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Re: Chris Reeve: "I am going to walk again!" [Re: psyka]
    #3350181 -

I believe like many people who take life for granted...

Is that a negative thing? Should we go around all day long going "Thank God for my vision, my legs, my hearing, my prostate-fouled bladder, those long BrundleFly-like hairs growing out of my neck, those crusty little eye-boogers when you wake up in the morning, my arthritic back, my meager social security check, my nearly-defunct 258,000 mile 1972 orange Ford Pinto..."?

Or is it better to wait until we lose one of our precious commodities and THEN GO, "Holy Fuck!"?


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: Chris Reeve: "I am going to walk again!" [Re: Swami]
    #3350198 -

So christopher Reeve is such a loser right? Maybe he just didn't get the chance to walk. I think if conservative types all afraid about the ethical issues of stem cell research would actually wise up, it could possibly be acheivable.

re: the Ethical issue, anyone see Southpark where christopher reeve would suck the blood out of aborted fetuses to grow in strength into this real evil bastard? It was bloody hillarious!!

I'm not sure what your point is exactly swami? That prayer and self affirmations are useless? I don't actually have any scientific evidence to back me (and you're gonna quote that i know) but i think it's well accepted that people with faith in something are better off because of it and have a higher chance of acheiving their goals then someone who loses faith and doesn't give a shit. You can't disagree with that. And i'm nost saying it's some mystical religious crap that helps one out but just the believing in yourself.

Yeah reeve was real egotystical saying he will walk again - obviously meaning that he's better than all the other handycapped folk. I don't recall him ever saying that, maybe most of these guys that haven't lost hope yet cling on to the 0.0000000001% probability that they might walk again! DO they all think they're better than the rest? (yeh probably) or do they just assume that everyone has it in them if they just stay motivated and keep trying. That's what faith is believing in something you know isn't possible or real. But it gets you much further than not giving a shit..

Hmm I'm kindof repeating myself, probly cuz i don't get your point entirely.

Apart from how much he's helped the whole movement, some dude here said that he did manage to 'walk' despite being told he never would. Well there ya go right there, sure it wasn't real walking (he had to be supported) but it's doing something that was supposedly impossible.. so uh what's the difference exactly?

http://www.newmediaexplorer.org/sepp/2003/07/15/is_dna_hypercommunication_a_native_internet.htm

This site suggests that self affirmations can Physically alter one's body by affecting the dna and causing it to repair cells etc, (You need to read to about halfway.)

Although the research might be considered a bit far-out and new-age smelly hippy talk i still thought you might like to read it, seeing as you have such a fixation on the these wacky beliefs or just debunking them all.


--------------------
Look, let me explain something. I'm not Mr. Lebowski; you're Mr. Lebowski.
I'm the Dude. So that's what you  call me.  That, or Duder.  His  Dudeness.
Or El Duderino, if, you know, you're not into the whole brevity thing.

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Re: Chris Reeve: "I am going to walk again!" [Re: el_duderino]
    #3350207 -

I love my eye boogers, thank god for that. Or if i'm to take the eastern philosophy type thinking that we are all one, that you, he, she and i are all god, then 'thank me for that' and um all u guys too.

w00t eye boogers!


...right i'll shutup now.


--------------------
Look, let me explain something. I'm not Mr. Lebowski; you're Mr. Lebowski.
I'm the Dude. So that's what you  call me.  That, or Duder.  His  Dudeness.
Or El Duderino, if, you know, you're not into the whole brevity thing.

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Re: Chris Reeve: "I am going to walk again!" [Re: el_duderino]
    #3350211 -

That's what faith is believing in something you know isn't possible or real. But it gets you much further than not giving a shit..

Your false dichotomy aside; lets go to Ayer's Rock. You practice having faith that you can fly unaided and I will be the cynical skeptic (for a change). Let's see how much further you get as you leap off the cliff face...


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: Chris Reeve: "I am going to walk again!" [Re: Swami]
    #3350225 -

Quote:
Swami said:
I believe like many people who take life for granted...

Is that a negative thing? Should we go around all day long going "Thank God for my vision, my legs, my hearing, my prostate-fouled bladder, those long BrundleFly-like hairs growing out of my neck, those crusty little eye-boogers when you wake up in the morning, my arthritic back, my meager social security check, my nearly-defunct 258,000 mile 1972 orange Ford Pinto..."?

Or is it better to wait until we lose one of our precious commodities and THEN GO, "Holy Fuck!"?



Do you base the qualty of your life around accessories and commodities?

Sometimes we need a reminder, Swami.

Rebecca's Reminder
by Mattie Stepanek

It is sad
When a friend
Dies.
Death becomes
Suddenly
Painful.
Suddenly
Real.
Suddenly
Reminding.
When a friend
Dies,
Perhaps
We should
Suddenly
Remember
How real
Death is,
And wonder
How our
LIFE
Will be,
Suddenly,
Based on
How much of
A friend we are
Now,
Regularly


--------------------
As the life of a candle,
my wick will burn out.
But, the fire of my mind
shall beam into infinite.

Edited by psyka (11/12/04 04:46 AM)

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Re: Chris Reeve: "I am going to walk again!" [Re: psyka]
    #3350289 -

You practice having faith that you can fly unaided and I will be the cynical skeptic (for a change).

el_duderino probably could. astrally fly. thats unaided. and flying...something that he could have faith in...


--------------------
suicide a permanent solution to a temporary problem

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Re: Chris Reeve: "I am going to walk again!" [Re: spudamore]
    #3350307 -

What does flying have to do with what I said?


--------------------
As the life of a candle,
my wick will burn out.
But, the fire of my mind
shall beam into infinite.

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Re: Chris Reeve: "I am going to walk again!" [Re: psyka]
    #3350314 -

sorry it wasn't to you was refering to swami


--------------------
suicide a permanent solution to a temporary problem

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Re: Chris Reeve: "I am going to walk again!" [Re: Swami]
    #3350330 -

Ahaha funny guy you are (im not being sarcastic that did make me laugh).

Now to your question.
If i am a faithless shmuck that doesn't give a shit i'd do a half arsed jump and plummet to my death. If i have faith and truly believe i can fly I will jump with all my strength and plummet to my death a few meters further then my faithless self would. Thus going a bit further having my faith.

Maybe my wording was kinda stupid (I was paraphrasing from some quote i cant remember). Faith is more believing in something that you don't know for sure (not something you know isn't real).

So believing in the slim chance of regaining ability to walk, or that there is a life after death or whatever, because these are things you just don't know. If one believes that he can fly and doesn't know that he will fall to his death then yes he is a dumbass and in that case faith will not get him anywhere.

On a side note did you read my link? It's a bit of a long read but it could explain how faith and self affirmations physically make one healthier. Meaning that faith does get you further then hopelesness.

What's your point exactly anyway? That miracles don't happen and that? (which i probably agree with) or that Faith and self belief is a dumb idea. Lets just be pessimistic with no hope for a brighter future.

Lets turn to good ol' logic and rationality that explains everything real good and lets us know we're all ultimately fucked but doesn't proived any 'hope' for a future like uh.. hope and faith does.
Lets be sceptical about all unexplained phenomena and conclude that they must be untrue cuz we don't understand how they could happen (...yet)

(I'm not saying that we should be faithful to our beliefs and ignore logic and reason but hope is something we all need especially in these times).


You must excuse me for any dumbass-ness in the above posts, it is past my bedtime and i am too tired be voicing my opinion.


--------------------
Look, let me explain something. I'm not Mr. Lebowski; you're Mr. Lebowski.
I'm the Dude. So that's what you  call me.  That, or Duder.  His  Dudeness.
Or El Duderino, if, you know, you're not into the whole brevity thing.

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Re: Chris Reeve: "I am going to walk again!" [Re: el_duderino]
    #3350399 -

Eye boogers are nothing to worry about! It's your ego worrying about em, your pesky little ego. Lighten up a little and surrender to existance, and it's all gravy baby.


--------------------
Me, Myself, and GOD

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Re: Chris Reeve: "I am going to walk again!" [Re: Swami]
    #3350418 -

This thread is a mental and emotional mess. :lol:

I used to do positive affirmations, back when I first started getting interested in spirituality, altering my mind for the better, etc., which started when I cheated a mail-order book club out of a cool feng shui book. :smirk:

I no longer do positive affirmations because it is only adds to the mind, an illusory sense of self - in fact, it hardens the sense of self into a certainty. Anyone with some spiritual insight will see why this is not exactly a good thing. :wink:

I find it is better to first accept what is, for what it is, and then to let change flow out of this moment, without seperating myself from the moment and the motion by thinking unnecessary thoughts, regardless of whether or not these thoughts are labeled "positive" or "negative" (of course, who labels thoughts in this way?).

I will admit that positive affirmation was the first step to getting over my negative affirmations, but this is merely because it is the only option I knew to do so. If it would have went unchecked, I would have become the opposite of what I wanted to be. The mind does not need to be fed.

Ones thoughts do not directly alter objective reality, or produce any change by themselves, other than within the mind itself. Positive or negative affirmations will actually hamper one's efforts to produce real change, and they will also seperate oneself from the perception of reality. I do not require the repetition of phrases such as "I can play this guitar part" in order to actually play it, etc. etc. etc. These operations of the mind are actually draining my awareness, which is powering them, which means I am not as focused on my learning and practice of the part I intend to play.

Positive affirmations are empowering, and this isn't a good thing. :lol:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Re: Chris Reeves: "I am going to walk again!" [Re: Swami]
    #3350449 -

he did fulfill his affirmation. but not the way he might of wanted to recognise it. he did "walk" with support.

he may have of stated he'll walk again. but please swami show me where he affirmed that he would walk the rest of his life and unsupported????


--------------------
suicide a permanent solution to a temporary problem

Edited by spudamore (11/12/04 07:05 AM)

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Re: Chris Reeve: "I am going to walk again!" [Re: fireworks_god]
    #3350865 -

fireworks_god said:
This thread is a mental and emotional mess. :lol:


Like your reply?

Swami has to be one of the most self certain people here, he's the only one who puts his money where his moth is and he says he doesn't use positive affirmations because they don't work.

You said, the use of positive affirmations leads to self certainty which isn't good because its a false place to be, detached from the reality of what is. Swami lives in the reality of what is down to the fact thereby making him so self certain. He does this without the use of positive affirmations that don't work.

So if we get a handle on what is the provable fact of the matter- we become self certain=good

If we beleive in what can be, the potential in the matter, we become self certain of what can be=bad and delusional

What if what can be becomes with action applied? Were you then wrong to be certain enough to spend your time taking productive action on a delusion?

I don't see the difference really. Is self certainty good or not good or does it depend on the source? Are you saying self certainty is bad and only comes from deluding yourself with what is not? People can be very self certain and use no positive affirmation or beleif in life what so ever. This is highly confusing.

Then you said we do not need to feed our minds with positive thoughts, but rather accept what is and let our minds produce their own thoughts. You said otherwise, we detach ourselves from reality. In my reality I am bombarded with mental stimulation beyond what I can process. If I shut myself off from that, how could I become any more detached from my reality?

I just had a hardy laugh over your starting your reply off by calling this thread a mental and emotional mess, and then you proceeded as if you were going to clear it up with the above. I am laughingly confused with the mixxed messages and you'd have to be a wizard to clear that reply up. Maybe you can. Maybe it was your way of giving gomps message "never be certain about anything and just remain confused and you'll be the closest to what actually is and what can be will naturally flow from it"?????

This thread has to go down as a classic of S&P.:lol: Maybe it just needs to be put down and out of its misery.


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.

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Re: Chris Reeve: "I am going to walk again!" [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3350944 -

"as soon as a philosophy begins to believe in itself. It always creates a world in its own image"
-yes, again!? :P he he


--------------------


--------------------
Disclaimer!?

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Re: Chris Reeve: "I am going to walk again!" [Re: Swami]
    #3351015 -

The man never said "I'm going to walk again in this life"  :smirk:


--------------------

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Re: Chris Reeve: "I am going to walk again!" [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3351147 -

You've apparently read my reply.... all fucked up. :lol:

I re-read it a couple of times now, just to see if I was not functioning properly when I wrote it... it passes my test. Judging by the assumptions you made in your reply, and the points that were incorrectly linked together, I think the problem in not understanding my reply rests in your lap... :wink:

First, you compare someone who extensively defines and hardens their sense of self to your perception of Swami, which is based on very limited experience of Swami (merely his written word as presented in this forum, which could have very little insight into who he actually is). You define Swami as self-certain and show that he is in the same place as the person with a concrete, defined sense of self, point out the difference in how these two people got to where they are mentally, and then contend that since your concept of a character known as Swami lives as a reflection of reality, my point that positive affirmation actually seperates one from reality is baseless.

Well, I apologize, but I do not think your contention here shows merit. :smirk:

I do not see how "getting a handle on what is the provable fact of the matter" leads to self certainty, or even how this is "good". Truth and reality can be perceived, understood, known without being certain of a sense of self. A concrete, certain, hardened sense of self forms a uniform lens through which our perceptions are filtered. Not only this, but considering the nature of a certain, well-defined sense of self, this is severely limiting in ones ability to perceive.

Any assumption, any belief, any lens through which incoming information is filtered, any held identity of the perceiver himself obscures the pure perception of reality. When one defines and imposes on their perception of reality, they seperate themselves from a pure understanding of reality more.

Obviously, two extremes are shaped here. One who knows for certain experiences a severely limited, inaccurate view of reality, while one who knows nothing experiences a pure, direct, entire (limited only by ones physical input receivers) view of reality. Obviously, everyone is at a different percentage between these two extremes. Every mind is constructed and networked differently, and handles new information differently. Certain structures of mind are more adept at being able to reflect an accurate as possible reflection of reality while still being able to understand and know reality for what it is.  :tongue:

Let us consider how some of these structures that are more adept in reality modeling might be arranged. I think the most important aspect of such a mind would be the simple fact that the mind itself is not identified with as oneself. To place ones identity within the workings of the mind itself is insane because it thereby expands the sense of the self to include every thought, every experience, every situation one is in. The sheer amount of energy that is wasted in continously revising, changing, expanding, reinforcing, and identifying the sense of self when it depends on the mind and its happenings for that identity is amazing.

Continously running this program drains far too much awareness than is necessary to sustain a proper sense of identity. Not only this, but as one's own identity is superimposed on thoughts, held ideas, material possessions, external circumstances, even more energy is wasted in trying to upkeep this sense of self, as people do not wish to lose their sense of self - people strive to be whole. This brings with it needless suffering. The entire idea of who one is directly depends on where they are, who they are with, what they are doing, where they have been, where they are going, what they are thinking, what they are feeling. Who a person is becomes an extensive, complex, never-ending, restless, never satisfied game with everything at stake.

To one who does not identify their mind or their life events as their true self, their sense of identity comes from what they can always, consistently know is there, what remains constant - the fact that they have a complete, whole sense of being that feels cosmic and perfect, and that they are a silent observer, that they are experiencing pure awareness. This state of being comes from beyond the mind, encompasses every facet that is contributing to ones experience of the eternally present moment, and is aware of everything that pertains to it, including the mind.

Therefore, the sense of self is simple and constant, complete and whole, ever present and aware, and it does not depend on anything except for pure awareness itself to be. This enables one to more effectively realize reality for what it is, including one's own potential, as their consciousness is not being fragmented by a sense of self that is contionously, rapidly growing in complexity.

New experiences are being felt and known for what they really are, as they are being filtered firstly and predominantly through being. The mind remains as an effective tool to structure, rearrange, and network ones knowing of reality. As one's focus is being kept where it should be, the mind is not overwhelmingly superactive and draining of energy. In both cases, one's being is still present, but the difference lies in whether or not one is aware of one's being.

How is defining one's sense of self with the mind with positive affirmations accurately reflecting reality? One does not need to be consistently told that they can walk, and one does not have to believe in their mind that they can walk before they can actually walk. Walking is an action which only requires the physical capabilities of performing the action (:tongue:), and the knowledge of how to carry out the action sucessfully, including a spark that initiates the process. Do you think a baby needs to positively affirm that he can walk before he learns to walk? "Goo goo ga gaa I can walk gooo dee goo, I know I can, gaa ga I am walking!" :lol:

This is about placing identity only where it can truly exist, which is being, which goes beyond the mind, and does not require the mind. This is also about limiting the mind to the necessities required for functioning properly. Any excess baggage only limits ones perception and realization of reality. Any identity residing in the mind itself only seperates and blurs. Finally, one does not need to identify with the mind or be self-certain in order to know and realize one's potential, or to realize that potential.

Your mind needs to chill the fuck out. :lol:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Re: Chris Reeve: "I am going to walk again!" [Re: fireworks_god]
    #3351169 -

That reply I understood! I was hoping for an expanciation cuz i like reading and understanding your thoughts. I know I must've have been reading you clearly with what was provided. Thanks for adding.

I'm super chill. I had just woken up when I read your reply and typed mine. Perhaps waking cognition hadn't kicked in yet. I'm a night owl.

You Rock FW! :headbang:


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.

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Re: Chris Reeve: "I am going to walk again!" [Re: Ped]
    #3351215 -

"


--------------------
Anxiety is what you make it.

Edited by LunarEclipse (11/21/04 04:16 PM)

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Re: Chris Reeve: "I am going to walk again!" [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3351231 -

Hehe, tusen takk. :wink: You rock as well! :thumbup:

I know we've clashed before on issues revolving around the self, the ego, the mind, etc... where do you stand on this stuff now? Do you see a distinction between being and the mind? Do you notice a distinction between the identified self and the workings of the mind which interpret our inputs?

Any questions for me? :laugh:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Re: Chris Reeve: "I am going to walk again!" [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #3351236 -

Did you see Mel Gibson on the today show spewwing his mouth off against stem cell research?

Did you South Parks eppisode of The Passion? Ya gotta rent it if you havn't. It'll have you rollin on the floor.


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.

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