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OfflinePhanTomCat
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FAI?H in JeSuS ChriS?.... Just the Beggining of Seeing the Beauty of This World....
    #3930838 - 03/17/05 02:21 PM (19 years, 6 days ago)

FAI?H in JeSuS ChriS?....
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Quote:

Psychoactive1984 said:
A-B-C: We can't all go to heaven for our own interpretation unless our logic is flawed... and. Nope, We're going to heaven and you guys aren't.
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So essentially, I have a fault with the bible due to the fact that it is so segragated... it is written by man... and interpreted by man.. which gives it flaw even in respects to the bible.
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Example:
God made man... God willingly admits in the book that man is flawed by way of the Devil and the original sin and blah (extraneos)...
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Man is flawed... Man wrote the bible through god.... Man is flawed even through god... Therefore man could've possibly, (just a possibility, unless someone wants to explain this away with divinity) wrote done the wrong thing by being of course.... a man who is flawed by way of his own's god allowance of letting him have supposed free will.... beyond being damned eternally by not believing in him. Not too mention the Gospels among other things with variation's on an account... although that seemingly has a different explanation.... but :shrug: either way, the contradictions exist.



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The Bible as a HUGE standing History Lesson....
Man DID write the Bible, it was stories of the past as they happened WAY back then/when....  All assembled from the people of the times, JUST as the history books of events that have been written of the latest times are being taught in schools across the USA, and perhaps even beyond it's borders....(?) 
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I remember History class teaching a little bit about the rest of the world, but most was localized to the USA -because that is where I grew up and went to school....    We learn from our History classes as a fact of things that have happened and prooven because you "believe" the people (man) that have written such words down on paper, assembled to make a book of "history" for recent events....
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But, because the Bible WAS written by MAN of flesh and blood, does this mean that we are all supposed to discredit the fact that it happened....?  HHhhhmmmm....  Does this mean that there should be NO history classes taught to the children going to school....?    I am *thinking* that you *might* understand my point, but I am not sure....(?) 
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The one thing I do know is that none of my History classes made me happy....  But now as I learn more about the Bible by studying it WITH other people like family and friends, I have found the JOY in my life that I needed to make ME happy....  Talking about GOD, and the writings of MAN as seen as a piece of History of our own past events of the world we live in, that gives me an internal peace and joy that I never got from History class at all....  And THAT is just another thing that helps support my believing....  The smile on my face shines a brightness that others are effected by, and they smile....  And if someone asks me why I smile, I tell them....  It is because I have accepted Jesus Christ into my heart....  Something that everyone can do if or when they decide too.... 
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So what about all of the "holes" that people talk about that are within the Bible....?  From translation....?    Perhaps what people say kinda~ makes sense....  Because if you were to go to Japan or China, or someplace else that is not here(in the USA) and studied about American History, I am pretty sure you are right in the fact that it would also be filled with translation holes, and perhaps incomplete because I would just logically think that whatever country was giving/writing the history lesson would be more focused on teaching the history of that localized area....  Right....?  In a relative way of teaching History as a subject in school, it makes sense to me....
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"Holes" or not, I read the Bible and see it a piece of history as was written by the many different events of people's at that time, and assembled together for all to understand what happened back in that time in the world....  It is not much different than now, it is just that now is easier to "believe" in something that is recent and still on our minds as a fresh collection of written events.... 
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Getting to a point in life where something is just "Missing"....
I, myself had gotten to that point....  I had gone thru quite a few hardships with myself, and with my physical health....  That was quite some time ago, and I had "adopted" a new way of thinking knowing full well that I was in control of my own thoughts, as I always was....  So everything was just fine and dandy being "happy" and living my life knowing that only I could perceive things as "being bad", and life just seemed to "drone" on....  Then, I started noticing an emptyness that was just "there"....  And maybe you too will notice this someday if you have not accepted Jesus into your heart....  When you get to a point in your life that you "believe" that the Bible is real as a written piece of true history, and IF you come to an understanding that Jesus Christ's purpose in this world was to selflessly take our sins away(that is what he did die for, and suffered greatly he did - for you and me), you will rest more easily and get on with your life with a smile that shines upon the people in your everyday activities - much like the sun does....  You will WANT to live in a way consistant with your newfounded beliefs - being that you would follow thru with doing "good" or "right" things in your life....  Once you accept Jesus Christ into your heart(if you so choose), you will no longer want your new found "friend" to experience any more sins than he already has suffered.... 
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Perhaps when we all start LIVING in a way that is free from SIN, and the truth in believing Jesus is running and embraced in every one of us, maybe that will be the time that there is a "Second Coming" of Christ....  Maybe time itself will tell, but it is written about in the Bible - as I remember....  I have not actually gotten to this point of my Bible studies to say that a "Second Coming" is written as a fact....    There is a lot of things I need to read and understand by myself, or with others....
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A notice to those that DO believe....
Once you have accepted this CHOICE to believe in Jesus Christ, and if you do CHOOSE to continue on a life living in sin, you will further hurt the very essence of what you believe in, and seperate yourself from it....  And that essence of belief will leave you, as your faith will start to faulter and you will again live in doubt....  Just as the people who CHOOSE NOT TO BELIEVE now....  Living in doubt is a burdon, and it does effect you and how you feel....  The "negative" feelings spread just like positive feelings spread....  That negative feeling is that of "evil"(the dark side of the Yin Yang), it is a choice inside us all, as it always was(except for before Original Sin)....  I had once thought that the "yin-yang" was "incorrect" because it had no color that life actually has....  But the little swimming fish of black and white are more symbolic of the positive and negative choices we all have and make.... 
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Another thing to note, "Force vs. Flow"....
Nobody can MAKE anybody else believe in anything....  You can offer your understanding of your beliefs as I have done here, but in no way can anybody make anybody else believe in anything....  Especially something that requires a Leap of Faith....  And that IS exactly what "BELIEF" is....  A Leap of FAITH is believing in something that you had not already logically believed in because you didn't "know"....  And someone is very quick to try and sway your vote of belief to find common ground in their own doubts....    It is the way that the darkside works....  Always trying to instil doubt in someone elses mind / beliefs....  Belief comes from the heart, and once you do believe, it would be your own fault for letting someone else effect you with their own doubts.... 
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Only GOOD things can happen from people that have pure positive intents towards themselves and others....  And that glowing smile that you carry through the events in your life WILL spread....  Having understanding for the people that have wronged you, and letting it go are the keys to making this world a better place....  If we all were truly happy, then the pain and suffering of the world would pail in comparison to the suffering that it currently does have (for some)....  Seeing the good in the bad, and finding solutions to problems is the way that GOD intended this place to be for all of us....  ONE for ALL, and ALL for ONE....  It was the original plan as intended and designed for life as we know it....  How could it not be....?  :shrug:
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Plant a Seed, or Build a Bridge....
I am not ever "trying" to make ANYONE belive in anything with my words by sharing my individual beliefs....  It is all, and has always been an individual choice....  But, the more that we all talk about it, the more seeds are sewn into the minds of the people that have doubt in Jesus Christ....  Maybe someday, with a little watering, that seed will grow and blossom into beautiful flower to further put beauty into this wonderful world we live in....  :smile:  What a wonderful world it is....!
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For those that consider all of this "preaching", or somehow take offense to my beliefs, PLEASE just go on to the next thread....  It was your CHOICE to come here and read this....  Just as it is your choice not to believe in my beliefs....  As I don't really consider this "preaching" as much as I consider it sharing what I believe in as a gift of HOPE that a seed that might grow, and start to shine upon the world with a "SHINE" from every one of our happy smiles and good deeds towards others....  :sun:    And it doesn't even have to be big things as "given" deeds....  Just remember, Some of the best things in life are free, and they are not always things that you can "see"....  Perhaps it is time to scrape that "crud" off of our hearts, and start to see how beautiful this world and all of us really are, from the inside out....
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I am not really saying any of this for me, I am saying this for whoever might want to know what I think is "right" thru my beliefs....  Do you have to follow or believe in what I do....?  Nope....  Would I think less of you if you didn't believe with me....?  Nope....  We are all supposed to be equal, this is how I made myself equal to everyone else....  By having Faith in Jesus Christ as our saviour, and truly accepting him into my heart....  For THAT was the day that changed my life....  :smile:



ME....


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I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."

>^;;^<

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Invisibleniteowl
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Re: FAI?H in JeSuS ChriS?.... Just the Beggining of Seeing the Beauty of This World.... [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #3931110 - 03/17/05 03:29 PM (19 years, 6 days ago)

What really bothers me about people going on and on about Christianity is their smug superiority, "I'm going to heaven and your not!"


I believe in the teachings of Jesus, but don't believe that he actually died on the cross.

That part is the man made part.

Even Jesus said "Do not worship me."

The Christian religion is all about control and nothing else.

You don't have to believe that Jesus "died on the cross" to get into "heaven".

All you have to do is lead a "christian" lifestyle. (most all religions have the same basic teachings)

Jesus was an example of how God wants us to live our life and nothing else. Just an example.

Jesus is no more "the son of God" than any other person walking the planet today.


--------------------
Live for the moment you are in now
Don't be bogged down by your past
Don't be afraid of what lies in your future

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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: FAI?H in JeSuS ChriS?.... Just the Beggining of Seeing the Beauty of This World.... [Re: niteowl]
    #3931202 - 03/17/05 03:55 PM (19 years, 6 days ago)

"The Bible as a HUGE standing History Lesson...."

The whole point of religion is to take it on faith. Why must you try to convince other people the truth of the Bible and that Christianity is the one true way? Faith needs no justification. Why do I feel that before long you will have found another "true path", like Buddhism, Jehovah's Witness', Hinduism, or Islam, that you will be just as motivated (and preach in a heavy handed way) about...and then another and another...


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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InvisiblePsychoactive1984
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Re: FAI?H in JeSuS ChriS?.... Just the Beggining of Seeing the Beauty of This World.... [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3931664 - 03/17/05 05:32 PM (19 years, 6 days ago)

:lol: give it a rest PhanTomCat... attempting to find virtue through whatever means..... good that you believe in it... I don't and some people just won't regardless of your dogma...

Suppose I'll be in hell... and you'll be in a segragated heaven by virute of all the collective denominations all going to heaven.

Pick up a history book... at least that is blatantly written by man and the facts can substantiate themselves... without having to rely on faith and conjecture.


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"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.

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InvisiblePsychoactive1984
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Re: FAI?H in JeSuS ChriS?.... Just the Beggining of Seeing the Beauty of This World.... [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #3931686 - 03/17/05 05:39 PM (19 years, 6 days ago)

BTW have you seen "Saved" the movie PhanTomCat?

Stupid ass movie, I saw it with my sister... anyhow has to do with people believing in God and following his way despite the foolish reprecussions of their actions.

I suggest you rent it, if not to see what I've seen, but to at least to show you what dogma with no proof is capable of doing.


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"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.

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OfflinePhanTomCat
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Perhaps WE ALL go to HEAVEN - IF we are "GOOD" People.... **MY** FAI?H in JeSuS ChriS?.... [Re: niteowl]
    #3932009 - 03/17/05 06:54 PM (19 years, 6 days ago)

Perhaps WE ALL go to HEAVEN - IF we are "GOOD" People....  **MY** FAI?H in JeSuS ChriS?....
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Quote:

niteowl said:
What really bothers me about people going on and on about Christianity is their smug superiority, "I'm going to heaven and your not!"
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I believe in the teachings of Jesus, but don't believe that he actually died on the cross.
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That part is the man made part.
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Even Jesus said "Do not worship me."
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The Christian religion is all about control and nothing else.
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You don't have to believe that Jesus "died on the cross" to get into "heaven".
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All you have to do is lead a "christian" lifestyle. (most all religions have the same basic teachings)
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Jesus was an example of how God wants us to live our life and nothing else. Just an example.
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Jesus is no more "the son of God" than any other person walking the planet today.



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The "only" ONE  I worship is GOD, and it is said in the Bible as I know it that the Holy Ghost was the bridge that was built from GOD to MAN in the flesh and blood of Jesus Christ....  If I were to not believe in all three aspects of the Trinity, I would not believe in GOD, to which I DO believe in my heart that there is a GOD, a Jesus Christ, and a Holy Ghost - ALL AS ONE....  But, I would not say that you having a different belief in what I believe would put me to Heaven and you to Hell, that does seem a little absurd if we are both living with positive intentions towards each other....  :shrug:
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Perhaps Jesus Christ said "Don't worship me" because he did not believe he was a MAN of flesh and blood holding the Holy Ghost of GOD....  If you yourself were to put into Jesus's sandles, it makes complete sense that you (believing in GOD) would be serving GOD in your actions, and would not want to be worshiped as though you were GOD....  I do understand this....  Or, at least I understand why....
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And I am not trying to be smug about anything, as I am still learning much, and have MUCH more to learn about my beliefs, as it seems like a neverending learning process - BUT, I have a very open mind for discussion....  So, lets discuss....!    Perhaps we all DO go to heaven no matter what we believe - just as long as our actions are done out of positive intentions towards each other....    The Bible does say, as I remember,  "One that doesn't believe does not go to Heaven"....  BUT, what if ANYTHING was POSSIBLE, and we will all go to Heaven for being "good" no matter what we believe....?    What if that little part of the Bible was added to try to "force a hand" in believing - thus seperating and dividing....?    If that was put in by someone with EVIL intents, it would very much serve to seperate AND divide us all, as it seems to be doing with our personal beliefs right now....  That to me does not sound at ALL what GOD is all about....  As we are taught, we are NEVER supposed to find fault in another person, BUT, we ARE encouraged to find fault in another's WRONGFUL actions - as these actions are CHOSEN of either good intentions, or bad intentions....  We are supposed to point out those wrong decisions in actions, and find forgiveness in the person for having chosen those actions for hopes that they will choose the "right" actions in the future....    This is what helps people grow together in understanding each other, as one in unity, for the betterment of humankind....  :smile:  :heart:
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Tell me NiteOwl, if this ONE little thing about going to Heaven "only if you believe" is perhaps in the Bible as the only thing that seperates our beliefs, perhaps that is why it might have been put in there - out of the evil intentions of dividing us all....(?)    Perhaps this one little factor is what so greatly seperates our possible unity in and of a believer and a non-believer....    As I have in my very signature, and as something I feel to be "important" to this very discussion, 
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Time is so precious, for even in the hourglass, EVERY "tiny" grain of sand COUNTS....
For Time is Timeless, and EACH and EVERY grain of sand is COUNTLESS....
 
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When I had put that in there yesterday, I had no idea that it might have such a meaningfulness in YOU(NiteOwl) bringing up your question about going to Heaven yet again for me....  I honestly don't put ANY thought in going to Heaven at all, NOR have I tried to make my own assumptions as to what it may be like....  Maybe that is why I didn't put any of my own thought into this, as you have asked me before - and I gave the "Bible" answer as I know it to be....  I honestly have no idea what Heaven is like because as I know it, I have never died before....!  :lol:  So for me to think about Heaven would give me some kind of expectation for something that I really have no clue or understanding about....  I am too busy soaking up the wonderful rays of the sun, the beauty of everything here in this little world, and shining my smile out onto the world for all to enjoy as much as I enjoy the world and the people "in and of it"....  :laugh: :sun:
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Perhaps this is going to make people doubt my FAITH in the Bible(the Word of GOD -as written by man), and that is fine....  I do not think that GOD would EVER want to loose ANY of his children....  And again, it is very much noted that, and has been prooven that there are perhaps some things that were lost in translation, or even altered by that of someone with evil intentions of seperating us as equal people.... 
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NiteOwl, I graciously thank you VERY much for bringing this up to me again, it is a point that you have been bringing to me a few times now....  It kinda~ makes a heck of a lot of sense when you think about it....!    I believe EVERYONE is precious, EVERYONE - no matter what they believe in as positive intentions, we are born with spirit, and that spirit does carry on....  This one factor of the Bible is what seems to seperate and divide us here on earth as equal people, and seemingly, this one small thing really does put a dividing wedge in FAITHs for a lot of people.... 
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It was always something I did not understand as I am learning about the Bible - or that I have known thru my growing up....  Something that never made sense to me is when a person on death row that had commited so many inhumane crimes of killing other people, why on earth would a Priest or Pastor go in and allow a killer of such magnitudes to be "forgiven" right before their death....?    For now, this all makes sense to me completely....  The killers doing great evil intentions thru their actions were ruled by their wrongful and evil actions - pehaps because they were more open to evil suggestions(?), but the person themself is not to be condemed to hell unless they were not at least sorry for their wrongful actions....(?)  Perhaps it takes a person that is truly EVIL to NOT go to Heaven, OR someone who is purposely serving that of satan himself....    I dunno~, it would be very interesting to hear other opinions to this line of thought....  :smile:  :heart:
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If I was told that I would not be going to Heaven because I didn't believe in a specified belief as presented by another - EVEN if I was a very good person at heart and thru my positive actions towards myself and others, I would have a hard time listening to them as well....  AND it WOULD very much SEPERATE and DIVIDE us....    So, believe me, I am not trying to be smug or superior at all - as maybe YOU just may have pointed out something very crucial for everone to know and ponder about the Bible....  I don't think ANYTHING should divide the people of the world that are living with "positive intentions" or "good intentions" towards all the rest of mankind....  I conceivably :wink: was not around when the Bible was written, nor was I there when whoever it was that translated and edited it to be what it is now....  Perhaps this is why people of different faiths have such a difficult time with those of another faith or belief, and having open discussions with them....  One of the first judgements to be made about another "not believing" in your faith, is that they are going to hell....  Perhaps if this division was welded together with a bridge, it could bring a lot of beliefs together - as it seemingly was meant to be....    :heart:  :laugh:  :sun:
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I am thinking, but not assuming that I may be zapped by a lot of people for this idea of thought, and that is fine....  There is NOTHING wrong with discussing such things....  Nothing at all....  :smile:   
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Did you notice, if we all DO go to Heaven no matter what our beliefs are, it takes out the "Control", and the "Division" or "Seperation" in our beliefs....  And this IS what equality in humans is supposed to be like - if ever there was a plan by the ALMIGHTY ONE, known as GOD....  With what little logic I actually have, this makes complete sense to me....  And I also know that I could be wrong as well, that is what I get for being human....  But a threat or reward for Heaven just does not sound "Just" nor "Sound" if we are to all live as,
"One for ALL, and ALL for ONE....
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Psychoactive1984,
Give it a rest....?  NEVER....!!  :lol:
I have not seen "Saved", but why would I want to waste my time watching "A Stupid Ass Movie" as you put it...?  :shrug:  :lol:  :heart:
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ME....
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:heartpump::sun::heartpump:
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Question:
"One that doesn't believe does not go to Heaven"....  <=== How many times and/or how many places does this "rule" show up....?


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I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."

>^;;^<

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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: FAI?H in JeSuS ChriS?.... Just the Beggining of Seeing the Beauty of This World.... [Re: niteowl]
    #3932102 - 03/17/05 07:09 PM (19 years, 6 days ago)

when I was little, our local catholic church and school cathekism (sp?) tought us that people from all religions go to heaven if they are good because it is not their fault they don't know anything about Jesus.

so not all christians think the same way


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine

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Offlineslaphappy
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Re: FAI?H in JeSuS ChriS?.... Just the Beggining of Seeing the Beauty of This World.... [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #3932181 - 03/17/05 07:25 PM (19 years, 6 days ago)

I like love.

I don't like pity.


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The argent messenger of truth beyond truth, the antithesis of life, cruel and bleak as interstellar space, pulseless and frozen as absolute zero, dazzling with the frost of irrefragable logic and unforgettable fact.

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Invisibleniteowl
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Re: FAI?H in JeSuS ChriS?.... Just the Beggining of Seeing the Beauty of This World.... [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #3932516 - 03/17/05 08:26 PM (19 years, 5 days ago)

Quote:

OldWoodSpecter said:
when I was little, our local catholic church and school cathekism (sp?) tought us that people from all religions go to heaven if they are good because it is not their fault they don't know anything about Jesus.

so not all christians think the same way







From what I have been told by MANY preachers and good Christian folk is "Good people who have never heard the Christ story will go to heaven." If you have been told the story of Christ and deny the fact that "He is the Son of God." Then your condemned to hell.


Even PhanTomCat said it in this post

Quote:

As far as I know to be true in my beliefs as I know them, with what bits and pieces I do know about what is written in the Bible, it says that people who do not believe that Jesus Christ is our Lord GOD and savior, will not be going to Heaven.... I would not be respecting what I believe to be the truth if I did not respect this as written in the Bible....





PhanTomCat you an I have a very different view of heaven and the afterlife.

Please correct me if Im wrong......In your view you believe that you only have this one life to live. If you dont live your life right, then when you die, you will either go to a "heaven" and live a life of ease for eternity, OR you will go to hell and live a life of torment.......Right???

I dont believe that you can become a "perfect" soul in 1 lifetime.

If you dont learn all the lessons then you have to come back to this "meatspace" in another life that will challenge your soul in the right ways to learn whatever lessons you need to learn.



I believe that heaven and hell both exist on this "material/meat" plane. I believe that if you live a good life and try to do no harm to others (basic christian values), and learn the lessons your soul needs to learn, that you will get the chance to come back in a better life. If your bad your next life will be harder.



If you learn all the lessons your soul has to learn then you dont have to come back in this "meat space". You get to remain in "spirit" form as an angel. Helping others as guardians. You can even choose to come back to this "meatspace" if you want.



I believe that Jesus was a historical person who had a good sermon to spread. He lived his live according to the 10 commandments. He was an example of how to live your life.

Not some "God" on earth.

Not someone to be worshiped, but to emulate.


--------------------
Live for the moment you are in now
Don't be bogged down by your past
Don't be afraid of what lies in your future

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OfflinePhanTomCat
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Re: FAI?H in JeSuS ChriS?.... Just the Beggining of Seeing the Beauty of This World.... [Re: niteowl]
    #3933018 - 03/17/05 09:46 PM (19 years, 5 days ago)

Quote:

niteowl said:
Even PhanTomCat said it in this  post
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Quote:

As far as I know to be true in my beliefs as I know them, with what bits and pieces I do know about what is written in the Bible, it says that people who do not believe that Jesus Christ is our Lord GOD and savior, will not be going to Heaven.... I would not be respecting what I believe to be the truth if I did not respect this as written in the Bible....



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PhanTomCat you an I have a very different view of heaven and the afterlife.
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Please correct me if Im wrong......In your view you believe that you only have this one life to live. If you dont live your life right, then when you die, you will either go to a "heaven" and live a life of ease for eternity, OR you will go to hell and live a life of torment.......Right???
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I dont believe that you can become a "perfect" soul in 1 lifetime.
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If you dont learn all the lessons then you have to come back to this "meatspace" in another life that will challenge your soul in the right ways to learn whatever lessons you need to learn.
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I believe that Jesus was a historical person who had a good sermon to spread. He lived his live according to the 10 commandments. He was an example of how to live your life.
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Not some "God" on earth.
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Not someone to be worshiped, but to emulate.



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At that time when I made that post you quoted, I had not challenged what I considered "right" and "wrong", AND as stated in that quote, I was quoting what I knew to be truth "as I knew it"- without challenge....  That is why I said I might get "zapped" for making my last post....  (did you read my last post?)  Am I not allowed to evolve my understanding with new things that are presented to me....?    Am I not allowed to challenge the things as assembled and edited by MAN....?    Please let me know where I have failed in my trying to understand something that seemingly seperates, controls, and divides us all as written in the Bible for truth....  For even if I am wrong, and it is pointed out to me, I will learn from my mistakes.... 
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I just wonder your intentions in pointing out the fact that I might have made a mistake in my past....?    It *could* be perceived as you trying to point out a flaw in *trying* to get a better understanding for things and think it thru on my own....    Does knowledge and understanding of a person supposed to stop evolving, ever....?  If you dig back far enough in my posts, you will come to a point where I was not where I am now....  Will that be thrown at me for evolving from that point in time too....?  :shrug:
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And also as I stated in my last post, I have no idea, nor expectations as to what Heaven nor Hell is like....    Period....    If you have some idea as to what either Heaven or Hell IS actually like, I would Love to hear your words....  You are a mortal MAN, right...?  I am thinking that there would be no words to describe such things in a language that we could all understand....  BUT, that would be an assumption on my part....  So, I withdraw my thinking in this portion of my response, and hope to hear yours....  I chorduly and respectfully ask you to share your perception of Heaven and Hell with all of us.... 
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And that leaves us to your comments about Jesus....  I just don't remember mercilious beatings and crucification being part of any 10 Commandments that I ever read....?    It was a very selfless act on Jesus's part as to be for the betterment of mankind as we know it....  He did it to take away the sins of the world, not for himself, for YOU and I....    I think that at least (for me) demands a large amount of respect and admiration....  HE took my sins away....  Gone....  How could anyone emulate that....?    And not that I would be wanting of such a thing for myself, but if GOD asked me, I would have no choice....  Just as we don't have a lot of choices in this world that we claim to "know"....  If you see it differently, I would ask that you also share your perspectives as opposed to trying to knock mine down....  :smile:  :heart:
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ME....


:heartpump:


--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."

>^;;^<

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Re: FAI?H in JeSuS ChriS?.... Just the Beggining of Seeing the Beauty of This World.... [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #3933165 - 03/17/05 10:20 PM (19 years, 5 days ago)

Quote:

PhanTomCat said:
At that time when I made that post you quoted, I had not challenged what I considered "right" and "wrong", AND as stated in that quote, I was quoting what I knew to be truth "as I knew it"- without challenge....  That is why I said I might get "zapped" for making my last post....  (did you read my last post?)  Am I not allowed to evolve my understanding with new things that are presented to me....?





If you have realized that being a Christian isnt the ONLY way in to "heaven"

:bow:


Quote:

If you have some idea as to what either Heaven or Hell IS actually like, I would Love to hear your words....




Heven and Hell are both a part of this world.

This "meatspace".

Some people tend to live a "gifted" life (heaven). Some people live a "herd" life (hell).


Quote:

You are a mortal MAN, right...?




Yes the body is mortal but the soul is eternal.



Quote:

And that leaves us to your comments about Jesus....  I just don't remember mercilious beatings and crucification being part of any 10 Commandments that I ever read....?





Teh 10 commandments were broken by the Riomans who did the crucifying/ All Jesus could do was endure what life had dealt him.

He never broke any of the Commandments.   


Quote:

It was a very selfless act on Jesus's part as to be for the betterment of mankind as we know it....




He was executed for teaching/saying things that the Romans didnt want to hear and they killed him for it.

period


Quote:

He did it to take away the sins of the world, not for himself, for YOU and I....





He didnt chose to do it...it was forced upon him. Like any political execution he was killed for his beliefs.

Oh and Jesus's dying did NOT take sin away from the planet.....sorry.

Quote:

HE took my sins away....  Gone....  How could anyone emulate that....?




Are you saying that sin dosent exist???

Please explain......

Im guessing that you believe that if Charles Manson or Hitler, would go to heaven if they believed that Jesus is the "Savior of man/Son of God"


--------------------
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Don't be bogged down by your past
Don't be afraid of what lies in your future

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Re: FAI?H in JeSuS ChriS?.... Just the Beggining of Seeing the Beauty of This World.... [Re: niteowl]
    #3933223 - 03/17/05 10:54 PM (19 years, 5 days ago)

Quote:

niteowl said:
Quote:

He did it to take away the sins of the world, not for himself, for YOU and I....



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He didnt chose to do it...it was forced upon him. Like any political execution he was killed for his beliefs.
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Oh and Jesus's dying did NOT take sin away from the planet.....sorry.
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Quote:

HE took my sins away....  Gone....  How could anyone emulate that....?



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Are you saying that sin dosent exist???
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Please explain......
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Im guessing that you believe that if Charles Manson or Hitler, would go to heaven if they believed that Jesus is the "Savior of man/Son of God"



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After this, I need to get off of the computer for the night....  It was a very enknowledging day....  :smile:
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I know that Jesus's crucification was forced upon him, but he full well caried the cross thru the streets with conviction, with intent....  He could have fled before they came and took him for his punishment, but he was knowingly ready to face what was coming, and had a last supper -as I remember....  So, he submitted to it, as I see it, for a betterment of man as said, to take away the sins of the world instead of fleeing....  It was part of a plan, so that we could live and be happy, and happy I shall be, well, until I am not happy....!    :lol:
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And for me to explain would be for you to except Jesus into your heart....   
There are no words other than that, as they are no mear words, it is belief....        :shrug:
Note:  just saying the words, and saying the words and meaning it with your very being, ARE very different things....
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Whoever may read this, have a wonderFULL night....  :smile:  :heart:


ME....


:heartpump:


--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."

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Re: FAI?H in JeSuS ChriS?.... Just the Beggining of Seeing the Beauty of This World.... [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #3933958 - 03/18/05 03:27 AM (19 years, 5 days ago)

Quote:

PhanTomCat said
He could have fled before they came and took him for his punishment, but he was knowingly ready to face what was coming, and had a last supper -as I remember....




He didn't flee because he couldn't. He had upset the Romans and their was no escape.

The Romans had to make an example out of him.

They tried to be as civil about it as they could be for the times.....letting him have a "last supper"; allowing him to be killed after only 3 days rather than 7-10 days(when the soldier pierced his side with the sword);allowing him to be crucified near his grave site.

True he suffered a brutal beating.....but his Crucifixion was mild for the era.

Quote:

So, he submitted to it, as I see it, for a betterment of man as said, to take away the sins of the world instead of fleeing....




How does his death "take away the sins of the world"?

I never did understand that.

People who are uber~religious get caught up on the story of his death and that should not be message of Jesus.

When I said that we should emulate Jesus. I didn't mean we should go out and get crucified. I meant that we should live our lives as Jesus did.....love thy enemy; turn the other cheek; do unto others as you would have them do unto you....

That is the message we need to take away from the story of Christ.

Not how he died......but how he LIVED.


The "church" made up parts of the bible to make people act a certain way. Too control them.


--------------------
Live for the moment you are in now
Don't be bogged down by your past
Don't be afraid of what lies in your future

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Re: FAI?H in JeSuS ChriS?.... Just the Beggining of Seeing the Beauty of This World.... [Re: niteowl]
    #3934113 - 03/18/05 05:06 AM (19 years, 5 days ago)

Jesus spoke from the Christ Consciousness, hence "I Am The Way, the Truth, and the Life". He was not refering to the dogma we know today as christianity, he was refering to the Christ Consciousness.


--------------------
"It is never a question of belief; the only scientific attitude one can take on any subject is whether it is true. The law of gravitation worked as efficiently before Newton as after him. The cosmos would be fairly chaotic if its laws could not operate without the sanction of human belief." -- Sri Yukteswar

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Re: FAI?H in JeSuS ChriS?.... Just the Beggining of Seeing the Beauty of This World.... [Re: Delusion_of_Self]
    #3935217 - 03/18/05 10:48 AM (19 years, 5 days ago)

True, but most "good christians" (ones spouting "Jesus is the savior of man") are caught up in the drama/dogma of their religion.......not the true meaning behind the religion.

I believe that you can find "enlightenment" without having to believe in the "Christian" religion.

Most...if not all...."good Christians" dont see it that way.


--------------------
Live for the moment you are in now
Don't be bogged down by your past
Don't be afraid of what lies in your future

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Re: FAI?H in JeSuS ChriS?.... Just the Beggining of Seeing the Beauty of This World.... [Re: niteowl]
    #3935420 - 03/18/05 11:36 AM (19 years, 5 days ago)

That's the problem...

A fameous shef comes to teach a few people how to cook a good meal, and they end up immitating the way he stands or talks or his hairstyle.

That is what happened with christianity. A guy comes with some good advice for peace and love, and they turn it into some rituals where you have to have crosses around your neck, or repeat the way this guy was having dinner.

so if you want to make a good meal, does it really go to waste if you don't comb your hair the same way the shef did, the one that showed you how to cook? no


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine

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Re: FAI?H in JeSuS ChriS?.... Just the Beggining of Seeing the Beauty of This World.... [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #3935917 - 03/18/05 01:36 PM (19 years, 5 days ago)

Quote:

niteowl said:
The Romans had to make an example out of him.
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They tried to be as civil about it as they could be for the times.....letting him have a "last supper"; allowing him to be killed after only 3 days rather than 7-10 days(when the soldier pierced his side with the sword);allowing him to be crucified near his grave  site.
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True he suffered a brutal beating.....but his Crucifixion was mild for the era.



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I think it *might* have been considered mild because the Romans KNEW that Jesus had done no wrong, they were making an example of him, out of PURE FEAR that his teachings might be heard and emulated....  Which would very much be considered Control.... 
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NiteOwl, I very much thank YOU for pointing this out to me....  :heart:
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One thing I would like to point out to you....  Jesus, even after the brutal beatings and humiliation(COMPLETELY contrairy to his teachings and way of life), still NEVER GAVE UP HOPE, NOR his FAITH in GOD....  He NEVER FAULTERED once, and he FORGAVE those people that were acting out of EVIL intentions as "it" happened....  Jesus gave EVERYTHING he had with an absolute DRIVE for his convictions and promise to GOD to carry that cross, no matter how much pain, suffering, humiliation or hunger he went thru....  Otherwise known as "Personal Selfless SACRIFICE"....    THAT, is why his death was so important in the "big picture"....  He selflessly did it With his FAITH in GOD, so that we ALL could one day choose to live without the burdons and guilt of sin....  Once we are all able to do this together as one, this little world we live in will become a MUCH BRIGHTER place - with a MUCH bigger meaning....  Which brings me to the next point you *may* be thinking already....
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Quote:

Quote:

So, he submitted to it, as I see it, for a betterment of man as said, to take away the sins of the world instead of fleeing....



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How does his death "take away the sins of the world"?
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I never did understand that.



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You just may never understand as I do, until you believe and embrace the full meaning of Jesus's purpose to the world....  If you accept and welcome Jesus into your heart, you will understand, and you will find true peace and joy within your life....  Until then, you may never understand this to it's full potential....  BUT, this is not for me to say that what you choose is wrong, as it is not....  I would NEVER look down on you for not taking a "Leap of Faith"....    When or IF you so CHOOSE to do so, you will see that everyone has a chance to live free from sin and the burdons of guilt from your past sins and wrongful doings in life....  Perhaps only you know what you have done out of negative intentions, but because you do know, that will always be as part of the weight of burdon on your shoulders....  Acceptance to the fact that you have done these things in your past is just a realization of the weight and burdon.... 
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You may be able to condition yourself to NOT view this weight, but it will always be there - UNTIL you accept Jesus into your heart, to lift those very sins off of your very being....  Then you can go on about your life in Peace and Joy to act out of pure GOOD intentions, because then, you will truly be living in a way as to be unstaind by the world around you - if you choose to do so, and continued on that path....  And again, I would NEVER look down upon you for your choices....  That is the way life was intended to be for us all - UNTIL the point where EVIL reared it's ugly deceptive head and gave MAN the choice to act out on EVIL.... 
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:heart: + :sun: = :sun::heartpump::sun:
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(the sun is symbolic of the Son of GOD in the above....)
(and to be noted that I BELEIVE we are ALL children of GOD....)
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Quote:

People who are uber~religious get caught up on the story of his death and that should not be  message of Jesus.



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I have not gotten caught up on anything, I praise Jesus for every aspect of his life....  Even the imperfect parts of it, as man, and before he found GOD, he did make mistakes....  Just like you and I.... 
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Quote:

When I said that we should emulate Jesus. I didn't mean we should go out and get crucified. I meant that we should live our lives as Jesus did.....love thy enemy; turn the other cheek; do unto others as you would have them do unto you....
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That is the message we need to take away from the story of Christ.
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Not how he died......but how he LIVED.



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You cannot embrace Jesus's FULL meaning to this world unless you embrace every part of him....  The living teachings, as well as his purpose in death....  It brings tears to my eyes as I type this thinking how one MAN (embracing GOD as the Holy Ghost in his heart) who would try to spread LOVE to the world would have to suffer such a tragic ending....    :crying: :heart:
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Quote:

The "church" made up parts of the bible to make people act a certain way. Too control them.



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The more you share your personal Spiritual understanding with me, the more I am starting to realize the "control" part you are speaking of....  For this, I cannot express my personal undying gratitude for you speaking openly about your beliefs....  I can only HOPE and have FAITH that you can also find TRUTH and LOVE in my understanding of Spirituality and GOD as well - as we may learn together in understanding of each other....  This is as a neverending journey of evolving in understanding of perceived knowledge of the Spirit, and of GOD....  For this, but not as a requirement, I do LOVE YOU for being YOU....  :smile:  I honestly can't thank you enough for how you have helped to open my eyes just a little bit more than they already were....  :heartpump:
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Again, I will say that I am not a person that knows all, nor am I trying to be "smug" or "preachy"....  I do NOT consider myself to be a Christian, this is just where my interest is leading me at this point in my life in understanding religion and the TRUTH behind it....  Jesus lived for something much bigger than himself, and I do think us speaking about him has brought a much greater understanding of his meaning and purpose in life to me personally....  I hope you see that Spiritual evolution is just that, a learning process that one goes thru to find a completeness and uber JOY when looking at the world thru unstaind intentions, and ACTING on personal choice of expressing one's feelings ONLY thru selfless positive actions towards another as well as one's self.... 
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WE....
^^^ Had to be turned upside down....!

:sun:


--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."

>^;;^<

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Re: FAI?H in JeSuS ChriS?.... Just the Beggining of Seeing the Beauty of This World.... [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #3935986 - 03/18/05 01:54 PM (19 years, 5 days ago)

i dint mean to be rude here but you keep going on and on and Jesus...i know he works for you and your life and that is cool but why do you continue to post this everyday???? you know Jesus was Jewish not Christan...i dint even know how the religion even started that name...JESUS WAS JEWISH and he did not like the way Romans where making money off Jewish traditions he talked about it and got killed for his thoughts...I'm Jewish and i think he was just like any other man with open thoughts and people followed ....if he was here today and seen how his thought was spun out of control he would be sick...you go to a church you get asked for money ..you watch a christan channel they want money and jesus will save you...you go to a jewish temple and it is simple...not like most churches..I'm sorry for my views but i guess we are being op em here...and you like to voice yours...


--------------------
"Six words: drop out, turn on, then come back and tune it in -and then drop out again, and turn on, and tune it back in-it's a rhythm- most of us think God made this universe in nature-subject object-predicate sentences-turn on, tune in, drop out- period, end of paragraph. Turn the page- it's all a rhythm- it's all a beat. You turn on, you find it inside, and then you have to come back (since you can't stay high all the time) and you have to build a better model. But don't get caught - don't get hooked - don't get attracted by the thing you're building, cause... you gotta drop out again. It's a cycle. Turn on, tune in, drop out. Keep it going, keep it going- the nervous system works that way. gotta keep it flowing- keep it flowing.

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Re: FAI?H in JeSuS ChriS?.... Just the Beggining of Seeing the Beauty of This World.... [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #3936520 - 03/18/05 04:29 PM (19 years, 5 days ago)

Quote:

PhanTomCat said:
I think it *might* have been considered mild because the Romans KNEW that Jesus had done no wrong, they were making an example of him, out of PURE FEAR that his teachings might be heard and emulated.... Which would very much be considered Control....





Yea CONTROL the same kind of control/fear the Church has used to control the TRUE message of Jesus.

Not that he was some "Son of God".......but just a man with a pure spirit, unhindered by "sin" (temptation, anger, lust...)

Jesus was a pure spirit sent to teach us how to live our life. He showed us how God wanted us to use the 10 commandments. A living example of how we are menat to live.

The Church twisted the "meaning" of Jesus.

Twisted Him into a "GOD". Made His death into something it wasnt. His death had nothing to do with "saving your soul".

He was no "god" my friend.

Just a man.

Quote:

One thing I would like to point out to you.... Jesus, even after the brutal beatings and humiliation(COMPLETELY contrairy to his teachings and way of life), still NEVER GAVE UP HOPE, NOR his FAITH in GOD.... He NEVER FAULTERED once, and he FORGAVE those people that were acting out of EVIL intentions as "it" happened....




The 10 Commandments in action here.





Quote:

If you accept and welcome Jesus into your heart, you will understand, and you will find true peace and joy within your life....




I have found peace and joy in my life. Jesus dying had very little to do with that tho.


Quote:

You may be able to condition yourself to NOT view this weight, but it will always be there - UNTIL you accept Jesus into your heart, to lift those very sins off of your very being....




again you dont have to believe that Jusus is the "Son of God" to live a peacefull life.


Quote:

Jesus lived for something much bigger than himself....





Yea.

The same thing you need to be living your life for...


God



Worship God by emulating Jesus.


Dont worship Jesus.


Jesus died because of the way he lived his life.

Not to remove sin from man.

Their is still PLENTY of sin to go around.

I wonder who is teaching you the bible?



What "Church" group?





Their are MANY


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Re: FAI?H in JeSuS ChriS?.... Just the Beggining of Seeing the Beauty of This World.... [Re: niteowl]
    #3936554 - 03/18/05 04:39 PM (19 years, 5 days ago)

"you do not see, the beauty of this world, you is it"
-Unknown :P


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Re: FAI?H in JeSuS ChriS?.... Just the Beggining of Seeing the Beauty of This World.... [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #3936613 - 03/18/05 04:53 PM (19 years, 5 days ago)

I see the beauty of the world with no assistance from anyone. It is a natural human tendancy.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: FAI?H in JeSuS ChriS?.... Just the Beggining of Seeing the Beauty of This World.... [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3936665 - 03/18/05 05:03 PM (19 years, 5 days ago)

Odd... I had to let Jesus in my heart, and open my mind to God before I saw beauty... :whatever:


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
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Re: FAI?H in JeSuS ChriS?.... Just the Beggining of Seeing the Beauty of This World.... [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #3937182 - 03/18/05 06:39 PM (19 years, 5 days ago)

That's really a tough one....so for you to see beauty there are all these complex conditions...you got screwed, man!


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: FAI?H in JeSuS ChriS?.... Just the Beggining of Seeing the Beauty of This World.... [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3937190 - 03/18/05 06:41 PM (19 years, 5 days ago)

:lol:


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
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Re: FAI?H in JeSuS ChriS?.... Just the Beggining of Seeing the Beauty of This World.... [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #3942331 - 03/19/05 11:53 PM (19 years, 3 days ago)

i think you talk so much about Jesus..to convinse yourself that you really do believe...and you ingenue every post i write...i guess you don't like the truth...find yourself not Jesus...you are the only one that can make you find the truth...


--------------------
"Six words: drop out, turn on, then come back and tune it in -and then drop out again, and turn on, and tune it back in-it's a rhythm- most of us think God made this universe in nature-subject object-predicate sentences-turn on, tune in, drop out- period, end of paragraph. Turn the page- it's all a rhythm- it's all a beat. You turn on, you find it inside, and then you have to come back (since you can't stay high all the time) and you have to build a better model. But don't get caught - don't get hooked - don't get attracted by the thing you're building, cause... you gotta drop out again. It's a cycle. Turn on, tune in, drop out. Keep it going, keep it going- the nervous system works that way. gotta keep it flowing- keep it flowing.

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Re: FAI?H in JeSuS ChriS?.... Just the Beggining of Seeing the Beauty of This World.... [Re: starptv23]
    #3942515 - 03/20/05 12:53 AM (19 years, 3 days ago)

Nah...

I talk in regards to Jesus to prove that no actual correlation of his existance is viable... and for all we know Zeus, the thunder god is just as real... As is RA the sun God, as is Eris the goddess of Discord.

Damn right about one thing starptv23... I don't like the truth, as the truth of the matter is that truth is ultimately subjective...

One truth to fit them all.... truth's aren't spandex... you can stretch them however you see fit, doesn't mean they'll fit on the largest waist so to speak.

If I have to make myself find the truth... it isn't inherent, hence me having to pretend to believe it, by making myself do it... Truth's are inherent to an individual, to suggest that they all apply equally is relatively foolish. That's a truth from me.... although, perhaps not for you...

Perhaps I  should step aside and allow you to interpret my whole life, and my philosophy on life and ask you for pointers, as you have the knowledge of one book to guide you.... Please, help my wayward soul and guide me so I can be just like you! :shrug:

Truth is relative...


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.

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Offlinestarptv23
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Re: FAI?H in JeSuS ChriS?.... Just the Beggining of Seeing the Beauty of This World.... [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #3946856 - 03/20/05 10:37 PM (19 years, 2 days ago)

brother that is not what iam saying to you that i want you to follow in my way of thinking...but you put so much on this sight about jesus being the one almost like you are imposing your way of thinking on me or anyone else that reads your posts...i hope you well on your path of happiness ...we all one in the end...


--------------------
"Six words: drop out, turn on, then come back and tune it in -and then drop out again, and turn on, and tune it back in-it's a rhythm- most of us think God made this universe in nature-subject object-predicate sentences-turn on, tune in, drop out- period, end of paragraph. Turn the page- it's all a rhythm- it's all a beat. You turn on, you find it inside, and then you have to come back (since you can't stay high all the time) and you have to build a better model. But don't get caught - don't get hooked - don't get attracted by the thing you're building, cause... you gotta drop out again. It's a cycle. Turn on, tune in, drop out. Keep it going, keep it going- the nervous system works that way. gotta keep it flowing- keep it flowing.

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OfflineDelusion_of_Self
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Re: FAI?H in JeSuS ChriS?.... Just the Beggining of Seeing the Beauty of This World.... [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #3947752 - 03/21/05 06:48 AM (19 years, 2 days ago)

Quote:

Psychoactive1984 said:
Odd... I had to let Jesus in my heart, and open my mind to God before I saw beauty... :whatever:




The way I understand it is not per se to let "Jesus" into your heart and become of blind faith. This is like shutting ones eyes and blindly believing to find your way home. The point is to tune your consciousness with Christ Consciousness. This is like opening your eyes so you can truly find your way home. Christ Consciousness or Universal Consciousness is the reflection of God the absolut in the creation.


--------------------
"It is never a question of belief; the only scientific attitude one can take on any subject is whether it is true. The law of gravitation worked as efficiently before Newton as after him. The cosmos would be fairly chaotic if its laws could not operate without the sanction of human belief." -- Sri Yukteswar

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Offlinebobbyrox
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Re: FAI?H in JeSuS ChriS?.... Just the Beggining of Seeing the Beauty of This World.... [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #3947901 - 03/21/05 07:55 AM (19 years, 2 days ago)


HEy Bro, i've got to give you some advice:

For a while now I've been obseving, analyzing, and infering religion, how religious people act and how they address others who are not religious.

I came to the realization that all religions are founded on faith

At first sight one might be astounded at such an obvious fact, but what many forget to realize is that the implications which arise from this fact are many and very profound.

Since religion is based on fatih this means that it's truth (that it conveys) can only be understood through faith. This in turn means that one cannot understand religion through reason, since reason is contrary to faith. Therefore whatever belief/"truth" that religious people try to convey, is all based on faith and in turn can only be understood through this.

IF one were to ask any religous person how they came to believe and "feel" apart of their "God(s)" they will most certainly tell you that it came about through a mystical experience that they had, which for them acted as a discovery in realizing that this religion is true and that they must follow it in order to gain happiness. This mystical experience acts as the NECESSARY AND ONLY process from which faith must result.

This mystical experience is what I identify as being the initiation and prerequisite to all relious understanding. Since faith is gained only thorugh the process of a mystical experience, this means that one must go through a mystical experience in order to understand all religous "TRUTHS". Therefore religion can only be tought to those who already have gone through this mystical experience and have gained faith.

Teaching religion is only appropriate when it is directed toward those who already have faith. It doesn't apply to non-believers because these people expect everything that's being taught to be based on reason, as everything else is in the world, and of course because people who don't believe don't have faith; they haven't gone through a mystical experience.

Therefore when non-believers are faced with religion THEY SHOULDN'T BE EXPECTED TO BELIEVE.

ALL RELIGOUS TEACHINGS PRESUPPOSE THAT THOSE WHO ARE BEING TAUGHT HAVE FAITH.

THE PROCESS FOR GAINING FAITH, UNFORTUNATELY, OCCURS SPONTANEOUSLY.

I hate it when people say u'll go to hell if you don't believe in god. THIS ID SOOOOOO STUPID. This is because these people who say this are precisely those who have faith, and have forgotten that faith is a necessary prerequisite to all religious understanding.
So when they tell me I should believe in God i just become SO REPULSED BY THEIR PROFOUNDLY FUCKED UP IGNORANT MINDS.

Why should I believe in God?

Pascals wager: HE COULD BE ALIVE!

WHat bullshit!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Why should I believe in something that can't be proven rationally but can only be understood through faith, which solely occurs through the means of SPONTENEITY!!!!!!!!

Ok so lets say that he could be real. This is what some come to think. They believe that just because alot of people believe in GOD, GOD might in fact be real. OH NO!! I'm SCARED.

THIS IS THE BIGGEST HYPOCRACY AND DENIAL OF LIFE (DEATH> MURDER) THAT ANYONE HAS EVER COMMITED.

This is because to believe in GOD based on a majority consesus is like believing that since many people believe money makes you happy you will believe this also. THIs is what religous people maintain: we all believe in "money" you must aswell if you ever want to be happy.
No one believes this, intellectuals at least. Obviously when people tell you that only money makes you happy, you start to think rationally (the "TRUE" means of understanding) and begin infering, based on ur own capabilities, and conclude that money satisfies temporary physical desires, which in the end isn't real happiness because true happiness is characterized as being eternal, since such a thing truely exists (read DESCARTES FOR A BETTER UNDERSTANDING OF ETERNITY=EXISTENCE. Therefore reason makes one REALIZE THE TRUTH.

Ok so if one were to do the same for relgious truth, one would begin to realize that there is no rational connection between God and his existence, for if there was it would have been an established truth long ago, and that therefore what ever God says must be false.

So, through other means, other than reason, for understanding Religous truth must either be FAITH or IRRATIONALITY. Fear begets irrationality.

People fear that God might exist (which is IRRATIONAL) therefore they come to believe in him.

These people are the zombies of the world, they have denied life (they have denied the means for understanding anything true which then results in an illusionary life)and are like the dead walking the earth, creating problems and destroying everything in their path.


WE MUST AWAKE>COME BACK TO LIFE, and realize the significance of using reason in life.

RELIGION IS JUST THE PRODUCT OF SPONTENEITY. And it's followers are mostly zombhies. They have denied the means of creating life and bringing "TRUE" happiness to this world.

FAITH BEGETS CONFLICT/PROBLEMS/DESTRUCTION BECAUSE IT IS SUBJECTIVE AND THEREFORE IRRELEVANT TO ANYONE WHO DOES NOT SHARE IT.

SPONTENEITY>FAITH>RELIGION>RELIGIOUS TRUTH>BULLSHIT>PROBLEMS

**********************************************
______________________________________________

If anyone agrees ar wich to refute me, they can doe so, but for those who are with me can email me at mike_machado@hotmail.com,

KNOWLEDGE IS POWER> KEEP THE POWER FLOWING>
RELIGION>DEATH?
You may choose only one


Votes accepted from (03/21/05 07:55 AM) to (No end specified)
View the results of this poll


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Offlinebobbyrox
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Re: FAI?H in JeSuS ChriS?.... Just the Beggining of Seeing the Beauty of This World.... [Re: bobbyrox]
    #3947943 - 03/21/05 08:07 AM (19 years, 2 days ago)



BELIEVERS OF TRUTH BEING SUBJECTIVE>RELATIVE>ULTIMATELY UNATTATINABLE: READ POSITIVE PHILOSOPHY.

Positive philosophy agrees and describes the whole human epistmelogical phenomena involved in human understang.

This phenomena consists of three stages:
1. Believeing that every external object is an enitity(soul/GOD) which in itself has a will.

2. Believing that there is one supreme Force/ energy/God that controls/wills and determines everything that occurs in existence.

3. Coming to the realization that any real truth is impossible to attain because of the many inconsistencies/contradictions/variableness
that is contained in all "TRUTH". THIS MEANS THAT ONE LIVES LIFE BY FUNCTIONAING/OPERATING ON A BASIS WITHOUT PURPOSE, BUT LIVING IN CONTENTENTMENT NONETHELESS BECAUSE OF THIS REALIZATION.

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OfflineDelusion_of_Self
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Re: FAI?H in JeSuS ChriS?.... Just the Beggining of Seeing the Beauty of This World.... [Re: starptv23]
    #3947968 - 03/21/05 08:17 AM (19 years, 2 days ago)

I am very sorry starptv23. My comment was meant to this post...

Quote:

Psychoactive1984 said:
Nah...

I talk in regards to Jesus to prove that no actual correlation of his existance is viable... and for all we know Zeus, the thunder god is just as real... As is RA the sun God, as is Eris the goddess of Discord.

Damn right about one thing starptv23... I don't like the truth, as the truth of the matter is that truth is ultimately subjective...

One truth to fit them all.... truth's aren't spandex... you can stretch them however you see fit, doesn't mean they'll fit on the largest waist so to speak.

If I have to make myself find the truth... it isn't inherent, hence me having to pretend to believe it, by making myself do it... Truth's are inherent to an individual, to suggest that they all apply equally is relatively foolish. That's a truth from me.... although, perhaps not for you...

Perhaps I  should step aside and allow you to interpret my whole life, and my philosophy on life and ask you for pointers, as you have the knowledge of one book to guide you.... Please, help my wayward soul and guide me so I can be just like you! :shrug:

Truth is relative...





Is the container of your truths so full that there is no room for more?

Instead of proving what you don't believe, why don't you try to understand it so you can truly disaprove it. How can you truly disapprove something while assuming it's not true?

Edited by Delusion_of_Self (03/21/05 01:05 PM)

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Anonymous

Re: FAI&#8224;H in JeSuS ChriS&#8224;.... Just the Beggining of Seeing the Beauty of This World.... [Re: Delusion_of_Self]
    #3948007 - 03/21/05 08:33 AM (19 years, 2 days ago)

all i KNOW, is that i am equal to jesus, and so is any lost serial killer.  we are all equal. what we do with our lives is what determines how much we grow here and if we will make it to "heaven".  I personally am already there, but sometimes, im in the other mind state(you know, hell :smirk: cuz i get pissed off too easily at times)

the only way that you will not go back into the light that you came here from, right away, is if after viewing your life you are too ashamed of it to even show your face to others, so YOU, after JUDGING YOURSELF, run away into the darkness(which is totally void of love, you can call this "hell", but by no means is hell a lake of fire that you burn in forever, that is silly and pointless) until YOU can come to forgive YOURSELF.  Its all on you. :heart:  I've recently become aware that drugs, even shrooms, hold you back from progressing spiritually.  Look within WITHOUT drugs if you want to grow in spirit....drugs wont help you, they will make you more lost and confused. Do them if you want to grow in ego :wink: dont be fooled by your ego's people.

jesus is simply a brother of the light, just like all of you are.  we are equal. believe that. do not fear the preachings of the bible, fear yourself if you have reason to.  its not too late to change your ways if you are more negative than positive.  forgive yaself and start shinin his light :heart:

Edited by Kottonmouth (03/21/05 08:43 AM)

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OfflineDelusion_of_Self
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Re: FAI&#8224;H in JeSuS ChriS&#8224;.... Just the Beggining of Seeing the Beauty of This World... [Re: ]
    #3948108 - 03/21/05 09:10 AM (19 years, 2 days ago)

How can the ego be the same as the soul?


--------------------
"It is never a question of belief; the only scientific attitude one can take on any subject is whether it is true. The law of gravitation worked as efficiently before Newton as after him. The cosmos would be fairly chaotic if its laws could not operate without the sanction of human belief." -- Sri Yukteswar

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Anonymous

Re: FAI&#8224;H in JeSuS ChriS&#8224;.... Just the Beggining of Seeing the Beauty of This World... [Re: Delusion_of_Self]
    #3948142 - 03/21/05 09:24 AM (19 years, 2 days ago)

it isnt.

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OfflineDelusion_of_Self
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Re: FAI&#8224;H in JeSuS ChriS&#8224;.... Just the Beggining of Seeing the Beauty of This World... [Re: ]
    #3948646 - 03/21/05 11:49 AM (19 years, 2 days ago)

Exactly... We are the same in essence... but definitely not the same...


--------------------
"It is never a question of belief; the only scientific attitude one can take on any subject is whether it is true. The law of gravitation worked as efficiently before Newton as after him. The cosmos would be fairly chaotic if its laws could not operate without the sanction of human belief." -- Sri Yukteswar

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Anonymous

Re: FAI&#8224;H in JeSuS ChriS&#8224;.... Just the Beggining of Seeing the Beauty of This World... [Re: Delusion_of_Self]
    #3948760 - 03/21/05 12:12 PM (19 years, 2 days ago)

:confused: but what is your point? i dont understand, loll

cuz i never tried to say the ego was same as soul...

but what i get out of "We are the same in essence... but definitely not the same... " is that you are saying we are all the same spirit, but each our own individual soul...which makes us each unique, but yet we are still made from the same spirit of god.  yeah?

but no i didnt mean to say ego and soul are the same...im straight up saying that shrooms do not do anything for your soul, they only feed ego. believe that. they are no good for spiritual advancement, they only hold u back, cuz the feeling is artificial(from psilocybin)...real love is within and you dont need anything to feel it or tap into it.  just let go of ego, and feel the love that you are. :heart:

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OfflineDelusion_of_Self
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Re: FAI&#8224;H in JeSuS ChriS&#8224;.... Just the Beggining of Seeing the Beauty of This World... [Re: ]
    #3948909 - 03/21/05 12:58 PM (19 years, 2 days ago)

You are basically telling me that we are the same as a realized master who has acheived Universal Consciousness. I disagree. We all have a soul, in that we are the same. Limited consciousness is in no way the same as Universal Consciousness.

Mushrooms hold you back if you let them. I never said that by consuming mushrooms alone you progress spiritually. Not everyone respects psychedelic mushrooms nor use them in the same way.

From what I understand it is because our ego that we cannot perceive Universal Consciousness. It is through the ego that we perceive things individually. Depending of the beliefs, concepts or ideas that form part of our consciousness our reality takes shaped.

Why do you think mushroom can provide life changing experiences? We become more conscious of who we are, of what is wrong with you and how to change it. Of course, not everyone can handle them, some can't even handle their individual reality...


--------------------
"It is never a question of belief; the only scientific attitude one can take on any subject is whether it is true. The law of gravitation worked as efficiently before Newton as after him. The cosmos would be fairly chaotic if its laws could not operate without the sanction of human belief." -- Sri Yukteswar

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Anonymous

Re: FAI&#8224;H in JeSuS ChriS&#8224;.... Just the Beggining of Seeing the Beauty of This World... [Re: Delusion_of_Self]
    #3948967 - 03/21/05 01:17 PM (19 years, 2 days ago)

:heart: whatever you say bro

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OfflineDelusion_of_Self
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Re: FAI&#8224;H in JeSuS ChriS&#8224;.... Just the Beggining of Seeing the Beauty of This World... [Re: Delusion_of_Self]
    #3948970 - 03/21/05 01:17 PM (19 years, 2 days ago)

Kottonmouth

You say don't be fooled by our egos. My question is who is being fooled by who? Who is it that you think you are?

You are not in heaven, not even sometimes and if you think you are, you are fooling yourself. Just as you were warning us, please, be aware.


--------------------
"It is never a question of belief; the only scientific attitude one can take on any subject is whether it is true. The law of gravitation worked as efficiently before Newton as after him. The cosmos would be fairly chaotic if its laws could not operate without the sanction of human belief." -- Sri Yukteswar

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OfflineDelusion_of_Self
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Re: FAI&#8224;H in JeSuS ChriS&#8224;.... Just the Beggining of Seeing the Beauty of This World... [Re: Delusion_of_Self]
    #3948984 - 03/21/05 01:22 PM (19 years, 2 days ago)

:heart: love to you too!


--------------------
"It is never a question of belief; the only scientific attitude one can take on any subject is whether it is true. The law of gravitation worked as efficiently before Newton as after him. The cosmos would be fairly chaotic if its laws could not operate without the sanction of human belief." -- Sri Yukteswar

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Anonymous

Re: FAI&#8224;H in JeSuS ChriS&#8224;.... Just the Beggining of Seeing the Beauty of This World... [Re: ]
    #3948992 - 03/21/05 01:24 PM (19 years, 2 days ago)

i personally dont see a reason one should need shrooms.  all answers lie within.  you dont need to add anything to your body to get those answers.  shrooms tax your soul.  i bet you all of you that claim they are so sacred and help you advance spiritually, constantly break down and wonder why...so you go to the shrooms again and again. Well wtf is that?  the feeling of peace you feel, is not real, it is from your ego.  you just dont see how that could be, your faith in the shrooms are too strong for someone like me(some dude on the net) to break.  its all on you to see the truth. :heart:  All i know is you will NOT advance spiritually with drugs. shrooms are drugs...they're no more special than any other drug. they are bad for your soul. this i know to be true, bro.

i mean, i aint looking down on anyone that uses, but i do have a sadness in my heart for those dependent on substances to find truth when all you need is your heart, something you were born with. you came into this world with all you need to find the answers you seek. i cant say much more than this..

edit: all they really do is give you people faith...so whats that tell you about your faith? ..... .. .its fucking weak.

and brothers, sisters, let me tell you....if you think that the feelings you get from your drugs(ego) is good...just imagine the true peace, it blows the ego out of the fuckign water infinite fold. all u have to do is get over your issues, truly, rather than hide...you arent free yet, but once u are..you will fucking soar, and i mean SOAR :heart:

Edited by Kottonmouth (03/21/05 01:39 PM)

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OfflineDelusion_of_Self
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Re: FAI&#8224;H in JeSuS ChriS&#8224;.... Just the Beggining of Seeing the Beauty of This World... [Re: ]
    #3949066 - 03/21/05 01:41 PM (19 years, 2 days ago)

Everyone has their own reasons...be true to yourself. Know what is the intention behind the action. There's a big difference in using them to become more aware than abusing them because they feel good. If you abuse mushrooms you are abusing yourself...eventually you'll suffer the consecuences. I do not depend on them. Dependance equals attachment. I personally believe that it is definitely better to meditate. I do so in the morning and before sleep. I do agree that all you need is within but not everyone can access it as easy as some. I also believe that at some point in spiritual progress there is no longer a need for them.


--------------------
"It is never a question of belief; the only scientific attitude one can take on any subject is whether it is true. The law of gravitation worked as efficiently before Newton as after him. The cosmos would be fairly chaotic if its laws could not operate without the sanction of human belief." -- Sri Yukteswar

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Anonymous

Re: FAI&#8224;H in JeSuS ChriS&#8224;.... Just the Beggining of Seeing the Beauty of This World... [Re: Delusion_of_Self]
    #3949114 - 03/21/05 01:50 PM (19 years, 2 days ago)

what you are not seeing, is it is all abuse. your abusing yourself; your soul.  but like i said, i cant break you of your faith in the shrooms.  all i can do is say my piece :tongue:

Quote:

I do agree that all you need is within but not everyone can access it as easy as some.




this is bullshit. if someone actually believes this, you really need to control the doubt in yourself, you can do it, dont expect to be all buddha in 5 minutes.  we are all equal, i dont wanna hear any excuses.  Some are more advanced souls than others, so they will divinely be more intune than a younger soul.(hey. they earned it. so can the rest of you.)

Quote:

I also believe that at some point in spiritual progress there is no longer a need for them.




they were never needed in the first place.




oh sorry...i missed this post of yours...:

Quote:

Delusion_of_Self said:
Kottonmouth

You say don't be fooled by our egos. My question is who is being fooled by who? Who is it that you think you are?

You are not in heaven, not even sometimes and if you think you are, you are fooling yourself. Just as you were warning us, please, be aware.




how about this, im no buddhist, but i always will use religious examples to help explain the truth ive found.  read his noble truths, one of them clearly states that nirvana cannot be reached with drugs.

Now i turn to homie jesus to say that yes, we can be in heaven while here inbody.  He said the kingdom lies within. he wasnt bullshitting or saying it for shits and giggles... :lol:  thats truth. dont let the dumbass christian fundamentalists ruin all the truth that he actually spoke, he was a very advanced soul. all his lil followers are ego consumed and think they are better than anyone else(that aint jesus style..sorry, they got a lot to learn)

i could honestly ramble from my heart for until i pass the fuck out. :lol:  .... i'll spare you though  :rolleyes:

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OfflineDelusion_of_Self
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Re: FAI&#8224;H in JeSuS ChriS&#8224;.... Just the Beggining of Seeing the Beauty of This World... [Re: Delusion_of_Self]
    #3949170 - 03/21/05 02:00 PM (19 years, 2 days ago)

Yes...there's not really a need for them as there's not a need for a bunch of things in this world but people is still use them. I bet if I knew you in real life I could point out many of them.

My point was that they can be used as a tool, not as THE WAY. Not everyone has the clarity you have and not everyone is as conscious as you are. Be and let be... So you found out you don't need them anymore. Congratulations! REALLY! But you don't have to come here and impose your findings onto others. Be and let be...


--------------------
"It is never a question of belief; the only scientific attitude one can take on any subject is whether it is true. The law of gravitation worked as efficiently before Newton as after him. The cosmos would be fairly chaotic if its laws could not operate without the sanction of human belief." -- Sri Yukteswar

Edited by Delusion_of_Self (03/21/05 02:06 PM)

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InvisibleeMotionALLmotion
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Re: FAI&#8224;H in JeSuS ChriS&#8224;.... Just the Beggining of Seeing the Beauty of This World... [Re: Delusion_of_Self]
    #3949221 - 03/21/05 02:08 PM (19 years, 2 days ago)

For some, they are not needed....  For some, it does not hurt....  Abuse or dependancy in my opinion is based on ones ability to live in a positive manner with or without the drug in question....  Once you don't rule over your use, it rules you, and then it becomes "ABUSE", or "DEPENDANCY"....  When it starts ruling you, it may start effecting your life in a negative way....  And if left going in that direction, it is more difficult to stop the momentum.... 

There is no use debating over it, really.... 

Kottonmouth, if it is not a good thing for you, don't do it....  :heart:

DelusionOfSelf, if it works for you, have at it....!    :heart:

That is what life is all about, individual choices, and living with them....  I happened to use psychedelics in my search, but perhaps they were not needed....  BUT, if I had not used them in the past, perhaps it would have taken longer because I had not thought about such things....  Does it make it wrong....?  No, it was my choice to do so....  Does it make it right....?  It made it right for me....      :peace:  :tongue:


:sun:


--------------------
Uni-VersALL      MasterPeace
eMotive  :sun: Divinity NowThere Infinity :sun:  eMelody

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OfflineDelusion_of_Self
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Re: FAI&#8224;H in JeSuS ChriS&#8224;.... Just the Beggining of Seeing the Beauty of This World... [Re: Delusion_of_Self]
    #3949253 - 03/21/05 02:14 PM (19 years, 2 days ago)

You seem to assume a lot about me...yet you know very little...

Whatever you say...you are the man...you have been in heaven...You see yourself as spiritually advanced yet the way you speaks says a lot about you...


--------------------
"It is never a question of belief; the only scientific attitude one can take on any subject is whether it is true. The law of gravitation worked as efficiently before Newton as after him. The cosmos would be fairly chaotic if its laws could not operate without the sanction of human belief." -- Sri Yukteswar

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Anonymous

Re: FAI&#8224;H in JeSuS ChriS&#8224;.... Just the Beggining of Seeing the Beauty of This World... [Re: Delusion_of_Self]
    #3949271 - 03/21/05 02:16 PM (19 years, 2 days ago)

Quote:

Yes...there's not really a need for them as there's not a need for a bunch of things in this world but people is still use them.




so that makes it ok? :smirk:

Quote:

I bet if I knew you in real life I could point out many of them.




you see man, you arent very wise at all. you shouldnt even try to be speaking on shit you dont know.  I mean, with some of the things you've said, i assume you know that ego creates time and space.  if you do believe that(and if you dont, oh well im saying this regardless for anyone listening to me) then you'd know you would not even have to know me in "real life" to connect to my soul and know things about me.  You can connect with peoples souls and look right through the lies and fakeness.  It takes many lifetimes of working on controlling your ego and being about the love in all situations.

Souls that can do this(very few inbody right now) can know you better than you know yourself(because they see through the bullshit lies that you live to hide from reality with. :wink: )

Quote:

My point was that they can be used as a tool, not as THE WAY.




they arent even a fucking tool.  that is bullshit man, your manipulated. your living an illusion and dont even know it.

oh yeah, did you notice i edited the post before this...make sure u check that out if you havent.

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OfflineDelusion_of_Self
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Re: FAI&#8224;H in JeSuS ChriS&#8224;.... Just the Beggining of Seeing the Beauty of This World... [Re: Delusion_of_Self]
    #3949283 - 03/21/05 02:19 PM (19 years, 2 days ago)

Funny thing is I haven't even used mushrooms in a long time...If I remember correctly I haven't even used them more than 5 times. I am not buddhist neither christian. I don't even belong to no religion...


--------------------
"It is never a question of belief; the only scientific attitude one can take on any subject is whether it is true. The law of gravitation worked as efficiently before Newton as after him. The cosmos would be fairly chaotic if its laws could not operate without the sanction of human belief." -- Sri Yukteswar

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Anonymous

Re: FAI&#8224;H in JeSuS ChriS&#8224;.... Just the Beggining of Seeing the Beauty of This World... [Re: ]
    #3949285 - 03/21/05 02:19 PM (19 years, 2 days ago)

yeah, im done. aint even nobody listening.

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InvisibleeMotionALLmotion
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Re: FAI&#8224;H in JeSuS ChriS&amp;#8224;.... Just the Beggining of Seeing the Beauty of This World... [Re: eMotionALLmotion]
    #3949297 - 03/21/05 02:22 PM (19 years, 2 days ago)

:tongue:


--------------------
Uni-VersALL      MasterPeace
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OfflineDelusion_of_Self
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Re: FAI&#8224;H in JeSuS ChriS&#8224;.... Just the Beggining of Seeing the Beauty of This World... [Re: Delusion_of_Self]
    #3949311 - 03/21/05 02:25 PM (19 years, 2 days ago)

I think you just want to argue...fine...

Do you see me promoting the use of mushrooms?

Did I say I was wise? or wiser than you?

You are arguing with me things that I have not even commented...

You really have some issues that have nothing to do with me...please take it easy...


--------------------
"It is never a question of belief; the only scientific attitude one can take on any subject is whether it is true. The law of gravitation worked as efficiently before Newton as after him. The cosmos would be fairly chaotic if its laws could not operate without the sanction of human belief." -- Sri Yukteswar

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OfflineDelusion_of_Self
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Re: FAI&#8224;H in JeSuS ChriS&#8224;.... Just the Beggining of Seeing the Beauty of This World... [Re: ]
    #3949329 - 03/21/05 02:28 PM (19 years, 2 days ago)

Quote:

Kottonmouth said:
...we are all equal. what we do with our lives is what determines how much we grow here and if we will make it to "heaven".  I personally am already there, but sometimes, im in the other mind state(you know, hell :smirk: cuz i get pissed off too easily at times)




you even recognize that you have a problem...sorry man...but you gotta work on it...


--------------------
"It is never a question of belief; the only scientific attitude one can take on any subject is whether it is true. The law of gravitation worked as efficiently before Newton as after him. The cosmos would be fairly chaotic if its laws could not operate without the sanction of human belief." -- Sri Yukteswar

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Anonymous

Re: FAI&#8224;H in JeSuS ChriS&#8224;.... Just the Beggining of Seeing the Beauty of This World... [Re: ]
    #3949330 - 03/21/05 02:29 PM (19 years, 2 days ago)

i do appologize for coming of as a dickhead, though.

but that wasnt my conscious intent. i only tried to say that drugs are no good. i dont care if you use them once every 10 years, your hurting your soul by doing that, and it sets you back.  i mean if you dont learn that in this life, then ur only gonna have a good chance of repeating the same mistakes in the next.  who am i to say its a mistake to those that aint found that out yet?  well is it better to say somethign or keep pie hole shut?  will anyone else you know be able to tell you this? or would i be the only one that would say anything?  i mean, i guess everything happens for a reason...so if i help cool, if i dont, COOL :heart:

but yeahhh, i got a ego muh fuckers, it shows :lol:  but i still do feel heaven daily...that aint no bullshit. you all do too..you dont even have to be advanced, its who you are. :heart:

i always say im done cuz i just wanna say fuck it.(ego) i did not mean to personally attack you delusion, i spoke to you personally in some areas, but it was out to anyone that would listen.

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InvisibleeMotionALLmotion
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Re: FAI&#8224;H in JeSuS ChriS&#8224;.... Just the Beggining of Seeing the Beauty of This World... [Re: Delusion_of_Self]
    #3949339 - 03/21/05 02:30 PM (19 years, 2 days ago)

:sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun:
:sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun:
:sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun:
:sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun:
:sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun:
:sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun:
:sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun:
:sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun:
:sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun:
:sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun:
:sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun:
:sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun:
:sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun:
:sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun:
:sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun:
:sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun: :sun:

:peace: :peace: :peace: :peace: :peace: :peace: :peace: :peace: :peace: :peace: :peace: :peace: :peace: :peace: :peace: :peace:


Sure is BRIGHT and HOT in here....  :heart:

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OfflineDelusion_of_Self
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Re: FAI&#8224;H in JeSuS ChriS&#8224;.... Just the Beggining of Seeing the Beauty of This World... [Re: ]
    #3949386 - 03/21/05 02:39 PM (19 years, 2 days ago)

Kottonmouth:

Funny thing is that thanks to mushrooms many have woken up to a certain degree...you cannot deny this.

All I say comes from what I have learned. I'm not saying it is 100% correct because that would be foolish. All I'm saying is, this is what I have to offer. Take it or leave it.

I don't think someone that would be advanced would behave in the way you do. I'm not trying to put you down but you seem to have very little control over yourself.

Peace to all...


--------------------
"It is never a question of belief; the only scientific attitude one can take on any subject is whether it is true. The law of gravitation worked as efficiently before Newton as after him. The cosmos would be fairly chaotic if its laws could not operate without the sanction of human belief." -- Sri Yukteswar

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Anonymous

Re: FAI&#8224;H in JeSuS ChriS&#8224;.... Just the Beggining of Seeing the Beauty of This World... [Re: eMotionALLmotion]
    #3949388 - 03/21/05 02:39 PM (19 years, 2 days ago)

i swear i didnt mean to attack him, i was really speaking to anyone that believed that same stuff(which i feel is pretty much everyone if not everyone here, i mean its the shroomery, LOL)

i feel his anger and how he took everything personally, but i really didnt mean to come off as i am somehow perfect or thought he had a lot wrong with him, or else i wouldnt even be here in body tryin to grow... but still, it wouldnt hurt to work on the taking things personal issue...i mean, do you really give a damn what some dude you dont even know thinks of you? why let me dim your shine dawg?(dude, i let myself get way more pissed than you over lesser shit, im sure, i aint attacking u, but i did feel your negativity..thats why i said something)

i didnt mean to spark any drama, just tryin to show you all that these damn shrooms are no good for your soul, moderated use or full out trippin balls all you feel like....their bad. but who the fuck is Kottonmouth to say ANYTHING?....i know. like i tried to say, im just saying my piece, but delusion is the one who fueled what i said, but i did NOT mean for it to be a personal attack.

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InvisibleeMotionALLmotion
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Re: FAI&#8224;H in JeSuS ChriS&#8224;.... Just the Beggining of Seeing the Beauty of This World... [Re: ]
    #3949424 - 03/21/05 02:47 PM (19 years, 2 days ago)

It is all ok, it is just words....  Sometimes you have to look past disagreements and let them go....
(it is fun to debate tho~  :grin: )

Shine.................


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Anonymous

Re: FAI&#8224;H in JeSuS ChriS&#8224;.... Just the Beggining of Seeing the Beauty of This World... [Re: ]
    #3949461 - 03/21/05 02:53 PM (19 years, 2 days ago)

i never said i was advanced, when did i say that??? :confused:

Quote:

Funny thing is that thanks to mushrooms many have woken up to a certain degree...you cannot deny this.




you see, there is not one person that just awakened off of shrooms, i dont believe it. you would be surprised how many liars and fakes there are man, its ridiculous.  The people that take shrooms and claim enlightenment had the knowledge in them to reflect on the entire time.  since the shrooms give you that 'magical' feel, it gives them faith for what they PREVIOUSLY thought.  It was just a matter of giving a shit in the first place, the shrooms were not needed(only THOUGHT to be needed).

yep, as i said, i have a lot of ego controlling to do, this is very true and obvious.  but for real tho, quote me where i claimed to be an advanced soul, i just spoke on them...i never claimed anything.  you simply assumed :tongue:  which is understandable with how i speak, simple and blunt :wink: thats me though man.

Edited by Kottonmouth (03/21/05 03:06 PM)

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OfflineDelusion_of_Self
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Re: FAI&#8224;H in JeSuS ChriS&#8224;.... Just the Beggining of Seeing the Beauty of This World... [Re: ]
    #3949544 - 03/21/05 03:10 PM (19 years, 2 days ago)

Kottonmouth, you said this:

-------

What we do with our lives is what determines how much we grow here and if we will make it to "heaven". I personally am already there, but sometimes, im in the other mind state(you know, hell cuz i get pissed off too easily at times)

-------

Sorry but not a lot of people can claim they are in heaven while being on earth, and to go a bit further while claiming to have a lot of difficulty controling themselves. You have to be advanced and to be somewhat detach from the ego...

From what I understand you seem to contradict yourself. I don't mean to ofend you by this, but this is my view.

EDIT: I said to a degree. Not fully awakened.


--------------------
"It is never a question of belief; the only scientific attitude one can take on any subject is whether it is true. The law of gravitation worked as efficiently before Newton as after him. The cosmos would be fairly chaotic if its laws could not operate without the sanction of human belief." -- Sri Yukteswar

Edited by Delusion_of_Self (03/21/05 03:27 PM)

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OfflineDelusion_of_Self
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Re: FAI&#8224;H in JeSuS ChriS&#8224;.... Just the Beggining of Seeing the Beauty of This World... [Re: Delusion_of_Self]
    #3949556 - 03/21/05 03:11 PM (19 years, 2 days ago)

I read what you edited... Kottonmouth I really have nothing further to add...

Peace to you...


--------------------
"It is never a question of belief; the only scientific attitude one can take on any subject is whether it is true. The law of gravitation worked as efficiently before Newton as after him. The cosmos would be fairly chaotic if its laws could not operate without the sanction of human belief." -- Sri Yukteswar

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Anonymous

Re: FAI&#8224;H in JeSuS ChriS&#8224;.... Just the Beggining of Seeing the Beauty of This World... [Re: Delusion_of_Self]
    #3949650 - 03/21/05 03:34 PM (19 years, 2 days ago)

well if yu wanna run out now thats cool...ill just say this to make what i said above more clear.

when i said i was in heaven, but sometimes not......its because heaven is love. and who hasnt felt love? you atleast were chilling in it when you were little kids... i didnt mean i was in nirvana at all times, then contradicted myself by saying i still have an ego...sorry you misunderstood me.

so you get it now? i feel positive, that is heaven(at the time i was very positive, thats what motivated me to preach on like i did). but sometimes i feel negative, that is hell, being without love/positivity. i guess its easy to understand the confusion, becuase we have different beliefs of what heaven is. but as long as you are feeling love, that is heaven.

but nope, i didnt say i was advanced bro, you took me wrong, hopefuly you can atleast admit that much, doesnt matter tho. just dont be all down over me man, i dont want u being pissed cuz of me. you say peace to me, but i dont feel no peace from you at all. im sorry ok, my ego is a piece of shit, and anytime i get negativity i wanna throw that shit right back! you know what im saying...thats a test i constantly fail, but not always...im getting a lil better, heh.

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OfflineDelusion_of_Self
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Re: FAI&#8224;H in JeSuS ChriS&#8224;.... Just the Beggining of Seeing the Beauty of This World... [Re: ]
    #3949687 - 03/21/05 03:44 PM (19 years, 2 days ago)

I cannot force you to believe me. You feel negativity from me...fine, feel as you will. You think I'm angry, fine. What can I do if that's what you feel? You say you are in heaven sometimes...fine. What can I do? I really don't have a problem...whatever makes you happy...

There is really no point in arguing... I say peace you feel anger...fine...let it be... Best wishes in your progress...


--------------------
"It is never a question of belief; the only scientific attitude one can take on any subject is whether it is true. The law of gravitation worked as efficiently before Newton as after him. The cosmos would be fairly chaotic if its laws could not operate without the sanction of human belief." -- Sri Yukteswar

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Offlineegghead1
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Re: FAI&#8224;H in JeSuS ChriS&#8224;.... Just the Beggining of Seeing the Beauty of This World... [Re: ]
    #3949691 - 03/21/05 03:45 PM (19 years, 2 days ago)

Hey man, i know where your at and its frustrating, ive read a few of your posts and i think i understand why you are having trouble with a few people here becuase to understand anything and life as a whole, one must not be influenced by any narrow and limited views. If you have strong views, they will bring problems whether you believe them to be right or wrong. The views we hold have no substance in themselves for any change of the circumstances upon which the views were based will prove them  unsubstantiated.  While we don't like to be misled by others we do not want to be troubled by our own wrong views. Wrong views produce frustration and bring pain and suffering upon those around us.  In fact all the sufferings are caused by our own ignorance.  Our views or perceptions of any event or our existence in this world mold our attitudes, behaviours and experiences.  Regardless of the correctness of our views, they create deep pain as long as we cling to them.  So, it is essential to cultivate the right view. If we can associate ourselves with the following principles, we will live a full and wholesome life.

1) All living beings are subject to  experience pain and dissatisfaction
2) Everything is impermanent
3) Everything is empty of inherent existence
4) Going beyond suffering is peace

These are the essential truths that i try to recongnize and live my life by, i hope they are of some help to you and all here. These truths are universal for everyone, so i thought i might mention them. :heart:


--------------------
All you need is Love! Really thats it! Infinite Unconditional Love! Just develop that and all else will fall into place perfectly!

Edited by egghead1 (03/21/05 04:05 PM)

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Anonymous

Re: FAI&#8224;H in JeSuS ChriS&#8224;.... Just the Beggining of Seeing the Beauty of This World... [Re: egghead1]
    #3949770 - 03/21/05 04:00 PM (19 years, 2 days ago)

i dont consider it arguing in the least. i just want to make sure i am understood.

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Offlineegghead1
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Re: FAI&#8224;H in JeSuS ChriS&#8224;.... Just the Beggining of Seeing the Beauty of This World... [Re: ]
    #3949814 - 03/21/05 04:06 PM (19 years, 2 days ago)

After a little contemplation i now understand that. Please read above.


--------------------
All you need is Love! Really thats it! Infinite Unconditional Love! Just develop that and all else will fall into place perfectly!

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OfflineDelusion_of_Self
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Re: FAI&#8224;H in JeSuS ChriS&#8224;.... Just the Beggining of Seeing the Beauty of This World... [Re: Delusion_of_Self]
    #3949828 - 03/21/05 04:08 PM (19 years, 2 days ago)

Didn't quite get that... :confused:

EDIT: this comment makes no sense since egghead edited his post.


--------------------
"It is never a question of belief; the only scientific attitude one can take on any subject is whether it is true. The law of gravitation worked as efficiently before Newton as after him. The cosmos would be fairly chaotic if its laws could not operate without the sanction of human belief." -- Sri Yukteswar

Edited by Delusion_of_Self (03/21/05 04:12 PM)

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InvisibleeMotionALLmotion
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Re: FAI&#8224;H in JeSuS ChriS&amp;#8224;.... Just the Beggining of Seeing the Beauty of This World... [Re: egghead1]
    #3949835 - 03/21/05 04:09 PM (19 years, 2 days ago)

:egg:  <~~~ Gotta LOVE that egghead....  :grin:  Words of great wisdom in that great egg....!  :heart:


:sun:


--------------------
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Anonymous

Re: FAI&#8224;H in JeSuS ChriS&#8224;.... Just the Beggining of Seeing the Beauty of This World... [Re: egghead1]
    #3949869 - 03/21/05 04:15 PM (19 years, 2 days ago)

thats cool man, glad you feel me. i just find myself regretting i even TRIED to help people out. some shit i cant even put into words anymore, it is frustrating indeed. but i atleast try to help a brother out. i feel so alone on my journey, only a hand full of others give a half a shit about god and growing spiritually. all others are too weak to give a shit and just a bunch of phonies, its so lonely in this bitch sometimes. i dont just say shit because believe it....if i stress it to the end, its something i KNOW from a higher source, not just some drug experience or speculation or even my PERSONAL experiences(czu thats all they are, just personal experiences, MINE, no one elses)

but when i say drugs tax the soul, i aint playin. but you will all have to learn this on your own, even if it means after you die and see the big picture.(by then its too late to even give a shit though)

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Offlineegghead1
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Re: FAI&#8224;H in JeSuS ChriS&amp;#8224;.... Just the Beggining of Seeing the Beauty of This World. [Re: eMotionALLmotion]
    #3949875 - 03/21/05 04:15 PM (19 years, 2 days ago)


:egg: :egg: :egg: :egg: :egg: :egg: :egg: :egg: :egg: :egg:


--------------------
All you need is Love! Really thats it! Infinite Unconditional Love! Just develop that and all else will fall into place perfectly!

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Anonymous

Re: FAI&#8224;H in JeSuS ChriS&#8224;.... Just the Beggining of Seeing the Beauty of This World... [Re: Delusion_of_Self]
    #3949887 - 03/21/05 04:18 PM (19 years, 2 days ago)

Quote:

Delusion_of_Self said:
Didn't quite get that... :confused:

EDIT: this comment makes no sense since egghead edited his post.




lol, yeah, he commented on our 'arguing'.

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InvisibleeMotionALLmotion
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Re: FAI&#8224;H in JeSuS ChriS&amp;#8224;.... Just the Beggining of Seeing the Beauty of This World. [Re: egghead1]
    #3949889 - 03/21/05 04:18 PM (19 years, 2 days ago)

:lol:


--------------------
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OfflineDelusion_of_Self
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Re: FAI&#8224;H in JeSuS ChriS&#8224;.... Just the Beggining of Seeing the Beauty of This World... [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #3949895 - 03/21/05 04:20 PM (19 years, 2 days ago)

It's hard to help someone if you can't help yourself.

Kottonmouth the problem is that you assume too much. When you assume you make an ass of you and me. :P Can't remember where I read that, but thought it was funny. :smile:


--------------------
"It is never a question of belief; the only scientific attitude one can take on any subject is whether it is true. The law of gravitation worked as efficiently before Newton as after him. The cosmos would be fairly chaotic if its laws could not operate without the sanction of human belief." -- Sri Yukteswar

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InvisibleeMotionALLmotion
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Re: FAI&#8224;H in JeSuS ChriS&#8224;.... Just the Beggining of Seeing the Beauty of This World... [Re: ]
    #3949906 - 03/21/05 04:23 PM (19 years, 2 days ago)

Quote:

Kottonmouth said:
but when i say drugs tax the soul, i aint playin. but you will all have to learn this on your own, even if it means after you die and see the big picture.(by then its too late to even give a shit though)



.
What happened in your life to make you have this view of drugs in general....?  Did something bad happen in your life....?  You don't have to talk about it if you don't want too, but I am curious as to why you have such a strong veiw in your beliefs about this topic....


:sun:


--------------------
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eMotive  :sun: Divinity NowThere Infinity :sun:  eMelody

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Offlineegghead1
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Re: FAI&#8224;H in JeSuS ChriS&#8224;.... Just the Beggining of Seeing the Beauty of This World... [Re: ]
    #3949923 - 03/21/05 04:27 PM (19 years, 2 days ago)

This is a kind of revamp of a previous post on pain. :sun:

It is important to understand sufferings and difficulties of living since they are part of your every day life.  If you can fully understand the meaning of pain, you will not reject it.  The best way to overcome pain is by accepting it. The non-acceptance of pain makes you to believe that you are the only one who is having a hard time and cannot have concern over other people.  Skillful means of handling  sufferings gives birth to compassion but struggle against it intensifies sufferings.  The pain of non-acceptance is far more detrimental than the actual pain itself.  It may sound unfair to have only pain and suffering when every effort of your life is  made to not to have pain.  It is natural for everybody to expect happiness, but it is unobtainable by merely avoiding pain. The destruction of pain can be fully realized when you overcome the fear of pain.  The purpose of life remains confused until you overcame the fear of pain.  The reason why people find difficult to accept pain is, just because they think it is bad and so they shouldn't have it.  If there is going to be pain whether you do this or do something else or do neither, the  very purpose of any action, is to accept its consequences.  Being responsible for what you do and being able to accept its consequences makes a harmonious and productive life.  Do not think that you did something wrong when you were undergoing  some unexpected difficulties.  What would have  happened if you didn't do it at all?  You would have had a problem of a different kind.  Do not consider yourself to be unsuitable to whatever you are doing when difficulties
persist, but remember the saying: No pain no gain.  Try to cultivate a positive view of  pain and its benefits. Do not reject pain for it is there for a reason. Your seriousness and sincerity of engaging  to do something is being tested when you face difficulties which derives from your own effort and you are not going to blame your effort. The meaning and purpose of the difficulties seldom  become clear until you learn to accept it.  Rejection of pain and fear of it give you real trouble and you will not find freedom. 

This view that the pain is unavoidable and it is a fact of life, is one of the  most crucial  element in being able to maintain the right view even in extreme conflicting conditions. If you fail to accept things that are at hand, you will become unable to control your thoughts and speech,  and will commit unskillful actions which you will regret later.  Even if you meditate every morning, you must not forget this principle that suffering is very nature of existence.  Sustaining this view prepares you to cope with the problems and can remain at ease.  Learn to smile in times of trouble to prove changeability of the trouble and let go of attachment to happiness.  Even if you found what you were looking for, it does not last long, so be prepared to let go.  Even if you can make it seem last longer due to attachment, you will not be happy by holding onto a thing that will inevitably part you anyway.

Suffering will not go away unless you honestly accept that parting is the ultimate outcome of all meetings.  Basic acceptance that  pain is the nature of life enables you to lighten your mental worry and anxiety by reflecting on the impermanence of all things.  You were born alone and will die alone.  You will also have to learn to stop blaming others and be responsible of your experiences since they are result of your own making. :heart:


--------------------
All you need is Love! Really thats it! Infinite Unconditional Love! Just develop that and all else will fall into place perfectly!

Edited by egghead1 (03/21/05 04:33 PM)

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OfflineDelusion_of_Self
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Re: FAI&#8224;H in JeSuS ChriS&#8224;.... Just the Beggining of Seeing the Beauty of This World... [Re: Delusion_of_Self]
    #3949932 - 03/21/05 04:28 PM (19 years, 2 days ago)

Quote:

Delusion_of_Self said:
It is through the ego that we perceive things individually. Depending of the beliefs, concepts or ideas that form part of our consciousness our reality takes shaped.





I see a lot of similarity between this and egghead's comment

egghead said
Quote:


Our views or perceptions of any event or our existence in this world mold our attitudes, behaviours and experiences.




--------------------
"It is never a question of belief; the only scientific attitude one can take on any subject is whether it is true. The law of gravitation worked as efficiently before Newton as after him. The cosmos would be fairly chaotic if its laws could not operate without the sanction of human belief." -- Sri Yukteswar

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OfflineDelusion_of_Self
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Re: FAI&#8224;H in JeSuS ChriS&#8224;.... Just the Beggining of Seeing the Beauty of This World... [Re: Delusion_of_Self]
    #3949943 - 03/21/05 04:30 PM (19 years, 2 days ago)

Pain is inevitable. Suffering is a choice.


--------------------
"It is never a question of belief; the only scientific attitude one can take on any subject is whether it is true. The law of gravitation worked as efficiently before Newton as after him. The cosmos would be fairly chaotic if its laws could not operate without the sanction of human belief." -- Sri Yukteswar

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Offlineegghead1
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Re: FAI&#8224;H in JeSuS ChriS&#8224;.... Just the Beggining of Seeing the Beauty of This World... [Re: Delusion_of_Self]
    #3949948 - 03/21/05 04:31 PM (19 years, 2 days ago)

Suffering is the choiceless choice of ignorance.


--------------------
All you need is Love! Really thats it! Infinite Unconditional Love! Just develop that and all else will fall into place perfectly!

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InvisibleeMotionALLmotion
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Registered: 02/28/05
Posts: 759
Loc: The Symphony of Lights......
Re: FAI&#8224;H in JeSuS ChriS&#8224;.... Just the Beggining of Seeing the Beauty of This World... [Re: Delusion_of_Self]
    #3950032 - 03/21/05 04:44 PM (19 years, 2 days ago)

Egghead said:
Quote:

Our views or perceptions of any event or our existence in this world mold our attitudes, behaviours and experiences.



.
Perhaps it is not experiences that mold our attitudes as much as it molds our beliefs of one's personal reality....    The attitude one has at any given point in time is all based on one's choice....  Certain causes may effect our actions, but the attitude of the actions are still fully within one's choice....  Otherwise we would all have the exact same attitude after we all went thru a certain common event....(?)    :smile:  :heart:


:sun:


--------------------
Uni-VersALL      MasterPeace
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Anonymous

Re: FAI&#8224;H in JeSuS ChriS&#8224;.... Just the Beggining of Seeing the Beauty of This World... [Re: egghead1]
    #3950054 - 03/21/05 04:46 PM (19 years, 2 days ago)

Quote:

It's hard to help someone if you can't help yourself.

Kottonmouth the problem is that you assume too much.




when i said i felt negativity from you, i did.  because you were. denial...is a bitch. :tongue:

thank you for your words, egghead, they are appreciated. :heart:

i will type up my experience as best i can, eMotion...i gotta eat, and do some dishes...then i will be back and explain why i "believe" what ive preached here.  im glad you asked, atleast somebody is interested in why i feel the way i feel :heart:

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Anonymous

Re: FAI&#8224;H in JeSuS ChriS&#8224;.... Just the Beggining of Seeing the Beauty of This World... [Re: ]
    #3951098 - 03/21/05 09:13 PM (19 years, 1 day ago)

all right, im sharing this because eMotion asked me to explain why i have come to believe what i believe. which is a good idea, because to just up and preach with no basis is pretty retarded.

All right, i am very spiritual and look to god for everything.  When i grew shrooms, i grew a lot and i made my money off of them cuz it was easy money and i hate mcdonalds.  I always would pray for signs as to whether it was safe to do a grow or not. I'd get dreams, but i think i was a bit naive and wanted to see what i wanted to see.  i always took the dreams as 'oh hell yeah, thats a yes for sure' cuz my dumbass wanted money and thought that the shrooms were sacred and would help people find what ive found, one way or another. and of course, god would protect me from being busted.

First, let me say that i get what are called vibrations(beginning of an out of body experience) in the middle of praying sometimes, because i have them so much that it is second nature for me.  i was asking for my sign and instead of a typical dream that i could take how i wanted to, i got vibrations and floated up out my body and greeted by a guide.  The guide wasnt too happy, she was still loving, just very disappointed.  Of course i was geeked as hell, "IS IT ALL GOOD!? IS IT COOL NOW!???"  Shes like, ":smirk: listen, Mikey, its not ok"

Im still stoked as hell to be in the presence of such an awesome being and ask right away when it would be safe.  She said "never again."  I asked why!?  She told me straight up, "shrooms are not sacred like you believe, they hurt your soul and hold you back from progressing spiritually like you're trying to do"  I dont understand...man they mean so much to me and i have understood a lot on these shrooms, i dont understand...  she continued to tell me, "That was in you the whole time, you already had all of that knowledge within you to reflect on even without the shrooms, you just like the feeling they provide and would rather think about this stuff on shrooms instead, your being lazy"

:shocked: the way she laid it down, i knew damn well i was busted. i was guilty as fuck, i couldnt deny that shit. I coulda tried to front, but i knew she woulda just been done with my ass and let me get busted if i did do a grow and not listen.  So i said, yy..yeah..you got a good point there..i could have just thought of all of that without the shrooms.  She smiled :smile: with the smile came a lot of love to me.  she said to me "the feeling you feel from the shrooms is not even real love coming from your soul as you think, that is your ego.  same thing with ecstasy, that is your ego, mikey, you're only so happy because you feel good about yourself, it is not true peace." 

This of course i didnt get for shit, i always thought that they were simply catalysts that unlock whatever the hell in our bodies to make it function in a manner that would allow us to connect to our souls with no effort/meditating, but if abused, it would lose its magic. So i told her i didnt understand.  she smiled, more love came to me(but was still sad, cuz the shrooms meant so much to me, i thought i was doing a good thing and it was all good)  When you(i knew that when she said "you" it meant all of us, not just me personally, it meant man as a whole) put drugs in your body, it dims your light and makes your ego stronger, the feelings are not coming from your soul, it is from your egos.  If you dont want to listen to me we can end this right now(hahah, i was doubting :blush: , i quickly stopped and said no, im sorry, i believe you, im just in denial, she smiles and continues)  You feel so good about yourself, becuase you are totally consumed by your egos, even though you feel it is not being selfish, it is. Love is not like that and can not be felt while intoxicated.

She continued on to say that by selling shrooms i contributed to the hurting of my friends and people i didnt even knows souls, and doing a complete 180 of what i actually was setting out to do.  She said that the only way to truly feel the love within is by loving myself and if i want to seek answers i need to meditate more and not be so lazy.  I knew then that i could be so much farther if i didnt ever even use drugs, even moderate use was hurting my soul, as all they did was bring up more unnecessary questions(ego masterbation) that made me more lost as i contemplated them.  everything is so fucking simple and the drugs made it harder(though in my mind it was making it clearer, but no. i became aware of the bullshit lies i lived.) She told me nobody even uses them for spiritual reasons, they just say they do so they can numb their pain and see stuff(so they can get them from me, i told fuckers they better let it be known they are sacred and not to be abused..they just thought i was crazy from shrooming, heh, oh well fuck em! i guess i was! :smirk: )

so, after a conversation with my guide, i realized they do get to our souls, hurt them, and do absolutely no good, even if we're trying to get the best out of them and be responsible, it just is not possible, and you know what that fucking pisses me off man, i really had faith in them. but they simply feed the ego and nothing more. Anything that you experience on shrooms, was already in your belief system to have taken a look at, you just were too lazy or doubtful in yourself to do it without an ego boost(drugs do this, as i realized). Its so fucking clear to me now, that i am still ashamed right now that i didnt know better. i mean yeah forgive myself, but it is like wtf was i thinking. i thought more about money anyways, but i still had heart damnit. i was trying. now i have to work for all my money even if it is hard(but that is what life is all about, testing your love, can you be happy working a bitch ass job, after making mad cheese so easily?  man fuck, i know its gonna be hard on me, but ill fucking do it.)

that is why i think/know what i think/know, because my own guide told me what was up, and that is their job, to help us grow. If shrooms were divine then they would not cause us bad trips, they would divinely and simply only show us truth, but that is bullshit.  if it was so easy to just get answers where is the challenge?

oh yeah, shit, i almost forgot to add that she told me i wasnt growing at all, and actually was held down so much that i didnt progress but actually only grew more angry on the inside.(cuz of drugs being ego feul.) she didnt only stress shrooms hurting our souls, but all drugs, especially my weed habit since i was actually abusing the weed especially, just look at my fucking name, i was a stoner(still am dealing with addiction..but i will not smoke no matter how bad i will fiend sometimes, i know it will bring me down, i guess i always knew it brought me down, but didnt care, was addicted). i always hid from the world with my weed. and it made me think that i was being nice, when really i was being a fucking dickhead, now i gotta climb out of that selfish shithole and face reality.  i feel way happier now, but my enlargened ego(thanks to drugs!!!) is still here to deal with and tame down. it aint really THAT bad, its as hard as i make it, cuz im well aware when im being a dick, but i wil be like FUCK OFFF!!!! i dont even care, when i feel negativity i wanna blow whoever the sender is's fucking grill striaght out the back of their neck.  I guess that is another thing i felt weed would help me deal with, my anger.  but it just kept it bottled up inside to deal with later...that wasnt truly accepting it and dealing with it, but hiding from it.  I mean i coulda let shit slide without the weed, but i chose to smoke anyway.




what more do i need to say, if you actaully read this, thank u. thats why. do i expect ya'll to take this to heart like i did? pfft, no. in no fucking way could it impact you like the actual experience did.

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InvisibleeMotionALLmotion
DivineeMotive....

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Posts: 759
Loc: The Symphony of Lights......
Life is FUCKING GRAND....! Seeing the Beauty of This World.... [Re: ]
    #3951604 - 03/21/05 10:38 PM (19 years, 1 day ago)

That was a good read, thank you for taking the time to write it all out....!    :heart:

I have never met a spirit guide in any of my spiritual experiences yet(and I think you were sober for that experience even), nor have I really had any "real hallucinations" as described by others on any  psychedelic experiences....    What I have had were what I call "modified hallucinations" ie. things getting wavey like moving water, or deeper colors, etc....    Maybe some day I will get a spirit guide to present themself to me, I will have a TON of questions....!!!  :smile:  :heart:

Now one thing that kinda~ conflicts with what your guide said was how shroomz~ feed your ego.....  I have never heard of a psychedelic acting in this way on someones ego, but I do know that ANYTHING is possible, and everybody IS different, so I believe what you say to be very true to you if that is what you experienced and believe.... 

I have heard many people talk about karma when dealing with shroomz or LSD....  Like if you sell either of these to make money or profits, the karma turns bad because these things are "supposed" to be a gift for all, and not for a profit type of thing....  And I am not stating any of this as fact because it is just stuff I have read here about this type of thing....  But with seeing this type of thing almost consistantly, a possibility is running thru my head that I am going to just say as a possible interpretation based on the karma factor that I just stated.... 

If it really is a "bad karma" thing for someone to make a profit off of selling delics, and you stated that you had a strong ego, maybe it was a strong warning for you....(?)  What if your guide was saying to you a "worse case scenario" so that you would fear ever trying to sell them again, as perhaps it was seen by your guide to be "getting out of hand" in a way to cause danger to you in your life....?  If your guide would have simply said, "you should be careful", perhaps you would have kept doing it and gotten busted or something....    Maybe your guide said what she needed to say to keep you out of harms way....(?)    And maybe later on down the line she will let you know why she said what she said....(?)    The only reason I say that is because up until that point in time of your use/selling, your guide had been pointing to signs as to indicate that things were ok for you in your actions....    From my outside obsevational perspective, it just seems like she would have started off with giving advise of not selling or doing right off the get go if it was a soul injuring thing....  I dunno~....

Now, I am not saying that I am right on any of this, I am just trying to read into it as you have presented it.... 

Me personally, I have never ever sold anything, just because that is not my way....  And in my past, I have used such things as tools to open up very big doors in my creative perception as well as recently my spiritual understandings/experiences....  ALL of my use of everything has dropped significantly since I realized/discovered my beliefs, as I have a "Love Light SHINE Buzz" that pretty much is effecting me 24/7, and all I have to do is smile to reach this state if it is not already "active"....    Sometimes it feels like there is static electricity coming right out of my ears....!    :eek:  :grin:  I still do enjoy a good influenced buzz now and again, but now the buzz I get is much different from anything I choose to partake in from my past experiences....  Now, it is a lot more "pure" and "lovely", and I don't know how else to really describe it in words....    I truly is like a combination buzz of sorts, one is natural from life, and the substance just adds to that with a multiplying effect....!      Perhaps I used them as a crutch before in my life, with less respect for myself....?    I dunno~....    If someone told me I had to stop just because they "wanted me to" with the little use I actually do now, I would prolly~ not give what was being said a second thought, because I believe in my heart that there is nothing wrong with good safe use for positive intentions of using anything like this with much respect, and "responsibly" as a tool.... 

But in your life's situation, maybe this was not the case....(?)  If I was told by a spirit guide to stop, I would prolly~ never question it, and have no problems stopping....  But until then, I think my occasional use serves a very good purpose in my life, and will most likely use them as tools as I have in the past - just less frequently, by choice....  I hope my reasoning for my use makes sense to you....  Everybody is different, I do hope you can respect that....  :smile:  :heart:

Being high on life is fucking GRAND....!!!  :grin:


:sun:


--------------------
Uni-VersALL      MasterPeace
eMotive  :sun: Divinity NowThere Infinity :sun:  eMelody

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Anonymous

Re: Life is FUCKING GRAND....! Seeing the Beauty of This World.... [Re: eMotionALLmotion]
    #3953176 - 03/22/05 11:30 AM (19 years, 1 day ago)

Quote:

and I think you were sober for that experience even),




yes. i wanted to make sure my mind was clear. as for all the bargaining, no. she said what she said becuase it was true, it wasnt just something that applied to me, it was a lesson on drugs in general to say that they are no good for the soul. that was the point i needed to realize. I didnt think it was a problem either, i didnt shroom that often at all, i didnt want to shroom that often, my desire went down big time after my shroom experiences.

if you want to talk to your guides, pray to. and DONT DOUBT. if you doubt, they say fuck ya then. you cant doubt dude, thats another reason i dont ask questions, i know they wouldnt lie to me or beat around the bush(that would be selfish, they arent like that.) Just pray to see them...of course yeah, be sober for atleast a whole day. the people in dreams with lots of love in their eyes, is them. or the ones that you know were there, someone awesome, but you cant remember who or couldnt see their faces...thats guides.

but yes, i respect everyones use of psychedelics. its just that with what i know now, i know they are harmful, not good at all.(like i said, abuse, or moderated use that you feel is responsible, it does not matter, they get to your soul and are harmful regardless of if you have a positive uplifting experience or not. it gets to your soul and hurts it. no bargaining there.) i see many souls here reaching for the light, and i just wish they could feel and see what i did, so they could start truly ascending with no being held back.

but yeah, thanks for reading, that still aint SHIT to say what i experienced, cuz all u can do is read the words and imagine, you aint got the feelings and realizations that would hit me to go with it. so its so fucking CHEAP in comparison that i want to delete it man.

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Anonymous

Re: Life is FUCKING GRAND....! Seeing the Beauty of This World.... [Re: ]
    #3953284 - 03/22/05 11:56 AM (19 years, 1 day ago)

BUT, i know it is also part of your learning experience, and that is awesome...i mean could i even have realized what i realized now if i didnt do my share of drugs? nope. i just dont want anyone to see that they could have grown so much more, but did not because of their ignorance, and then feel the shame i felt.(thinking some drugs were all good and helped ya grow, like i did)

the shame wasnt mainly from selling, the selling is irrelevant. people have free will to buy and consume what they want to, but i felt shame from knowing i had contributed to a massive production of them and god knows who the fuck got their hands on them and hurt their souls with MY fucking shrooms. god damnit. The shame was mainly from how i would preach that they were sacred and helped you find god. "a good drug". Even tho they didnt listen, there were some close friends that did, and looked up to me. i mean the truth was there in me, but i was blind/ignorant to some shit. im just glad it got cleared up at the time it did. the only reason i got to talk to her was because i asked.

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OfflineJCoke
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Re: Life is FUCKING GRAND....! Seeing the Beauty of This World.... [Re: ]
    #3954215 - 03/22/05 03:07 PM (19 years, 1 day ago)

i dont do drugs for "spiritual" reason, in fact i don't think i ever did them for that, always been recreational, at most i might have some theoraputic experiance (namely on salvia and dex) but that's always a bonus if it does happen, to me drugs are like dreams, i don't think much more of them than that, if it was fun, great, if it was terrofying, also great (go figure i've always liked getting scared, horror movies, thrill rides etc etc), and if just one dream out of a million i realise there's something i'm holding back from someone, i sure as fuck fix the situation in real life..

kottonmouth, are you talking about all drugs? or just when looking to grow spiritually from mdrugs??


--------------------
hello, your name is life on earth
------------------------------------

"I traveled a long way seeking God, but when I finally gave up and turned back, there He was, within me! O Lalli! Now why do you wander like a beggar? Make some effort, and He will grant you a vision of Himself in the form of bliss in your heart." -the saint of the Kashmir Shaivism tradition: Lalli.

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Anonymous

Re: Life is FUCKING GRAND....! Seeing the Beauty of This World.... [Re: JCoke]
    #3955062 - 03/22/05 05:34 PM (19 years, 1 day ago)

all drugs, even sadly my beloved marijuana buds have to go if i want to ascend.

to all: i mean go ahead and use drugs all you want ya know? you just wont ascened like you came here to do. you are here to grow in spirit by controlling your ego. and all any drugs do are feul the ego. eventualy you get so fucking caught up in it that you dont even realize how lost you are(of course, you think its all good, you think your a good person, but within, you could be far far fucking more better and advanced/aware), til its too late to grow(death)

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InvisibleeMotionALLmotion
DivineeMotive....

Registered: 02/28/05
Posts: 759
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Re: Life is FUCKING GRAND....! Seeing the Beauty of This World.... [Re: ]
    #3955281 - 03/22/05 06:12 PM (19 years, 1 day ago)

Quote:

Kottonmouth said:
all drugs, even sadly my beloved marijuana buds have to go if i want to ascend. 
.
to all: i mean go ahead and use drugs all you want ya know? you just wont ascened like you came here to do. you are here to grow in spirit by controlling your ego. and all any drugs do are feul the ego.  eventualy you get so fucking caught up in it that you dont even realize how lost you are(of course, you think its all good, you think your a good person, but within, you could be far far fucking more better and advanced/aware), til its too late to grow(death)



.
.
.
OK, lets just make a hypothetical situation based on what you have just said....  :grin:

For this situation, YOU have grown up all of your life with an acclaimed Chemistry Scientist as a father, and he did all of his funded research at home, with YOU....  Just for fun, his name will be Dr. Alex Shuldin(making you Kotton Shuldin)....  :grin:  All the while as you were growing up, and secret to anyone else in the world, your father was creating ALL KINDS of different mind exploring/expanding psychoative drugs....  And as he was creating them up, your father used YOU as the test subject 3 times a week for ALL of your life to see how you would be affected by these newly created chemical concoctions....  Now this was never a choice for you as to do the actual drugs, it was just a normal "conditioned" part of your life that you knew, and just never questioned it - you knew no other way....  And why would you question it, after all, it was your parent of flesh and blood that was giving these drugs to you, so it couldn't be wrong....  Right....?  Either way, YOU have done no wrong....    It was not a choice for you to not take them....
.
During your lifetime, you had also found your own solid beliefs in spirituality, BUT, never had contact from your choice of GOD(s), nor had any kind of spirit guide to give you information....    So, now you are 46, and still living at home with Dr. Psychoactive Vitamin Supplements, and you die after falling down the stairs in a natural way....  You simply tripped while sober and fell....  (:lol:
.
Where does your soul go.....?


:sun:


--------------------
Uni-VersALL      MasterPeace
eMotive  :sun: Divinity NowThere Infinity :sun:  eMelody

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Invisibleredgreenvines
irregular verb
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Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 38,007
very cool self portrait [Re: egghead1]
    #3955304 - 03/22/05 06:17 PM (19 years, 1 day ago)

Quote:

egghead1 said:

:egg: :egg: :egg: :egg: :egg: :egg: :egg: :egg: :egg: :egg:




smart!
I knew that!

anyway. Kottonmouth, I see the predinkament.

mushrooms are good medicine, but nobody is pushing them.
the profound effect is useful if a person goes for it.

bud is a different kind of medicine
it can be turned visionary but the energy involved is immense.

going dry from bud is useful when you are on a quest and have been using it (the change is excellent);
not all medicines are the same.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:

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InvisibleeMotionALLmotion
DivineeMotive....

Registered: 02/28/05
Posts: 759
Loc: The Symphony of Lights......
Re: very cool self portrait [Re: redgreenvines]
    #3955338 - 03/22/05 06:25 PM (19 years, 1 day ago)

In actuallity, in my past I have found weed to ALMOST do what all of the negative hype suggests....  It clears my mind of thought....  Then the creativity can flow like a mo~ fo~....!  :grin: 
.
Good medicine/tool for certain uses if you ask me....  :yesnod:
.
Perhaps responsibility of one's use/abuse is what really needs to be questioned by the rule makers....    :shrug:


:sun:


--------------------
Uni-VersALL      MasterPeace
eMotive  :sun: Divinity NowThere Infinity :sun:  eMelody

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Invisibleredgreenvines
irregular verb
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Registered: 04/08/04
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Re: very cool self portrait [Re: eMotionALLmotion]
    #3955466 - 03/22/05 07:00 PM (19 years, 1 day ago)

respect makes it better
I used to be a wiz at math using bud shamanically,
but my youth was not quite normal.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:

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Anonymous

Re: very cool self portrait [Re: redgreenvines]
    #3955887 - 03/22/05 08:23 PM (19 years, 23 hours ago)

i'll play along with your little mind games eMotion...

your soul goes wherever the fuck you choose to.  just becuase you use drugs does not change anything, other than you will see "oh wow, i used drugs, i cheated myself out of some serious grow time"...you either A) forgive yourself, which will be easy if you are like you guys and truly didnt know any better.  or B) you did know better(or even if you didnt, depending on how hard you are on yourself) you will run out of shame for fucking off during life into the darkness, which is void of light, until you can come to forgive yourself.

that is the answer to your petty post. :rolleyes:

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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: very cool self portrait [Re: ]
    #3956015 - 03/22/05 08:41 PM (19 years, 23 hours ago)

What a self righteous load of shit you carry around. You are merely a spoiled, ignorant rube to exhibit such a poor understanding of moral development.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Anonymous

Re: very cool self portrait [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3956135 - 03/22/05 08:55 PM (19 years, 23 hours ago)

well im fucking pissed man, the dude dissed my ass, what would you do?

atleast i answered his question, god.

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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: very cool self portrait [Re: ]
    #3956189 - 03/22/05 09:01 PM (19 years, 23 hours ago)

Learn to not be so rude or judgmental. No one will take you seriously if you don't practice restraint... even if your ideas are good, no one will hear. Some of your stuff is good, but that behavior turns people off.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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InvisibleeMotionALLmotion
DivineeMotive....

Registered: 02/28/05
Posts: 759
Loc: The Symphony of Lights......
Re: very cool self portrait [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3956329 - 03/22/05 09:22 PM (19 years, 22 hours ago)

:shocked:  :rolleyes:  :smirk:

All of my posts are petty, but I was asking a serious question of you, and your harshness was not really expected as such....    Live and learn the ways of others I guess....    I will pray to GOD for you....  You seemingly have much negativity built up inside you towards something, as you have been spreading here in S & P since you got here yesterday onto a lot of people....  Almost comparable to a bull in a China shop....  :lol:  I send you my love in hopes that it can calm down some of your internal turmoil some....  I do not wish to anger you any more, so I will ask no more questions of you....  I do wonder why other's words seem to provoke such hostility within you towards others, but that is not a petty question I wish to have answered....(?)    :heart:


:sun:


--------------------
Uni-VersALL      MasterPeace
eMotive  :sun: Divinity NowThere Infinity :sun:  eMelody

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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: very cool self portrait [Re: eMotionALLmotion]
    #3956540 - 03/22/05 09:38 PM (19 years, 22 hours ago)

Why is that addressed to me? I have not critiqued your posts at all...let alone criticised you.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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InvisibleeMotionALLmotion
DivineeMotive....

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Re: very cool self portrait [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3956651 - 03/22/05 09:49 PM (19 years, 22 hours ago)

Sorry HueHue, that wasn't aimed at your response at all....  :heart:


:sun:

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OfflineCyber
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Re: Life is FUCKING GRAND....! Seeing the Beauty of This World.... [Re: ]
    #3956653 - 03/22/05 09:49 PM (19 years, 22 hours ago)

Quote:

Kottonmouth said:
all drugs, even sadly my beloved marijuana buds have to go if i want to ascend.

to all: i mean go ahead and use drugs all you want ya know? you just wont ascened like you came here to do. you are here to grow in spirit by controlling your ego. and all any drugs do are feul the ego. eventualy you get so fucking caught up in it that you dont even realize how lost you are(of course, you think its all good, you think your a good person, but within, you could be far far fucking more better and advanced/aware), til its too late to grow(death)




Kottonmouth, I would tend to disagree with your statements. People I have tripped with have had to deal with things that they normally would not deal with. By dealing with them, and working through them, they grow and can move beyond them.

For example, during one trip the person I was tripping with was having a hard time. I was there for her, to help and listen to her. The trip brought back memories and feelings that she was having a hard time coming to terms with. On this trip she was forced (by the mushrooms, god, or what ever you want to call the force) to deal with the feelings she had not dealt with after her abortion (some 9 years earlier). Through the trip she worked through her feelings and came to terms with them. All in all it was a growing and learning experience.

I am not saying it is the best solution for everyone. I am not saying that mushrooms will help everyone. Most of the people I know want to trip for fun and never take the opportunity to gain something meaningful from it. But there are some of us who have realized that this can be a big blessing and it can help some people learn to deal with the choices they have made in there life.

If it is not right for you or you feel it is holding you back. Then by all means set them aside and move forward in your life. But, to say that they hold everyone who uses them back (from spiritual growth, or from ascending) is just wrong.

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Offlinepsilocyben
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Re: Life is FUCKING GRAND....! Seeing the Beauty of This World.... [Re: Cyber]
    #3956784 - 03/22/05 09:59 PM (19 years, 22 hours ago)

you know, cyber-
i never thought of it that way, but you do have a point:
if there is some issue that i can hide from myself and my conscience, it will come to the surface when i trip. this forces me to deal with it, (hopefully constructively, in the form of resolution.)


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Invisibleniteowl
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Re: Life is FUCKING GRAND....! Seeing the Beauty of This World.... [Re: Cyber]
    #3956937 - 03/22/05 10:18 PM (19 years, 21 hours ago)

Quote:

Cyber said:
Kottonmouth, I would tend to disagree with your statements. People I have tripped with have had to deal with things that they normally would not deal with. By dealing with them, and working through them, they grow and can move beyond them.






I have to agree.

Kotton...maybe you had got all you needed from the mush....and were just using them for recreation and needed to let it go.

I have gotten to this point with weed. I have used it to help me thru some tuff times, but now I dont really need it any more, and need to quit.

I only recently started using shrooms and can see great potential in their helping me to get over some other spiritual issues.

I tried shrooms the first time almost 2 years ago, and have only used them about 4-5 times.

I have a 4-5gram dose that I am waiting to use. Im just waiting for the right time. first or second week of April is what Im looking at.


Everyone is different. What workes for you may not work for everyone else. (kinda like religion )


--------------------
Live for the moment you are in now
Don't be bogged down by your past
Don't be afraid of what lies in your future

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Anonymous

Re: Life is FUCKING GRAND....! Seeing the Beauty of This World.... [Re: niteowl]
    #3957063 - 03/22/05 10:41 PM (19 years, 21 hours ago)

i cant handle the doubt...im done here. i respect and understand your beliefs, as they were once mine.  but you have not seen what ive seen nor felt what i felt. i thought i made it clear that it was not personal, it was a message for all as well. but it will go unheard, and that is cool with me, live and learn, you know? shit, im outti though, i aint coming back to S&P anymore, i will most likely come here to learn how to grow edibles and bounce.

i truly am sorry for any drama i sparked, but its like i tried to explain, when i get negativity, i throw that shit back, i mean, sure i know better, sure i know thats goign against the love, but you know what? im trying, whether you see that or not i am fucking trying, i swear, but its so hard ya'll, with the negativity i get, the fakeness i see.  i realize YOU"RE all trying too!!! so fuck yeah, shine on. just shine as you can shine, and i will shine.  but not here. its not cuz im a lil coward ass bitch, its just that i feel too much, im too damned sensitive and i have nobody to relate to here, NOBODY.

love and light, my love is real :heart: i just have a lot of anger i need to tend to, its easy to set me off, as you see. i HAVE learned to keep my hands to myself atleast, so if we were face to face its not like i would blow your grill out right then and there, i have learned to keep my composure in that department atleast, now to work on the mouth. i'll drop another line in the tube lady thread, if i even got any responses, and then check some other threads to see if i got any responses, but after that you wont see me again. i will just be here to check out gourmets, if anybody wants to use my account for supporter, let me know and i'll upload extra pics if you dont got the bandwith, otherwise, peace ya'll. :heart:

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OfflineDelusion_of_Self
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Re: Life is FUCKING GRAND....! Seeing the Beauty of This World.... [Re: ]
    #3957854 - 03/23/05 02:37 AM (19 years, 17 hours ago)

?A knife in the hands of a maniac can become a lethal weapon. A knife in hands of a doctor can save lives.? There is no wrong or right in the knife. The wrong or right is in you.

Kottonmouth, you might have had a bad experience with mushrooms. You might have learned that they do no good, but it was through your bad actions that you had to learn what you did. You and only you are responsible for your actions.

I see good in you, believe me. I am grateful for you warning not only me but everyone in this site. But please, you need to change your attitude. There is more to learn from your experience than what you have. Don't blame the shrooms or anything else, for they are not responsible for your actions. Your actions are the means by which you either enrich your life or belittle it.


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"It is never a question of belief; the only scientific attitude one can take on any subject is whether it is true. The law of gravitation worked as efficiently before Newton as after him. The cosmos would be fairly chaotic if its laws could not operate without the sanction of human belief." -- Sri Yukteswar

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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Life is FUCKING GRAND....! Seeing the Beauty of This World.... [Re: Delusion_of_Self]
    #3957924 - 03/23/05 03:35 AM (19 years, 16 hours ago)

each case is specific,
I could certainly see a drug free kottonmouth as a good move.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:

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Offlineegghead1
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Re: Life is FUCKING GRAND....! Seeing the Beauty of This World.... [Re: redgreenvines]
    #3957930 - 03/23/05 03:41 AM (19 years, 16 hours ago)

Yes red, i agree :thumbup: :heart:


--------------------
All you need is Love! Really thats it! Infinite Unconditional Love! Just develop that and all else will fall into place perfectly!

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OfflineDelusion_of_Self
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Registered: 03/14/05
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Re: Life is FUCKING GRAND....! Seeing the Beauty of This World.... [Re: redgreenvines]
    #3957948 - 03/23/05 04:02 AM (19 years, 16 hours ago)

I don't see where my comment contradicts yours.


--------------------
"It is never a question of belief; the only scientific attitude one can take on any subject is whether it is true. The law of gravitation worked as efficiently before Newton as after him. The cosmos would be fairly chaotic if its laws could not operate without the sanction of human belief." -- Sri Yukteswar

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OfflineDelusion_of_Self
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Registered: 03/14/05
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Re: Life is FUCKING GRAND....! Seeing the Beauty of This World.... [Re: Delusion_of_Self]
    #3957953 - 03/23/05 04:06 AM (19 years, 16 hours ago)

I didn't mean he should change his attitude toward mushrooms in the sense that he should eat them. All I'm saying is it is not shrooms, drugs or anything that stands in your way...it is you.

EDIT: misspelling


--------------------
"It is never a question of belief; the only scientific attitude one can take on any subject is whether it is true. The law of gravitation worked as efficiently before Newton as after him. The cosmos would be fairly chaotic if its laws could not operate without the sanction of human belief." -- Sri Yukteswar

Edited by Delusion_of_Self (03/23/05 05:26 AM)

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OfflineDelusion_of_Self
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Re: Life is FUCKING GRAND....! Seeing the Beauty of This World.... [Re: Delusion_of_Self]
    #3957958 - 03/23/05 04:10 AM (19 years, 16 hours ago)

Each case is specific as a the case of a maniac, the case of a doctor. There intentions differ and so does the outcome. On kills, one saves. Everything is being done with the same thing...the knife. It is nothing more than a tool, the means to achieve a goal.


--------------------
"It is never a question of belief; the only scientific attitude one can take on any subject is whether it is true. The law of gravitation worked as efficiently before Newton as after him. The cosmos would be fairly chaotic if its laws could not operate without the sanction of human belief." -- Sri Yukteswar

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