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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 07/12/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
Re: Intuition fails the reality test [Re: Blastrid]
    #2155651 - 12/03/03 02:55 PM (20 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Blastrid said:
I always thought Intuition was immediate cognition, not pre-cognition.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=intuition

I don't think intuition gives you the ability to fortell upcoming dangerous events, as you specified.



I think the word "immediate" is misleading in this definition.
By immediate cognition, it means you're skipping a step between sensory input and understanding. That step is logical thought. It doesn't imply that there is a timeframe in which one understands {X}, it just means click-> understanding.

And you know this, HOWEVER, pre-cognition is not the alter ego of intuition (the "immediate" doesn't refer to an external timeline like the "pre-" does). As such, intuition CAN be used in conjunction with ideas like pre-cognition.

Language... so clear, so confusing.


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Note: In desperate need of a cure...

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InvisibleZero7a1
Leaving YourWasteland

Registered: 10/23/02
Posts: 3,594
Loc: Passing Cloud
Re: Intuition fails the reality test [Re: Sclorch]
    #2155874 - 12/03/03 03:53 PM (20 years, 7 months ago)

yeah... i found this thread to lead people astray... Again. To me this thread boils down to... that spider senses do not exist in the majority. Cause spider man has that immediate... o shit, yes, there is a missle coming, must move. Put in that terms, i think its all pretty easy to tell. But to say hmmmmm 6 hours from now because i know the towers will blow up... is a little different from saying shit this doesnt look good, (as they walk up to the building) . Cause it seems that this topic is trying to debunk intuition as connected with insitnct, rather than intuition related to precognition. I dont know, words for... the speechless?


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Offlinejoeshitragpicker
Home Sweet Home

Registered: 10/16/02
Posts: 1,265
Loc: Atlanta
Last seen: 10 years, 9 months
Re: Intuition fails the reality test [Re: Swami]
    #2156155 - 12/03/03 05:35 PM (20 years, 7 months ago)

Some thoughts on intuition:

Many times, people don't realize they acctually have or had an intuitive response untill they have already made a decision. This can be as simple as a chess move: (I knew I shouldnt have moved there!)
Trusing a gut instinct is in my opinion one of the most valuable things one can learn to do. It takes alot of practice, becasue its not easy to cancel out the logical part of the brain that we use in 99% of our daily waking life.
Why have natural disasters happened? WHy have thousands and thousands been killed?
Could it be Swami, that they had a feeling that morning on the way to work that told them not to go in that day, to call in sick? I believe that that is very possible. In fact, it is even more likely for people working in a white-collar, corporate enviornment to ignore this inner voice and proceed with daily routine.

Once again, you have produced a weak argument. I have not attempted to tell you that intuitive response IS real, becasue I dont have all the facts/examples, but since you have failed to disprove that is not real, explaining that people more often than not supres intuition has sufficed in removing the foundations of your viewpoints.


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Intuition fails the reality test [Re: joeshitragpicker]
    #2156252 - 12/03/03 06:23 PM (20 years, 7 months ago)

Many times, people don't realize they acctually have or had an intuitive response untill they have already made a decision. This can be as simple as a chess move: (I knew I shouldnt have moved there!)
Sorry, this is called second-guessing and is a pyschological dysfunction not intuition. If the person "knew" they would not have done it.

It takes alot of practice, becasue its not easy to cancel out the logical part of the brain that we use in 99% of our daily waking life.
I don't know where you live, but logic is not a large part of most people's lives. Even on this board it is a rare treat to encounter.

Why have natural disasters happened? WHy have thousands and thousands been killed?
Huh?

Could it be Swami, that they had a feeling that morning on the way to work that told them not to go in that day, to call in sick?
Who is "they"?

I believe that that is very possible.
It is very possible that you skipped a thought while writing.

In fact, it is even more likely for people working in a white-collar, corporate enviornment to ignore this inner voice and proceed with daily routine.
More likely than whom? The primitive societies that were wiped out listening to this inner voice? The blue collar workers on food stamps?

Once again, you have produced a weak argument.
Compared to your overwhelming argument.

I have not attempted to tell you that intuitive response IS real, becasue I dont have all the facts/examples,

Editor's Note: Some 35 posts and not one single argument pointing towards intuition.



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Anonymous

Re: Intuition fails the reality test [Re: Swami]
    #2156283 - 12/03/03 06:36 PM (20 years, 7 months ago)

Now I have got you; not that you will admit it of course as cleverness ifs more important than honesty.

ifs? Should that have been "is"?

Beyond that it really doesn't need a comment.

So the intuitive ones "see" so far into the future that a cancellation is not even an option. (So the future is fixed and free-will does not exist else the intuitors would be processing data up-to-the-minute and therefore might conceivably cancel - hence showing up on statistics.)

I would say yes.

One of the popular claims of intuitors is last-minute avoidance of danger which counters your far-seeing, non-cancelling, flight-avoiding intuitors.

Whenever you heard the phrase "one of the popular claims of _ _ _ _ _ " get ready for a straw man. Because more than likely your opponent is putting words in someone's mouth.

IF that is their claim, althought I have never heard them make that claim, the lack of last minute cancellations of airplane and ship trips would invalidate their claim.

I know you don't do links but do you have any references where intuitors claim to make last minute changes in plans?

Now, whether intuition is real or not makes absolutely no difference to me. I don't base any portions of my ideology on it. Most of the time I consider it fanciful.

But here's an anecdote from my childhood.

My mother used to tell us that "someone is coming over to visit" whenever her nose itched. Wacky, but true. Now she did this with consistency for over 20 years, with only one failure. These times could be late at night in the middle of the week, during the weekend, or whenever.

Not only did she make the "prediction" but many times would have us or just herself scurry around the house cleaning it up.

The single time the "nose trick" didn't work, I as her smartass son (much like you), quickly asked her why no one showed up.

She looked at me deadpan and said, "They must have changed their mind."

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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Intuition fails the reality test [Re: ]
    #2156342 - 12/03/03 07:00 PM (20 years, 7 months ago)

The single time the "nose trick" didn't work, I as her smartass son (much like you),

I am also her son? You know that I was adopted and never met my birth mom. *Gives MM a hug* Bro, is that really you?


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Anonymous

Re: Intuition fails the reality test [Re: Swami]
    #2156488 - 12/03/03 07:43 PM (20 years, 7 months ago)

No. I am an imposter.

The real MM left for parts unknown.

And the operative word in the aforementioned phrase was 'much', as in "alike in some regard".

:lol:
^^^ gratuitous laughing icon so as to be understood 

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Invisiblepsychopsilocyber
Male

Registered: 12/11/02
Posts: 1,020
Re: Intuition fails the reality test [Re: Swami]
    #2156565 - 12/03/03 08:12 PM (20 years, 7 months ago)

I dont think it would be assuming too much to say you're the type of person who believes in evolution. How many things/abilities do you have or can do that are not productive of evolution....Not very many(although the discovery of the a-bomb could percieved as a bad example) so this ability to have intuition must be of some importance. Although sometimes this ability of intuition is confused in the state of consciousness that is the energy stuggle of life (call it what you will).

It also might be good to disect the word intuition and look at the various ways one can use or misuse this creative ability if you really want to get into it, also sometimes creative can mean objective in this situation. Keep in mind (among other things) creativity is sometimes scarce, and common sence isnt so common. What exactly is intuition? Well, what exactly is memory?

Does anyone know how memory really works? They say your cells completely regenerate after about every 4 years, yet you can still remember past 4 years. So since nobady can tell me scientificly how memory works(if you can please do) I'll provide and maybe choose to believe my own definition.

My definition of memory: Your ability(possibility?) to see possibilities, it's easier to see possibilities if they've already happened, and what is the universe if not cause and effect?
Is it possible the ability to see possibilities is the same ability as intuition? If so, and you're looking at the possibilities of cause and effect is it possible to know the effect by looking at the cause, or vise versa? Well it is possible, or Newton wouldnt of discovered cause/effect in the first place.

Too many questions to answer you say? too many possibilities? dont think about it then, someone else will....What are you? what are someone else? Everyone is made of the everything. If you know quantum physic you know about "non-local communication." for me that's proof that the universe knows about itself, and it knows that it knows about itself (assuming everything is/was/will be one and considering the law of conservation of energy). AHHHHHHHHHHH even if you die, or space out your whole life the part of the universe which knows about knowing about itself will come ever closer to the part that knows everything about itself, I'm not sure if you have a choice between knowing and knowing about knowing (you could be drifting between the two as we think), maybe you could apply this to heaven hell, since a lot of you are cristian I might as well. Heaven is knowing, hell is not knowing about knowing (an illusion I think brought on by the pesamistic objective thinkers), the life that you experience to read this sentence is knowing about knowing, but not knowing, what is sleep? Meditation?

Everyone has a two that equals three..Three knows it doesnt come into existance until one imagines the possibility of two (two=more posibilities), but if zero can be seen as a variable than 1 means nothing in relation to time and space, these are all variables, it's just the imagination, and look how far it's come.

1+2=3, zero=x x=a variable made up by the possibility to see possibilities (me)
X= a square, be it black or white. 1=the piece, be it a pawn or a queen(though they are the same, in different stages of developement--just like the chicken and the egg, which came first the pawn or the queen? Different stages of developement. Once the game ends the pieces are set up again. and what is to be learned by playing with zeros and ones? knowledge is to be learned, maybe that's three, I havent figured this all out yet.

Edited by psychopsilocyber (12/03/03 08:30 PM)

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Invisiblepsychopsilocyber
Male

Registered: 12/11/02
Posts: 1,020
Re: Intuition fails the reality test [Re: Swami]
    #2156589 - 12/03/03 08:18 PM (20 years, 7 months ago)

I just noticed, if intuition takes place in time and space(reality) depending on how you look at the term intuition if you believe in evolution you could accept that intuition came far enough to question it's own existence, remember this is taking place in time and space here now. Please use your (or manipulate someone elses) ability to use intuition to put together the true test of all existance, because if existance is experiencing time/space from a personal perspective it kind of passed it's own reality test.

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Invisiblepsychopsilocyber
Male

Registered: 12/11/02
Posts: 1,020
Re: Intuition fails the reality test [Re: psychopsilocyber]
    #2156715 - 12/03/03 09:01 PM (20 years, 7 months ago)

Or maybe I got it wrong and zero plus one plus two equals 3, you need to establish a zero before you can tell where(who?) 1 is.  I'll say zero is the square of time/space, 1 is the piece on the square(the chicken/egg), and 2 is memory, unless I think of memory as a way of using intuition, but that wont work if intuition =3. No, no, three is the outcome, who wins this game of chess and why? Damnet now I remember they're all variables, it's how you choose to look at it i guess. And no I dont think I'm wasting my time...I'm content just thinking about thinking, or not thinking about thinking, or thinking about not thinking, or thinking about not thinking.... or thinking, or not thinking..... or writing what I think as I think it, that's cool too (for me that is, you dont have to read it but if you are reading this then you know what I'm talking about :grin: )

Edited by psychopsilocyber (12/03/03 09:07 PM)

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Anonymous

Re: Intuition fails the reality test [Re: psychopsilocyber]
    #2156839 - 12/03/03 09:45 PM (20 years, 7 months ago)

You lost me after, "I dont think...."

:grin:

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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Intuition fails the reality test [Re: psychopsilocyber]
    #2156895 - 12/03/03 10:08 PM (20 years, 7 months ago)

I dont think it would be assuming too much to say you're the type of person who believes in evolution.

I hope you did not INTUIT this! It is a HUGE and faulty assumption (as most are). When discussing evolution on one board, I was accused of being a creationist! That is also wrong. Nothing quite like labeling and prejudging and only seeing through set filters.


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InvisibleSkorpivoMusterion
Livin in theTwilight Zone...
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Registered: 01/30/03
Posts: 9,954
Loc: You can't spell fungus wi...
Re: Intuition fails the reality test [Re: Swami]
    #2156954 - 12/03/03 10:27 PM (20 years, 7 months ago)

I'm curious Swami, What IS your opinion on the subject in question? (evolution, etc )


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Invisiblepsychopsilocyber
Male

Registered: 12/11/02
Posts: 1,020
Re: Intuition fails the reality test [Re: Swami]
    #2156959 - 12/03/03 10:29 PM (20 years, 7 months ago)

Well you see I knew you'd say that so I left myself a little loop-hole with the "I dont think" part, and if that led to a dead end I could always back my way out with the whole "well what is s person, what is evolution, what are beliefs" thing that situation gives me the ability to loose your interest in what I'm talking about while I'm stuck in justification mode. But as you can see I chose the easy way out

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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Intuition fails the reality test [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #2156992 - 12/03/03 10:43 PM (20 years, 7 months ago)

Start a new thread and let's find out. :smile: 


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Intuition fails the reality test [Re: psychopsilocyber]
    #2156993 - 12/03/03 10:44 PM (20 years, 7 months ago)

Ah, the "old back door" trick!


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Anonymous

Re: Intuition fails the reality test [Re: Swami]
    #2157013 - 12/03/03 10:50 PM (20 years, 7 months ago)

Oy vey!

[throws up hands in disbelief]

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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Intuition fails the reality test [Re: ]
    #2157036 - 12/03/03 11:01 PM (20 years, 7 months ago)

Cool! A disbeliever - yeah!


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InvisibleZero7a1
Leaving YourWasteland

Registered: 10/23/02
Posts: 3,594
Loc: Passing Cloud
Re: Intuition fails the reality test [Re: Swami]
    #2157250 - 12/04/03 12:32 AM (20 years, 7 months ago)

my spider senses tell me that shannanigans will continue... :cool:


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OfflineViveka
refutation bias
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Registered: 10/21/02
Posts: 4,061
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Re: Intuition fails the reality test [Re: Swami]
    #2157856 - 12/04/03 10:21 AM (20 years, 7 months ago)

INTUITION can be defined in many DIFFERENT ways.
I like Kant's take on it where basically intuition defines the conditions which color your perception based on your previous experience. By that definition:

"That is caled sports savvy. I regularly whip young pups on the racquetball court; not becuase I have any special brain function, but becuase I have been doing it for 35 years. It is called "predictability and pattern recognition.""

is the same thing as INTUITION.




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