fiddle_head said:

Fezzgig said:

Just a quick question.  I have a one quart jar with WBS spawn that is ready for bulk.  I had a bunch more, but had trich and tossed it.

I have a small 20 quart monotub that I intended to use the whole jar on. However, I ended up prepping a 64 quart tub as well. 

So, I have one quart of clean spawn.  Should I use the entire quart on the small tub or is it possible to make it stretch for both tubs?  I don’t mind having patience if it just takes longer to fruit.

Alternatively, I had the idea of using 3/4 of the spawn on the small tub and using the remainder to spawn several more WBS jars.

---

just spawn it into the 20qt

---

just sent 2qt 1:3 to a 5L shoebox compressed to the rim

ambigu said:

Often I read that people try to improve a cultivar by selecting a fruit with the best phenotype within a tub, make a spore print, get a clean culture, grow new fruits, and repeat those steps over and over.

QQ: is my assumption correct that this doesn’t work when you isolate a strain on agar every time? My reasoning is that situation every fruit has the same genotype, regardless of what it looks like.

And if so, does this also mean it’s beneficial to send a plate to grain ASAP when it appears clean, so that there is as much genetic diversity as possible?

---

fiddle_head said:

the bare grains and condensation combined with the uneven, sparse growth and milky texture all point unequivocally to bacteria. it can affect both the morphology and behavior of the living mycelium.

---

ambigu said:

ESL = English as a Second Language? The fact that I had to look that up probably already says enough, but yes, definitely true the fact that I just started this year with mushroom cultivation could be a reason as well for mixing up words/not being clear.

I do mean isolation, though. I realise stabilisation as a result of inbreeding also makes it harder to improve traits by selecting, but for this question let’s assume we’re starting from a wild strain.

My assumption is that when you have isolated a strain on agar (= a monoculture or a single strain?), and you let that single strain colonise a tub, the fruits may look different because of non-genetic reasons, but the different traits of the fruit that actually sporulates is not expressed in its spores, so it wouldn’t matter which fruit you would pick to make a spore print.

Does that make it more clear?

---

ambigu said:

ESL = English as a Second Language? The fact that I had to look that up probably already says enough, but yes, definitely true the fact that I just started this year with mushroom cultivation could be a reason as well for mixing up words/not being clear.

I do mean isolation, though. I realise stabilisation as a result of inbreeding also makes it harder to improve traits by selecting, but for this question let’s assume we’re starting from a wild strain.

My assumption is that when you have isolated a strain on agar (= a monoculture or a single strain?), and you let that single strain colonise a tub, the fruits may look different because of non-genetic reasons, but the different traits of the fruit that actually sporulates is not expressed in its spores, so it wouldn’t matter which fruit you would pick to make a spore print.

Does that make it more clear?

---

Mr Piggy said:

UtahGetMeTwo said:

salubrious said:

UtahGetMeTwo said:

I used the tall half pint jars for my first grow and they took a good 3+ weeks to fully colonize/start pinning in the jar.

---

Cheers Utah…will persevere

---

Cheers sir.

999999999 said:

yeah but this one is no bueno, sorry to say.
Mycelium is creamy and it's already too wet inside, bacteria took a leg up

---

Mr Piggy said:

Animate cream cheese.

---

Listen to these cultivators, though. They knows what they talkin about. May want to take another crack at running some new jars.

---

To be fair, I just sent a cake about as disgusting... if not more.  I've never seen anything move so slow.  If a pin hadn't of finally popped it was about compost pile time.

---

Thanks for the feedback everyone… looking back I feel my agar spawn wasn’t clean enough.

Definitely improving..someone posted they don’t take transfers from the leading edge and I seem to be having better success since not taking the leading edge. Starting to look more organised.

ReverendMyc said:

definitely spores. or sunspots. but it is spores.

---

fiddle_head said:

Hey Benson good to see you bud

Stabilization works because with each filial generation you produce you are reducing heterozygosity. When you print you get a random mix of all the genes, and since both parents of your offspring came from the same fruit, it’s just selfing/inbreeding each time you grow out from spore. The dominant allele at the respective gene loci will produce the phenotype in a heterozygous state. (Yy) so that is what we see in gen 1.

The traits we are trying to stabilize could be the product of several genes inherited  as a unit (polygenic) and are often recessive. So when we perform a cross we are looking for candidates in the f1 that look like regular mushrooms. This is because when you cross you are initially expanding the gene pool, adding heterozygosity (same operating principle as back-crossing) These will have the mixed genotype (Yy/yY) but the dominant allele is expressed while our recessive trait is buried. (these are just examples)

This changes in the second filial when genetic recombination can now produce 4 different genotypes at the respective locus or loci instead of just 2. Since you are inbreeding each time you grown from spore you now have the possibility for those recessive traits to appear (Yy x yY = YY, Yy, yY, yy - Once again just a convenient oversimplified example…)

This is why we select early and archive prints from previous gens so we can take a step back on the “chessboard” if our trait appears to have been bred out inadvertently, which is often the case. Pursuing a culture line that is not presenting the traits you want after a few gens is a waste of time and effort. It is a checkmate. Once the traits are bred out they are gone forever. This is why people back cross.

For this reason it is moot to breed out more than 7-8 filial generations. The decrease in heterozygosity is exponentially decreased with each generation. So for this reason it levels out. By the 7th filial the % net loss in heterozygosity is literally the definition of diminishing returns.

TLDR as far as pushing a culture 100+ gens, yes it would be supremely futile. it is costly to hope for a bad culture to improve by moving forwards. The returns on anything past gen 7-8 are negligible.

If I have a winning clone culture I will preserve it on agar and save a “master” wedge in distilled water, or transfer the culture to lc and preserve that way. This way you always have a starting point t to go back to if you need to start over or access the genetic material. Like saving your game. Very similar to saving an early generation print for backcrossing if it should become necessary. You could also just use a slant or plate as your master and store in the fridge.

---