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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Re: Kerry's Service Timeline [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #3029267 -

Maybe when he was in Paris with Jane Fonda negotiating with the Viet Cong he actually thought he was somewhere else. He should have been somewhere else.


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Tastes just like chicken

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Re: Kerry's Service Timeline [Re: JesusChrist]
    #3029286 -

Quote:
He should have been somewhere else.

  :thumbup:


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Re: Kerry's Service Timeline [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #3029497 -

luvdemshrooms said:
Quote:
He should have been somewhere else.

  :thumbup:

Yes, like serving proudly in the national guard (AhAHAHAHAHAH, punk) in Alabama, gotta protect the best state in the union.


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Re-Defeat Bush in '04

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Re: Kerry's Service Timeline [Re: Skikid16]
    #3029688 -

So to you the Guard is laughable? Tell that to a Guardsman. Or woman.


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Re: Kerry's Service Timeline [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #3029975 -

Ummm, not in and of itself, but when theres combat, and someone joins the guard knowing fully that some of his countrymen are dying in combat that he could easily be a part of. Then that person goes on to become a "war" president, then critizes his opponent's claims about the combat he himself "avoided", then in that situation I find the Guard laughable.


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Re-Defeat Bush in '04

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Re: Kerry's Service Timeline [Re: Skikid16]
    #3030071 -

A few points:

1) Bush was not just in the Texas Air National Guard, he was a fighter pilot in the TANG. At the time he joined, 75% of TANG pilots were being sent to Viet Nam. This fact would not have escaped Bush.

2) Bush hasn't criticized Kerry's military service.

pinky


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Re: Kerry's "Cambodian Christmas" etc. [Re: Vvellum]
    #3030094 -

bi0 said:
Personally, I couldnt care less what a buch of scared young men did or didnt do in 1968 during a bullshit, unpopular war. I am more interested in 2004 - 2008. And I think my sentiments are shared by many.


So in 40 years if the young Army MP photographed at Abu Ghraib "torturing" prisoners decides to run, you won't mind it at all, right? As long, of course, as shes a democrat? Maybe she shouldn't be punished? After all, scare, young, a "bullshit" "unpopular" war I'm sure you'd call it. Wonder if the shoe being on the other foot changes things some?

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Re: Kerry's Service Timeline [Re: Phred]
    #3030150 -

Quote:
1) Bush was not just in the Texas Air National Guard, he was a fighter pilot in the TANG. At the time he joined, 75% of TANG pilots were being sent to Viet Nam.

Cool, thanks for the info, I didn't know that.

Quote:
2) Bush hasn't criticized Kerry's military service.

Far enough.



Ok, to rephrase, I think it funny that Bush supporters have critizized kerry's military service.


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Re-Defeat Bush in '04

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Re: Kerry's Service Timeline [Re: Skikid16]
    #3030179 -

Skikid16 said:
Ok, to rephrase, I think it funny that Bush supporters have critizized kerry's military service.


Why? A great many Bush supporters have far more distinguished records than Kerry and are decidedly unimpressed. In fact, a lot of them hate his guts.


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Re: Kerry's Service Timeline [Re: Skikid16]
    #3030222 -

I'm not sure you understand my original point.

It's not just that Kerry lied about his service repeatedly -- lots of vets exaggerate what they did in combat. Hell, plenty of people who were never even in the military pretend they were bad-ass killers humpin' the boonies. Why they do this is beyond me, I just know that this kind of behavior is not at all uncommon.

My point is that the liberal media is still giving Kerry a free pass on this -- although with the continuing buzz in the blogosphere it's getting harder and harder to continue their silent routine. I say again -- and all of you, even the hardcore Lefties, know I'm right about this -- if revelations of this nature concerned Bush (or Cheney or even any member of Bush's cabinet), the press would have been all over this like white on rice.

If it had been Bush, we would have seen the press howling for an instant press conference, then seen a list of questions something like this:

"Last week your staff said you hadn't been in Cambodia on Christmas Eve, 1968, even though you had written and spoken emphatically about having been there on many occasions, including the floor of the Senate.? How did you make such a mistake?"

"What persuaded you last week that your memory from all those years was wrong?"

"In June of last year you showed a Washington Post reporter a hat you carry in a compartment of your attache case and told her that a CIA man gave you that hat when you took him on your swift boat across the border into Cambodia. Do you have the hat with you?"

"Could you please tell us everything about that trip, your conversation with CIA man, and whether any members of your crew participated in that conversation?"

"Which day did that occur?"

"Your staff said this week that you made a trip into Cambodia carrying quote commandos close quote. Was that the same trip as this trip with the CIA man?"

"How many commandos were there?? What date did this occur on?"

"Historian Douglas Brinkley has said that your journals indicated three or four cross border missions to Cambodia, where you acted as a ferry-man for SEALs, Green Berets and CIA men.? Is he right about his number?"

"Can you detail these missions for us?"

"In June of 2000, you told a reporter for U.S.News & World Report that you had run weapons to anticommunist forces in Cambodia.? Can you provide us the details of those missions?? Which forces were you resupplying?? Which weapons did you take?? Where did you drop them off?"

"Did you provide reports of all these missions? Did you make entries in your log about the ship's movements?? Have you discussed these covert missions with the crew since they occurred?"

"You have not authorized the release of all your military and medical records by signing an SF-180.? Why not? Will you do so now?" (Oops -- sorry, that question would apply only to Kerry, of course, not to Bush, since he long ago did just that).

"Will you hold another press conference tomorrow so we can follow up on your answers?"

"What do you think about war veterans who exaggerate their accomplishments in order to advance their careers?"

Actually, now that I think of it, those questions are far too polite and soft-hitting to accurately represent the kind of questions Bush receives at press conferences -- too little editorializing in them.

Anyway, will we ever see a member of the mainstream press ask even one of those questions to Kerry? Not a hope in hell.

pinky


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Re: Kerry's Service Timeline [Re: Phred]
    #3030283 -

Quote:
If it had been Bush, we would have seen the press howling for an instant press conference

I'll conceed this point.

But....

Quote:
then seen a list of questions something like this

I will disagree with this, first off because I doubt Bush and Co. would even agree to a press conference that easily, secondly because IF bush were to hold a press coference, he sure as shit wouldn't answer the tough questions, hell, he wouldn't address the reporters he knows that ask those type of questions.


Quote:
will we ever see a member of the mainstream press ask even one of those questions to Kerry?

Probably about as much of a likelyhood as seeing Bush and Cheney's testimony to the 9/11 commission, but that's another topic.......


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Re-Defeat Bush in '04

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Re: Kerry's Service Timeline [Re: zappaisgod]
    #3030391 -

Quote:
Why? A great many Bush supporters have far more distinguished records than Kerry and are decidedly unimpressed. In fact, a lot of them hate his guts.

Because the president they support doesn't have a military record to speak of.


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Re-Defeat Bush in '04

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Re: Kerry's Service Timeline [Re: Phred]
    #3032100 -

I think the sharkman makes some excellent points. They would be on Bush like flies on shit.

And I don't see why Bush's record really even comes into play. He has already been President, and people can make their choice based upon his performance in office. What would be more relevant, what Bush did in the National Guard or what he did in the last 4 years as President of the United States?

Kerry made Vietnam the centerpiece of his campaign at the Democratic National Convention. People have legitimate questions about Kerry's actions both during the war and directly after he returned.


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Tastes just like chicken

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Re: Kerry's Service Timeline [Re: Phred]
    #3032405 -

Quote:
More Swift Boat Nonsense

David Corn (the best journalist in America? Could be.) has obtained the Bronze Star citation for Robert Eugene Lambert, who, along with Larry Thurlow and John Kerry, won that honor in march of 1969. Shockingly, it confirms everything John Kerry and his "band of brothers" has said, and contradicts everything the Swift Boat Veterans For John Kerry Made Us Lose Vietnam said. Huh. Imagine that. It's almost as if what John Kerry, the Navy, and everyone who was there at the time agreed happened is actually what really happened, and everything that Joe Scarborogh (I don't care how you really spell it) has been telling me for the last week or so is complete fucking horseshit. It's almost as if John Kerry really is a war hero, just like everyone already knew fucking thirty years ago, and further discussion of this topic is just continuing to shit on a man who has more in the bravery and honor department than anyone you've ever met, or ever will meet. Hmm. Hmmmmmmmmmm. This story needs a new angle.

So, I have a question: are we really talking about this? I'm not dreaming? Because I have dreams this weird sometimes. I guess I shouldn't be surprised, really, when you think about who made this ad, and who they made it for. People who believe that dinosaur bones were planted by Satan to trick unsuspecting archaeologists into atheism. People who think that the National Academy of Sciences is a front organization for radical leftists who want to take away your freedom by saying that climate science is real. People who think that Jesus talks to George Bush. (Jesus hasn't suffered enough for you, now he has to spend his free time with that smirking pussy? Give Jesus a break already.) People who think that FOX News is, actually, fair and balanced. Basically, people who think that if the facts don't support what you want to believe, you probably aren't believing hard enough. Oh, and they run the country. Yeah, this one. Nice.

How far gone are we? We're so far gone that Chris Mathews thinks it's ridiculous. That's how far gone we are. We're completely through the looking glass here, people. The looking glass is fucked.

So, everyone keep doing what you're doing. Keep it up. Keep on trying to pretend that this is anything but a singularly transparent and clumsy hatchet job. Keep pretending you aren't making complete asses of yourselves, debase yourselves. Do it 'til you can't do it no more, because, when the smoke clears, I don't want there to be any doubt about what you are. Work it for me. You're doing great. Hacks and whores.

Oh, and I wonder if there's any significance to the fact that one of the fine fellows in a Swift Boat Veterans For Truth ad, one Kenneth Cordier, is (or was) a rather high-ranking member of the Bush-Cheney 2000 and Bush-Cheney 2004 campaigns. And that his name has recently been removed from the Bush-Cheney 2004 campaign website. Oh, wait: did you say 'Swift Boat Veterans For Truth?" "For Truth", you said? Oh, dear. Is my face red! Please, please, go back to looking for the truth. Forget I ever mentioned any of this. Just forget I ever brought it up.


http://www.thepoorman.net/archives/003076.html


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The People's Voice, Welcoming Liberals and Conservatives Alike

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Re: Kerry's Service Timeline [Re: DigitalDuality]
    #3032705 -

Did John Kerry and Jane Fonda really meet with the Viet Cong while the war was going on, or is that part of the pack of lies? Was the transcript of John Kerry's testimony before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee fabricated? Did he really say those things, or is it some cruel hoax perpetrated on us by some vast right wing conspiracy?


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Tastes just like chicken

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Re: Kerry's Service Timeline [Re: Phred]
    #3035482 -

My point is that the liberal media is still giving Kerry a free pass on this

I've just gone to CNN and this story is the main headline. Looks like another "left-wing media" theory crashes and burns.

if revelations of this nature concerned Bush (or Cheney or even any member of Bush's cabinet), the press would have been all over this like white on rice.

Have they been all over the claims Micheal Moore made about Bush in the mainstream media? Or the claims in House of Bush, House of Saud?

I say again -- and all of you, even the hardcore Lefties, know I'm right about this

You're about as right as you were on WMD.

Actually, now that I think of it, those questions are far too polite and soft-hitting to accurately represent the kind of questions Bush receives at press conferences

Give me strength. Are you seriously trying to claim that there's a marxist conspiracy among every journalist in the US to ask Bush hard questions and ask Kerry soft questions? Where do they all meet to discuss this and decide what question is "soft" and which is "hard"? You don't think there's even one journalist who might not be a marxist and decide to break the story and say "Hey, like every journalist in America meets the night before and we all tell each other what questions to ask Bush dude".

Get with the program pink.


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Don't worry, B. Caapi

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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

General Interest > Political Discussion
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