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Re: Chris Reeves: "I am going to walk again!" [Re: Viaggio]
    #3344828 -

Viagra: I only allow my lady friends to call me "Salami".


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The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: Chris Reeve: "I am going to walk again!" [Re: Swami]
    #3344837 -

Swami said:
Would it have been better for Reeves to continually iterate: "I will never walk again! I'm fucked!"??

As the positive affirmations did not help him attain to that particular goal, the results could only have been the same or better if he had tried something else.


Well, then, what else should he have tried?


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The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard

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Re: Chris Reeve: "I am going to walk again!" [Re: Frog]
    #3344884 -

Maybe if you stood just out of reach in your sexy nightie, (you know - the red one I like!) and said "Come here, my super man..."


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The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: Chris Reeve: "I am going to walk again!" [Re: Swami]
    #3346585 -

Since placebos made statistical significant effects, what more proof do you need ?


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Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'

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Re: Chris Reeve: "I am going to walk again!" [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #3346601 -

Please reference the placebo and spinal cord injury studies.


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The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: Chris Reeve: "I am going to walk again!" [Re: Swami]
    #3347224 -

I believe that if you really want to achieve something, then in the process of achieving it, you set aside factors that would otherwise negatively affect the outcome. I am not aware of any studies relating mind to body in a way more than what I just mentioned. On the other hand one can simply say that some very serious illnesses are very difficult if not impossible to overcome, despite of one's motives. Both statements are true for all the individuals but can vary extremely and what we get at the end of the day is the result of a very complicated, as it seems to me, process.


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Re: Chris Reeve: "I am going to walk again!" [Re: Swami]
    #3349288 -

The mind and body may share some kind of connection, in that a person's overall state of mind might be related to their physical condition as well. Why is that so difficult an idea to entertain? The mind and the body are interdependent; there cannot be mind without body and no animation of body without mind. Doesn't this at least open the door to the possibility that they each share some degree of influence over eachother?

If you are the sort of person who has already decided that the mind and all it's metaphysical implications do not exceed the limits of densely packed epithelial tissue in the brain and a few neurotransmitters, then I suppose it would be impossible to accept the notion that a person's state of mind might directly affect their body. Personally, I reject this idea. Many other people reject this idea. As a result, we look at the matter of mind's relationship with the body much differently.

Until there is concrete evidence to finalize the nature of conciousness, I think either point of view is acceptable. Don't you, Swami?


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:poison: Dark Triangles - New Psychedelic Techno Single - Listen on Soundcloud :poison:
Gyroscope full album available SoundCloud or MySpace

Edited by Ped (11/12/04 01:02 AM)

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Re: Chris Reeve: "I am going to walk again!" [Re: Ped]
    #3349305 -

Christopher Reeve believed he could walk again someday, that is the most empowpering tool a person can have--BELIEF!


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Correlation is not causation!

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Re: Chris Reeve: "I am going to walk again!" [Re: Signo]
    #3349413 -

As it didn't work (in this particular case) I fail to see how it was empowering.


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The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: Chris Reeve: "I am going to walk again!" [Re: Swami]
    #3349501 -

Swami, your trap couldn't have been more succesful if you had baited it with some Anthony Robbin's tapes, a couple of Feng Shui books, and a half ounce of marijuana!  :stash:

I've just been sitting here in disbelief watching person after person fall into your Tarpit trap waiting for someone to learn from the previous poster, but no! And the amazing thing is it's not even a very good trap!! As a matter of fact, it's a lousy trap! One of your worst, but you have somehow prevailed!

Frankly I'm baffled.
Postgame interview time..

*Jellric shoves microphone in Swami's face*:

"Now that you've somehow won this game, Swami, how the hell do you explain it?"


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I am what Willis was talkin' bout.

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Re: Chris Reeve: "I am going to walk again!" [Re: Jellric]
    #3349536 -

Of course it was poorly baited, but because people have so much invested emotionally, they stumble blindly into the trap just like in real life. Props to the Jell man.  :thumbup:

Note to others: Reeve never said publicly, "I am going to change how America views the paralyzed and raise enormous funds for nerve damage research." He just did it. His statement about defying the odds and walking again was based in ego as if he were superior to all the other "loser" quadriplegics who did not have the fortitude to get out of their chairs.  :thumbdown:


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The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: Chris Reeve: "I am going to walk again!" [Re: Jellric]
    #3349827 -

Jellric said:
Swami, your trap couldn't have been more succesful if you had baited it with some Anthony Robbin's tapes, a couple of Feng Shui books, and a half ounce of marijuana!  :stash:

I've just been sitting here in disbelief watching person after person fall into your Tarpit trap waiting for someone to learn from the previous poster, but no! And the amazing thing is it's not even a very good trap!! As a matter of fact, it's a lousy trap! One of your worst, but you have somehow prevailed!

Frankly I'm baffled.
Postgame interview time..

*Jellric shoves microphone in Swami's face*:

"Now that you've somehow won this game, Swami, how the hell do you explain it?"


But Swami didn't win this "game".  Don't you see?  Yes, Reeves died before he was able to walk.  But he remained motivated to the end.  He was positive to the end.  To the end, he maintained dignity, and hope, and a positive life, and he set an example for others.

Reeves didn't lose, and Swami (with all due respect) didn't win.


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The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard

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Re: Chris Reeve: "I am going to walk again!" [Re: Frog]
    #3349865 -

Reeve's optimism wasn't so much about walking again as it was about refusing to allow his life to end at the moment of his injury. Reeve's lived on and had a very successful, happy life. He helped many people lead successful, happy lives, and his contributions to research in the field will one day result others suffering the same injury being able to get up and walk again. That's not a failing. Saying that Reeve's optimism was meaningless simply because it didn't help him overcome the impossible is, as Jellric said, lousy.

Swami, coming onto these boards and taking shots at Christopher Reeve so that you can sit back in your chair and laugh at all the people who have "so much invested emotionally that they just stumble blindly into the trap" is annoyingly disgusting. Why does it entertain you so much that some people react strongly to things like this? Does it make you feel mighty in your delusions of all-perfect rationality? Why do you go so far out of your way to draw comparisons between you and other people for no productive purpose?

I think you need to grow up a little bit, and do some pretty serious investigation into what it is that motivates you to post here.


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:poison: Dark Triangles - New Psychedelic Techno Single - Listen on Soundcloud :poison:
Gyroscope full album available SoundCloud or MySpace

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Re: Chris Reeve: "I am going to walk again!" [Re: Frog]
    #3349879 -

Well unless Mr. Reeve comes back and walks around around as a member of the undead, he didn't walk and Swami did win. What Swami left out and no one picked up on was that he didn't specify whether Reeve claimed he would walk due to his own positive affirmations or his hope and efforts towards scientific advances. Everyone went with the former and Swami swatted them all down like flies.


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I am what Willis was talkin' bout.

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Re: Chris Reeve: "I am going to walk again!" [Re: Jellric]
    #3349920 -

That is such garbage. Swami wins because Christopher Reeve never walked again? "The facts are on his side"? Garbage.

>> What Swami left out and no one picked up on was that he didn't specify whether Reeve claimed he would walk due to his own positive affirmations or his hope and efforts towards scientific advances.

Let's look at the quote directly:

>> Did his affirmations and positive thinking [enable him] to take even a single step after his accident?

You're right. Swami left out defining principles of his question, and people gathered what they could from the words and their experiences with the stubbornly cynical Swami. This is reason enough to see people as a bunch of laughable idiots squabbling for your entertainment? Perhaps even worse, Swami worded his post this way to deliberately lure people into a misundertanding that would afford him the opportunity to laugh at and belittle them?

What is there to celebrate about that? Why would this kind of stupidly childish behaviour be worthy of anyone's praise? If anything, it makes him worthy of a ban. Surely baiting and disrespect are mentioned somewhere in the forum guidelines.


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:poison: Dark Triangles - New Psychedelic Techno Single - Listen on Soundcloud :poison:
Gyroscope full album available SoundCloud or MySpace

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Re: Chris Reeve: "I am going to walk again!" [Re: Jellric]
    #3349935 -

I understand that Reeves claimed that he would walk again, and didn't. What I am saying is that he still had a positive life. I'm saying that we have to have goals, whether we ever reach them or not, in order to have fulfilled lives.

Reeves accomplished a lot based on his belief that he would walk again some day, even if he never ended up walking. Therefore, even though he didn't end up walking, because he "believed" he would walk, he accomplished things he would never have accomplished if he hadn't had that belief.

So yes, factually, Swami won. But spiritually, Reeves won. Reeves motivated and helped others, besides having a fulfilling life after the accident.


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The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard

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Re: Chris Reeve: "I am going to walk again!" [Re: Frog]
    #3349953 -

Going to explain my position this way, as I explained it to someone else:

What is wrong with optimism???

I remember a friend I had during my undergrad days. She was bitching to me that her 8-year old daughter was pointing out houses along the road they were driving, one day, saying, "One day we will have a house like that one. Or maybe that one."

My friend finally snapped at her daughter, "Be grateful for what you have! (An apartment.) You may never have a real house to live in!"

I said to her, "What's wrong with having a dream to work toward? To live for? Even if her dream never comes true, what's wrong with having a dream? What if by having that dream, she takes actions that take her down a path of having that dream come true?"

I have a dream. (No, I am not Martin Luther King.) I started living in my law office within 2 months after my divorce started. (Long story with which I will not bore you.)

I have lived in my law office for a little over 2 years now. Up until approximately 1 year ago, I was earning (maybe) $100 a week. I had no advertising. I was subsisting off appearance fees from one attorney.

I kept at it, with my dream in the back of my head.

Today, I am now making considerably more than the $100/week I was earning a year ago. I work with 5 different law offices. I have my own clients again. I will probably be dropping the attorneys shortly, if things continue to go well with my advertising.

If I had not had a dream, if I had listened to all the people who smirked at me, who told me that I was fucked, to just go get a job in a firm, I wouldn't be where I'm at right now.

What is wrong with dreams??? Even if I had not ended up getting to where I am right now, what is wrong with dreaming about it?

See, Reeves simply contracted an illness unassociated with his paralysis. Who knows if he wouldn't have walked again if he hadn't died from something unrelated?

What if I had given up because I might not be successful? Should I give up right at the start, simply because I might not be successful? Should all of us discard dreams merely because those dreams might not come true? What about the interim, such as in Reeves case, where he helped others in spite of the fact that he never walked again? Is he really a loser?


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The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard

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Re: Chris Reeve: "I am going to walk again!" [Re: Ped]
    #3349981 -

I don't see why you're so surprised that Swami would *gasp* lay a trap for someone! And forgive me, but I think you're overeacting a wee bit when you throw in the "b" word.:ban: We all know and love Swami and this place wouldn't be the same without him and you know it.

Everyone who has worked themselves into a lather over this should regain perspective, stop taking things so seriously, and chill.  :flowerchild:

Booyashka. West side.


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I am what Willis was talkin' bout.

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Re: Chris Reeve: "I am going to walk again!" [Re: Ped]
    #3350066 -

Reeve's optimism wasn't so much about walking again...
Amazing that Ped knows more bout Reeve than what Chris clearly stated.

Saying that Reeve's optimism was meaningless simply because it didn't help him overcome the impossible is...
Never said meaningless, my Zen-centered brother. I said his affirmations did not work. Let us all take a moment to set up impossible goals so that we can detract our energies from possible goals. That is more worthy, eh?

Swami, coming onto these boards and taking shots at Christopher Reeve...
Taking shots?

so that you can sit back in your chair and laugh at all the people who have "so much invested emotionally that they just stumble blindly into the trap" is annoyingly disgusting.
Laughter? Jellric was playful and I was playful in return. Should I display unbridled anger whenever I do not understand what another is trying to communicate? Will this bridge or exacerbate the gap?

I think you need to grow up a little bit, and do some pretty serious investigation into what it is that motivates you to post here.
Thank you for your keen insight. It has been about three days since I have been analyzed and I was feeling slighted. Before the constant barrage of "helpful" insights from members, I was a total basket case. But now thanks to the concern of people like yourself, I have had to double my meds...

I honestly did not know that letting one's emotions run rampant is superior to being balanced and calm. *Swami cracks open "Zen Mind, Beginner's Mind"*

If I get all self-righteous and red-faced with hypertension first, will I then be better able to dispense verboten personal advice?


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The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: Chris Reeve: "I am going to walk again!" [Re: Swami]
    #3350168 -

I believe like many people who take life for granted, that Christopher Reeves suffered a tragedy which influenced him to really attempt to do what is important in life; to become an inspiration. We admire those who arent mentally or emotionally hindered by apparent weaknesses and put forth effort into helping humanity, and many times it takes a traumatic event for a person to empower themselves completely.


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As the life of a candle,
my wick will burn out.
But, the fire of my mind
shall beam into infinite.

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General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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