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The Official Wild Cubensis Thread * 21
    #29096353 -

Howdy y'all! A place to discuss wild cubensis genetics is lacking, so after asking a mod, welcome to The Official Wild Cubensis Thread :woot:

This is not an open trade thread, although I would eventually like to create one in the marketplace. Consider this the place to share wild specimen finds and pics, trip reports from wild varieties, experiences, insights, grows from wild spores and anything else related to naturally occurring Cubensis.

First of all, this should be required reading, a very interesting read on Cubensis commercial genetics compared to wild Australian specimens.

TL, DR summary of what I find important from the study:

1- Most of the Cubensis genetics from vendors are all highly inbred with very little genetic variety, and each subsequent MS grow from these strains reduces the available genetic stock even further. Note that this isn't necessarily bad, they have been bred for monotubs and potency and excel at that. But they have very limited genetic variety and that could be a problem in the future as the genepool keeps shrinking.

2- Wild Australian Cubensis specimens have some shared genetic markers indicating older shared ancestries with other cubensis populations, and it also indicates one population bottleneck, probably from the introduction of cows to Australia, which later propagated Cubensis via spores naturally.

3- While only Australian wild Cubensis were tested against the vendor ones, it is likely the case that the vast majority of wild varieties are genetically diverse compared to commercial ones.

4- It does not seem that commercial varieties have been successful in the wild, either due to genetic disadvantages in competing with wild strains and/or a lack of efficient ways or will of introducing them to the environment *cough COW TEK cough*

5- So many strains are actually just re-labelled Golden Teachers, probably an early intentional vendor scam to increase syringe sales. Z-strain, TAT, McKennaii, Maui, Mexican Dutch King, Ecuador, Cambodian, Burma, B+, A++, Blue Meanie, Amazon, Orissa India, etc. Unfortunately this means that many of the variety histories and origin location are all vendor bullshit. This also means we should try to get actual wild specimens from these places. PE, which is noted to be in its own category in terms of effects, is actually genetically distinct from the others.

6- The mantra "a cube is a cube" could be due to the fact that so many classic cubes are just an offshoot of GT. We should see what else is out there.

7- It would probably be cool to cross commercial genes with wild ones in an attempt, and our community would be the best one to do it, especially now that crossing has become trendy. Where in nature does inbreeding not cause problems down the line?

Related blogposts

So, let's discuss. My first questions:

Who here has tripped off of wild cubensis recently, and was there something different about it?

Who here has done grows from wild spores? Got pics?

Who has wild spores in their collection, and would you be willing to do some PF cakes to disseminate them?

:havesomescience:


--------------------
I call them Huskies cause they Mush!


Huskies' Grimoire
The Official Wild Cubensis Thread
Easy Instant Pot Agar
Let's Talk Cowtek

Edited by Huskies (01/21/25 10:15 PM)

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Re: The Official Wild Cubensis Thread [Re: Huskies] * 8
    #29096506 -

Although too far north to find wild cubes, I love the idea of more "wild type" varieties and landraces.

I guess my first question would be, how long can a variety be in cultivation before it's considered "domestic"??  Would something like F+ that has been in cultivation for almost 23 years, or Lizard King or Hillbilly which we all know were originally collected from the wild be considered "wild-type" anymore?

Another consideration, for these older wild-type varieties, might be that they have to be re-stabilized so that they grow truer to their wild-type traits. "Genetic restoration" if you will, to undo years of bad or uninformed selective breeding practices.  When I first got my spores of F+ a year ago, the first grow looked nothing like the original culture, so much so that I thought I had the wrong culture:


Images by Joshua from almost 23 years ago of one of the first F+ indoor grows


My first grow of F+, last year

The first and second flushes of this tub looked nothing like the original landrace pics (small, dark, short, more like a golden teacher in appearance), so I threw the cake outside in the compost pile not expecting much, but to my surprise:



All the smaller, darker genetics disappeared and a lighter, larger more wild-type cluster showed itself.  It more correctly matched the original variety description in size, weight and color compared to the fruits from first 2 flushes. Was this the more "tub-friendly" genetics dying out, making way for the more recessive wild genetics?  Or was it simply a case of environmental expression?  Either way, I tried cloning from these fruits to save the lighter, truer expression, but alas the level of contaminants plus my inexperience at the time ended up costing me the culture.  I saved spores, so I hope I can recreate this true wild-type pheno again in an effort to restore the variety to it's original wild-type appearance and growth habit both indoors and out. 

This all makes me wonder if instead of just preserving genetics of these wild landraces from tub or pf grows, if we instead should be growing outdoors for both correct expression of phenotypes and also environmental hardiness so they don't end up weak to outdoor grows and look nothing like they did in the wild..  Maybe in order to keep wild strains "wild" we have to expose them to the same pressures that made them successful in the wild to begin with.

:2cents:


--------------------
All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost;
The old that is strong does not wither,
Deep roots are not reached by the frost.  - J.R.R. Tolkien

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Re: The Official Wild Cubensis Thread [Re: Carnonos]
    #29096511 -

Oh this is good thread fuck yeah huskies


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𝕴𝖋 𝕴 π–π–†π–›π–Š π–˜π–Šπ–Šπ–“ π–‹π–šπ–—π–™π–π–Šπ–— π–Žπ–™ π–Žπ–˜ π–‡π–ž π–˜π–™π–†π–“π–‰π–Žπ–“π–Œ π–šπ–•π–”π–“ π–™π–π–Š π–˜π–π–”π–šπ–‘π–‰π–Šπ–—π–˜ 𝖔𝖋 π•²π–Žπ–†π–“π–™π–˜

:drugnerd: The TekDek v.2    Autist Tally :laugh:

:mushroom2:How to make a TEK:mushroom2:

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Re: The Official Wild Cubensis Thread [Re: Huskies]
    #29096533 -

Thanks for making this thread! I don’t live in a place where wild cubes grow. But, I read that paper and it is a fascinating study. It’s inspired me to start a project and cross strains that are not golden teacher, with a hope to diversify the genetics in circulation. I think it would be great to get a community project going to do that too. Maybe I’ll get my hands on some wild genetics to work with. Cool idea for a thread!

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Re: The Official Wild Cubensis Thread [Re: Carnonos] * 1
    #29096575 -

@ teonac: same here! seems like a worthwhile pursuit and if anyone has good swabs or prints dm me!

@tri: thanks babe

@carnonos: Thanks for getting the thread going!

We would have to see a genetic breakdown, but chances are anything that has been isolated and bred with itself for decades isn't quite "wild" anymore. Now, what that means is just it does it the genes it expresses are from a much smaller sample. Still might be less inbred than GTs if they aren't actually just GTs like what I am now assuming are most of the classic cubes.

Another issue is: do we TRULY know those were taken from the wild? I don't know the history of those, supposedly Hillbilly was from Arkansas, and if it was a trusted community member chances are its true.

But anything thats been sold for decades on spore websites might be BS or at least would almost certainly show inbreeding. For example, even Orissa India, which is touted as a wild Indian elephant dung mushroom, shows that it came from GT, aka, the whole story is bull.

We basically need pictures, locations and time when collected from now on.

The mantra of "when you go back to MS its a reset of the genetics" only replies to the genes from that specific culture. Every time a selection is made on agar, and even every time a new line is made from a single spore print, the possible gene expressions get narrower and narrower.

Like, in the wild, on a cow field, hundreds if not thousands of individual mushrooms will release billions or trillions of spores into the air, which will land on the grass. That grass with spores on it will be eaten by cows, which will poop out that grass within 48 hours, with the spores directly in their preferred substrate. A spore lands, begins growing, and it will connect with other mycelium, potentially from one of the hundreds of other mushrooms.

Meanwhile, cultivation's meta now involves using a single spore print most of the time, and actually reducing the genetic possibilities via agar work, and trying to breed more inbred mushrooms, whose spores genetic potential will reflect the decrease in genes.

Basically, human intervention makes a cubensis orgy into a solo wank session.

In your case, I do not know the answer, but I want us as a community to find the answer. Perhaps the mycelium deploys their favorite shroom pheno based on the environment? Smart lil buggers.

I don't think we need to cultivate outdoors, but we should cross commercial strains with wild prints to increase the available genes in those, and we should grow MS grows from wild prints and share those F1s. The reason for MS being all agar work will by design limit the potential gene expressions.


--------------------
I call them Huskies cause they Mush!


Huskies' Grimoire
The Official Wild Cubensis Thread
Easy Instant Pot Agar
Let's Talk Cowtek

Edited by Huskies (01/21/25 02:10 PM)

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Re: The Official Wild Cubensis Thread [Re: Huskies] * 5
    #29096613 -

Here is a good figure from the paper that shows the lineage of several commercially available cultures.

As I understand it, going up on the chart (lower K-value) shows the least common ancestor. PE is the most inbread and has common ancestry with everything accept Australian genetics. GT is the next most common, etc. Given that wild Australian genetics show no common ancestry gives us hope that wild collections elsewhere are genetically diverse too.

The Luminous group doesn’t appear to have GT genetics either. So, that’s where I’m starting with crosses. I also have an old syringe that is supposedly, β€œWollongong,” a collection from Wollongong, Australia. I haven’t gotten it to take to agar yet though.

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Re: The Official Wild Cubensis Thread [Re: Huskies]
    #29096653 -

^ thanks for finally getting me to understand that chart properly!

Koh Samui has specific genetic markers that corroborate its origins so that seems cool, especially since it DOES have a specific look.

I wonder how these Australian ones look.


--------------------
I call them Huskies cause they Mush!


Huskies' Grimoire
The Official Wild Cubensis Thread
Easy Instant Pot Agar
Let's Talk Cowtek

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: The Official Wild Cubensis Thread [Re: Huskies] * 4
    #29096747 -

I have Sibu in my collection , which was collected wild in Costa Rica and then β€œisolated” according to the vendor

I’ll have to intentionally try it out sometime see if I notice a difference, but I don’t trip often




What the original grows of that culture looked like and what the most recent looks like



I know plenty of vendors offer β€œwild collection varieties” but I do wonder how much they are actually stabilized/stripped of genetic diversity before released


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𝕴𝖋 𝕴 π–π–†π–›π–Š π–˜π–Šπ–Šπ–“ π–‹π–šπ–—π–™π–π–Šπ–— π–Žπ–™ π–Žπ–˜ π–‡π–ž π–˜π–™π–†π–“π–‰π–Žπ–“π–Œ π–šπ–•π–”π–“ π–™π–π–Š π–˜π–π–”π–šπ–‘π–‰π–Šπ–—π–˜ 𝖔𝖋 π•²π–Žπ–†π–“π–™π–˜

:drugnerd: The TekDek v.2    Autist Tally :laugh:

:mushroom2:How to make a TEK:mushroom2:

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Re: The Official Wild Cubensis Thread [Re: Tri] * 13
    #29096760 -

Well, I can definitely contribute here, got plenty of wild cube clones and prints collected from about a hundred kilometre area and even within that small area, while not as much phenological variety in the wild, when grown in tubs the difference is huge, potency in wild fruits vary greatly also, on some occasions I’ve eaten up to 8 large fruits with negligible effects then on other occasions I’ve eaten a small piece of stipe and been floored harder than .75g dried pans of high potency :shrug: shits wild πŸ˜‚
Busy at the moment but I’ll pop back with pics of wild fruits (ones I can find) then their tub grows, I can also contribute F1 spores to those interested, I’ve only attempted 1 cross recently which didn’t take but will be attempting again soon, just spread a little thin for the moment.
Here’s a pic of my first wild grow from spores


Second flush


These bruised green, were below average potency and gave me more of a headache during and after than any other shroom I’ve tried, absolutely beautiful archetypal cube though.


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Clean MS from fresh fruits every time.
How I prep brown rice

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Re: The Official Wild Cubensis Thread [Re: Tri] * 1
    #29096761 -

Was checking around today, found one place that had verified wild prints, but those were actually all out of stock. Some have origin stories, some vendors have pics from the location that verify that a bit more, but yeah, every bit of isolating would be narrowing it down.

I'm guessing if you were to sequence Sibu, even if it was isolated, and that they are telling the truth (seems like they would be since its more recent) it would still show as quite genetically distinct from the rest at least, similar to how the Australians are, they also suffered a giant bottleneck. 

I think the true main issue is the lack of mating pairs found in a mushroom's own genome.

If I were to guess, one cross between something like GT and a wild print would be enough to really revitalize the culture, because there could be SO many new matches.

Let's say you also do Treasure Coast which is strongly in the Luminous group with another wild print from let's say Brazil, that would also be good to go.

Then, pair the offspring from both of those, and you would have a new, international, genetically robust line.

3AM: Nice! DM'ed! Shame about the potency and difficulty. Perhaps wild varieties would benefit from our inbred genes to live in plastic apartments.

Do they look like the wild sample?


--------------------
I call them Huskies cause they Mush!


Huskies' Grimoire
The Official Wild Cubensis Thread
Easy Instant Pot Agar
Let's Talk Cowtek

Edited by Huskies (01/21/25 06:32 PM)

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Re: The Official Wild Cubensis Thread [Re: Huskies] * 3
    #29096791 -

Oh, I’ve got plenty that are potent, that one was found about as far from civilisation as you can get and I’d guess it had evolved to be less potent and there wasn’t as much crossing between genetics from other areas, it was literally the last stop on a dead end road with an hours drive of forest between the nearest paddock.
The fruit it was printed from was half rotten, black with spores and almost mush, couldn’t compare really.


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Clean MS from fresh fruits every time.
How I prep brown rice

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Re: The Official Wild Cubensis Thread [Re: 3.A.M] * 5
    #29096895 -

I have original wild prints still tucked away from Florida, Mississippi, and Alabama... I'll drag those out to plate this week. Nice thread :rockon:


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THE 49TH OYSTER BUCKET TEK

FREE WILL IS A SHADOW

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Re: The Official Wild Cubensis Thread [Re: alaskappalachian]
    #29096909 -

3AM: How much variety do you see in Australia from one patch to the next?

The study indicates that it suffered an initial bottleneck, probably from arriving with cattle, and then stabilized after a while.

alaskappalachian said:
I have original wild prints still tucked away from Florida, Mississippi, and Alabama... I'll drag those out to plate this week. Nice thread :rockon:


:discorex:

How should we go about naming wild varieties for the community, especially in the case when there IS a Florida strain out there? Wild Florida? Florida Gonewild? Wild Florida Username?


--------------------
I call them Huskies cause they Mush!


Huskies' Grimoire
The Official Wild Cubensis Thread
Easy Instant Pot Agar
Let's Talk Cowtek

Edited by Huskies (01/21/25 08:19 PM)

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Re: The Official Wild Cubensis Thread [Re: Huskies] * 1
    #29096929 -

A hilarious solution to that problem would be to name them after their β€œwhat3words” location name of where they were picked :rofl:

For those unfamiliar it’s an app/site where β€œEvery 3 metre square of the world has been given a unique combination of three words”

So if i collected a specimen outside of Okeechobee Florida we could just call it β€œuptown.liquidity.backpacks” :rofl:

https://what3words.com/

https://w3w.co/uptown.liquidity.backpacks


--------------------
𝕴𝖋 𝕴 π–π–†π–›π–Š π–˜π–Šπ–Šπ–“ π–‹π–šπ–—π–™π–π–Šπ–— π–Žπ–™ π–Žπ–˜ π–‡π–ž π–˜π–™π–†π–“π–‰π–Žπ–“π–Œ π–šπ–•π–”π–“ π–™π–π–Š π–˜π–π–”π–šπ–‘π–‰π–Šπ–—π–˜ 𝖔𝖋 π•²π–Žπ–†π–“π–™π–˜

:drugnerd: The TekDek v.2    Autist Tally :laugh:

:mushroom2:How to make a TEK:mushroom2:

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Re: The Official Wild Cubensis Thread [Re: Tri] * 1
    #29096934 -

^ Almost too much info for the g-man! They'd show up with pesticides and bs and kill whatever patches they could find.


--------------------
I call them Huskies cause they Mush!


Huskies' Grimoire
The Official Wild Cubensis Thread
Easy Instant Pot Agar
Let's Talk Cowtek

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: The Official Wild Cubensis Thread [Re: Huskies]
    #29096951 -

Huskies said:
3AM: How much variety do you see in Australia from one patch to the next?

The study indicates that it suffered an initial bottleneck, probably from arriving with cattle, and then stabilized after a while.

alaskappalachian said:
I have original wild prints still tucked away from Florida, Mississippi, and Alabama... I'll drag those out to plate this week. Nice thread :rockon:


:discorex:

How should we go about naming wild varieties for the community, especially in the case when there IS a Florida strain out there? Wild Florida? Florida Gonewild? Wild Florida Username?


I see variety, absolutely, but in over 30 years of hunting I haven’t seen too many that I’d say were significantly different pheno wise, I guess I’m comparing to tame varieties though.

As far as naming I name them by the area I find them, town or street etc


--------------------

Clean MS from fresh fruits every time.
How I prep brown rice

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Re: The Official Wild Cubensis Thread [Re: 3.A.M] * 4
    #29096980 -

Here’s a few ms grows from a print gifted to me by a friend a few towns over



That last one had the best grow and pheno so I printed it, caps got really frilly, called it K.Leigh after the person that found it, no idea which area they got it though.


--------------------

Clean MS from fresh fruits every time.
How I prep brown rice

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: The Official Wild Cubensis Thread [Re: 3.A.M]
    #29096991 -

any notes on potency or any specific trip difference?


--------------------
I call them Huskies cause they Mush!


Huskies' Grimoire
The Official Wild Cubensis Thread
Easy Instant Pot Agar
Let's Talk Cowtek

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: The Official Wild Cubensis Thread [Re: Huskies] * 3
    #29097007 -

Huge variation in potency but I haven’t tried all of them, gets a bit tedious testing every grow after a while, I usually delegate that duty, in fact I’m due a report or 2 so I’ll check in and get back to you.
That first one was by far the least potent, average wild potency is equal to standard tame grows and just like tame grows you’ll get variations from grow to grow.

This one started off extremely promising and I got it from a paddock where I’d found ones similar in pheno to PE, even got blobs, it grew super slow pinning after about a month then stalled for some strange reason, I’ll be trying it again soon.

Named it Stokers for reference , found at Stokers crossing NSW.


--------------------

Clean MS from fresh fruits every time.
How I prep brown rice

Edited by 3.A.M (01/21/25 10:00 PM)

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Re: The Official Wild Cubensis Thread [Re: Huskies] * 5
    #29097025 -

Nice! It'll be interesting to see what new phenos emerge as people begin stabilizing and crossing.

If that has similar phenos to PE, it would be VERY interesting to cross that wild variety with PE, because right now it is the MOST inbred.

Maybe it would revitalize it? Two dicks touching from across the world, docking for the first time instead of jacking it on their lonesomes.


--------------------
I call them Huskies cause they Mush!


Huskies' Grimoire
The Official Wild Cubensis Thread
Easy Instant Pot Agar
Let's Talk Cowtek

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
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Shop: North Spore Bulk Substrate   Mushroom-Hut Liquid Cultures   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Sporeworks.EU Spores for European Microscopy   Original Sensible Seeds Bulk Cannabis Seeds   MagicBag.co All-In-One Bags That Don't Suck   Myyco.com Golden Teacher Liquid Culture For Sale

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