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OfflineFrog
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Kiss my ass
    #2763544 - 06/04/04 03:32 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

I recently was in a fight with the guy with whom I share an office. He has come to the opinion, I guess, that I am beholden to or dependent on him, because I appear, to him, not to have a lot of options. Truth is, I have a lot of options, but I chose to go with him for various reasons...he seemed honest, truthful, etc.

So, he kicked me out of his office. Rather than kiss his ass to stay, I went and found other accomodations within the hour. I then went and thanked him for letting me use the office and told him I would finish up on work I had started, but that I didn't think our temperaments were compatible and so I would no longer be using his office.

I have been told by others that I made a mistake, that I wasn't in the position yet to tell someone to kiss my ass. That I would end up working from my car, or whatever.

I said I would rather work from my car, or the law library, or do whatever else I had to do to survive, than have an office and an opportunity to make more money than I am currently making by kissing someone's ass.

I do not kiss ass. I am not good at following orders that are barked at me, expecting compliance without at least a "please". I realize now that yes, I have an ego, and I think egos are important. We need our egos to survive.

But how much of an ego do we need? How much should we grovel? How much ass should we kiss?

I can take quite a bit of shit. But when someone tries to blame me for his mistakes, or tries to unilaterally change a contract without asking if it's okay first, then I'm not going to just "go" with it. But should I? If it's in my better interests, should I do that much ass-kissing? Should I tear down the ole ego and stay in that office and let myself be kicked around, just for money?


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The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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InvisibleDoctorJ
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Registered: 06/30/03
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Re: Kiss my ass [Re: Frog]
    #2763602 - 06/04/04 03:43 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

without an ego, no one would ever stand up and fight for what they believe in

communist china is a good example of what happens when an entire population decides to have less ego.


--------------------
peace, pot, and microdot!


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OfflineBleaK
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Re: Kiss my ass [Re: DoctorJ]
    #2763709 - 06/04/04 04:10 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

i dunno if i agree the less ego = less will.


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"You cannot trust in law, unless you can trust in people. If you can trust in people, you don't need law." -J. Mumma


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: Kiss my ass [Re: DoctorJ]
    #2763718 - 06/04/04 04:12 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

communist china is a good example of what happens when an entire population decides to have less ego.

What about the communist Soviet Union? Did the Russians all tone down their ego's?


--------------------
You're here because you know something.
What you know you can't explain,
But you feel it;
You've felt it your entire life.
That there's something wrong with the world.
You don't know what it is, but it's there....
Like a splinter in your mind...
Driving you mad.


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Kiss my ass [Re: Frog]
    #2763951 - 06/04/04 05:17 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

If you remember reading one of earlier posts (which are chockful of wisdom), I stated that the difference between a healthy ego and an out-of-control ego is quite simple: with an OOCE, you lose sight of your goals and damage yourself through an emotional outburst.

It is ALWAYS best to leave on your own timing and your own terms. The "proper" method is to find another office/position and THEN leave from a position of power, rather than one of weakness.

The short-term satisfaction for having "told someone off" quickly dissipates.

"Revenge is a dish best served cold." - Khan ("The Wrath of Khan")


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: Kiss my ass [Re: Swami]
    #2764017 - 06/04/04 05:40 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Yeah... one of my pet peeves with people is when they just quit their job and they don't have a new job already lined up. Always quit from a position of power. Any gap in your economic inflow is going to be troublesome. And fuck two week notices if your boss is a cocksucker - just line up a new job and THEN tell him to fuck off in front of as many witnesses as possible (it makes it so much more fun).


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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OfflineRenegade8
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Registered: 10/11/03
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Re: Kiss my ass [Re: Frog]
    #2764030 - 06/04/04 05:47 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Since I just quit my last job by walking out of a 4 hour meeting with my boss and a software rep, you know what I'm gonna say...

I did leave a better job and I miss my stoner assistant, but at some point you have to save your dignity. I think you have to have some ego in order to keep yourself from taken advantage of, the key is learning how to keep it in check when you need to.


--------------------
I'm just see-through faded, super jaded, and out of my mind. - R.I.P. Layne


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OfflineFrog
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Re: Kiss my ass [Re: Frog]
    #2764083 - 06/04/04 06:03 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

To Swami and Sclorch, Okay, just to let yous know, I did line something else up, first.  It only took an hour.  I am associated with quite a few different people.  I went to another attorney's office, made a deal for office space, and then walked out. 

Only, I didn't "walk out".  He kicked me out because I wouldn't kiss his ass.  So the question was, should I have kissed his ass in order to stay?  I found another place, so I suppose the answer is no.  But I would have made more money probably if I had stayed and kissed his ass.  I just don't think I want money that bad.

Who here would kiss ass for money?  Or would you go somewhere else? 

And yes, Renegade.  You walked and found something better. 

Keeping it in check, yes, until you can let it run rampant.  :grin:


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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InvisibleSwami
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Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
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Re: Kiss my ass [Re: Frog]
    #2764285 - 06/04/04 08:11 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Keeping it in check, yes, until you can let it run rampant.

Stay for the extra money until you can afford an AK-47, then...


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineFrog
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Re: Kiss my ass [Re: DoctorJ]
    #2764337 - 06/04/04 09:26 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

I agree with DoctorJ, too. We need an ego to stand up to bad government, too. Just think. If the U.S. didn't have such a strong collective ego, would we have gone to the mid-east (or where ever) to kick the terrorists' asses?


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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OfflineMikeOLogical
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Re: Kiss my ass [Re: Frog]
    #2764372 - 06/04/04 09:42 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

kissing ass tastes lousy and makes your breath smell like ass...

you did the right thing, and you shouldn't look back


--------------------
We got Nothing!
we're no longer selling jars.  :laugh:


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InvisibleZero7a1
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Re: Kiss my ass [Re: Frog]
    #2764416 - 06/04/04 10:04 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

I dont kiss ass at my job. I do what i should... what i know i should do. Im not extra nice to my boss's... Ive wanted to quit so much. I ahte that place. They havent given me a raise since i started working there. I wish i had another job lined up... but im going to have to quit when school starts anyway. Im kind of locked in this shit hole of a job.


--------------------
What?


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Kiss my ass [Re: Frog]
    #2764492 - 06/04/04 10:41 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

In my experience with lawyers (present company excluded) the question of kissing ass to get a client was NEVER in question, so I loudly applaud you for questioning, and following through.

For example, following an auto accident last October where three of us got injured and the car destroyed by a selfish, careless pig in a Lincoln Navigator, our chiropractic office hooked us up with a personal injury attorney. I suppose he was good at sizing up prospective clients, so he told me a "secret" - that he had saved up money for law school by selling balloons of nitrous oxide at Grateful Dead shows for a year or so. Gee, he must be OK, I thought. But, when extra bills came in from the MRI clinic that we went to, and they threatened to sue us if we didn't pay, and we all came away, each of us victims, hundreds of dollars less than agreed upon, he still managed to come out ahead of us and make more money than we did. So, first we had our asses kissed, then we got screwed in the ass. I always noted a very different tonal-quality in the sound of this lawyer's 'good-bye' on the phone. It was cold and dismissive sounding, whereas the affect quality of the rest of the conversation was friendly. I have realized that that brief moment was revealing of his truer self than the ass-kissing affability of the whole conversation.

I do not kiss ass and I do not like having my ass kissed because it is always a manipulation meant to be disarming - just before the coup de grace. I believe that a healthy ego recognizes equal respect between parties as the norm. Adminstrators do not like the fact that I view them as co-workers with specific organizational functions, i.e., delegation. I do not view them as 'superiors,' and I respect logic on the job. My respect is proportionate to their demonstration of logic, not emotion. This means that I intentionally ignore facial expressions and body language that is meant to convey disapproval, or intimidation. If they have something to say, I wait until they vocalize it. I refuse to operate on the level of the emotional subconscious. They can demonstrate their emotion-based ego and minimize logic, and I proceed from there. Usually, the administrators' own recognition of the downright inferiority of their own reasoning is insulting enough to their egos, and I don't have to say a thing to them in anger. Of course, my underlying emotion is "F**k you! I'm 50 years old, I'm not taking s**t from the likes of you; and who the f**k do think you're talking to in the first place?!" I swear they pick that up with just a microexpression on my face, since that's the realm that they dwell in.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


Edited by MarkostheGnostic (06/05/04 10:48 AM)


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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: Kiss my ass [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #2765419 - 06/05/04 04:48 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

To sum up Markos: kissing ass is bullshit.


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Kiss my ass [Re: Sclorch]
    #2765476 - 06/05/04 05:45 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Thanks for translating.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineFrog
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Re: Kiss my ass [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #2765679 - 06/05/04 09:42 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

You should have seen the person whose ass I was supposed to kiss. He was yelling at me last week. I was ready to move out at that point, but then he apologized. But still, I wondered, when did he come by the feeling that he had the right to talk to me like that?

I really didn't understand that. I would never yell at someone. I rarely yelled at my spouse. At the end, I was pissed because of the shit he kept pulling and I lost my temper, but I can't imagine yelling at my spouse that way. Can you imagine yelling at an associate like that?

So, no, I don't kiss ass, and I don't take kindly to being treated like shit.

But I was asking someone else about this, last night. I was trying to figure out how I handled this wrong, to see where I could improve in the future. I figured out that when he first started talking to me as if I was a piece of shit, I shouldn't have argued with him over the substance of the conversation.

What I should have done is stopped it right in the beginning and pointed out to him how he was talking to me. And then I should have walked away and given him time to rethink how he was talking to me.

Seriously, I can't imagine talking to any one in the work environment the way he was talking to me. As if I was his wife or something.


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Kiss my ass [Re: Frog]
    #2765790 - 06/05/04 11:19 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

I lived in a predominantly low-income project for my four years in graduate school. Just beyond my living room was a guy who often beat up his girlfriend: *SLAP* *SLAP* *THUD* [Female crying] "Honey, honey, I'm hittin' ya because I LOVE ya!" Usually, when the abusive language began, I'd put the Allman Brothers'
'Whippin' Post' on the old AR turntable...LOUDLY! (These people hated the Allman's). The shouting would cease and the pounding on my wall would begin. Then I could turn down the music. On THIS occasion, I had to shout back that "I'm callin' the cops!!"

I understand the sick attachment issues that keeps women with abusive males: absentee fathers, or abusive fathers for which a child develops an attachment which is run through with occasional violence and so 'love' becomes 'tinged' with physical violence, and so, in finding a man just like dear ol' Dad, the same dynamics are found and continue. SO WHAT?! Your man is not your Daddy. Kick him in the balls...HARD!! Now, I am not describing your personal situation here, just prefacing about abuse; and of course, one lawyer can't kick her verbally abusive male law partner in the balls, literally, but, a convenient witness could overhear the demeaning, deprecating, character-damaging treatment, and write a letter of complaint to your state bar association. Why the hell not? Listen, your profession is one in which it is next-to-impossible to keep your head above [sewage] water. As far as I am concerned, among your professional peers, there is no such thing as playing dirty, as long as you play legally. Remember the movie 'Dragonslayer'? The symbol of the cross didn't keep a priest from being incinerated by the dragon's Hellfire breath. Fireproof scales from the dragon itself was required for protection - and THEN a razor-sharp blade. Not fighting fire with fire, but with a 'sword of righteousness,' so-to-speak. Hey,

" Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to turn 'a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law - a man's enemies will be the members of his own household'." -Matthew 10:34-36 NIV

I'm just quoting - I didn't say it. The law is your shield, and righteousness your blade. The kind of strike is your choice - something that will be 'instructive' rather than destructive, perhaps.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


Edited by MarkostheGnostic (06/05/04 11:32 AM)


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OfflineGWP
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Re: Kiss my ass [Re: Frog]
    #2771517 - 06/07/04 01:44 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

This person , regardless of his position within the company , his profession or his standing within the community has an exaggerated sense of self importance , which should never be succumbed to by allowing oneself to be addressed in an extremely rude or impolite manner. His obvious inability to communicate satisfactorily , regardless of his profession made it obvious that your future was not within those walls , as this scenario would would repeat itself over and over. I read and re-read often , Susan Scott's " Fierce Conversations " - One conversation at a time , which maybe of interest for future confrontations.


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Kiss my ass [Re: Frog]
    #2771575 - 06/07/04 01:58 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

> DoI tear down the ole ego and stay in that office and let myself be kicked around, just for money?

What does the ego have to do with this? If I keep getting burned every time I put my hand in the fire... when I stop putting my hand in the fire, is it my ego that made me stop? Removing yourself from an abusive situation is not stroking the ego.


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.


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OfflineFrog
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Re: Kiss my ass [Re: Seuss]
    #2771771 - 06/07/04 03:11 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Nicely said, GWP.

Right, Seuss. Well, what I think the ego has to do with it is this:

Why can't I just ignore how he talks to me? If I am so secure in myself (and in my ego), then does it matter that he lost his temper and became an asshole? Isn't it my ego that is saying "fuck you, I'm out of here"?

But yes, balance that against what you said...it's an abusive situation and like GWP said, it's more than likely ripe for happening again. I don't know if my ego is strong enough.


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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