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InvisibleTheDude
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Reflections on Consciousness
    #1668654 - 06/28/03 05:02 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

So I ate some of my friends the other night and got to thinking...

Consciousness is introverted by nature in the sense that it draws attention to the self. Over time, we have faced various problems and inconveniences and managed to solve everything that got in our way, making our lives that much easier. However, this self-awareness is what allowed us to see all these "problems" in the first place. I feel like right now in human history, we are at a point where technology is used to solve every problem, even ones that require human compassion and understanding (look at U.S. World relations...).

What I'm getting at is, technology seems to fucking up things large scale, while it's solving lots of problems on a small scale (tooth decay and cell phones, shit like that). Well what if technology gets to a point where it solves all of our small scale inconveniences. We would live in a world where there were no problems and everything could be solved by applying some cream or taking a pill.

Ultimately though, what does that leave us with? Our minds, our consciousness. With no problems, we would be able to focus our mental powers. Do you think technology will allow us to get to such a state of physical perfection, or do you think the quest is futile in that we are always inventing more problems that require attention with?

The more I began to think about it, technology seems useless in the long run and I feel that we are neglecting the gift of consciousness that we have right now. I believe that psychedelic drugs (and meditation) are tools used to expand our consciousness. It just seems that right now we're too distracted by all the technology around us and we're becoming more and more concerned with physical objects as a result. The demonizing of drugs is a sign of our ignorance. A friend pointed out that I spend a lot of money on herb, and that I don't buy other items. While it seems foolish to him, I'd rather expand my creative mind than own a $100 shirt.

I think things could eventually get so bad that we destroy the earth. People get too worked up and allow their emotions to take over in the name of self determination. We're closing down instead of opening up. I hope one generation of the human race turns things around but right now I think we're spinning out of control. Our quest to make life simple has only made it infinitely more complicated. Should we revert to a lifestyle where only our most basic needs are provided for, or will we eventually be forced back to that era by corrupted technology?

thanks for reading my stoned ramblings compiled from my thoughts that eve


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"this lebowski he called himself 'the dude'. now, 'dude', that's a name no one would self-apply where i come from but there was a lot about the dude that didn't make sense to me...."--the Stranger


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Offlinesomebodyelse
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Re: Reflections on Consciousness [Re: TheDude]
    #1668690 - 06/28/03 05:22 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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InvisiblePsilosKube
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Re: Reflections on Consciousness [Re: TheDude]
    #1668728 - 06/28/03 05:42 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Technology is what allows us to fight off sickness and plagues.

Technology heals tragically wounded people and extends the human life span.

Technology is what allowed you and many others to educate themselves on many things through the internet

Technology allows one person to travel to the other side of the planet in a few days.

Technology has helped farmers raise food for hundreds of years

Technology allows us to populate otherwise uninhabitable areas of the earth.


What will happen when global overpopulation becomes a problem (Assuming we make it that far)? Will we all huddle together enmass or look to technology to reach beyond our planet or colonize portions of it that are not yet utilized?

You do realize that technology is what allows you to cook your food and light your home right?

Is that pipe you are using to smoke your herb a piece of technology?

Is this closing down instead of opening up? Does that choice rest on the individual or is it determined by the technology available?

Would you seriously want to revert to a lifestyle where only your most basic needs are provided for?

Your doing the same thing with technology that people do with drugs. You're blaiming our problems on our technology instead of looking at the real problem. Our attitudes. A nuclear bomb does not drop itself on a nation. WE drop it. Bullets don't magically embed themselves in man-flesh, WE put them there. Midget she-male porn movies aren't produced by the camera, they are produced by US.


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PK

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Offlinejohnnyfive
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Re: Reflections on Consciousness [Re: PsilosKube]
    #1669231 - 06/28/03 12:53 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

i was just thinking, why does everyone think that a nuke is the most powerfull or the worst thing that could happen?


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Offlinesomebodyelse
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Re: Reflections on Consciousness [Re: PsilosKube]
    #1669280 - 06/28/03 01:13 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:


Technology is what allows us to fight off sickness and plagues.




... which counter's evolution's survival of the fittest, breed new "super-bugs" through mutation (those organisms which can resist the drugs go to on the wreak new havoc, etc etc)

Quote:


Technology heals tragically wounded people and extends the human life span.




...which exacerbates overpopulation and the accompanying stretch on resources, and, again, works against "survival of the fittest".

Quote:


Technology is what allowed you and many others to educate themselves on many things through the internet




My favorite application.:)

Quote:


Technology allows one person to travel to the other side of the planet in a few days.




And has allowed the growth of worldwide epidemics, has created globalization, exploitation and terrorism in your backyard.

Quote:


Technology has helped farmers raise food for hundreds of years




Which has led to the creation of frakenfoods, industrialized food with all sorts of pesticides and associated ahit in it, has caused irreperable depletion of topsoil on a widescale basis, has caused mass extinction (or almost) of songbirds and plains animals, ...

Quote:


Technology allows us to populate otherwise uninhabitable areas of the earth.




...which often has led to the destruction of the fragile ecosystems in those areas. Also, see Australian Aborginals for an example of how this isn't so much a "technology" thing as a "human ingenuity" thing.

Quote:


What will happen when global overpopulation becomes a problem (Assuming we make it that far)?




It already is. We're about to hit an energy crisis (when oil becomes too expensive to extract within the next 20 years -- we're not prepared)

Quote:


Will we all huddle together enmass or look to technology to reach beyond our planet or colonize portions of it that are not yet utilized?




Or will we get a clue and work towards reverse population growth? More than likely we'll die off in large scale warfare, a couple global epidemics, and in the fallout from the energy crunch. (We seem to have made our own apocalypse.)

Quote:


You do realize that technology is what allows you to cook your food and light your home right?




Fire did this adequately before.

Quote:


Is that pipe you are using to smoke your herb a piece of technology?




Is a piece of hollowed wood technology? (More on this in postscript)

Quote:


Would you seriously want to revert to a lifestyle where only your most basic needs are provided for?




If you can, watch movies about unindustrialized tribes. (Baraka has some good shots). The tribal lifestyle (in an idealized low population society) doesn't seem bad to me.


I can't speak for the dude, but technology has come to replace nature. Of course technology and homo sapiens go together like hand in glove, but so do mammals and the selfish gene, which produces all of the attitudes you mention as our root woe. Our ingenuity has been a curse - we're not "mature" or enlightened (insert your favorite phrase here) enough to yield the tremendous responsibility given to us by the power of our technology. As a result we're on a knife edge in terms of our long term survival, we've lost touch with "our humanity" (whatever that was), and generally we're close to wrecking our ecosystem.

Can we go back? Not easily, and nobody seriously is proposing that. All I'm saying (again, can't speak for the dude) is that technology deserves some of the blame here.


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Reflections on Consciousness [Re: PsilosKube]
    #1669672 - 06/28/03 04:47 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Technology is a catch-22.

It has many benefits, and many downfalls.

Used in the proper context, with the right intentions, technology can be created that is helpful, and in harmony with nature.

Unfortunately, we have not exactly strived for such things.
No matter which way you slice it, nuclear weapons are not helpful technology. Destroying every living organism within a certain radius cannot come in handy in any realistic scenario.

We could make technology that cleans the air, the oceans...transportation that runs from perpetual earth energy, and other wonderful inventions of mind and spirit that combine the creativeness of spirit with the cold logic of technology, what we could call 'right-brained' technology, that flows in harmony with nature, rather than against it.

But no, it's all about the almighty dollar. What new useless, wasteful product can we mass-produce and shove down the consumer's throats?

You are correct in asserting that it is the humans behind the technology who are responsible for their actions. But that does not mean guns and atomic weapons are great things.

In order to achieve change, we must focus on more wholesome intentions. Let's face it, the internal combustion engine is not going to be around forever. It's time to start playing with new ideas, relinquishing the old, outdated beliefs. Using our technology and wisdom to create things which are actually helpful... not just for the corporate headquarter's pocketbook.

The source of it all starts with illogical thinking. That's what allows us to go down that path, wasting billions of dollars, lives, and resources for some futile action like war. Spend those billions of dollars providing health care for your country, giving homes to the homeless, I say. Feed your goddamn people first.

Instead of spending 500 million dollars on a bomb, that will kill 5 innocent people in the middle of the desert, why not channel that money towards something useful, like creating cars that DONT run on gas. Why? Because there's no oil, therefore no money in it, silly.

Technology is a double-edged sword. We need to change our intentions and our beliefs before technology changes.

We are on the way, for sure. But we still have a lot to learn.

I would prefer to live in a world where technology is used in conjuction with spirit, not against it, or in denial of it. Again, it is all about what the technology is created for. And ours is for making money, and making us lazy.


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InvisibleTheDude
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Re: Reflections on Consciousness [Re: somebodyelse]
    #1669690 - 06/28/03 04:59 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Somebodyelse, great job man, I couldn't have said it better myself. All the points you brought up to counter technology or point out its flaws are right on the money. I will add a couple comments though.

Psiloskube stated "Would you seriously want to revert to a lifestyle where only your most basic needs are provided for"?

The reason why you would expect a 'no' answer is because the act of returning to a simpler lifestyle would require me to unselfishly give up my various technological trinkets. What I would be getting in return is a lifestyle where people didn't try to crush each-other to get that extra dollar, where community was important and people spent time with other people.

Now I ask you, would you seriously want to live in a world where nobody says hello or smiles to one another as they pass in the streets, where people are treated as a means and not an end and help is only given when it benefits both parties? Oh wait, we already live in such a miserable cold world....and I don't think things are going to be getting any better. Technology has taken our attention away from the community and focused it on our own petty selfish desires. Sure, it is nice when I can go to the doctor to fix my illnesses, but my life isn't that important. Should I die tomorrow, the world isn't going to end and our species will continue on.

I just feel that technology is hindering the evolution of our minds. We are so busy trying to perfect the physical world that we fail to realize how useless this pursuit is. And if we do manage to perfect everything (hah) then what's the point of living? We'll just all sit around staring at tv, only moving to change the channel or to press the button that summons our robot slave to fetch a sandwich. Honestly, I'd rather live in one of those tribes you see on tv, where everybody in the tribe knows one another and the sense of belonging to a communal family is there.

Did you ever see Escape From L.A.? At the end, Snake Plissken uses the doomsday device on earth and we're no longer able to harness/use our normal sources of power; we are reverted back to the stone age. My point is that one day our technology could fail us horribly and leave the human race at the mercy of mother nature. We will have forgotten how to get along without supermarkets and computers....we'll be fucked! However, if it came to that, I'm sure human ingenuity would come along and kickstart things in the wrong direction again....


--------------------
"this lebowski he called himself 'the dude'. now, 'dude', that's a name no one would self-apply where i come from but there was a lot about the dude that didn't make sense to me...."--the Stranger


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Reflections on Consciousness [Re: TheDude]
    #1669709 - 06/28/03 05:13 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Wise words my friend.

The only pursuit that is permanent is spiritual. Technology comes and goes. An example of smart technology - The Pyramids. They were created with spiritual intentions, and the ability to last for a long, long time. That's for another discussion though..

All these physical luxuries are all fine and dandy, but they won't do crap for you when you are dead. We will all die. Who cares how long or short it takes?

The purpose of life is to evolve. However much of the time evolution is achieved through learning from your mistakes. The sad part is you don't often realize the consequences until it's too late.

I should like a place where the pursuit of spiritual matters are of the highest consideration, and physical things come second. That, however, is almost a laughing matter for some. Ha, ha. :shake:

It doesn't really matter either way. Cause what happens is gonna happen. We'll learn eventually, hindsight is always 20/20. But in the end, I think we will discover that spirit is what really matters, and the nurturing and development of that is why we are here in the freaking first place. And then, only then, will we start creating technology that is IN HARMONY WITH SPIRIT>


 


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Offlinethe universe
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Re: Reflections on Consciousness [Re: TheDude]
    #1669727 - 06/28/03 05:22 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Damn you've got a negative view. We might as well kill ourselves off "it's going to happen anyway". Look, if you really got to know most of the people around you, not necessarily at high school if you still attend, but almost anywhere else, you'll realize that the majority of people are relatively open and are doing what they think is right. Technology is only a tool. If we were to revert to cave-man days, then I don't want to see you use a rock to kill anything or dig a hole. That would be using technology. Technology is a beautiful thing, and I think that it actually helps our consciousness if used with the right intention. Technology created LSD. Technology helped to grow and transport your weed and shrooms. The internet is definately an excellent tool for conciousness expansion. Technology gives us freedom and therefore more faculties with wich we can expand our conciousness. If we were worried about hunting down our next meal all the time, I don't think our minds would develop that much.


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"If you had a million years to do it in, you couldn't rub out even half the 'Fuck you' signs in the world."- J. D. Salinger


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InvisiblePsilosKube
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Re: Reflections on Consciousness [Re: the universe]
    #1669751 - 06/28/03 05:32 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

You're still not understanding. Technology can do an equal amount of good as it can do bad. It is US that decides which way it swings. Fire lights homes and cooks food, but you need technology to create and harness fire.

If we had no technology you would be as ignorant as the common man was 2000 years ago. How is that good?

You cannot increase knowlage without increasing technology. You cannot test theory or record facts.

You're still blaming the technology when the technology is not to blame. Taking technology away will not change who we are. We will still have the same problems.


--------------------
PK

All information and images posted by myself are fictional and for entertainment purposes only. I accept no responsibility for inapropriate or Illegal use of this information.


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Reflections on Consciousness [Re: PsilosKube]
    #1669799 - 06/28/03 06:09 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Essentially, it all boils down to humans (us) taking responsibility for our actions.


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Offlinesomebodyelse
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Re: Reflections on Consciousness [Re: Shroomism]
    #1669842 - 06/28/03 06:47 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

The dude's point is that we are relying on our external construction and ingenuity at the expense of our inner development. Technology is a sterile crutch, and the more you rely on it, the less able you are to be truly human.

You study unindustrialized cultures, and you find interconnectedness. In industrialized societies, we are mainly connected by the machines and constructs that we live in. (Another great movie I recommend is Koyaanisqatsi - by the same filmmaker who did Baraka, the one I mentioned earlier. )

Perhaps I'm arguing against a different thing - I feel industrialization is a bad way to live, and that we're going to find this out sooner rather than later. Industrialization is not of course technology, and technology in and of itself is not bad, you're correct.


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OfflineGrav
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Re: Reflections on Consciousness [Re: somebodyelse]
    #1669914 - 06/28/03 07:28 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

but hey, we can probably still manage to live in this dreamworld void of repercussions for the rest of OUR generations lifetime... as for our kids... hrmmm... well, that's their problem!

and now back to your regularly scheduled programming.


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InvisibleTheDude
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Re: Reflections on Consciousness [Re: somebodyelse]
    #1670007 - 06/28/03 08:31 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Actually, I have seen Naqoyqatsi (the 3rd installment), which in Hopi means Life as War. Absolutely a brilliant film and I'd really like to see the others Godfrey Reggio has made.

As far as everything else goes, I do agree that technology can be good when it's used by the right people with proper foresight but right now that foresight is clouded by a huge fucking dollar sign. It seems that the path we have taken asks "How can we manipulate the environment to suit our needs"? Basically, how can we change our environment so we don't have to change ourselves? In the past, evolution has always stemmed from organisisms adapting to circumstances in their environments, not the other way around. I feel like our developement is at a standstill as a result, and all the tinkering with our environment may one day blow up in our face (it has already, but small scale).

Shroomism, very nice. Technology in harmony with spirit...I couldn't think of a better phrase. I do believe we have the power to change our ways, but the masses seem brainwashed into thinking cars and fashion are the most important things in life....

I gotta split right now, perhaps more later....


--------------------
"this lebowski he called himself 'the dude'. now, 'dude', that's a name no one would self-apply where i come from but there was a lot about the dude that didn't make sense to me...."--the Stranger


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Offlinejohnnyfive
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Re: Reflections on Consciousness [Re: Shroomism]
    #1670072 - 06/28/03 09:06 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

indeed would be a double-edged sword.

Shroomism im sure you've heard of how during this great global acension, all 3rd density bodys must die to born agian of 4th density.

What your opinon of this?


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And the gameshow host rings the buzzer (brrnnntt) oh and now you get a face full of face!


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OfflinePed
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Re: Reflections on Consciousness [Re: johnnyfive]
    #1670171 - 06/28/03 10:08 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

This is a great thread. Lots of very practical and progressive thinking.

As McKenna put it,

[As a cultural establishment:] "The celebration of mind as play, the celebration of love as a genuine social value in the community. These things are possible."


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Re: Reflections on Consciousness [Re: Ped]
    #1670290 - 06/28/03 11:07 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Im going to have to agree with Albert Einstein...

"Things should be made as easy as possible, but no easier"

Take time to reflect on that quote (which isnt the exact quote).

Question: Is Technology Bad?

Answer: Technology is neutral. Technology is not a form of life and thus bares no consciousness. Something without consciousness cannot be good or bad. Is just is.

Technology is very useful, and beneficial. However, just like science - it is now all about money, and instead of benefitting humanity, technology is used to manipulate and benefit a select few.

Technology is like socialism - in an idea world, it works perfect. In the world we live in today, which the devil holds his grips upon - it will eventually collapse, JUST LIKE a society based on communism or socialism.



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OfflineGixxer_boy
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Re: Reflections on Consciousness [Re: tekramrepus]
    #1670476 - 06/29/03 12:57 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

"...which exacerbates overpopulation and the accompanying stretch on resources, and, again, works against "survival of the fittest". "

You wouldn't be saying this if someone you loved had a currently easily curable yet life-threatening illness.

"Which has led to the creation of frakenfoods, industrialized food with all sorts of pesticides and associated ahit in it, has caused irreperable depletion of topsoil on a widescale basis, has caused mass extinction (or almost) of songbirds and plains animals, ..."

Before this "frankenfoods" (I think thats what you were trying to spell), famine would be commonplace in all society's. If you had only eaten a few tiny meals in several months because you're only source of food unexpectedly died out, you would wish you had those genetically engineered foods.

"And has allowed the growth of worldwide epidemics, has created globalization, exploitation and terrorism in your backyard."

And has allowed you to communicate all these beliefs with people you would never have before met, has allowed you to leave the 5 mile radius of your home so you don't have to marry your cousin, and has allowed you to learn about and tolerate people who are different than you.

"If you can, watch movies about unindustrialized tribes. (Baraka has some good shots). The tribal lifestyle (in an idealized low population society) doesn't seem bad to me."

That's because these are simply movies. They don't talk about the huge infant mortality rate, the horrible and uncureable diseases, and the extremely short lives they live. Theres a reason why people who are 40 years old in unindustrialized tribes look like they are 70+, their lives are extremely difficult and taxing.


"All these physical luxuries are all fine and dandy, but they won't do crap for you when you are dead. We will all die. Who cares how long or short it takes?"

This could be said about anything, whats the point of learning if its all gone when you're dead?

"What I would be getting in return is a lifestyle where people didn't try to crush each-other to get that extra dollar, where community was important and people spent time with other people."

Violence and crime are gonna be there, no matter what. If its not for money, its for food, its for sex, its for power. Human nature is human nature.

Eh, I guess I just started alot of arguments with alot of people, I guess I just generally disagree with the opinions presented here. The way our society is developing is progress, but not perfect. If it was perfect, there would be no ability to progress. Things are getting better and better, with the occassional regression here and there, but all in all I would rather live today than any other period of time in history, and I would rather live in an industrialized western nation than any other area in the world, simply because life is easier and freedom is more readily accessible. Of course things are far from perfect, but its the best we've got up till now.


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"Why do women have breasts?"
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"So you can have something to look at when you're talking to them!" -Peter Griffin


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OfflineRhizoid
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Re: Reflections on Consciousness [Re: somebodyelse]
    #1670653 - 06/29/03 02:38 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

You should read Thor Heyerdahl's book "Fatu-Hiva, the Return to Nature".

He and his wife went to the polynesian island Fatu Hiva and lived there 1937-38, with almost no technology. At first, they thought that they were going to live an utopian life without technology and western lifestyle.

And indeed the polynesian lifestyle was much more relaxed and natural (although in the old days the local people indulged in cannibalism and had recurring bloody wars, with low-tech weapons of course). But disease, lack of communications, and the boring cuisine made the Heyerdahls give up after a year.

I think you can be happy without any particular useful technology if you don't know about it. But if you know about it, you can't escape the knowledge that having access to technology will give you more options than if you don't. So if we were to return to a low-tech lifestyle where people starve to death and die in large numbers by contagious diseases, then we would have to erase all memories of all the technology that can prevent such problems, otherwise we will be very unhappy.


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OfflineDrubuShrume
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Re: Reflections on Consciousness [Re: Gixxer_boy]
    #1670697 - 06/29/03 02:54 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

So is it safe to say that Technology in a Capitalist or empirialist society is the downfall of the human race? Or is it greed?

I think the downfall of the human race is simply existing.

We are alive, and need to find something to do with our time.

Unfortunately, not everyone (especially mainstream) agrees with the living with nature- they take the I'm alive and I'll do what I want while I'm alive - without consideration.

I think most people on this board understand the value of nature and harmony, but I also think many people are blinded by the mass of society.

We(as messageboard posters) can't control the fact that North Korea is developing nuclear weapons, and I'm sure we don't agree with it based on the harmonic views here, but in North Korea's mind what they are doing is right. Anyone can flame up and say "HOW CAN ANYONE THINK THAT KILLING MILLIONS OF INNOCENT PEOPLE IS RIGHT?" but I ask how they can say its wrong to someone who believes in it. The masses may form an opinion, but there are always exemptions.

I feel humble and accept everything for what it is, people are who they are because they are. You can't hold someones life against them, its just a waste of your own life.


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AH HA....


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