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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Kerry's "Cambodian Christmas" etc.
    #3016393 -

I can hardly believe (...well, yes... I guess I can) that I'm the first to post about a huge issue coming up in the US presidential campaign -- JFK's blatant fabrications of what transpired in his four month tour of duty in Viet Nam.

Oh, you didn't know he served in Viet Nam? How odd, since he can't speak for more than 45 seconds on any topic without shoe-horning in at least one reference to it.

Despite his hallowed (and completely fabricated) "band of brothers" connection, those who actually served with him (all the way up the chain of command, Democrats and Republicans both) have overwhelmingly stated that he is completely unfit to command even a single Swift boat, let alone the most powerful military in the world. His entire Viet Nam stint now appears to have been a carefully stage-managed resum?-booster. His medals (especially his purple hearts, but the others as well) now appear to have been awarded for completely bogus reasons. We know already he is a self-admitted war criminal, and he (or more accurately his campaign mouthpieces) has in essence admitted to lying about his "Cambodian Christmas" that was "seared -- seared" -- into his memory. A pivotal moment in his young life, no less. The moment that presumably led him to lie under oath to the Senate about what he had allegedly witnessed in Viet Nam (see the "Winter Soldiers" expos? for details).

Yet the mainstream press is giving this a complete pass. No liberal bias in the US mainstream press? Uh-huh. Imagine if this had been Bush or Cheney caught in such easily-provable ... umm, let's try to be as polite as possible here... "misremembrances". It would be front page news for weeks if not months. Tell me honestly how many of you have seen a single mention of this in the New York Times, the LA Times, the Washington Post, CNN, MSNBC, ABC, CBS, NBC. Hell, the UK press is more on top of this than the US press. Even the freaking Guardian... the Leftist rag of all Leftist rags... has had more coverage of this than the US press.

Kerry is a lying sac of pus. Even though if I were allowed to vote in the upcoming US election I would personally still vote for Michael Badnarik, I am finding it harder and harder to criticize those who would choose to vote for Bush (with all his warts and faults -- and yes, they are legion) over this... this... festering excrescence on the US political scene.

The "man" has no shame, no testicles, no honor, no brains, no principles, no moral compass whatsoever. He is (hard as it is to believe) even more a shameless political animal than Slick Willie (Bill Clinton) was/is, and I don't make accusations like that lightly.

I can imagine few scenarios more horrific than having the US under the nominal control of this hollow "man" for the next four years.

Discuss at will.

pinky


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Re: Kerry's "Cambodian Christmas" etc. [Re: Phred]
    #3016406 -

Source?

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Re: Kerry's "Cambodian Christmas" etc. [Re: Phred]
    #3016433 -

Quote:
Even though if I were allowed to vote in the upcoming US election I would personally still vote for Michael Badnarik, I am finding it harder and harder to criticize those who would choose to vote for Bush (with all his warts and faults -- and yes, they are legion) over this...


you criticize bush supporters? wow - on what planet is this occuring?

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Re: Kerry's "Cambodian Christmas" etc. [Re: Vvellum]
    #3016492 -

Quote:
you criticize bush supporters? wow - on what planet is this occuring?


:lol:

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Re: Kerry's "Cambodian Christmas" etc. [Re: Vvellum]
    #3016521 -

If you were a regular visitor to this forum, you would know already that I have never recommended anyone vote for Bush. I have always advocated voting Libertarian. It drives a few of the regular conservative posters here nuts, I know, but what can I do?

Bush's economic policies are nothing short of disastrous. His only saving grace is that Kerry's are worse. I know, I know... that's damning with faint praise, but that doesn't alter the fact that the only good economic decision he has made so far was to cut taxes. His policy on steel tariffs, his socialization of medicine (free prescription drugs for seniors) and others are insanity. His enormous increase in federal funds for education is a major error. His amnesty program for illegal aliens is totally wrongheaded... although I will grudgingly admit that there really is no perfect solution for dealing with that particular longstanding can of worms -- all available options in that area have significant downsides. Still, rewarding lawbreakers is nuts. The fact that he has yet to veto even one bill out of Congress which increases federal spending is just gutless... and yes, I know... some of them were veto-proof from the get-go, but not all of them were.

Libertarian is the only sane way to vote.

pinky


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Re: Kerry's "Cambodian Christmas" etc. [Re: Phred]
    #3016570 -

Quote:
the only good economic decision he has made so far was to cut taxes.


how is increasing the deficit a 'good economic decision'?

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Re: Kerry's "Cambodian Christmas" etc. [Re: Phred]
    #3016785 -

Quote:
If you were a regular visitor to this forum, you would know already that I have never recommended anyone vote for Bush. I have always advocated voting Libertarian. It drives a few of the regular conservative posters here nuts, I know, but what can I do?


I am a regular here. You'd be surprised to hear that I have probably have been 'round these parts longer than you have and most others - I even remember the day this forum was created and all of the original moderators and participants. No bullshit. I read most threads, even if I do not always participate in them.

Quote:
Bush's economic policies are nothing short of disastrous. His only saving grace is that Kerry's are worse. I know, I know... that's damning with faint praise, but that doesn't alter the fact that the only good economic decision he has made so far was to cut taxes. His policy on steel tariffs, his socialization of medicine (free prescription drugs for seniors) and others are insanity. His enormous increase in federal funds for education is a major error. His amnesty program for illegal aliens is totally wrongheaded... although I will grudgingly admit that there really is no perfect solution for dealing with that particular longstanding can of worms -- all available options in that area have significant downsides. Still, rewarding lawbreakers is nuts. The fact that he has yet to veto even one bill out of Congress which increases federal spending is just gutless... and yes, I know... some of them were veto-proof from the get-go, but not all of them were.


Thanks for sharing your critique of the domestic policies of Bush Inc. I was merely pointing out that you seem to never start threads criticizing Bush and only seem to bring up such problems as these when someone asks you to or if on the defense. Personally, I'd like to hear more of your libertarian critique of Bush and the GOP - seems rare, all the while, Nader supporters and other leftists spare no time criticizing both Bush and Kerry. Why so hush-hush on your opinions of Bush? Where are your anti-Bush threads?

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Re: Kerry's "Cambodian Christmas" etc. [Re: Vvellum]
    #3017595 -

I was merely pointing out that you seem to never start threads criticizing Bush and only seem to bring up such problems as these when someone asks you to or if on the defense. Personally, I'd like to hear more of your libertarian critique of Bush and the GOP - seems rare, all the while, Nader supporters and other leftists spare no time criticizing both Bush and Kerry. Why so hush-hush on your opinions of Bush? Where are your anti-Bush threads?

/Pulls up chair... :thumbup:

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Re: Kerry's "Cambodian Christmas" etc. [Re: Vvellum]
    #3020687 -

bi0 writes:

I was merely pointing out that you seem to never start threads criticizing Bush and only seem to bring up such problems as these when someone asks you to or if on the defense.

And of course your observation has exactly zero to do with the topic of the thread -- the free pass the American mainstream media is giving Kerry on his lies.

However, it is incorrect to say that I don't start threads criticizing Bush's policies. Here's one -- http://www.shroomery.org/archives/showfl...ev=#Post1946421

There have been others, but that one was a quick find with the search function.

One reason I find it unnecessary to start threads criticizing Bush's policies is that there are no shortage of such threads. Another reason is that I don't start that many threads of any kind -- at least in comparison to the number of posts I make. I tend to respond to what's there rather than initiate the discussions. Of the 750 threads started in this forum in the last three months (May 17 to August 17) I started just 14 of them.

Back to the topic of the thread -- have you seen any articles in the mainstream media regarding Kerry's fictional "Cambodian Christmas"?

Didn't think so.

pinky


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Re: Kerry's "Cambodian Christmas" etc. [Re: Phred]
    #3021108 -

I was going to read this post but it was too long. But from what I read it looked like you are pretty angry. Hope things bright up for ya bud

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Re: Kerry's "Cambodian Christmas" etc. [Re: Phred]
    #3021253 -

Quote:
Back to the topic of the thread -- have you seen any articles in the mainstream media regarding Kerry's fictional "Cambodian Christmas"?


yes, actually I have. check the Washington Post. Check the Boston Globe. Also check out Chris Matthews on Hardball - funny you havent noticed these and others. The Cambodian story is out there, it just isnt sticking - why? The "Swift Boat Veterans for Truth" just arent credible - many would say they are simply damn liars.

Records Counter A Critic Of Kerry

Republican-funded Group Attacks Kerry's War Record - Ad features vets who claim Kerry "lied" to get Vietnam medals. But other witnesses disagree

McCain condemns anti-Kerry ads, calls on White House to follow suit

Personally, I couldnt care less what a buch of scared young men did or didnt do in 1968 during a bullshit, unpopular war. I am more interested in 2004 - 2008. And I think my sentiments are shared by many.

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Re: Kerry's "Cambodian Christmas" etc. [Re: Vvellum]
    #3021887 -

Quote:
Personally, I couldnt care less what a buch of scared young men did or didnt do in 1968 during a bullshit, unpopular war. I am more interested in 2004 - 2008. And I think my sentiments are shared by many.



EXACTLY!!:thumbup::thumbup:

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Re: Kerry's "Cambodian Christmas" etc. [Re: Vvellum]
    #3022182 -

Your first link is not from the Washington Post, but from the Washington Times. At least it's from an American newspaper, albeit one that has been derided in this forum as being as right-wing as Fox News. The Washington Times is not what most people consider part of the "mainstream American Press".

The second link is to an attempted lame rebuttal from one of Kerry's biographers, and it was written after I had made my observation, but it too is at least from an American newspaper.

The "Swift Boat Veterans for Truth" just arent credible - many would say they are simply damn liars.

Then it would be pretty easy for Kerry to shut them up decisively -- he just has to release his service records. As for them not being credible -- you will note that Kerry (to be more accurate, Kerry's staff: Kerry himself hasn't the sack to admit it) was the one caught out in lying -- repeatedly -- about Cambodia.

Same thing with the circumstances surrounding Kerry's first Purple Heart. Kerry's own diary entry written nine days after the wound on which the Purple Heart was based was received shows that he had yet to come under enemy fire. No enemy fire = no legitimate Purple Heart. That's not hard to figure out.

Personally, I couldnt care less what a buch of scared young men did or didnt do in 1968 during a bullshit, unpopular war.

How odd. My guess is that most of the American voters feel the same way. You'd think Kerry would recognize that. It wasn't the Republicans who injected Viet Nam into this presidential campaign, it was Kerry and his pathological inability to string more than seven or eight sentences together in public without mentioning Viet Nam at least once. His entire list of qualifications for president seems to consist of two facts: he isn't George W Bush and he served in Viet Nam. By making this service the centerpiece of his campaign, he naturally invites inspection of it.

Too bad for him what he says he did and what he actually did don't jibe. Those here who want to see Bush defeated in the upcoming election feel that credibility is an important issue for voters to consider when choosing for whom to vote. I agree with them.

pinky


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Re: Kerry's "Cambodian Christmas" etc. [Re: Phred]
    #3022682 -

Smear Boat Veterans for Bush

The "swift boat" veterans attacking John Kerry's war record are led by veteran right-wing operatives using the same vicious techniques they used against John McCain four years ago.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
By Joe Conason

May 4, 2004 |

The latest conservative outfit to fire an angry broadside against John Kerry's heroic war record is "Swift Boat Veterans for Truth" , which today launches a campaign to brand the Democrat "unfit to serve as commander in chief." Billing itself as representing the "other 97 percent of veterans" from Kerry's Navy unit who don't support his presidential candidacy, the group insists that all presidential candidates must be "totally honest and forthcoming" about their military service.

These "swift boat vets" claim still to be furious about Kerry's 1971 Senate testimony against the war in which he spoke about atrocities in Indochina's "free fire zones." More than three decades later, facing the complicated truth about Vietnam remains difficult. But this group's political connections make clear that its agenda is to target the election of 2004.

Behind the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth are veteran corporate media consultant and Texas Republican activist Merrie Spaeth, who is listed as the group's media contact; eternal Kerry antagonist and Dallas attorney John E. O'Neill, law partner of Spaeth's late husband, Tex Lezar; and retired Rear Adm. Roy Hoffman, a cigar-chomping former Vietnam commander once described as "the classic body-count guy" who "wanted hooches destroyed and people killed."

http://www.salon.com/opinion/conason/2004/05/04/swift/index_np.html

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Re: Kerry's "Cambodian Christmas" etc. [Re: Phred]
    #3022690 -

The Swift Boat Veterans for Truth are not really interested in the truth. If they were, they would be condemning Bush--not Kerry.
By Mick Youther

After John Kerry returned from Viet Nam in 1969, he began to speak out against the Nixon Administration and the war in Southeast Asia. By 1971, Nixon knew the war was already lost, but he wanted to keep it going long enough to assure his re-election. (He didn?t care how many lives might be lost in the process). Public opinion was turning against the war, and Nixon could not afford anyone bad-mouthing the war, especially a war hero. Something had to be done to counteract Kerry?s anti-war message.

? ?We found a vet named John O'Neill and formed a group called Vietnam Veterans for a Just Peace. We had O'Neill meet the President [Nixon], and we did everything we could do to boost his group.?-- Watergate conspirator Chuck Colson, quoted in the 1/5/04 issue of The New Yorker

Thirty-five years later, history is repeating itself. John Kerry is speaking out against another paranoid Republican Administration and its inept prosecution of an unwinnable war; and the same John O?Neill has been bankrolled to help the Republicans. This time the group is ?Swift Boat Veterans for Truth,? but the goal is the same?discredit John Kerry.

? ?I think this is some of the sleaziest lies I've ever seen in politics. [John O'Neill] has been a Republican functionary for over 30 years... He?s a liar. He started with?he started with Chuck Colson. He was a pawn of Chuck Colson.?-- Albert R. Hunt, Executive editor, The Wall Street Journal, on CNN's The Capital Gang, 8/7/04

? ?[The Swift Boat Veterans for Truth] are simply malcontents who have never forgiven Kerry for his actions in speaking out against the war. They seek retribution by fabricating stories to destroy him... John O'Neill has zero credibility. He was -- and still is -- Richard Nixon's patsy.?-- Douglas Brinkley, author of ?Tour of Duty?, quoted on Salon.com, 8/6/04

?It was the same kind of deal that was pulled on me? I think the ad is dishonest and dishonorable. As it is, none of these individuals served on the boat (Kerry) commanded. Many of his crew have testified to his courage under fire.?-- John McCain, AP, 8/5/04

I saw O?Neill on MSNBC?s Hardball with Chris Matthews (8/12/04). He claimed that John Kerry had somehow fooled the Navy into awarding him three Purple Hearts, a Bronze Star, and a Silver Star. He made it sound like Kerry was awarded his Silver Star for ?shooting a kid in the back??a phrase O?Neill carefully emphasized four or five times, while failing to mention that the ?kid? was carrying a rocket propelled grenade launcher and was preparing to shoot it at Kerry?s Swift Boat (according to an actual eye witness). For a lie by lie refutation of these muckraker?s claims about John Kerry?s service, go to http://www.eriposte.com/media/liars_inc/swiftboat.htm .

John O?Neill and the Bush Campaign want voters to ignore the Navy?s records, ignore the testimony of Kerry?s shipmates, and believe some people who weren?t on Kerry?s boat or, in some cases, weren?t even in Viet Nam at the same time as Kerry.

The Swift Boat Veterans for Truth claim they were organized to ensure that ?ALL presidential candidates [are] totally honest and forthcoming regarding personal background and policy information that would help the voting public make an informed decision when choosing the next president of the United States.? That is obviously not true. If it were, they would direct some of their energy and outrage toward George W. Bush?s mysterious military career.

? ?A spokesman for the Alabama National Guard estimates there were 600 to 700 members in the unit Bush was supposed to have served with in 1972. But none of these men has ever come forward to say he remembers Bush, and Bush has not named a single one of them.?-- The New Republic, 10/16/00

http://www.interventionmag.com/cms/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=841

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Re: Kerry's "Cambodian Christmas" etc. [Re: Phred]
    #3022715 -

at least he wasn pretending to be in the national guard and blowing coke

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Re: Kerry's "Cambodian Christmas" etc. [Re: Vvellum]
    #3023119 -

The Washington Post piece doesn't disprove anything that was said by Thurlow.  He didn't write the reccomendation.  He didn't even get the Bronze star until he was out of the service.

If they are in fact liars, it would be really easy to prove if Kerry's would just release his records.  If they are indeed lying, why not  directly answer them?  Why does he keep letting his staff speak for him?  Is he also stupid like Bush and require someone to lead him too?

What I find curious is that if these reporters can use FOIA to get his records, why not Kerry's????  :shrug:


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I keep it real because I think it is important that a highly esteemed individual such as myself keep it real lest they experience the dreaded spontaneous non-existance of no longer keeping it real. - Hagbard Celine

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Re: Kerry's "Cambodian Christmas" etc. [Re: HagbardCeline]
    #3023303 -

Not only that, but it is the very first mention in the WaPo about the Swift Boat Veterans accusations, and it ends up on Page A 01. The Swiftie's book is number one on Amazon.com and number three on the NYT's nonfiction list, yet this is the first mention the Washington Post has made of it.

I can just see some guy whose only source of news is the Washington Post scratching his head...

"Uh... what's this all about, anyway? How come this is the first I've heard of it? Where's the back story?"

Once again, my point is not even so much that Kerry is lying his ass off about this -- he lies about everything else after all -- it's that the supposedly "neutral" mainstream press is giving him a completely free pass on it. Can you imagine the coverage there'd be on these stories if they were about Bush?

These are serious allegations brought by some two hundred and fifty ex-Swiftees who served with Kerry, supported with mountains of documentation. Kerry has already been caught red-handed on the Cambodian Christmas and has been forced to alter his story. How many of the other allegations will prove correct?

Yet the mainstream press is silent.

pinky


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Re: Kerry's "Cambodian Christmas" etc. [Re: Phred]
    #3023614 -

This is the honest truth....where was kerry during the veitnam war? In vietnam.

Where was bush, I don't know, do you?


I don't give a flying fuck if Kerry fucked monkeys the entire time he was in vietnam, the fact that he got his ass in a boat and traveled halfway across the world to partake (how ever you wish to view his participation) in a war that Bush & Cheney would have nothing to do with.


THATS IT, fuck claims that he lied about his service, at least he had service to lie about, fucking rediculous.


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Re-Defeat Bush in '04

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Re: Kerry's "Cambodian Christmas" etc. [Re: Skikid16]
    #3023913 -

Skikid16 said:
This is the honest truth....where was kerry during the veitnam war? In vietnam.

Where was bush, I don't know, do you?


I don't give a flying fuck if Kerry fucked monkeys the entire time he was in vietnam, the fact that he got his ass in a boat and traveled halfway across the world to partake (how ever you wish to view his participation) in a war that Bush & Cheney would have nothing to do with.


THATS IT, fuck claims that he lied about his service, at least he had service to lie about, fucking rediculous.


Are some people just blind by nature or just clinically insane when politics are involved.


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I'm a nihilist. Lets be friends.

bang bang

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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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