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Re: AGAR ENVY! (Anything and All things agar!) [Re: Mackload] * 1
    #29321157 -

Mackload said:
hey, Bunny.12! welcome. you can do a few plates at a time, more the merrier. and if possible figure out how to take a picture of the surface through the lid. autofocus often settles on the lid...:shrug:



Hi Mackload, thank you for the welcome. I did do another plate but nothing seemed to show up yet. This is the best I can do with my camera as it is not a macro lens. I did take the picture in manual focus, cropped it and I got what I got. This is the third time I made up plates, the first time something grew, other than the one plate that had obvious contamination. I will try again tomorrow doing a few more plates. And then...  ...waiting again....


--------------------
Stumbling through life one day at a time.

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Re: AGAR ENVY! (Anything and All things agar!) [Re: anders] * 10
    #29321159 -

@anders

How do you know you didn't spread mold spores all over your plate and healthy mycelium when you picked up the cut out piece? Spores are literally designed to be spread by air movement.

That's the main reason we cut out healthy mycelium, so it is removed from contamination, not the other way around.

If you're short on plates, look into reusable petri dishes or HG cups.

I have about 100 dishes that I just cycle through. I do no pours so I don't have to resterilize them before pouring. I prepare 30-50 at a time.

I don't often get mold or bacteria on my plates, but it does happen occasionally. I just make sure that I always have sterilized plates ready to go. If something looks fucky, I just cut out the healthiest bit and move on.

It only takes a couple weeks to grow out a plate to the size where it can be put to grain. Having peace of mind that I'm using 100% clean innoculant is worth the extra month to do a couple transfers. If you do a handful of transfers a week, you'll eventually get to the point where you always have a clean plate ready to inoculate.

I can appreciate wanting to learn from bad plates put to grain, but I want to stress that you're making things more difficult on yourself. There isn't any reason to reinvent the wheel and go against convention when what everyone else does works.

Something you don't know about me is that I had a hard time getting started. I made all the usual mistakes from vendor syringes, to not venting PC, to putting bad plates to grain and hoping. I earned my self imposed title of "professional coir waster" by thinking that I knew better than the people trying to help me. It was only when I started following tried and true guides did I start seeing a decent amount of success. It was a frustrating process. You can save yourself that frustration by not trying to buck the system. Listen to the people trying to help you.

I've seen enough circumstantial evidence to convince me that you are Doc Smoke.  I don't expect you to confirm or deny it, but either way, you being here is proof that you want to be a part of this community. So become a part of this community and listen to the people trying to help you. You'll fit in a lot better, have a less frustrating time, and get a fuck tonne of mushrooms in the process. This site has been here for 25+ years, there isn't really much that hasn't been tried yet. No one cuts contamination out of agar because it doesn't work. It's not some novel idea, just a bad one.

I don't control your actions, you do. You can choose to have a snarky reply to this, or not. You can choose to follow proven good methods or not. Don't let you be the reason you fail.


--------------------
I've got skills, they don't know where to use me
I'm like the best dressed guy at the nude beach
Nice to meet you!

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Re: AGAR ENVY! (Anything and All things agar!) [Re: Bunny.12] * 1
    #29321171 -

Bunny.12 said:
Mackload said:
hey, Bunny.12! welcome. you can do a few plates at a time, more the merrier. and if possible figure out how to take a picture of the surface through the lid. autofocus often settles on the lid...:shrug:



Hi Mackload, thank you for the welcome. I did do another plate but nothing seemed to show up yet. This is the best I can do with my camera as it is not a macro lens. I did take the picture in manual focus, cropped it and I got what I got. This is the third time I made up plates, the first time something grew, other than the one plate that had obvious contamination. I will try again tomorrow doing a few more plates. And then...  ...waiting again....



that's the way. soon you'll have myc, and then you'll have mushrooms! :rockon:


--------------------
Learn it, know it, live it


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Re: AGAR ENVY! (Anything and All things agar!) [Re: Mackload]
    #29321290 -

:popcorn:


--------------------
Within cells interlinked
Within cells interlinked

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Re: AGAR ENVY! (Anything and All things agar!) [Re: mushboy] * 2
    #29321463 -

mushboy said:
Synack said:
Hard to imagine I'd get a vendor LC syringe of pure mold, no?



its easy for me to imagine.

ive never done nats/orch or whatever but that just looks like straight mold to me. but i could be wrong.



So I decided to go back to the original LC syringe that was kept sealed in my fridge, and start up two new plates with it. I do see what looks like a normal cloud of mycelium floating around in the syringe, and no other untoward characteristics, but I know that's hardly evidence of anything when it comes to LC. I'll come back in a couple days with fresh pix of what those plates look like and maybe they'll tell a different story.

Meanwhile, definitely don't take what I said as any kind of argument. If it's mold, it's mold. I have zero confidence in my own judgement here, which is why I asked in the first place. Trying my best to just do what folks here say. I just have this LC and no other way to make nats currently so I'm willing to beat my head against that wall a bit more before giving up.

I also held out hope that I could get my bacterial-as-fuck rusty whyte grain spawn (also from vendor LC) to top fruit, and I got one today! So, I submit as evidence of my reform and adoption of the Shroomery golden path for mush cult: three clone plates of tissue from that RW fruit. First time cloning, wish me luck!



--------------------
:blackspy:00010010
"When a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security."


The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Shroomery <-- This is the way.



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Re: AGAR ENVY! (Anything and All things agar!) [Re: PuffM4gicDr4gon]
    #29321519 -

Bunny.12 said:
This is the third time I made up plates, the first time something grew, other than the one plate that had obvious contamination. I will try again tomorrow doing a few more plates. And then...  ...waiting again....



If you're using syringes (not reommended) rather than spore prints you're much more likely to get contamination.  Any little bit has all it needs to multiply in that syringe.  Whereas you take a small sample from a spore print, reducing the chance of contamination.

In either case it's a good idea to use a cell spreader to spread out your spores so they can germinate with some room around them and you can see what you have.


PuffM4gicDr4gon said:
How do you know you didn't spread mold spores all over your plate and healthy mycelium when you picked up the cut out piece? Spores are literally designed to be spread by air movement.

That's the main reason we cut out healthy mycelium, so it is removed from contamination, not the other way around.



See this is where you and I differ.  I remove contaminents as soon as I recognise them and hopefully before they have a chance to sporullate.  This method is the ONLY reason I have anything of any MiB left to propagate.  I am waiting now to see what I have.


PuffM4gicDr4gon said:
If you're short on plates, look into reusable petri dishes or HG cups.

I have about 100 dishes that I just cycle through. I do no pours so I don't have to resterilize them before pouring. I prepare 30-50 at a time.



Certainly not short of plates -- I use disposables and prep about 30 at a time.  I'm not to a point where I trust sterilizing these flimsey plastic plates;  I think they'd melt.


PuffM4gicDr4gon said:
I don't often get mold or bacteria on my plates, but it does happen occasionally. I just make sure that I always have sterilized plates ready to go. If something looks fucky, I just cut out the healthiest bit and move on.

It only takes a couple weeks to grow out a plate to the size where it can be put to grain. Having peace of mind that I'm using 100% clean innoculant is worth the extra month to do a couple transfers. If you do a handful of transfers a week, you'll eventually get to the point where you always have a clean plate ready to inoculate.



You're only considering my past because I freely disclose what is happening with my plates.  I am catching up to the rest of you, correcting one or two errors at a time, but maybe I am doing it differently.  That doesn't define it as wrong.


PuffM4gicDr4gon said:
I've seen enough circumstantial evidence to convince me that you are Doc Smoke.  I don't expect you to confirm or deny it, but either way, you being here is proof that you want to be a part of this community. So become a part of this community and listen to the people trying to help you. You'll fit in a lot better, have a less frustrating time, and get a fuck tonne of mushrooms in the process. This site has been here for 25+ years, there isn't really much that hasn't been tried yet. No one cuts contamination out of agar because it doesn't work. It's not some novel idea, just a bad one.



Somebody's 'gaydar' is miscalibrated.  I've noticed that several are seeing doc smoke in every woodpile, not just in mine.  That must have been one explosive episode, he made such an impression.  Obviously frightened a few here.

Well if he is in fact a 'doctor', I too am a highly educated man, and I am also a leader, in my job and in life.  I can not help how I am, I just am what I am.  This is why I may not fit in so well with the crowd, and sound differently, and may have different ideas.  It's not important to me whether others like those ideas or not, what is important is whether they work or not in practice.  Because I must live, operate, and die merit-based.  I don't talk about what I have accomplished in life because for others it is just  drag.  You don't know who I am.  But this American Hate is wearisome, and toxic for the forum.  And yes my 'gaydar' says this is American-style.

I am not pretending I know anything beyond what I have actually DONE.  I have checked in here regularly with what I am doing, and have accepted well-placed corrections.  That's what forums are for.  Not bickering, petty grudges, or lashing out with one's grievances about life.  Put me on Ignore if you will, rate me badly if you will, ban me if you will, and I will survive and grow mushrooms as long as I have time.

Enough said.  I have tried and tried (unsuccessfully) to keep this thread on agar.

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Re: AGAR ENVY! (Anything and All things agar!) [Re: anders] * 5
    #29321544 -

Let's keep things on topic , if you have issues to resolve maybe try shoot a message, I'm tossing out official warnings and making this one public.
If you have issues with anders take it up with the mods it's our job to decide if he's a puppet or not


--------------------
It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn
I'm tired do me a favor

I'M A MEMBER FIRST, TC WHEN NEEDED AND MOD WHEN I HAVE TO BE !!!

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Re: AGAR ENVY! (Anything and All things agar!) [Re: Puffin]
    #29321582 -

Puffin said:
How many spores?





A quick update on this one

About 32 hours after inoculation and there is some germination observed under the microscope



There is also an area with bacterial contamination



It's not a surprise that there is some bacterial contamination after putting so many spores onto agar from a spore print. If I had have waited another day I could have used antibiotic agar since those supplies just arrived yesterday. I'll store the plate vertically and see what happens.

This can be a good opportunity for experimenting with the antibiotics.



I'll document that here: Antibiotic Agar


--------------------
Protoplast Fusion


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Re: AGAR ENVY! (Anything and All things agar!) [Re: Puffin] * 3
    #29321690 -

I've never had good success with antibiotics. Cabins and sandwiches are so much better

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Re: AGAR ENVY! (Anything and All things agar!) [Re: PhenoDreamers]
    #29321696 -

PhenoDreamers said:
I've never had good success with antibiotics. Cabins and sandwiches are so much better



They arrived yesterday so not had a chance to try them yet.

When you say that you never had good success with them do you mean that they didn't stop the bacteria? Which antibiotics did you use?


--------------------
Protoplast Fusion


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Re: AGAR ENVY! (Anything and All things agar!) [Re: anders] * 7
    #29321705 -

anders said:
PuffM4gicDr4gon said:
Why did you cut pieces out of those plates that aren't MIB and Semp?



I guess you are referring to me?  Some incel earlier said he is not looking at plates with "bites out of them".  Glad to not have his input.

Sometimes a plate in which you've invested four wedges develops trich or mold.  Rather than move four wedges, I cut out the bad.  Sometimes more comes so I cut that out.  I realize that this is not de rigueur but it is the way I do it, just like many things I do are not 'according to Hoyle'. (ancient reference)  Hell, putting a wedge into four quadrants is 'just not done'.  But I do it.

Back in the '70's Japanese cars were just crap and everyone knew it.  But the makers zeroed in on the actual problems with clarity and focus, and fixed them one-by-one, and I'll bet you drive a Japanese car now.  It's called the Scientific Process.

I was aware of trich and how it looks, but was fooled by mould.  Now I am aware of that and am mitigating.  Sometimes the only option is to remove the last good wedge and put it on a fresh plate, which is what I've done with MiB.  Today I did a mass innoc to grain, and I know that at least 4 jars are going to be pure mould.  But I will let them grow because I want to see what that actually looks like.  Of my 14 jars (all catalogued) I hope to have at least some rip nicely.  But time will tell.  Have I introduced dlean myc?  Have I hydrated the grain to the correct level, etc?

What I know though is the UV sterilization flood is a good decision, as were several others I've learned.  Bit-by-bit.



My brother in Christ...why would you come to a community to learn how to do something and then completely disregard the processes taught here? I dont understand why you came here just to say "I'm not doing it your way, I'm doing it my way." as if you have any idea what you're doing. Im sorry, but your plates look like hammered dog shit.

And there's a reason we transfer away from contamination and not just cut contamination out. You have no idea if the remaining uncolonized agar is next to sprout some shit. Which you've now experienced yourself bc you outright said that youve cut it away and had it come back. So is that evidence enough for you now? And the longer you let that shit go before finally taking a small sample to a new plate, the more likely it'll be that you can't grab myc without grabbing contamination.

You're intent on doing it wrong, despite asking for help, and then playing the victim when it doesn't work. You're wasting peoples' time and behaving like an absolute hemorrhoid. Figure it out or just stop asking questions - you've got it figured out anyway, so why bother?


--------------------


Hitchhikers Guide to The Shroomery

Shine on forever, shine on benevolent son
Shine down upon the severed
Shine until the two become one

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Re: AGAR ENVY! (Anything and All things agar!) [Re: Puffin]
    #29321712 -

Yeah they didn't do shit for me dude. Gentamicin

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Re: AGAR ENVY! (Anything and All things agar!) [Re: PhenoDreamers] * 1
    #29321723 -

PhenoDreamers said:
Yeah they didn't do shit for me dude. Gentamicin



Cool, well I have them now so I will experiment. I have Gentamicin and Chloramphenicol to create a cocktail. I know that some antibiotics are only effective against some types bacteria, and that bacteria can also develop resistance.

You added the antibiotics to the agar after pressure cooking?


--------------------
Protoplast Fusion


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Re: AGAR ENVY! (Anything and All things agar!) [Re: Puffin] * 3
    #29321741 -

I know gentamicin survives autoclaving temps, so you add when you mix. Best to look up the guidance on whatever you add individually.

Antibiotics can have a real effect on mycelial growth and health, so best to only use for trying to clean up a transfer, and drop onto normal media for growth and expansion.

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Re: AGAR ENVY! (Anything and All things agar!) [Re: Puffin] * 2
    #29321744 -

Yeah definitely should always experiment anyways. You could have better results than I did

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Re: AGAR ENVY! (Anything and All things agar!) [Re: Puffin] * 4
    #29321749 -

Puffin said:
You added the antibiotics to the agar after pressure cooking?



Gentamicin is heat stable and will survive autoclaving just fine. You can add that to your broth before you sterilize.

Chloramphenicol is NOT heat stable. After you autoclave your media you must wait until it cools before adding chloramphenicol. It must be added aseptically to your liquid media just before you pour. Chloramphenicol is also degraded by hydrolysis in an aqueous vehicle. Use those plates soon after you pour them, they don’t retain activity for very long. Refrigeration can slow that process.

Malt extract agar already inhibits the growth of most bacterial species due to its acidic pH. Key words being inhibits growth, not kills off. I’m currently experimenting with using tryptic soy agar media to see if this growth inhibition is causing “false negatives.” If bacteria is present yet not able to grow am I seeing a clean plate that is not really clean?

Having said all that, I have used antibiotic agar in the past to clean up very dirty cultures that I couldn’t otherwise replace. Other than that very rare (for me) instance, I don’t see the utility of it in cultivation. I’ve had equal success using cabin sequestering, so I don’t know that I’ll go through the added steps of making antibiotic agar again.

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Re: AGAR ENVY! (Anything and All things agar!) [Re: RoscoeReturns]
    #29321892 -

Gentamicin is gram-negative, and evidently hasn't worked, which imples that the bacteria we are concerned with is gram-positive.

Chloramphenicol is gram-positive, and may do it.

Trichoderma (the green) is a mold, not bacterial.

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Re: AGAR ENVY! (Anything and All things agar!) [Re: RoscoeReturns]
    #29321956 -

RoscoeReturns said:
Puffin said:
You added the antibiotics to the agar after pressure cooking?



Gentamicin is heat stable and will survive autoclaving just fine. You can add that to your broth before you sterilize.

Chloramphenicol is NOT heat stable. After you autoclave your media you must wait until it cools before adding chloramphenicol. It must be added aseptically to your liquid media just before you pour. Chloramphenicol is also degraded by hydrolysis in an aqueous vehicle. Use those plates soon after you pour them, they don’t retain activity for very long. Refrigeration can slow that process.

Malt extract agar already inhibits the growth of most bacterial species due to its acidic pH. Key words being inhibits growth, not kills off. I’m currently experimenting with using tryptic soy agar media to see if this growth inhibition is causing “false negatives.” If bacteria is present yet not able to grow am I seeing a clean plate that is not really clean?

Having said all that, I have used antibiotic agar in the past to clean up very dirty cultures that I couldn’t otherwise replace. Other than that very rare (for me) instance, I don’t see the utility of it in cultivation. I’ve had equal success using cabin sequestering, so I don’t know that I’ll go through the added steps of making antibiotic agar again.



I did get some TSA, but have not poured it yet.  I just got to get it poured

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Re: AGAR ENVY! (Anything and All things agar!) [Re: anders] * 1
    #29321997 -

anders said:
Bunny.12 said:
This is the third time I made up plates, the first time something grew, other than the one plate that had obvious contamination. I will try again tomorrow doing a few more plates. And then...  ...waiting again....



If you're using syringes (not reommended) rather than spore prints you're much more likely to get contamination.  Any little bit has all it needs to multiply in that syringe.  Whereas you take a small sample from a spore print, reducing the chance of contamination.

In either case it's a good idea to use a cell spreader to spread out your spores so they can germinate with some room around them and you can see what you have.



Hi, thank you for the information. I just bought the syringe of spores as it was one of the few places selling material in my country. I had no luck germinating spores on previous plates so I just left the drop of solution in the corner hoping two spores meet up. Just for kicks I will be trying to isolate a few of these sites and transfer them onto new plates. Of course I can not find any stainless steel wire (it is in a box here somewhere) but then I had a thought. I could use the end of a guitar string as one.



--------------------
Stumbling through life one day at a time.

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Re: AGAR ENVY! (Anything and All things agar!) [Re: ThurmanMurman]
    #29322065 -

ThurmanMurman said:
My brother in Christ...



Ja Thurman, I understand your true intentions here, and as an aside although I do believe in the teachings of the leader Christ, almost no one these days understands nor actually knows them, much less really lives by them.  And in any case I am an atheist.

Your heartfelt post is enough for me to change my practice of excising trich and other contaminents, to excising the healthy instead, as I am not intransigent, and I respect you.  Science makes the decision.

Also I have made further developments in this craft, but feel unsafe in this environment so I will practice them on my own.  (A Mod, who I did not know is a Mod, is allowed to insult and punish us, however we are not allowed to respond in kind?)  Well it's the way it is. 

I keep my developments to myself.  It is my consolation.

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