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Invisibletracing
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Registered: 08/28/04
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consciously making something into a delusion?
    #3300708 - 10/31/04 11:29 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Could a perfectly (mentally) healthy person self-induce a delusion without drugs?. This is sort of a spin-off from this thread. You would at first have to know its a fantasy, but then later somehow forget its one to begin with.

My memory on this is fuzzy at best but I recall seeing a show years ago about how prisoners where tortured into believing false beliefs, with enough pain one can supposedly make another believe something that they initialy didnt believe believe. This is the extreme side of it but it just goes to show (if I remember correctly) that consciousness can be forced into false beliefs without needing what is comonly known as proof.

Thoughts?.


Edited by tracing (10/31/04 01:18 PM)


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OfflineGomp
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Re: consciously making something into a delusion? [Re: tracing]
    #3300760 - 10/31/04 11:57 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

is that not called dreaming? :P
so yes?


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OfflineTodcasil
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Re: consciously making something into a delusion? [Re: Gomp]
    #3300777 - 10/31/04 12:02 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

totally feasable imo.

but then doesnt that make them mentally unhealthy by default now?


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Women look at themselves and they seem utterly human, when looking at men they see proud
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OfflineDroz
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Re: consciously making something into a delusion? [Re: Todcasil]
    #3300804 - 10/31/04 12:12 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

After I turned 19 I ended up having a lot of my thoughts turn into delusions. I'm not quite sure what is responsible for all my delusions, but I do know that I come out of it on occasion only to fall back into a deeper trance.

My thoughts start to spin out of control where I'll start to think thousands of years ahead, my visions become so indepth I start to lose myself. Then It seems to keep me there deep in thought where I sort of sit still for long periods of time.

Maybe this is what you get from meditation but when it happens to me I am usually standing up and it occurs frequently. Plenty of mind control tactics have been used on me. To force me to believe certain things and to force me to do certain things. Sorta like sitting in church for a while. Yet I'm in a place where I don't want to be.

Peace,
Droz


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OfflineTodcasil
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Re: consciously making something into a delusion? [Re: Droz]
    #3300822 - 10/31/04 12:19 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

mind control tactics are used on everyone. there called parenting tactics. social morays (like the eel!) and cultural parameters. you can realize that everyone wants you think a certain way, and be ok with that. you can still think how ever you want.

is this on topic?


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Men look at themselves and they see flawed humans, we look at women and we see perfect
GODDESSES
Women look at themselves and they seem utterly human, when looking at men they see proud
GODS.


~Casil



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OfflineDroz
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Re: consciously making something into a delusion? [Re: Todcasil]
    #3300829 - 10/31/04 12:23 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I think I spend too much time thinking about what it actual does to myself only to become delusional from it.


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Invisibletracing
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Re: consciously making something into a delusion? [Re: Todcasil]
    #3300872 - 10/31/04 01:38 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

but then doesnt that make them mentally unhealthy by default now?

That question was inevitable, in this case, lets just say someone is doing an experiment in the name of science.

Gomp I was thinking of the waking life, seems more important than the dreaming one in practicle terms :smile:.


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OfflineGomp
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Re: consciously making something into a delusion? [Re: tracing]
    #3300948 - 10/31/04 02:43 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

""I was thinking of the waking life""

well, I was also thinking of the waking life...

subnote: look at that word blame. It's just a coincidence that the last two letters spell the word me? :P


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Offlinedeff
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Re: consciously making something into a delusion? [Re: Gomp]
    #3301524 - 10/31/04 05:50 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Yeah :smile:

Look at the word horrible, coincidence that it has the word 'rib' in it? :cool:


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OfflineGomp
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Re: consciously making something into a delusion? [Re: deff]
    #3301579 - 10/31/04 06:05 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

but what would that say?

blame, the only person you can blame is your self, me? :P


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Offlinegnrm23
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Re: consciously making something into a delusion? [Re: Gomp]
    #3301908 - 10/31/04 07:49 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

yesyesyes...


the subgenius church calls this process:

pulling the wool over your OWN eyes...






(or as heinlein said:
man is not a rational animal.
man is a rationalizing animal)



ymmv...


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Invisibletracing
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Re: consciously making something into a delusion? [Re: gnrm23]
    #3302373 - 10/31/04 09:53 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

alright, word games are fine and dandy, shall we get back to the subject at hand? :yesnod: :yesnod: :yesnod:


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OfflineGomp
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Re: consciously making something into a delusion? [Re: tracing]
    #3302410 - 10/31/04 10:04 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

dreaming ? :P hihi


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: consciously making something into a delusion? [Re: Gomp]
    #3303640 - 11/01/04 05:51 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

when we put a scene together, using congecture, explaining what is behind it based upon uncertain foundations such as:
1) other people's thoughts (which we can't know)
and 2) other people's motives (which are really hard to know)
or 3) bad science (because we don't know at all or paid attention badly).

then we are operating in a delusion. and we do it all the time and recover, correcting ourselves. it is risk we take, and it depends on being headstrong about our wrong ideas to take these risks (the main delusion is to assume we are right about our guesses).

when it is extreme it becomes paranoia, or any number of unhealthy pursuits.

dreams are something else completely although both are made of mind more than of things happenning in consensual reality.


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