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OfflineTheOneYouKnow
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Re: The War Record of Good Ole John "WarHero" Kerry [Re: silversoul7]
    #2408262 - 03/08/04 07:28 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

silversoul7 said:
Quote:

You reek of ignorance and hypocrisy.



You say that as if I was the one putting up such a fuss over civilian casualties.




godless commie gooks or pagan sand niggers, their deaths don't really matter to me that much





IM KIDDING!!!!!!! I just put that to get a rise out of you ;-) The point is that you ,like the media, become upset and critical about one candidates war record but you couldn't care less about anothers equally (or more) questional war record. Gosh, neither of those are a liberal bias, right?




Again, Note: I'm kidding about that racist comment. Take a friggin joke


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: The War Record of Good Ole John "WarHero" Kerry [Re: TheOneYouKnow]
    #2408310 - 03/08/04 07:39 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

IM KIDDING!!!!!!! I just put that to get a rise out of you ;-) The point is that you ,like the media, become upset and critical about one candidates war record but you couldn't care less about anothers equally (or more) questional war record. Gosh, neither of those are a liberal bias, right?



Liberal compared to what? First of all, Kerry actually saw combat, unlike Bush who mysteriously vanished from his job of guarding Texas from the Viet Cong. The fact that Kerry fought in Vietnam is not under question. Bush's claim that he showed up for duty, on the other hand, is highly questionable.

Second, I don't remember a lot of mainstream American media covering the civilian casualties. If I remember correctly, most of the articles about that that were posted here were from sources like the Guardian or BBC.

Third, while the killing of civilians was certainly not a very good thing, many soldiers in Vietnam did it, often under direct orders from their superiors. In Vietnam, it was hard to tell who was your enemy. Many people who seemed like civilians actually were members of the Viet Cong. I'm not saying it's right, but I'm saying it's understandable.

Fourth, it's not that I'm upset about Bush's war record per se. Just the hypocrisy of it in light of his military actions as president, as well as the fact that he's obviously lying about it.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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InvisibleEvolving
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Re: The War Record of Good Ole John "WarHero" Kerry [Re: TheOneYouKnow]
    #2408318 - 03/08/04 07:41 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

TheOneYouKnow said:
6) Will you send me a vial of your tears when Bush gets re-elected? I'd love to drink them and taste the sweet, sweet taste of victory once again.



So you like the gutting of the Bill of Rights?  So you like amnesty for illegal aliens (Orwellian doublespeak of the current administration not withstanding)?  So you like the largest increase in entitlement programs since Lyndon Johnson?  So you like a president who has not vetoed one single spending bill?  So you like a massive increase in debt which will burden us all?  So you like having the government buy off religious organizations so that they will more easily dance to the federal tune (George W. Bush's Faith-Based and Community Initiative)?  So you like the U.S. being the world's policeman?  So you like the largest growth in Federal government power in your lifetime?

You don't call yourself a 'conservative' or a 'libertarian,' do you?


Oh, as far as Kerry's war record goes... He has demonstrated that he has more balls than George W. Bush.  If you think about it though, that really isn't saying much for Kerry. :wink:


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To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


Edited by Evolving (03/08/04 07:53 PM)


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Invisibleafoaf
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Re: The War Record of Good Ole John "WarHero" Kerry [Re: TheOneYouKnow]
    #2408410 - 03/08/04 08:07 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

just so you don't continue making yourself look
COMPLETELY uninformed...

Bush didn't ditch out of National Guard service to
run for office. He did it to work on one of his dad's
crony's campaigns.

There's a big difference.

Plus, like the other poster asked and you conveniently
ignored, where does it say that one must be layed up
for any period of time to receive a purple heart? what's
to say he didn't get shot in the toe, bandaged and sent
back out? Why is Kerry's non-disclosure so offensive and
Bush's not (military service, energy committee minutes,
9/11 probe interviews)

Your blind hatred once again cripples any semblance of
valid argument that you may have had.


--------------------
All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.


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OfflineHagbardCeline
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Re: The War Record of Good Ole John "WarHero" Kerry [Re: silversoul7]
    #2408546 - 03/08/04 08:53 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

And was Mr. Kerry a gung-ho soldier?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2004/03/07/wkerr07.xml&sSheet=/portal/2004/03/07/ixportaltop.html


Revealed: how 'war hero' Kerry tried to put off Vietnam military duty
By Charles Laurence in New York
(Filed: 07/03/2004)


Senator John Kerry, the presumed Democratic presidential candidate who is trading on his Vietnam war record to campaign against President George W Bush, tried to defer his military service for a year, according to a newly rediscovered article in a Harvard University newspaper.


Senator Kerry on the campaign trail in Iowa
He wrote to his local recruitment board seeking permission to spend a further 12 months studying in Paris, after completing his degree course at Yale University in the mid-1960s.

The revelation appears to undercut Sen Kerry's carefully-cultivated image as a man who willingly served his country in a dangerous war - in supposed contrast to President Bush, who served in the Texas National Guard and thus avoided being sent to Vietnam.

The Harvard Crimson newspaper followed a youthful Mr Kerry in Boston as he campaigned for Congress for the first time in 1970. In the course of a lengthy article, "John Kerry: A Navy Dove Runs for Congress", published on February 18, the paper reported: "When he approached his draft board for permission to study for a year in Paris, the draft board refused and Kerry decided to enlist in the Navy."

Samuel Goldhaber, the article's author who is now a cardiologist attached to the Harvard School of Medicine, spent 11 hours trailing Mr Kerry and still remembers that the subject of the Paris deferment came up during long conversations about Vietnam.

"I stand by my story," he told The Telegraph. "It was a long time ago, and I was 19 at the time, so it is hard to remember every detail. But I do know this: at no point did Kerry contact either me or the Crimson to dispute anything I had written."

Sen Kerry's campaign headquarters in Washington refused an opportunity to deny the report. Despite repeated telephone calls from The Telegraph, a spokesman refused to comment. Another Democrat official said merely: "In Vietnam, John Kerry proved his patriotism beyond question. Everyone knows that."

A senior Republican strategist, who asked not to be named, said: "I've not heard this before. This undercuts Kerry's complaints about Bush and it continues to pose questions as to his credibility among ordinary Vietnam veterans."

He said it would fuel concerns over the way Sen Kerry made a name for himself by leading anti-war protests in Washington and Boston in the late 1960s and early 1970s after he had completed his service in the US Navy, even while his former comrades continued to fight and die.

A newly-published biography of Sen Kerry by Douglas Brinkley, A Tour of Duty, makes no mention of the requested deferment or planned year in Paris. At the time, it was still unclear just how long America would remain in Vietnam, and it might have seemed that a year's deferral of service could render enlistment unnecessary.

According to the Democratic Party's version of Sen Kerry's military history, he joined the Reserve Officer Training Corps at Harvard through eagerness to do his duty, and sailed with the Navy for combat as soon as he graduated in 1966.

Sen Kerry won a gallantry medal for his service as a gunboat captain on the Mekong Delta, and was honorably discharged with three "purple heart" medals after sustaining three wounds. He has consistently presented himself as a leader who argued against the war only after fulfilling his duty in the field. Supporters argue that his war record makes him a more trustworthy leader than President Bush, who served sporadically in the National Guard at home.

"This means that Kerry didn't jump into all that heroic service until he was pushed, and it is a very nice piece of information," said Lucianne Goldberg, a prominent Republican campaigner.

Republican strategists for President Bush were already investigating Sen Kerry's record of three wounds sustained in Vietnam. "We find that he had only one day off sick - with three wounds? What exactly were these wounds?" she asked.

Mr Goldhaber recalled that, during a day spent with Sen Kerry and one assistant during his congressional campaign, he had described his involvement, service and decision to oppose the war in great detail.

"I am not at all surprised that he wants to be president, because he exuded ambition from the word go," said Dr Goldhaber. "At the time, the idea that he tried to persuade the draft board to let him spend a year in Paris was just a detail."

A spokesman for the Bush-Cheney re-election campaign declined to comment.


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I keep it real because I think it is important that a highly esteemed individual such as myself keep it real lest they experience the dreaded spontaneous non-existance of no longer keeping it real. - Hagbard Celine


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: The War Record of Good Ole John "WarHero" Kerry [Re: HagbardCeline]
    #2408556 - 03/08/04 08:56 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

So he tried to put off his military service for a year in order to go to school. What's wrong with that? As the article shows, he complied with the draft board when they refused his request. And personally, I don't want a president who's a gung-ho soldier. I want a president who's seen the horrors of war first-hand, and will be very cautious about waging future wars.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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OfflineLearyfanS
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Re: The War Record of Good Ole John "WarHero" Kerry [Re: silversoul7]
    #2408706 - 03/08/04 09:44 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

I don't want a president who's a gung-ho soldier. I want a president who's seen the horrors of war first-hand, and will be very cautious about waging future wars.




Zactly






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--------------------------------


Mp3 of the month: The Chords - Ghost Power



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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: The War Record of Good Ole John "WarHero" Kerry [Re: Learyfan]
    #2408750 - 03/08/04 09:57 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

If any of this shit here about Kerry is true, and I mean ANY, he is the dream candidate to oppose Bush. He will be absolute cannon fodder. I sincerely doubt that, once they get going, the Republicans will hold this until the weekend before the election (see Gore in re: Bush's DUI). He'll make McGovern look like a contender.


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OfflineHagbardCeline
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Re: The War Record of Good Ole John "WarHero" Kerry [Re: silversoul7]
    #2408932 - 03/08/04 10:51 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

The point is that since it was unclear how long we would be in Vietnam, a year's deferment may have made service unnecessary. According to the version he and his supporters have put forth, he was waiting to sign up as soon as he graduated.

It's just another piece in his record of mis-representation, and indecisiveness.

As for the preference for combat duty weighing on the decision for war, while it may seem desirable on the surface, it seems to actually make little difference in history.

Firstly, under general circumstances, as you know, the president doesn't declare war. And of those of the last 50 or so years, the ones that did lead us in times of war, still had combat service.

And in my view, in Kerry's case, I would say his service makes him less desirable as a president. He is obviously a pacifest, and coupled with his indecisivenes, seems like a recipe for disaster.


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I keep it real because I think it is important that a highly esteemed individual such as myself keep it real lest they experience the dreaded spontaneous non-existance of no longer keeping it real. - Hagbard Celine


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: The War Record of Good Ole John "WarHero" Kerry [Re: HagbardCeline]
    #2408961 - 03/08/04 11:01 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

And in my view, in Kerry's case, I would say his service makes him less desirable as a president. He is obviously a pacifest, and coupled with his indecisivenes, seems like a recipe for disaster.



Pacifism is a recipe for disaster? Maybe if we were invaded, but when's the last time that happened?


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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OfflineLearyfanS
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Re: The War Record of Good Ole John "WarHero" Kerry [Re: HagbardCeline]
    #2408974 - 03/08/04 11:05 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

So someone who hasn't been in combat is better suited to lead our country than someone who has.

Ok.




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--------------------------------


Mp3 of the month: The Chords - Ghost Power



Edited by Learyfan (03/08/04 11:51 PM)


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OfflineHagbardCeline
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Re: The War Record of Good Ole John "WarHero" Kerry [Re: silversoul7]
    #2409055 - 03/08/04 11:22 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

I don't think that pacifism itself is a recipe for disaster, I think that those who feel that way, in addition to obviously having the right, are needed in a free society, if for nothing but balance. Just as I think that both a "left" and "right" wing are needed.

But it is his particular record, and his pacifism, that I find frightening. He isn't a leader period. He has no core values. He does whatever he thinks will get him support, changing his opion on a whim.


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I keep it real because I think it is important that a highly esteemed individual such as myself keep it real lest they experience the dreaded spontaneous non-existance of no longer keeping it real. - Hagbard Celine


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Re: The War Record of Good Ole John "WarHero" Kerry [Re: HagbardCeline]
    #2409085 - 03/08/04 11:29 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

how do you know he has no core values?

how do you know he's not a leader?

what makes you think bush is a better leader
or has a better set of core values considering
his demonstrable behavior the past 3 1/2 years?

bush: preyed on 9/11 for political gain, sold
arbusto stock days before it knowingly went
belly up, ditched vietnam and didn't complete
NG service, has mislead the US for 3 years on
iraq and still refuses to be thoroughly interviewed
by the 9/11 commission, a group who's job he
vehemently opposed.

kerry did what again? came back from vietnam
and spoke out against the war?

and just a quick news flash for you, bro, EVERY
politician will do whatever they think will get them
support, changing their opinion on a whim.

that's not a republican/democrat thing, that's american
politics.


--------------------
All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: The War Record of Good Ole John "WarHero" Kerry [Re: HagbardCeline]
    #2409088 - 03/08/04 11:29 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

But it is his particular record, and his pacifism, that I find frightening. He isn't a leader period. He has no core values. He does whatever he thinks will get him support, changing his opion on a whim.



You'd be surprised how many highly respected presidents were like that. FDR is one of them.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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OfflineHagbardCeline
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Re: The War Record of Good Ole John "WarHero" Kerry [Re: Learyfan]
    #2409094 - 03/08/04 11:30 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Where did I say that?

I think that combat experience shouldn't be viewed as a virtue for presidency. While I accept it as a valid, honorable and worthy experience, it doesn't make someone better suited to lead a country. War or not.


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I keep it real because I think it is important that a highly esteemed individual such as myself keep it real lest they experience the dreaded spontaneous non-existance of no longer keeping it real. - Hagbard Celine


Edited by HagbardCeline (03/09/04 01:13 AM)


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OfflineHagbardCeline
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Re: The War Record of Good Ole John "WarHero" Kerry [Re: silversoul7]
    #2409107 - 03/08/04 11:32 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

No argument from me.


--------------------
I keep it real because I think it is important that a highly esteemed individual such as myself keep it real lest they experience the dreaded spontaneous non-existance of no longer keeping it real. - Hagbard Celine


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OfflineLearyfanS
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Re: The War Record of Good Ole John "WarHero" Kerry [Re: HagbardCeline]
    #2409209 - 03/08/04 11:57 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Well you may not have even understood what I was saying because I fucked up again and typed the same word twice when I was trying to type a word and then it's opposite. I swear I wasn't fucked up when I made those two mistakes. I blame it on that Shroomery downtime.




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--------------------------------


Mp3 of the month: The Chords - Ghost Power



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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: The War Record of Good Ole John "WarHero" Kerry [Re: Learyfan]
    #2409990 - 03/09/04 05:15 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Learyfan knew!


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Re: The War Record of Good Ole John "WarHero" Kerry [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2410222 - 03/09/04 09:25 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Learyfan lied.


--------------------
All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.


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OfflineStrumpling
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Re: The War Record of Good Ole John "WarHero" Kerry [Re: TheOneYouKnow]
    #2410379 - 03/09/04 10:33 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

"Can you go one minute without attacking bush?"

Can Bush go one term without attacking another country?


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Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE


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