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General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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Re: Do plants have consciousness? [Re: Jellric]
    #2917348 -

Those signals are probably reflexive chemical signals.


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Be all and you'll be to end all

Edited by mntlfngrs (07/23/04 09:21 AM)

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Re: Do plants have consciousness? [Re: Jellric]
    #2921820 -

Sorry to bring this up again, but I was reading this the other day and was meaning to post my personal feeling:

A lot of people seem to think there is a "universal consciousness", and I am inclined to agree. However, how does an evolving organism (plants and animals, both made from DNA) tap into this consciousness? Is it magic, is it a special shape or pattern, or what? Well, I don't think any of us know the answer to that one, but it's likely the animal brain is in fact a direct link to consciousness, and as plants have not evolved this, they probably don't tap into the universal consciousness.

Plants seem to be a lot better off without it too ! But another way of looking at this, is that the animal brain traps a personal "ego", or small band of the consiousness, and block out the greater consciousness, which makes this "ego" ignorant and wish not to die.


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I am merely a parody.

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Re: Do plants have consciousness? [Re: d33p]
    #2921921 -

d33p said:
But you think about what is being thrown at you. If it was a baseball your eyes would be open and you would catch it. You are thinking maybe you just do not realize it. The brain does work pretty fast.


I would say that the ability to override reflexes, as in the above example, is a much better mark of consciousness.


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"Do we want the stars? We can have them. Can we borrow cups of fire from the sun? We can and must and light the world." --"On the Shoulders of Giants", Ray Bradbury

All of my posts are full of fiction and blatant lies.

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Re: Do plants have consciousness? [Re: djd586]
    #2922210 -

djd586 said:
This question has been asked before . . . like a year or so back. It's a tough debate. Being a biologist, I would have to lean towards the idea that plants are not conscious. Many plants do have deliberate reactions to certain stimuli, but these reactions are not conscious reactions, but rather pre-programmed. A plant cannot perform certain actions without the proper stimuli. And many plants cannot distinguish between a proper stimulus and false stimuli. For example, a Venus Fly Trap will snap shut no matter what touches its trigger hairs, whether it is wind, rain, or an insect. If a Venus Fly Trap was conscious, it would be able to distinguish between various stimuli and react accordingly without expending any unnecessary energy.


this sounds reasonable.
it could be simply that our set of pre-programmed reactions is much bigger.
but functions the same.


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"You cannot trust in law, unless you can trust in people. If you can trust in people, you don't need law." -J. Mumma

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Re: Do plants have consciousness? [Re: Jellric]
    #2922288 -

As a gardener I certainly feel that plants are concious, but not on the same order of conciousness as humans or higher animals. Every living thing is aware, but the type of awareneaa is based on it's need.

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Re: Do plants have consciousness? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #2922365 -

I'm pretty much in agreement with what everyone has said here. My purpose in posing the question was mainly as a vehicle to get people thinking about what it is that makes us as humans conscious. Good responses all around.  :3rd_eye:


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I am what Willis was talkin' bout.

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Re: Do plants have consciousness? [Re: Jellric]
    #2922475 -

yes, they sure do. :thumbup:

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Re: Do plants have consciousness? [Re: djd586]
    #2922813 -

djd586 said:
This question has been asked before . . . like a year or so back.  It's a tough debate.  Being a biologist, I would have to lean towards the idea that plants are not conscious.  Many plants do have deliberate reactions to certain stimuli, but these reactions are not conscious reactions, but rather pre-programmed.  A plant cannot perform certain actions without the proper stimuli.  And many plants cannot distinguish between a proper stimulus and false stimuli.  For example, a Venus Fly Trap will snap shut no matter what touches its trigger hairs, whether it is wind, rain, or an insect.  If a Venus Fly Trap was conscious, it would be able to distinguish between various stimuli and react accordingly without expending any unnecessary energy.


:noway:

I can and will not accept that! *drops venus plant and runs off sobbing*

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Re: Do plants have consciousness? [Re: browndustin]
    #2923112 -

great post, really making me think here

if we were to extend this definition of consciousness, I think then we would have to add that humans then have a "conscious-awareness" 

at the same time that example you mention about the leaves gowing sour was very intriguing.  if this is really true, and they actually "communicated" then that owuld mean there would be another form of communication we haven't even heard of.  :shocked:


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Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.

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Re: Do plants have consciousness? [Re: Jellric]
    #2923323 -

blah blah blah


some things are.. just what they are

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Re: Do plants have consciousness? [Re: Jellric]
    #2923530 -

2nd density:
Awareness as a line, biological matter, development of species identity. The consciousness expressed by 2nd density vibration does not possess self-awareness (or ego). Most species within the plant and animal kingdoms exist here, however their placement in density depends upon many additional factors, including the presence of absence of ego.


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Re: Do plants have consciousness? [Re: Shroomism]
    #2924084 -

Awareness as a line

Interesting phrase. Can you elaborate on that a little please?


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I am what Willis was talkin' bout.

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Re: Do plants have consciousness? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #2924328 -

dude you cant prove that.....


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we were born into the world of nature.
when we die, we are born into the world of spirit.

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Re: Do plants have consciousness? [Re: ]
    #2924982 -

mushmaster said:
....
i don't feel that responsiveness to the surrounding environment equals consciousness. all living things respond to the environment in which they live.


Maybe that is because all living things are conscious!


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You are the microcosm of the macrocosm.

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Re: Do plants have consciousness? [Re: Jellric]
    #2925108 -

Jellric said:
Awareness as a line

Interesting phrase. Can you elaborate on that a little please?


Hmm.. depends what perspective you mean. Think consciousness, with no self identity.
Like a rock would be in the first density. It exists, but it is not aware of it's existence. It has consciousness in the form of a point..
The plant exists and is aware of its existence, but has no ego. It has awareness of its existence to the extent of living and growing and being a part of the whole.

From a logical perspective, 2nd density is simply life without conscious intelligence... such as plants, animals, and even some intelligent animals like chimps.


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Re: Do plants have consciousness? [Re: Shroomism]
    #2925203 -

Shroomism said:
Jellric said:
Awareness as a line

Interesting phrase. Can you elaborate on that a little please?


Hmm.. depends what perspective you mean. Think consciousness, with no self identity.
Like a rock would be in the first density. It exists, but it is not aware of it's existence. It has consciousness in the form of a point..
The plant exists and is aware of its existence, but has no ego. It has awareness of its existence to the extent of living and growing and being a part of the whole.

From a logical perspective, 2nd density is simply life without conscious intelligence... such as plants, animals, and even some intelligent animals like chimps.


what about those chimps that know sign language...


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"You cannot trust in law, unless you can trust in people. If you can trust in people, you don't need law." -J. Mumma

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Re: Do plants have consciousness? [Re: BleaK]
    #2925277 -

I said some


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Re: Do plants have consciousness? [Re: BleaK]
    #2925290 -

Bleak, do you have some ideas you want to share on the subject?
It seems like all you ever do is sit back and snipe instead of offering ideas of your own.

Maybe you are holding back something that could help further the discussion?

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Re: Do plants have consciousness? [Re: ]
    #2925303 -

mushmaster said:
all living things respond to the environment in which they live.


INcluding incects??
I dont think that incects think, the just react. All the do is try to live. Its not because they want to see the future or want to reflect on life or their self, they just live.
Of course I dont know that is the answer, just the same as anyone else, butthat is what I think.

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Re: Do plants have consciousness? [Re: Jellric]
    #2925524 -

Curling up when touched is no more an indicator of consciousness than sprouting flowers. Plants follow DNA instructions etc. but there's no higher level processing of information.


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Namaste

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