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OfflineTheOneYouKnow
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The War Record of Good Ole John "WarHero" Kerry
    #2407734 - 03/08/04 05:44 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)


http://daily.nysun.com/Repository/getFil...2/27&ID=Ar00800
Quote:



Setting Straight Kerry?s War Record

By THOMAS LIPSCOMB Mr. Lipscomb, the founder of Times Books, was the publisher of Admiral Zumwalt?s best-selling book, ?On Watch.?

Senator Kerry recently wrote a letter to President Bush complaining, ?You and your campaign have initiated a widespread attack on my service in Vietnam, my decision to speak out to end that war,? and warning, ?I will not sit back and allow my patriotism to be challenged.?

In the absence of any evidence from Mr. Kerry of an attack from the Bush campaign, Mr. Kerry seems to have originated his own doctrine of ?pre-emption.? How valid are his concerns?

No one denies Mr. Kerry?s four bemedaled months in ?Swiftboats? or his seven-months? service as an electrical officer on board the USS Gridley, during its cruises back and forth to California, or even his months as an admiral?s aide in Brooklyn, before he was able get out of the Navy six months early to run for office.




Gosh, bush gets special treatment to run for office, and hes lambasted for it. I wonder why the media hasn't caught wind of this (Read: Massive liberal media conspirac)
Quote:


Taking a look at Mr. Kerry?s much-promoted Vietnam service, his military record was, indeed, remarkable in many ways. Last week, the former assistant secretary of defense and Fletcher School of Diplomacy professor,W. Scott Thompson, recalled a conversation with the late Admiral Elmo R. Zumwalt Jr. that clearly had a slightly different take on Mr. Kerry?s recollection of their discussions:

?[T]he fabled and distinguished chief of naval operations,Admiral Elmo Zumwalt,told me ? 30 years ago when he was still CNO ?that during his own command of U.S. naval forces in Vietnam,just prior to his anointment as CNO, young Kerry had created great problems for him and the other top brass,by killing so many non-combatant civilians and going after other non-military targets.?We had virtually to straitjacket him to keep him under control,? the admiral said. ?Bud? Zumwalt got it right when he assessed Kerry as having large ambitions ? but promised that his career in Vietnam would haunt him if he were ever on the national stage.? And this statement was made despite the fact Zumwalt had personally pinned a Silver Star on Mr. Kerry.

Mr. Kerry was assigned to Swiftboat 44 on December 1, 1968. Within 24 hours, he had his first Purple Heart. Mr. Kerry accumulated three Purple Hearts in four months with not even a day of duty lost from wounds, according to his training officer. It?s a pity one cannot read his Purple Heart medical treatment reports which have been withheld from the public. The only person preventing their release is Mr. Kerry.




Gee, FOUR Purple Hearts and never missed a day?I wonder whats in those medical records? Why would someone who is pushing against Bush's war record not unseal his own? Is it because his word is the shit from a male bovine animal?
Quote:


By his own admission during those four months, Mr. Kerry continually kept ramming his Swiftboat onto an enemy-held shore on assorted occasions alone and with a few men, killing civilians and even a wounded enemy soldier. One can begin to appreciate Zumwalt?s problem with Mr. Kerry as commander of an unarmored craft dependent upon speed of maneuver to keep it and its crew from being shot to pieces.

Mr. Kerry now refers to those civilian deaths as ?accidents of war.?And within four days of his third Purple Heart, Mr. Kerry applied to take advantage of a technicality which allowed him to request immediate transfer to a stateside post.

Once back in the States, Mr. Kerry joined ?the struggle for our veterans,? as he called it last week in Atlanta, by joining a scruffy organization called the Vietnam Veterans Against the War. The VVAW?s executive director, Al Hubbard, supposedly a former Air Force captain wounded in Vietnam, quickly appointed Mr. Kerry to the executive committee.




Hey JKerry, your attempt at being a savage murderer of non-combatants didn't work at making you a war hero so you could win votes like you planned, now what will you do? Oh, do the popular thing and PROTEST the war, great!
Quote:


Mr. Kerry participated with the VVAW at agitprop rallies such as Valley Forge and the ?Winter Soldier? guerrilla theater atrocity trials in Detroit, finally testifying in April 1971 before the Senate as an authority on the war crimes his fellow American servicemen had committed in Vietnam.

Outside of his own ?accidents of war,? there is no evidence that Mr. Kerry had then or has now the least idea what may or may not have been the realities of ground combat. However, he had no problem reeling off for the Senate a series of unproven, secondhand allegations that would have been perfectly at home at the Nuremberg trials indicting his fellow veterans.

Mr. Kerry stated there were ?war crimes committed in Southeast Asia...not isolated incidents but crimes committed on a day-today basis with the full awareness of officers at all levels of command.They relived the absolute horror of what this country, in a sense, made them do.?Then Mr. Kerry got specific:

?They had personally raped, cut off ears, cut off heads, taped wires from portable telephones to human genitals and turned up the power, cut off limbs, blown up bodies, randomly shot at civilians, razed villages in fashion reminiscent of Genghis Khan, shot cattle and dogs for fun, poisoned food stocks, and generally ravaged the countryside of South Vietnam...we are more guilty than any other body of violations of those Geneva Conventions; in the use of free-fire zones, harassment interdiction fire, search-and-destroy missions,the bombings,the torture of prisoners, all accepted policy by many units in South Vietnam.?

In other words, My Lai was just another day in the life of the Vietnam War.

This wasn?t a one-time occasion. The VVAW had been peddling this line from the day Mr. Kerry joined them and had been publishing charges like this for the previous two years. Mr. Kerry repeated them on ?Meet the Press? with Al Hubbard, who was found to be a total fraud and who never served in Vietnam, much less was wounded. However, Mr. Kerry has never renounced the charges he made.

Recently, his fellow VVAW supporter, Jane Fonda, has tried to minimize a potentially damaging picture of him a few rows behind her at the three-day VVAW Valley Forge rally in September 1970.And many members of the press fell for the line that it was accidental or coincidental,including Fox?s Chris Wallace and ABC?s Tim Russert.

However, there were only eight or nine speakers that day, including Donald Sutherland, Mark Lane, Bella Abzug, and Ms. Fonda. And far from being a casual audience member, Mr. Kerry, an executive committee member, not Ms. Fonda, was the lead speaker.

Ms. Fonda had been funding VVAW events since before Mr. Kerry joined its executive committee. At Valley Forge, Ms. Fonda said: ??My Lai was not an isolated incident but rather a way of life for many of our military.?

Their appearance together in that picture may be a lot of things, but it was not a coincidence.

Mr. Kerry has already confessed his complicity in killing civilians as ?accidents of war.?However, he has offered a classic Nuremberg defense that this was not only a commonplace occurrence throughout the Vietnam War, but he was carrying out a policy ?with the full awareness of officers at all levels of command.?

His commander of naval operations in Vietnam, who specifically designed the mission that Mr. Kerry and the other Swiftboat commanders executed, Admiral Zumwalt, clearly disagreed. An examination of the truth behind this disagreement is not an attack on Mr. Kerry. It is a matter of vital historical interest.





Personally, if you don't want to serve in a war, thats fine. If you do want to serve, but want to remain stateside in a non-combatant position, thats fine. If you serve questionably, refuse to open your records detailing the events that lead to FOUR Purple Hearts and not a single missed day of duty, then you get special permissionto leave the war and come back to run for office and oyu begin protesting the war, you certaintly don't have very strong ground to stand on for the attacks on Bush. As much as I despise Bill Clinton, I don't dislike him for his decision during the Vietnam war. IF you dont' want t oserve, we shouldn't make you. The singular point of this article is to show that ole Tougher Than Nails KErry is, as most politicans are, totally hypocritical and full of shit.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: The War Record of Good Ole John "WarHero" Kerry [Re: TheOneYouKnow]
    #2407817 - 03/08/04 06:04 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

If no one doubts that Kerry never missed a day, then why should he have to open his records?


--------------------


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Offlined33p
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Re: The War Record of Good Ole John "WarHero" Kerry [Re: silversoul7]
    #2407858 - 03/08/04 06:13 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

They are asking what kind of wound causes someone to miss no combat time. These purple hearts could have been awarded because kerry stubed his toe and didn't feel like walking for a bit.

But if its true that some pretty bad shit.


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OfflineStrumpling
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Re: The War Record of Good Ole John "WarHero" Kerry [Re: TheOneYouKnow]
    #2407860 - 03/08/04 06:13 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

have you read about Bush' amazing military record? Gee what a fucking champion HE is..

http://www.bushflash.com/topgun.html


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OfflineTheOneYouKnow
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Re: The War Record of Good Ole John "WarHero" Kerry [Re: silversoul7]
    #2407873 - 03/08/04 06:16 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

silversoul7 said:
If no one doubts that Kerry never missed a day, then why should he have to open his records?





Ugh, geez, if you'd do some research, that'd be a hoot-nanny fan-damn-tastic time.

From http://www.purpleheart.org/explanation.htm ;
Quote:


The PURPLE HEART is awarded to members of the armed forces of the U.S. who are wounded by an instrument of war in the hands of the enemy and posthumously to the next of kin in the name of those who are killed in action or die of wounds received in action. It is specifically a combat decoration.




So, if he was injured by an enemy, four times!, why wasn't he missing time? My father was in 'Nam and he got a PH, he was in a bed for 6 weeks while surgeons took out piece after piece of shrapnel from his legs. I personally would just like Mr War Hero who was questioning Bush (for doing the same thing the Kerry did) to let us all see the reason he got his purple hearts.


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OfflineTheOneYouKnow
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Re: The War Record of Good Ole John "WarHero" Kerry [Re: Strumpling]
    #2407892 - 03/08/04 06:20 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Strumpling said:
have you read about Bush' amazing military record? Gee what a fucking champion HE is..

http://www.bushflash.com/topgun.html





Can you go one minute without attacking bush? The point was that the person who launched te attack on bushes war record has a not-so-impeccable record himself. Geez, if you morons aren't talking about bush and cheney clubbing baby seals to drown them in the oil we stole from Iraq, you can't seem to talk at all.


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OfflineLearyfanS
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Re: The War Record of Good Ole John "WarHero" Kerry [Re: TheOneYouKnow]
    #2407905 - 03/08/04 06:22 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Bush is avoiding the inquiry into 9-11 and you're worried about why Kerry didn't miss time during his military service? Where's your priorities buddy?

You claim that people on this board are "blindly" anti-Bush, but you're obviously every bit as "blindly" pro-Bush.




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Mp3 of the month: The Chords - Ghost Power



Edited by Learyfan (03/08/04 06:27 PM)


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: The War Record of Good Ole John "WarHero" Kerry [Re: TheOneYouKnow]
    #2407909 - 03/08/04 06:23 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Ok, but even if he didn't deserve any of those Purple Hearts, compare his military record to Bush's and he still comes out way on top.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: The War Record of Good Ole John "WarHero" Kerry [Re: Learyfan]
    #2407915 - 03/08/04 06:24 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

You claim that people on this board are "blindly" pro-Bush, but you're obviously every bit as "blindly" pro-Bush.




Are you sure that sentence came out the way you intended it to?


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineLearyfanS
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Re: The War Record of Good Ole John "WarHero" Kerry [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2407928 - 03/08/04 06:27 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Awe, oops.

:nut:




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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: The War Record of Good Ole John "WarHero" Kerry [Re: Learyfan]
    #2407993 - 03/08/04 06:38 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

A simple Freudian slip. We understand.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineLearyfanS
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Re: The War Record of Good Ole John "WarHero" Kerry [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2408018 - 03/08/04 06:42 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

:blush:

That means that underneath it all i?m actually pro Bush! :eek:







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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: The War Record of Good Ole John "WarHero" Kerry [Re: Learyfan]
    #2408031 - 03/08/04 06:44 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Yup. I know what it means.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: The War Record of Good Ole John "WarHero" Kerry [Re: Learyfan]
    #2408081 - 03/08/04 06:51 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Learyfan said:
:blush:

That means that underneath it all i?m actually pro Bush! :eek:





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OfflineLearyfanS
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Re: The War Record of Good Ole John "WarHero" Kerry [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2408133 - 03/08/04 07:03 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

I've been living a fucking LIE.

:nonono:





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Re: The War Record of Good Ole John "WarHero" Kerry [Re: Learyfan]
    #2408142 - 03/08/04 07:05 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

We won't hold it against you. We all must grow up sometime. At least it happened to you while you were young.

:kiss:


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineEkstaza
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Re: The War Record of Good Ole John "WarHero" Kerry [Re: TheOneYouKnow]
    #2408149 - 03/08/04 07:06 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

TheOneYouKnow said:
Can you go one minute without attacking bush? The point was that the person who launched te attack on bushes war record has a not-so-impeccable record himself.




What's so not-so-impeccable about it? He went to Nam, he fought in Nam, he came back from Nam. In that definition of the Purple Heart, it didn't say that you had to be near death to receive it. It didn't even say that you had to be removed from duty for any given amount of time at all.


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OfflineTheOneYouKnow
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Re: The War Record of Good Ole John "WarHero" Kerry [Re: silversoul7]
    #2408224 - 03/08/04 07:21 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

silversoul7 said:
Ok, but even if he didn't deserve any of those Purple Hearts, compare his military record to Bush's and he still comes out way on top.




Well, since neither ofthem have had their total SRB"s released, that'd be hard to do.

John Kerry admitted to killing civilians, personally. It seems to me that when Bush's troops were bombing enemy warriors who hide behind children, killing innocents was a bad thing. But ole Kerry did it pesonally? bah, bush watns oil! bush bush halliburton! bush bush bush!


You reek of ignorance and hypocrisy.


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OfflineTheOneYouKnow
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Re: The War Record of Good Ole John "WarHero" Kerry [Re: Learyfan]
    #2408246 - 03/08/04 07:25 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Learyfan said:






Addressing the points on your propaganda / shitpaper-rag.

1) John Kerry received more metals in his 4 months of killing civilians than my father, a REAL soldier, ever got. The majority of his medals are only awarded to long time service-men. However, Kerry manage to finagle his way into having them. Wonder why he isn?t releasing the records of why?

2) Kerry used the same "Excuse" that bush did, that is, running for office, to leave his combat position in Vietnam. Again, bush does it and it?s horrific and AWOL, KEry does it, and eh, who cares?

3) How many innocent civilians did Bush machinegun when he was in Alabama?

4) Why doesn?t the article mention that Kerry got out of the service early so he could run for office?

5) Why doesn?t ANYONE address the fact that deserters were PUNISHED at the time of the vietnam war, and bush was neverpunished ? being AWOL for 18 fucking months is a GIGANTIC deal. It is a spefic military charge. I?m sure that none of the daddy-bought-me-an-suv-to-drive-to-our-peace-protest cowards in here has ever sered in the military, so I?m not expecting you to know this, but now htat you do, back it up.


6) Will you send me a vial of your tears when Bush gets re-elected? I?d love to drink them and taste the sweet, sweet taste of victory once again.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: The War Record of Good Ole John "WarHero" Kerry [Re: TheOneYouKnow]
    #2408250 - 03/08/04 07:26 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

You reek of ignorance and hypocrisy.



You say that as if I was the one putting up such a fuss over civilian casualties.


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OfflineTheOneYouKnow
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Re: The War Record of Good Ole John "WarHero" Kerry [Re: silversoul7]
    #2408262 - 03/08/04 07:28 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

silversoul7 said:
Quote:

You reek of ignorance and hypocrisy.



You say that as if I was the one putting up such a fuss over civilian casualties.




godless commie gooks or pagan sand niggers, their deaths don't really matter to me that much





IM KIDDING!!!!!!! I just put that to get a rise out of you ;-) The point is that you ,like the media, become upset and critical about one candidates war record but you couldn't care less about anothers equally (or more) questional war record. Gosh, neither of those are a liberal bias, right?




Again, Note: I'm kidding about that racist comment. Take a friggin joke


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: The War Record of Good Ole John "WarHero" Kerry [Re: TheOneYouKnow]
    #2408310 - 03/08/04 07:39 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

IM KIDDING!!!!!!! I just put that to get a rise out of you ;-) The point is that you ,like the media, become upset and critical about one candidates war record but you couldn't care less about anothers equally (or more) questional war record. Gosh, neither of those are a liberal bias, right?



Liberal compared to what? First of all, Kerry actually saw combat, unlike Bush who mysteriously vanished from his job of guarding Texas from the Viet Cong. The fact that Kerry fought in Vietnam is not under question. Bush's claim that he showed up for duty, on the other hand, is highly questionable.

Second, I don't remember a lot of mainstream American media covering the civilian casualties. If I remember correctly, most of the articles about that that were posted here were from sources like the Guardian or BBC.

Third, while the killing of civilians was certainly not a very good thing, many soldiers in Vietnam did it, often under direct orders from their superiors. In Vietnam, it was hard to tell who was your enemy. Many people who seemed like civilians actually were members of the Viet Cong. I'm not saying it's right, but I'm saying it's understandable.

Fourth, it's not that I'm upset about Bush's war record per se. Just the hypocrisy of it in light of his military actions as president, as well as the fact that he's obviously lying about it.


--------------------


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Re: The War Record of Good Ole John "WarHero" Kerry [Re: TheOneYouKnow]
    #2408318 - 03/08/04 07:41 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

TheOneYouKnow said:
6) Will you send me a vial of your tears when Bush gets re-elected? I'd love to drink them and taste the sweet, sweet taste of victory once again.



So you like the gutting of the Bill of Rights?  So you like amnesty for illegal aliens (Orwellian doublespeak of the current administration not withstanding)?  So you like the largest increase in entitlement programs since Lyndon Johnson?  So you like a president who has not vetoed one single spending bill?  So you like a massive increase in debt which will burden us all?  So you like having the government buy off religious organizations so that they will more easily dance to the federal tune (George W. Bush's Faith-Based and Community Initiative)?  So you like the U.S. being the world's policeman?  So you like the largest growth in Federal government power in your lifetime?

You don't call yourself a 'conservative' or a 'libertarian,' do you?


Oh, as far as Kerry's war record goes... He has demonstrated that he has more balls than George W. Bush.  If you think about it though, that really isn't saying much for Kerry. :wink:


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To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


Edited by Evolving (03/08/04 07:53 PM)


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Re: The War Record of Good Ole John "WarHero" Kerry [Re: TheOneYouKnow]
    #2408410 - 03/08/04 08:07 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

just so you don't continue making yourself look
COMPLETELY uninformed...

Bush didn't ditch out of National Guard service to
run for office. He did it to work on one of his dad's
crony's campaigns.

There's a big difference.

Plus, like the other poster asked and you conveniently
ignored, where does it say that one must be layed up
for any period of time to receive a purple heart? what's
to say he didn't get shot in the toe, bandaged and sent
back out? Why is Kerry's non-disclosure so offensive and
Bush's not (military service, energy committee minutes,
9/11 probe interviews)

Your blind hatred once again cripples any semblance of
valid argument that you may have had.


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Re: The War Record of Good Ole John "WarHero" Kerry [Re: silversoul7]
    #2408546 - 03/08/04 08:53 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

And was Mr. Kerry a gung-ho soldier?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2004/03/07/wkerr07.xml&sSheet=/portal/2004/03/07/ixportaltop.html


Revealed: how 'war hero' Kerry tried to put off Vietnam military duty
By Charles Laurence in New York
(Filed: 07/03/2004)


Senator John Kerry, the presumed Democratic presidential candidate who is trading on his Vietnam war record to campaign against President George W Bush, tried to defer his military service for a year, according to a newly rediscovered article in a Harvard University newspaper.


Senator Kerry on the campaign trail in Iowa
He wrote to his local recruitment board seeking permission to spend a further 12 months studying in Paris, after completing his degree course at Yale University in the mid-1960s.

The revelation appears to undercut Sen Kerry's carefully-cultivated image as a man who willingly served his country in a dangerous war - in supposed contrast to President Bush, who served in the Texas National Guard and thus avoided being sent to Vietnam.

The Harvard Crimson newspaper followed a youthful Mr Kerry in Boston as he campaigned for Congress for the first time in 1970. In the course of a lengthy article, "John Kerry: A Navy Dove Runs for Congress", published on February 18, the paper reported: "When he approached his draft board for permission to study for a year in Paris, the draft board refused and Kerry decided to enlist in the Navy."

Samuel Goldhaber, the article's author who is now a cardiologist attached to the Harvard School of Medicine, spent 11 hours trailing Mr Kerry and still remembers that the subject of the Paris deferment came up during long conversations about Vietnam.

"I stand by my story," he told The Telegraph. "It was a long time ago, and I was 19 at the time, so it is hard to remember every detail. But I do know this: at no point did Kerry contact either me or the Crimson to dispute anything I had written."

Sen Kerry's campaign headquarters in Washington refused an opportunity to deny the report. Despite repeated telephone calls from The Telegraph, a spokesman refused to comment. Another Democrat official said merely: "In Vietnam, John Kerry proved his patriotism beyond question. Everyone knows that."

A senior Republican strategist, who asked not to be named, said: "I've not heard this before. This undercuts Kerry's complaints about Bush and it continues to pose questions as to his credibility among ordinary Vietnam veterans."

He said it would fuel concerns over the way Sen Kerry made a name for himself by leading anti-war protests in Washington and Boston in the late 1960s and early 1970s after he had completed his service in the US Navy, even while his former comrades continued to fight and die.

A newly-published biography of Sen Kerry by Douglas Brinkley, A Tour of Duty, makes no mention of the requested deferment or planned year in Paris. At the time, it was still unclear just how long America would remain in Vietnam, and it might have seemed that a year's deferral of service could render enlistment unnecessary.

According to the Democratic Party's version of Sen Kerry's military history, he joined the Reserve Officer Training Corps at Harvard through eagerness to do his duty, and sailed with the Navy for combat as soon as he graduated in 1966.

Sen Kerry won a gallantry medal for his service as a gunboat captain on the Mekong Delta, and was honorably discharged with three "purple heart" medals after sustaining three wounds. He has consistently presented himself as a leader who argued against the war only after fulfilling his duty in the field. Supporters argue that his war record makes him a more trustworthy leader than President Bush, who served sporadically in the National Guard at home.

"This means that Kerry didn't jump into all that heroic service until he was pushed, and it is a very nice piece of information," said Lucianne Goldberg, a prominent Republican campaigner.

Republican strategists for President Bush were already investigating Sen Kerry's record of three wounds sustained in Vietnam. "We find that he had only one day off sick - with three wounds? What exactly were these wounds?" she asked.

Mr Goldhaber recalled that, during a day spent with Sen Kerry and one assistant during his congressional campaign, he had described his involvement, service and decision to oppose the war in great detail.

"I am not at all surprised that he wants to be president, because he exuded ambition from the word go," said Dr Goldhaber. "At the time, the idea that he tried to persuade the draft board to let him spend a year in Paris was just a detail."

A spokesman for the Bush-Cheney re-election campaign declined to comment.


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Re: The War Record of Good Ole John "WarHero" Kerry [Re: HagbardCeline]
    #2408556 - 03/08/04 08:56 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

So he tried to put off his military service for a year in order to go to school. What's wrong with that? As the article shows, he complied with the draft board when they refused his request. And personally, I don't want a president who's a gung-ho soldier. I want a president who's seen the horrors of war first-hand, and will be very cautious about waging future wars.


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Re: The War Record of Good Ole John "WarHero" Kerry [Re: silversoul7]
    #2408706 - 03/08/04 09:44 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

I don't want a president who's a gung-ho soldier. I want a president who's seen the horrors of war first-hand, and will be very cautious about waging future wars.




Zactly






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Re: The War Record of Good Ole John "WarHero" Kerry [Re: Learyfan]
    #2408750 - 03/08/04 09:57 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

If any of this shit here about Kerry is true, and I mean ANY, he is the dream candidate to oppose Bush. He will be absolute cannon fodder. I sincerely doubt that, once they get going, the Republicans will hold this until the weekend before the election (see Gore in re: Bush's DUI). He'll make McGovern look like a contender.


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Re: The War Record of Good Ole John "WarHero" Kerry [Re: silversoul7]
    #2408932 - 03/08/04 10:51 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

The point is that since it was unclear how long we would be in Vietnam, a year's deferment may have made service unnecessary. According to the version he and his supporters have put forth, he was waiting to sign up as soon as he graduated.

It's just another piece in his record of mis-representation, and indecisiveness.

As for the preference for combat duty weighing on the decision for war, while it may seem desirable on the surface, it seems to actually make little difference in history.

Firstly, under general circumstances, as you know, the president doesn't declare war. And of those of the last 50 or so years, the ones that did lead us in times of war, still had combat service.

And in my view, in Kerry's case, I would say his service makes him less desirable as a president. He is obviously a pacifest, and coupled with his indecisivenes, seems like a recipe for disaster.


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Re: The War Record of Good Ole John "WarHero" Kerry [Re: HagbardCeline]
    #2408961 - 03/08/04 11:01 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

And in my view, in Kerry's case, I would say his service makes him less desirable as a president. He is obviously a pacifest, and coupled with his indecisivenes, seems like a recipe for disaster.



Pacifism is a recipe for disaster? Maybe if we were invaded, but when's the last time that happened?


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Re: The War Record of Good Ole John "WarHero" Kerry [Re: HagbardCeline]
    #2408974 - 03/08/04 11:05 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

So someone who hasn't been in combat is better suited to lead our country than someone who has.

Ok.




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Edited by Learyfan (03/08/04 11:51 PM)


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Re: The War Record of Good Ole John "WarHero" Kerry [Re: silversoul7]
    #2409055 - 03/08/04 11:22 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

I don't think that pacifism itself is a recipe for disaster, I think that those who feel that way, in addition to obviously having the right, are needed in a free society, if for nothing but balance. Just as I think that both a "left" and "right" wing are needed.

But it is his particular record, and his pacifism, that I find frightening. He isn't a leader period. He has no core values. He does whatever he thinks will get him support, changing his opion on a whim.


--------------------
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Re: The War Record of Good Ole John "WarHero" Kerry [Re: HagbardCeline]
    #2409085 - 03/08/04 11:29 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

how do you know he has no core values?

how do you know he's not a leader?

what makes you think bush is a better leader
or has a better set of core values considering
his demonstrable behavior the past 3 1/2 years?

bush: preyed on 9/11 for political gain, sold
arbusto stock days before it knowingly went
belly up, ditched vietnam and didn't complete
NG service, has mislead the US for 3 years on
iraq and still refuses to be thoroughly interviewed
by the 9/11 commission, a group who's job he
vehemently opposed.

kerry did what again? came back from vietnam
and spoke out against the war?

and just a quick news flash for you, bro, EVERY
politician will do whatever they think will get them
support, changing their opinion on a whim.

that's not a republican/democrat thing, that's american
politics.


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Re: The War Record of Good Ole John "WarHero" Kerry [Re: HagbardCeline]
    #2409088 - 03/08/04 11:29 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

But it is his particular record, and his pacifism, that I find frightening. He isn't a leader period. He has no core values. He does whatever he thinks will get him support, changing his opion on a whim.



You'd be surprised how many highly respected presidents were like that. FDR is one of them.


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Re: The War Record of Good Ole John "WarHero" Kerry [Re: Learyfan]
    #2409094 - 03/08/04 11:30 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Where did I say that?

I think that combat experience shouldn't be viewed as a virtue for presidency. While I accept it as a valid, honorable and worthy experience, it doesn't make someone better suited to lead a country. War or not.


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I keep it real because I think it is important that a highly esteemed individual such as myself keep it real lest they experience the dreaded spontaneous non-existance of no longer keeping it real. - Hagbard Celine


Edited by HagbardCeline (03/09/04 01:13 AM)


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Re: The War Record of Good Ole John "WarHero" Kerry [Re: silversoul7]
    #2409107 - 03/08/04 11:32 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

No argument from me.


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Re: The War Record of Good Ole John "WarHero" Kerry [Re: HagbardCeline]
    #2409209 - 03/08/04 11:57 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Well you may not have even understood what I was saying because I fucked up again and typed the same word twice when I was trying to type a word and then it's opposite. I swear I wasn't fucked up when I made those two mistakes. I blame it on that Shroomery downtime.




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Re: The War Record of Good Ole John "WarHero" Kerry [Re: Learyfan]
    #2409990 - 03/09/04 05:15 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Learyfan knew!


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Re: The War Record of Good Ole John "WarHero" Kerry [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2410222 - 03/09/04 09:25 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Learyfan lied.


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Re: The War Record of Good Ole John "WarHero" Kerry [Re: TheOneYouKnow]
    #2410379 - 03/09/04 10:33 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

"Can you go one minute without attacking bush?"

Can Bush go one term without attacking another country?


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Re: The War Record of Good Ole John "WarHero" Kerry [Re: Evolving]
    #2420268 - 03/11/04 07:56 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Evolving said:
So you like the gutting of the Bill of Rights?  So you like amnesty for illegal aliens (Orwellian doublespeak of the current administration not withstanding)?  So you like the largest increase in entitlement programs since Lyndon Johnson?  So you like a president who has not vetoed one single spending bill?  So you like a massive increase in debt which will burden us all?  So you like having the government buy off religious organizations so that they will more easily dance to the federal tune (George W. Bush's Faith-Based and Community Initiative)?  So you like the U.S. being the world's policeman?  So you like the largest growth in Federal government power in your lifetime?

You don't call yourself a 'conservative' or a 'libertarian,' do you?




Visual depection needed...

Here is the topic, right here |




and way way way down here, is your comments. | <--.  Off-topic, as it were.
Quote:


Oh, as far as Kerry's war record goes... He has demonstrated that he has more balls than George W. Bush.  If you think about it though, that really isn't saying much for Kerry. :wink:




Ah, finally we come to the topic. The point was that Kerry is a hypocrit, as are all of you for not caring about it.


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Re: The War Record of Good Ole John "WarHero" Kerry [Re: TheOneYouKnow]
    #2420389 - 03/11/04 08:33 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

I care that Kerry is a hypocrite. I will not vote for him nor will I vote for that piece of shit, Bush. Of course, it doesn't seem to faze you one bit that Bush is a hypocrite and is not the least bit concerned about conservative principles or upholding the constitution.


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Re: The War Record of Good Ole John "WarHero" Kerry [Re: Evolving]
    #2420430 - 03/11/04 08:44 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

I'm not sure if I'll even vote.  If oyu search my posts, I'm sure you'll find phrases like "all politicans are hypocrits", or "All polticans are full of shit".  If I vote, i'll vote for bush, because hes the hypocritical piece of shit that I like most. or, most correctly, that i dislike the least.

also, I want to laugh at my liberla friends for four more years :smile:


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Re: The War Record of Good Ole John "WarHero" Kerry [Re: TheOneYouKnow]
    #2421784 - 03/12/04 02:18 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

TheOneYouKnow said:
If I vote, i'll vote for bush, because hes the hypocritical piece of shit that I like most. or, most correctly, that i dislike the least.




:shake:


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Re: The War Record of Good Ole John "WarHero" Kerry [Re: TheOneYouKnow]
    #2422031 - 03/12/04 03:51 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

So what? You can get a Purple Heart for being shot in the butt, as long as it's in combat. And as far as his protesting the war after he completed his service, that's called "Freedom of Speech". Besides, had I gone through the hell that I've read Viet Nam was, I would have protested too! In any case, at least Kerry showed up to do his duty when called!


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Re: The War Record of Good Ole John "WarHero" Kerry [Re: Le_Canard]
    #2425122 - 03/12/04 08:43 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

ToiletDuk said:
So what? You can get a Purple Heart for being shot in the butt, as long as it's in combat. And as far as his protesting the war after he completed his service, that's called "Freedom of Speech". Besides, had I gone through the hell that I've read Viet Nam was, I would have protested too! In any case, at least Kerry showed up to do his duty when called!




Do liberals take classes in ignoring the point, or was it just that you and Alex went to the same high school?

The point was that a person who won't release the records that would detail why he was given four purple herats for injuries, but never missed one day of duty due to those injuries, the man who critizes bush for getting special treatment to run for office, questions Bush who DID release all of his record, and got the SAME special treatment. Hopefully that won't fly too far over your head.


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Re: The War Record of Good Ole John "WarHero" Kerry [Re: TheOneYouKnow]
    #2425160 - 03/12/04 09:02 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Sorry...but you don't necessarily need to be put out of action to get a purple heart, a point which flew over your head. And Bush never did release those pertinant service records, and to this day continues to fudge and mis-direct about the matter. And I'm not a 'Libbie' just because I don't happen to agree with you on everything. You might find this hard to understand, but I'm also not your enemy...


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Re: The War Record of Good Ole John "WarHero" Kerry [Re: TheOneYouKnow]
    #2433320 - 03/15/04 01:33 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)



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Re: The War Record of Good Ole John "WarHero" Kerry [Re: TheOneYouKnow]
    #2617435 - 04/29/04 06:26 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

I can't believe that the GOP has the balls to open their mouth about Kerry's war record considering Bush's military record.





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