waking up.

And yes AWARENESS! awareness is the key but oh so difficult. Must be as concious as we can in our actions and of our surroundings, or else we might miss the key...

'sprankton, a noun, a disease you get from chewing too much, sprankton, a noun..."

:rocket:


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Everything I post is fiction.

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Re: Space and Reality [Re: Moonshoe]
    #3355863 -

"yesterday I died, tomorrow I die, today no I ever was"
-unknown :P


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Disclaimer!?

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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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