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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > Mushroom Cultivation
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Re: Ask Quick Questions, Get Quick Answers [Re: Proposition 122]
    #29322947 -

You are correct that at sea level atmospheric pressure is 14.7 PSI generally speaking which is part of why I say 15 psi is not the standard because to reach sterilization pressure you have to add 10 psi to a cooker at sea level and up to a thousand feet. Again 15 psi is not the standard for sterilization it is the actual PSI that allows your water and steam to reach the zone of 250 to 260


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“We either make ourselves miserable or we make ourselves strong. The amount of work is the same”

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Re: Ask Quick Questions, Get Quick Answers [Re: mushboy] * 3
    #29322949 -

idk guys that anecdote about pressure cooking onions has me pretty convinced

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Re: Ask Quick Questions, Get Quick Answers [Re: el53] * 1
    #29322951 -

Sterilization effectiveness depends on both temperature and time, with lower temperatures requiring longer exposure to achieve the same microbial kill rate (e.g., for bacterial spores). Using standard thermal death kinetics (z-value of 10°C), this temperature drop of about 2.5°C would require roughly 78% longer processing time to maintain equivalent sterilization—e.g., a 20-minute cycle at sea level might need about 35-36 minutes at 4500 feet.
Guidelines vary by application:
•  For pressure canning low-acid foods (per USDA and extensions like Penn State), adjust by increasing gauge pressure (e.g., to 13 psi on dial-gauge canners or 15 psi on weighted-gauge for altitudes 4,001-6,000 feet) while keeping time the same to maintain target temperatures around 116-121°C.
•  For other sterilization (e.g., substrates in mushroom cultivation or lab use), if pressure cannot be increased, extend time proportionally—e.g., 48% longer at 3,000 feet, scaling similarly to 78% at 4,500 feet.
•  Some pressure cooker manuals (e.g., Presto) suggest a general 5% time increase per 1,000 feet above 2,000 feet for cooking, but this underestimates needs for full sterilization, where studies show higher failure rates at elevation without adjustments.


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- Those two answers coexist peacefully.

Quick Sterilization Reference for Altitude

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Re: Ask Quick Questions, Get Quick Answers [Re: mushboy]
    #29322955 -

Careful reading would reveal that I said 10 psi at 1000 ft above sea level for sterilization. I never said 10 psi was a standard other than in that instance. Cooking anything at a higher PSI than required can turn it to sludge. If it's in a bag or a jar protecting it the sludge may be minimal. Put loose grain into a cooker 5 lb over the requirement for your elevation and it will go to sludge. I specifically said that over 70% of America's population resides under 1,000 ft above sea level.


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“We either make ourselves miserable or we make ourselves strong. The amount of work is the same”

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Re: Ask Quick Questions, Get Quick Answers [Re: el53] * 1
    #29322957 -

el53 said:
I would question your background considering how you were making assumptions on calculations. I did not come up with 15 psi up to between 8 and 10,000 feet. That is the standard for sterilization. You can literally look it up. You can also test it with the temperature gauge on most pots. At sea level no one has to run at 15 psi to reach 250 to 260 degrees Fahrenheit. Pressure does not sterilize. Wet temperature does.


You need to increase gauge pressure to compensate for the lower atmospheric pressure.

You need higher pressure at altitude because:

Atmospheric pressure is lower,

Which means boiling point is lower,

Which means it takes longer,

So you must increase gauge pressure to bring the absolute pressure (and temperature) back up.


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Re: Ask Quick Questions, Get Quick Answers [Re: el53]
    #29322963 -

:justno:

you are turning a basic concept that when followed correctly never fails into a protracted argument that is going nowhere.

:beatadeadhorse:

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Re: Ask Quick Questions, Get Quick Answers [Re: mushboy] * 4
    #29322964 -

getting some anders vibes :rolleyes:


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Re: Ask Quick Questions, Get Quick Answers [Re: 1NFIN8]
    #29322965 -

So now you know better than the people who make presto canners which are in fact among the last canners certified for pressure canning okay good to know.


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“We either make ourselves miserable or we make ourselves strong. The amount of work is the same”

Edited by el53 (08/23/25 11:05 AM)

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Re: Ask Quick Questions, Get Quick Answers [Re: Proposition 122] * 1
    #29322969 -

It's pretty obvious you've never worked in any food service canning industry or hospital sterilization. Imagine if crab meat were sterilized at a higher pressure just because it took longer at the correct pressure the end product would be less than palatable though indeed quite sterile. Kind of makes you question why so-called professionally done bags out of certain places take forever to colonize.


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“We either make ourselves miserable or we make ourselves strong. The amount of work is the same”

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Re: Ask Quick Questions, Get Quick Answers [Re: el53]
    #29322970 -

we are not cooking onions and crabs we are cooking whole cereal grains and rice powders.

none of this is applicable and i consider it rather off topic and derailing.

this is the quick Q quick A thread. make your own thread about canning crab meat but do not drag this out here.


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Making Liquid Culture :  Go insane with LC
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Re: Ask Quick Questions, Get Quick Answers [Re: el53]
    #29322972 -

el53 said:
So now you know better than the people who make presto canners which are in fact among the last canners certified for pressure canning okay good to know.


Let's see if we can end this.
If we are sterilizing agar 15psi for 90 minutes at sea level what would YOU do at 5,000' feet if you didn't want to adjust the time?


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"Let yourself be silently drawn by the strange pull of what you really love. It will not lead you astray." – Divan-e-Shams

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The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Shroomery

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Re: Ask Quick Questions, Get Quick Answers [Re: mushboy]
    #29322973 -

The basic argument is that there are canning standards for sterilization that you are warping for convenience and time. When the food service industry does that they end up with perfectly sterile but less than optimal product for consumption but you wish to insist somehow that this is a gold standard to hobbyists.


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“We either make ourselves miserable or we make ourselves strong. The amount of work is the same”

Edited by el53 (08/23/25 11:13 AM)

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Re: Ask Quick Questions, Get Quick Answers [Re: el53] * 2
    #29322975 -

argue it elsehwere. next please.


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:hypnotoad:
Making Liquid Culture :  Go insane with LC
Mushboy likes these teks : Making shroom tea
Dank Education

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Re: Ask Quick Questions, Get Quick Answers [Re: el53]
    #29322979 -

el53 said:
The basic argument is that there are canning standards for sterilization that you are warping for convenience and time. When the food service industry does that they end up with perfectly sterile but less than optimal product for consumption but you wish to insist somehow that this is a gold standard to hobbyists.


You're a troll! I'm done.


--------------------
"Let yourself be silently drawn by the strange pull of what you really love. It will not lead you astray." – Divan-e-Shams

How to upload Photos

The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Shroomery

Fruiting Cubes


Golden Teachers

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Re: Ask Quick Questions, Get Quick Answers [Re: mushboy]
    #29322984 -

mushboy said:
argue it elsehwere. next please.


Nobody answered my quick question:

You still trust the government?


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Re: Ask Quick Questions, Get Quick Answers [Re: RoscoeReturns] * 2
    #29322988 -

fuck no never have:noway2:


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:hypnotoad:
Making Liquid Culture :  Go insane with LC
Mushboy likes these teks : Making shroom tea
Dank Education

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Re: Ask Quick Questions, Get Quick Answers [Re: mushboy]
    #29322990 -

I answered a quick question accurately. You posted the methodology for converting nutrition into starch to save time.


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“We either make ourselves miserable or we make ourselves strong. The amount of work is the same”

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Re: Ask Quick Questions, Get Quick Answers [Re: RoscoeReturns]
    #29322991 -

I trust science. Published science on sterilization has never included increasing PSI in food production for speed or convenience.


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“We either make ourselves miserable or we make ourselves strong. The amount of work is the same”

Edited by el53 (08/23/25 11:50 AM)

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Re: Ask Quick Questions, Get Quick Answers [Re: Proposition 122]
    #29322998 -

More or less correct. At issue here is increasing beyond the point to reach your temperature goal for sterilization for the convenience of quicker sterilization. The problem is that the higher the pressure above what is required the more likely you are to destroy the nutrition in whatever you are sterilizing.


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“We either make ourselves miserable or we make ourselves strong. The amount of work is the same”

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Re: Ask Quick Questions, Get Quick Answers [Re: Proposition 122]
    #29323002 -

I would always adjust the time. There is no alternative. Any adjustment of the pressure to compensate for time affects the nutritiousness of the product in the end which we should never find acceptable unless we just want to grow half ass mushrooms. Buy another cooker if you need to produce more.


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“We either make ourselves miserable or we make ourselves strong. The amount of work is the same”

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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > Mushroom Cultivation
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