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Would you vote for kerry if he wasn't running against bush?
    #2996517 -

This is just to sate my curiosity as a foreigner observing us politics. I'm assuming most of you are kerry supporters.

To me kerry looks like a sorry excuse of a candidate maybe even as bad as bush. That aside it's pretty clear alot of people are voting for him just to get bush out of office.

Pretend there is no bush. Could you imagine kerry becoming a good president? Would you vote for him if bush wasn't on the scene?

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Re: Would you vote for kerry if he wasn't running against bush? [Re: Lazerouth]
    #2996530 -

Depends on who he was running against. Hitler? Absolutely. John McCain? No.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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Re: Would you vote for kerry if he wasn't running against bu [Re: Lazerouth]
    #2996710 -

I don't think I'd vote for him if he was running against Bush... oh wait...

A presidential candidate should have to earn their votes, not just receive them because the people don't like the opposition. Kerry has shown me no good reason for why he is any better than Bush. At least I know where Bush's priorities lie, and what his views are. From what the vague views I've read on Kerry's site, I still don't see much of a difference between him and Bush, so until then I'd probably stick to voting for Cobb or Badnarik, people whose views are a lot closer to mine than either Bush's or Kerry's seem to be.


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So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.

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Re: Would you vote for kerry if he wasn't running against bu [Re: silversoul7]
    #2996869 -

silversoul7 said:
Depends on who he was running against. Hitler? Absolutely.


Hitler wouldn't have met with the North Vietnamese and the Viet Cong in Paris while our country was fighting a war. Hitler never commited the treasonous act of aiding and abetting the enemy like John Kerry and Jane Fonda did. Hitler also never admitted to war crimes and John Kerry did. Hitler was a self made man, not a son of priveledge like Kerry. And did Hitler ever flip flop? Hell no. At least with Adolf you knew where you stood.


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Tastes just like chicken

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Re: Would you vote for kerry if he wasn't running against bu [Re: JesusChrist]
    #2996906 -

Quote:
And did Hitler ever flip flop? Hell no. At least with Adolf you knew where you stood.


Well, I guess that makes it ok. As long as you know where he stood.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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Re: Would you vote for kerry if he wasn't running against bush? [Re: Lazerouth]
    #2996957 -

If Kerry wasn't running against bush, my vote would depend on who he WAS running against. Right now there are very few politicians who could make a difference that even stand a chance of winning the presidential election. Unless there was a candidate who I was positive would make a difference, yes I would still vote for Kerry.

On the opposite side, if Bush was running against someone other than Kerry, I would still vote against Bush unless someone who had no right to be there was running.

I don't see this election as a Dem. vs Rep. thing, it is more the fact that Bush had his 4 years and didn't impress me, now someone else should get a chance to be a chump.

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Re: Would you vote for kerry if he wasn't running against bush? [Re: Lazerouth]
    #3008298 -

Fifty-nine Deceits in Fahrenheit 9/11

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http://www.davekopel.org/Terror/Fiftysix-Deceits-in-Fahrenheit-911.htm


http://www.davekopel.org/terror/59Deceits.pdf


Fifty-nine Deceits in Fahrenheit 9/11

By Dave Kopel

Last revised: Aug. 3, 2004.

There is a Four-page PDF summary, which you may reproduce freely.

You may also photocopy the full text of this report if you give it away for free.

A volunteer film-maker MMfixer has produced a revised version of the first 14:34 of Fahrenheit 9/11. The new version includes all the material in the original movie, plus captions to point out where Moore misleads or omits critical facts. This covers the 2000 election, the Bush administration before 9/11, and the 9/11 attacks. To download the film, you need to use BitTorrent. BitTorrent is a free and widely program for distributing very large media files (such as Grateful Dead concerts). With BitTorrent, your computer will be downloading bytes and simultaneously uploading bytes to other users. (If you need to find out more about BitTorrent, check out their website.) Once you have installed BitTorrent, use your web browser to go to SuperNova.org. The new version is available in the Movies/Documentary section. The file is very large in size, and is in .mpg format. The file title is "Michael Moore Fahrenheit911FactsFixedPromo." The download will take several hours with a high-speed connection. The file is also available from Kazaa.com, but to access Kazaa you must allow Kazaa to install a great deal of spyware on your computer. I have been told that MMfixer has produced a second version, which is 28 minutes long. It is available at alt.binaries.multimedia, and you need to use FTP (file transfer protocol) to get it; don't ask me how, since I don't know.

The parody version of Fahrenheit graciously credits me at the beginning, presumably because of the article below. I had no role in anything to do with the parody movie. Having seen the 14 minute version, I can say that I agree with some but not all of the editorial decisions which were made by the producers. But as far as I can tell, I have not seen evidence that the parody producers ever falsified information.

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Re: Would you vote for kerry if he wasn't running against bu [Re: Ed1]
    #3008657 -

:wtf: :wtf: ?!?


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Magash's Grain Tek  + Tub-in-Tub Incubator + Magash's PMP + SBP Tek + Dunking = Practically all a newbie grower needs :thumbup:

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Re: Would you vote for kerry if he wasn't running against bu [Re: Lazerouth]
    #3008683 -


Kerry Unveils One-Point Plan For Better America


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Magash's Grain Tek  + Tub-in-Tub Incubator + Magash's PMP + SBP Tek + Dunking = Practically all a newbie grower needs :thumbup:

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Re: Would you vote for kerry if he wasn't running against bu [Re: Lazerouth]
    #3009011 -

Well..i can relate to .. Badnarik on points, Cobb on points, even Nader on some points.. alot more than i could Kerry or Bush. The fact is, i hate Democrats, but in a presidential election they are the only ones who stand a chance at beating Republicans. And other than McCain, there's very few Reps that i wouldn't spit on if given the chance (it's a joke folks..)

When it comes to these 3rd part canidates, I'm more interested in getting them established in local governments, state governments, even some seats in Congress.. before I waste my vote on an election they have no chance in hell of winning. Once they become a little more establish and you get a picture of how the party truly funcitons within this society, and they get alot more exposure and are taken seriously.. then we'll see.


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The People's Voice, Welcoming Liberals and Conservatives Alike

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Re: Would you vote for kerry if he wasn't running against bu [Re: DigitalDuality]
    #3009021 -

Quote:
When it comes to these 3rd part canidates, I'm more interested in getting them established in local governments, state governments, even some seats in Congress.. before I waste my vote on an election they have no chance in hell of winning. Once they become a little more establish and you get a picture of how the party truly funcitons within this society, and they get alot more exposure and are taken seriously.. then we'll see.


:thumbup: good point, well said. I try to vote green as much as possible in local and state government elections.

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Re: Would you vote for kerry if he wasn't running against bu [Re: DigitalDuality]
    #3009074 -

Quote:
When it comes to these 3rd part canidates, I'm more interested in getting them established in local governments, state governments, even some seats in Congress.. before I waste my vote on an election they have no chance in hell of winning. Once they become a little more establish and you get a picture of how the party truly funcitons within this society, and they get alot more exposure and are taken seriously.. then we'll see.



Two points:

1) How much do you disagree with the Republicans and Democrats? Clearly you agree with the DNC enough that you would rather a John Kerry in office than a George Bush. Many people who choose not to vote for the lesser of two evils realize the Republicans and Democrats started converging years ago and they are now ever closer to being one and the same. When you vote John Kerry this year you are getting the same war-mongering, the same liberty erosions, the same government overspending, and in general, the same big government bullshit that GW has graced us with the past four years. I don't mean to say they are completely the same, and perhaps the issues on which they do differ, stem cell research and the environment to name two of the few, make or break your decision. But the fact of the matter is, to vote for one of the two major parties is to encourage them to continue on the current path, which is of course the continued expansion of the devestating, deletarious, welfare-warfare state.

2) I, of course, agree with you that I would like to see minor parties and independant candidates serve in lesser offices before trying to serve in something like the presidency(realistically of course that would never happen...if green, or libertarian, or socialist, etc, ideals actually caught on with the American people enough for them to win a presidential election they would undoubtedly have won innumerous local, state, and federal seats in that same election). There is something of a catch-22 involved, however. Presidential candidates are far and away the best way for a party to spread it's name and ideals, and to gain funds. No local, state, congressional, or senatorial race can garner the national publicity that a presidential bid can. The more votes that the GP or the LP have on the night of November 2nd, the more people will think to themselves, 'I wonder what they stand for...' and the more people therefore, will check out the candidates of those parties that are running in local races.

If you do desire to vote your conscience but still subscribe to the lesser of two evils argument, check this out: Vote Buddy. This site pairs up voters on the left and right sides of the political spectrum who wish to vote for a candidate they truly respect, but don't want the other guy to win. For instance, a Constitution Party voter wants to vote for Michael Peroutka and a Green Party voter wants to vote for David Cobb, but the first guy doesn't want to see Kerry win and the second guy doesn't want to see Bush reelected. They pair up in effect in order to nullify what they see as the negative effect of voting for whom they desire. It's a pretty cool system that I would advise anyone in your situation to check out.


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?When Alexander the Great visted the philosopher Diogenes and asked whether he could do anything for him, Diogenes is said to have replied: 'Yes, stand a little less between me and the sun.' It is what every citizen is entitled to ask of his government.?
-Henry Hazlitt in 'Economics in One Lesson'

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Re: Would you vote for kerry if he wasn't running against bu [Re: Ancalagon]
    #3009451 -

HOw much do i disagree with Reps and Dems? Wow.. quite often. I don't agree with right wing bigotry, anymore than i do left wing political correctness. I don't agree with Christian special interest, anymore than i do black/female/gay special interest. I believe in equality.

Whether it's the right's sect that displays bigotry, or the left that overdoes the hand-me outs and doesn't regulate them tightly enough (though i don't oppose social programs entirely, i merely feel Dems have overdone it). Bush AND Kerry, are seasoned flip floppers if you really looked at it objectively. Kerry may have a bit of a better military career, but there's an awful lot fishy about it, so i think they both stink on that issue (not that the issue is really all that important, they've just made it so it is).

Personally.. I would like to see Cobb, Nader, and Badnarik participate in that Presidential debates for exposure to their ideals. Hell, even put Michael Peroutka there too. And while my philosophy maybe faulty, i'm still voting for the best chance to beat Bush.

I agree with involving the international community in Iraq and the war on terror. I agree with our participation in the UN. Kerry isn't the answer to gay marriage, but he's not a threat to it. Kerry won't push an agenda where religion oversteps the bounds of the Constitution. Hopefully Kerry will repair some of the damage Bush has done for the environment. Kerry supports stem-cell research, and medical marijuana. Where it might not be true drug legalization, it's a step.

But in the end, Kerry still supports the drug war. Kerry still supports special interest. Corporate America has their hands deeply in both canidates pockets. Kerry voted for the Patriot Act. Democrats are spineless when acting on alot of issues they supposedly truely stand for. Global warming would be one of them. Dems didn't support a 2000 Florida Election Congressional Investigation, which they should have (Not that Al Gore would have been great, but maybe we wouldn't be in Iraq, and our economy might be in better shape for the long haul) When it comes to abortion rights.. Dems are really stand off-ish. Agreeing with republicans, but making a disclaimer about why it can't be banned. There's a plethora of issues i don't agree with both parties on, virtually they're two sides to the same coin in alot of ways.

But like i said, i don't see Kerry as the answer by my values... by any means, but he's signifigantly better than Bush. And that's where my vote is going.

And i have checked out Voter Buddy before, hopefully it'll be around another 4 years, b/c i think that's a wonderful fucking idea. And maybe i'm just a typical Bush basher.. maybe not, i dunno, but i really don't want to risk another 4 years of him. I think there's times where you have to swallow your idealism. The whole Sun Tzu, the enenmy of my enemy is my friend type of thing...


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The People's Voice, Welcoming Liberals and Conservatives Alike

Edited by DigitalDuality (08/16/04 02:59 PM)

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