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InvisibleNobler Hino
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Re: Psilocybe natalensis [Re: Zifozonke]
    #26510560 - 03/01/20 01:10 AM (6 months, 16 days ago)

They look like cubes mang. I'd like to add that I've been running golden halos for over a year now and I don't think I've seen a single veil.


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Edited by Nobler Hino (03/01/20 01:13 AM)


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Re: Psilocybe natalensis [Re: Nobler Hino]
    #26510607 - 03/01/20 01:48 AM (6 months, 15 days ago)

It's got super aggressive myc, crazy how it climbs up the walls. As an experiment I shaved off the overlay on a third of of one tub, cased it along with another 1/4 undisturbed. Still have one shoebox untouched.

My guess is this culture could have benefitted from a peat casing shortly after spawn. If I get fruits I'd like to experiment with this for a while. It's an interesting fungi.


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Re: Psilocybe natalensis [Re: Grimsweeper]
    #26521844 - 03/07/20 10:43 AM (6 months, 9 days ago)

Quote:

Grimsweeper said:
I'm getting some crazy overlay on these but from what I've read it's pretty typical and will still fruit. 2 shoeboxes I'm debating scraping one/casing or a portion to see what effect it has. Anyone else fruit these or have overlay like this?





Looks perfect I would not touch the surface. I e noticed the Myc is super fuzzy and almost grows in spheres and takes just a bit longer to fruit. I definitely wouldn’t scrape it

Also yeah the mycelium does not behave like cube myc at all. I wouldn’t be all that surprised to learn that it is just a weird ass cube like penis envy but all of my natal tubs have been tall and skinny, lacking veils, and have some pretty odd gill attachment for a cube. I’ve done around 6/7 tubs and the results are pretty consistent.


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Edited by jbgtaa (03/07/20 11:04 AM)


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Re: Psilocybe natalensis [Re: jbgtaa]
    #26530916 - 03/12/20 02:18 PM (6 months, 4 days ago)

I have tubs of natal super strength colonizing now. My first attempt at mushrooms. I would just like to check what your advice would be on ratio of spawn to bulk substrate for this type and whether I should let the tubs consolidate after its fully colonized or spawn to bulk as soon as fully colonized on the outside.


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Re: Psilocybe natalensis [Re: skyfox]
    #26530987 - 03/12/20 02:51 PM (6 months, 4 days ago)

Treat them the same as cubes. 1qt spawn to 1qt bulk substrate and add a top layer. Nobody knows the perfect conditions for these yet so the top layer is super helpful.

Also I use coir as substrate. I don’t really advocate using dung enriched sub but if you do use it report back with results like colonization time and fruiting


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Re: Psilocybe natalensis [Re: jbgtaa]
    #26531015 - 03/12/20 03:11 PM (6 months, 4 days ago)

Thanks for the reply. Yeah I'm going with coir and vermiculite for this round. Trying to keep it as simple as possible as my first time growing any mushroom. I'll update on progress.


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Re: Psilocybe natalensis [Re: skyfox]
    #26541154 - 03/17/20 06:41 PM (5 months, 30 days ago)

So my overlay continues with a twist. I've tried a couple different things, stripping the overlay, casing one tub and not the other, etc.. It just eats right through Jiffy mix and overlays again. Some of it stiffens a little kinda like blobs but most of it is extremely soft almost like cotton.


I started getting some random fruits in open areas and sides so I stripped it again to clear a path and check this out..



All that mess bruised heavily so it must be active. It's kinda gross and I have tons of mush so I'm not at liberty to bioassay it but it's interesting anyway.

I'm going to clone some fruits in hope to get something more "fruitible" and hopefully get a 2nd flush on the new stripped surface.


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Re: Psilocybe natalensis [Re: Grimsweeper] * 1
    #26541175 - 03/17/20 06:54 PM (5 months, 30 days ago)



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Re: Psilocybe natalensis [Re: bodhisatta]
    #26541184 - 03/17/20 07:00 PM (5 months, 30 days ago)

Your description fits my scenario pretty well bod


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Re: Psilocybe natalensis [Re: Grimsweeper]
    #26547043 - 03/20/20 06:06 PM (5 months, 27 days ago)

These things sure aren't like any cube I've seen before. Kinda has a veil kinda doesn't. Theres a slight remnant of something where the caps pulled away halfway down the stem and they keep growing from there. Tried to watch for spore color but they never dropped before they started getting wonky. Hope I can do better with these with some clones. As screwy as the blob mess is the fruits are really cool.



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OfflineSolipsis
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Re: Psilocybe natalensis [Re: Grimsweeper]
    #26555923 - 03/24/20 10:37 PM (5 months, 23 days ago)

I'm planning on experimenting with this, and especially try to look for what should be actual natalensis. Initially i should get what Zifozonke has first to play with.

Taxonomy confuses me a great deal. There seem to be different ways to approach the question what is a separate species and what isn't, like DNA analysis of a few specific sequences including the ITS.

But i wonder: wouldn't a pretty nice test also be to do a mating study with actual cubensis? Seems like it could with pretty good certainty disprove its a separate species (if it is not), when mating is possible. Although it may not necessarily prove anything if mating is impossible.
Particularly mating that results in (self)fertile offspring.

I downloaded some Mycotaxon scans mjshroomer has shared somewhere else and will read that. I'm curious about the original reasoning for calling this a separate species.

And no, analyzing a different collection of S.A. cubensis and leading that to bash this whole thing and call natalensis not a separate species, that would be very inappropriate so only doing that after going out to make some new collections would be good. However, how would you ever know you collected the same species as Gartz et al did back then, and not collect a S.A. variety of cube?

I wouldnt mind uploading those scans from the mycotaxon article here by the way.

It does include a segment about a second party going to this site in S.A. and finding the mushrooms and confirming that this is the species P. natalensis.
Since it does include a detailed description, I think what we really need is an analysis of this about the tell-tale aspects of the mushroom that tell us it could not be cubensis and see if we can use this in our identifications of our own specimens.

I also wouldn't mind submitting a sample for DNA analysis when i get to that point, but i first wanna gain some confidence that it has a point with the spores I am getting.


Edited by Solipsis (03/25/20 01:12 AM)


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Re: Psilocybe natalensis [Re: Solipsis]
    #26556257 - 03/25/20 03:24 AM (5 months, 22 days ago)

I'm not sure why but these intrigue me it's like a beautiful disaster. I'm challenged to fix it.


My clone plates are showing puffy and wispy growth so I'm going to treat them like pans and transfer the wispy side and see if it helps with the blob/overlay.


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Re: Psilocybe natalensis [Re: Grimsweeper]
    #26557719 - 03/25/20 09:40 PM (5 months, 22 days ago)

Haha! Fix what exactly, the situation / conundrum, or the kinda chaotic growth?

Btw what is your FAE like in that martha? Low enough to fully explain the lankiness? :blush:

So to sum up it seems these are main questions:

- Is this Natal Super Strength strain actually conspecific with the strain/species found (twice) and described in Mycotaxon (I will attach the article and the photos posted by John Allen.)? This is really a requirement to work on this issue and verify or disprove it being a separate species.
- If conspecific (which is NOT to say cubensis being conspecific with natalensis, but merely that NSS appears to be misadvertised as a cube)..., it seems to me that we might all agree on one possibility which is that it might have originated from cubensis and became a really idiosyncratic strain, perhaps due to vicariance idk. (Or cubensis developed out of it lmao xD).. ok all that might sound weird but my point here is what i basically stated before: sounds like the skepticism voiced here could be about whether or not there is reproductive isolation? Because its ancestor could be cubensis without it being a cubensis anymore.
(Take cultivated enoki mushrooms for example... not the same species anymore as the one in the wild it originated from.)
- Or there may be characteristics which somehow defy descriptors of cubensis so much that we just cannot call it an unusually weird variety anymore. Honestly I don't understand taxonomy well enough to make that call.

I'd like those matters addressed, otherwise it seems like a good reason to pick it up in Advanced Mycology.

Maybe a pro mycologist could take a look at the description of natalensis in Mycotaxon to tell us something about possible conspecificity with cubensis.



Can I assume there shouldn't be a problem sharing this? It was already shared publicly elsewhere.

:strokebeard3:


Edited by Solipsis (03/25/20 09:46 PM)


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Re: Psilocybe natalensis [Re: Solipsis]
    #26559140 - 03/26/20 02:46 PM (5 months, 21 days ago)

Solipsis they're lanky because that's how they roll the Martha cycles 3 min every 15.

What I hope to fix is all the crazy wasted growth that's not generating fruits. I speculate it's a combination of culture work and figuring out what it needs environmentally.


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Re: Psilocybe natalensis [Re: Grimsweeper]
    #26559252 - 03/26/20 04:08 PM (5 months, 21 days ago)


This was MS no Martha, just unmodified tub:shrug: idrk how to explain the difference in yield between you and I grim

Also the gill attachment is what makes me believe that this isn’t a cube. Or maybe just a weird as fuck cube


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Re: Psilocybe natalensis [Re: jbgtaa]
    #26559294 - 03/26/20 04:36 PM (5 months, 21 days ago)

My culture is probably just particularly fucky as I haven't seen anyone else's grow as weird and blobby as mine. Your surface does seem to have some of the same characteristics just not as bad.

Btw mine started out in tubs but once the surface was so blobbed up I "birthed" them to the GH.


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Re: Psilocybe natalensis [Re: Grimsweeper]
    #26560261 - 03/27/20 01:51 AM (5 months, 21 days ago)

I can see why you do that I’m forsure but I’ve gotten amazing results from spawning them to coir, using a coir top layer, and letting it play out. Misting semi often, 2 days apart. My theory on why it takes so long is or why yours specifically is blobbing: the conditions to grow these are different from both cubes and pans, or Tamps or semps. Regular shelf conditions like cubes make it take longer than desired, and trying to replicate the perfect conditions makes the yield suffer. Bottom line it’s gonna take a lot of trials to find optimum conditions. I’m started to suspect a spawn run and casing with straight Vern or whatever may do the trick.


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Re: Psilocybe natalensis [Re: jbgtaa]
    #26560291 - 03/27/20 02:34 AM (5 months, 21 days ago)

It colonized really fast for me, both on grain and the sub. I top layered and it plowed right through it to blobmetropolis.

Next run I'm thinking a thicker peat/verm casing earlier on that it can't eat through so easily. If it's still whack I'll start over from spore.


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Re: Psilocybe natalensis [Re: skyfox]
    #26583669 - 04/07/20 12:30 PM (5 months, 9 days ago)

My spawn tub was fully colonized in 10 days, I then added it at 1:3 ratio coir/vermiculite (50/50 tek*) in monotub. Holes are taped up at the moment. Its been 4 days and looking good. Any advice on when to take the next step. Do i wait until fully white on top . Thanks .

trying to upload pics but not succeeding*



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Re: Psilocybe natalensis [Re: skyfox] * 1
    #26590100 - 04/10/20 04:56 AM (5 months, 6 days ago)

Hey guys, I wanna get in on this. Running natalensis myself. Here's my last shoebox and my current shoebox.


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