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Offlinefft2
journeyman

Registered: 06/15/04
Posts: 106
Last seen: 13 years, 28 days
New attacks from swift boat veterans found to be lies.
    #2969184 - 08/05/04 07:47 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

New attacks from swift boat veterans found to be lies.


http://mediamatters.org/items/200408050007

While the veterans attacking Kerry in the ad are veterans of the Vietnam War and may have served at the same time as Kerry, as The New York Times reported on August 5, the Kerry campaign noted that "none of the men had actually served on the Swift boats that Mr. Kerry commanded." Adm. Roy F. Hoffman, one of the veterans in the ad, has even "acknowledged he had no first-hand knowledge to discredit Kerry's claims to valor," the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel reported on May 7, "and said that although Kerry was under his command, he really didn't know Kerry much personally."

In contrast, many of the veterans who have appeared on the campaign trail with Kerry did serve alongside him. The Wall Street Journal's Albert R. Hunt noted in his August 5 "Campaign Journal" column, titled "Sham Charges Against a War Hero" (subscription required): "Indeed, 10 of the 11 men who served on his two swift boats all have sworn by John Kerry; nine living members were in Boston [for the Democratic National Convention]."



http://www.boston.com/dailynews/218/politi...erry_ads:.shtml

'I deplore this kind of politics,' McCain said. 'I think the ad is dishonest and dishonorable. As it is, none of these individuals served on the boat (Kerry) commanded. Many of his crew have testified to his courage under fire. I think John Kerry served honorably in Vietnam.'


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OfflineHagbardCeline
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Registered: 05/10/03
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Re: New attacks from swift boat veterans found to be lies. [Re: fft2]
    #2969769 - 08/05/04 10:21 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

I would like you to explain exactly how anything in that article merits you calling those men liars. I know it's a term many of you like to throw around, but if you apply just a small amount of reasoning, you'll see your quite wrong. I won't call you a liar because it seems you don't comprehend the meaning and therefore may not have known what you said was not true.

Many of them were officers commanding other swift boats. The rest were serving on these boats as enlisted men. Swift boats would often (I would assume most often. It seems illogical to have a solitary boat. Can anyone clear this up?) travel in groups. They acted in coordinated operations. So even if "none of the men had actually served on the Swift boats that Mr. Kerry commanded", it isn't fair to say they're not in a position to make these claims because they didn't know him or have enough interaction to justify it. They could have had plenty enough experience to make the claims they have. In fact if you had read these mens accounts you'd see they don't claim to have served under him. However, I don't think it would be unreasonable that if I were to take part in joint operations between several small groups, each with their own commanding officers, to say that I had served with those men. We would all have been serving under someone higher on the chain of command.

Do you see now?

On to that article mentioning "their Republican backer." Exactly why is this so bad? This guy is a developer here in Houston where I live and he supposedly has given them $100,000. Suddenly, this is just unjustifiable? Completely unethical? Why is it ok for George Soros who has reportedly given $15 - 20 million ? This isn't a case of a double standard now is it?


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I keep it real because I think it is important that a highly esteemed individual such as myself keep it real lest they experience the dreaded spontaneous non-existance of no longer keeping it real. - Hagbard Celine


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OfflineHagbardCeline
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Re: New attacks from swift boat veterans found to be lies. [Re: fft2]
    #2969835 - 08/05/04 10:38 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Democrats (politicians :wink:) don't mind making accusations and throwing around charges, but they'll be damned if someone does it to them.

Quote:



HUMAN EVENTS has obtained a copy of a letter (see below) which lawyers for the Democratic National Committee and John Kerry have sent to television station managers attempting to suppress the blistering anti-Kerry TV spot created by the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth (click here to view the ad) and first reported here on HumanEventsOnline.com.

The letter claims the ad is "false" and "libelous" and suggests, in not-so-subtle terms, that TV stations should use their "legal authority" to refuse any requests for advertising airtime, stating that "because your station has this freedom [to refuse the ad], and because it is not a 'use' of your facilities by a clearly identified candidate, your station is responsible for the false and libelous charges made by this sponsor" (emphasis added).

As their first piece of evidence of the ad's supposed lies, the DNC/Kerry lawyers claim that the veterans in the ad "purport to have served on Senator Kerry's SWIFT Boat in Vietnam" but, "in fact, not a single one of the men who pretend to have served with Senator Kerry was actually a crewmate of Senator Kerry's." The problem is that none of these men claimed to have served on Kerry's SWIFT Boat. They simply said they "served with John Kerry" -- and they did. The letter goes on to make several more misleading statements about the advertisement, in an attempt to protect Kerry's "war hero" record. Read the full text below.
 








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I keep it real because I think it is important that a highly esteemed individual such as myself keep it real lest they experience the dreaded spontaneous non-existance of no longer keeping it real. - Hagbard Celine


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole

Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
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Re: New attacks from swift boat veterans found to be lies. [Re: HagbardCeline]
    #2969872 - 08/05/04 10:47 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Tell me again just who it is who is trying to censor the press???? There is even an implied threat of a libel action there. A movie theater owner doesn't want to show F 911 in his theaters and that's censorship????? This fuck thinks he should be president and he does this.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,234
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: New attacks from swift boat veterans found to be lies. [Re: HagbardCeline]
    #2970955 - 08/06/04 05:16 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

This isn't a case of a double standard now is it?



Of course it is.


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
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Registered: 02/09/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: New attacks from swift boat veterans found to be lies. [Re: fft2]
    #2971108 - 08/06/04 09:01 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

i tend to believe the numerous officers that were around Kerry at the time, but then again I don't really care if someone was in the war or not. I mean he was only in Vietnam for 4 months. How does this actually prepare you to run a country anyways?

Look at Kerry's voting record if you want to see how dishonest he is.


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America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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OfflineMushmonkey
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Registered: 09/26/03
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Re: New attacks from swift boat veterans found to be lies. [Re: Innvertigo]
    #2971137 - 08/06/04 09:30 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

The democrats have a long and proud tradition of doing one thing, and throwing a temper tantrum when it comes back to them.

Also, I think they get off on threatening to sue for little to no reason. Some kind of asshole fetish.


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OfflineLearyfan
It's the psychedelic movement!
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Re: New attacks from swift boat veterans found to be lies. [Re: HagbardCeline]
    #2971273 - 08/06/04 10:31 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

I can?t believe Bush people have the audacity to bring up Vietnam.







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Mp3 of the month: Brass Toads - In The Back Of My Mind



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InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Male

Registered: 02/09/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: New attacks from swift boat veterans found to be lies. [Re: Learyfan]
    #2971320 - 08/06/04 10:51 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

those weren't Bush people and wasn't even funded by his campaign. Face it, many people don't like Kerry. It doesn't mean that the are pro-bush or even in his pocket.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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InvisibleVvellum
Stranger

Registered: 05/24/04
Posts: 10,920
Re: New attacks from swift boat veterans found to be lies. [Re: Innvertigo]
    #2971628 - 08/06/04 12:35 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

those weren't Bush people and wasn't even funded by his campaign...




Riiight, and John O?Neill never worked for Nixon  :rolleyes:


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InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Male

Registered: 02/09/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: New attacks from swift boat veterans found to be lies. [Re: Vvellum]
    #2971696 - 08/06/04 01:02 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Saying it doesn't make it so....no matter how much you believe it to be. Face it, some people think Kerry is a fraud. Nader doesn't care for Kerry, is he a Bush supporter?


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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Offlinewingnutx
Registered: 09/25/00
Posts: 2,268
Last seen: 6 years, 5 months
Re: New attacks from swift boat veterans found to be lies. [Re: fft2]
    #2971730 - 08/06/04 01:17 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

"none of the men had actually served on the Swift boats that Mr. Kerry commanded."




Many of these men (12 of them, iirc) commanded the other boats in Kerry's squadron. You know, the same group that was in that picture that Kerry used as a campaign prop until the majority of them demanded that he quit using them without permission.

I think these guys would never have even come forward if not for that picture.

How would you like to find that your picture was being touted as that of a Bush supporter? Might make you kinda mad.

Anyway, the matter of them not being on the same boat is silly. These boats usually operated in groups, similar to a formation of fighter planes. These guys were the other officers in the formation. They know better than anybody who's boat they want watching their 6, and which ones they don't.

Funny how this one 527 ad is such a controversy, while the MoveOn ads were last-page news.


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Invisibleafoaf
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Re: New attacks from swift boat veterans found to be lies. [Re: fft2]
    #2971755 - 08/06/04 01:28 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

things is gettin dirtay!


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All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.


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InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
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Registered: 02/09/01
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Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: New attacks from swift boat veterans found to be lies. [Re: afoaf]
    #2971770 - 08/06/04 01:33 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

hey at least it makes it more enjoyable for me.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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OfflineJesusChrist
Son Of God
Registered: 02/19/04
Posts: 1,459
Last seen: 5 years, 3 months
Re: New attacks from swift boat veterans found to be lies. [Re: Innvertigo]
    #2972786 - 08/06/04 06:49 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Innvertigo said:
I mean he was only in Vietnam for 4 months. How does this actually prepare you to run a country anyways?

Look at Kerry's voting record if you want to see how dishonest he is.




WOO HOO!


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Tastes just like chicken


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Invisiblevampirism
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Registered: 03/14/04
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Re: New attacks from swift boat veterans found to be lies. [Re: JesusChrist]
    #2972803 - 08/06/04 06:52 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

You know, voting records might mean something if not for pork barrel legislation


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OfflineJesusChrist
Son Of God
Registered: 02/19/04
Posts: 1,459
Last seen: 5 years, 3 months
Re: New attacks from swift boat veterans found to be lies. [Re: vampirism]
    #2972850 - 08/06/04 07:04 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

You make a very valid point and it can't be dismissed. Voting against the clean water bill doesn't mean that you are against clean water at all. It could just mean that it is a bad bill.

My point isn't so much the pork barrel as Kerry's politics. He made a big issue out of four months in Nam when he was a kid. He has spent the rest of his adult life in politics. You would think he would have some great achievements to tout to the American people, but he completely ignored his public policy. I think the Swift boat thing is a distraction from the real issue, and that is why I gave Innvertigo a whole hearted WOO HOO!


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Tastes just like chicken


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