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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: feevers] * 5
    #27478563 -


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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: morrowasted]
    #27478690 -



--------------------


"Blow up your TV, throw away your paper.  Go to the country, build you a home."

- John Prine

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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: feevers]
    #27478834 -

@ feevers- I appreciate you taking the time to post well thought out responses instead of resorting to ad hominem attacks or re-posting tweets and memes. I respect that even if I don't agree with some of what you are saying. I'm also aware of the possibility of the last video I posted seeming like a slight contradiction to the first sentence.

I'm curious what conspiracy theory you think I'm perpetuating? The article I posted a few posts back clearly shows that two of the main vaccine producing companies are "habitual offenders" when it comes to handing out bribes and falsifying or excluding data that negatively affects their profits or image. There's been a lot of settlements won over that. The US government has also been involved in some incredible shady shit over the years, I would be incredibly surprised to see anyone argue against that. As far as scientists, there are numerous examples of doctors and scientists with PHDs questioning some of the data coming out, as well as questioning the transparency of some of the studies it's coming from. People can disagree and attack their credentials all day long, but it doesn't mean it's not happening...nor does it automatically make their concerns invalid. I've personally been finding the data and statics all over the place number wise. So how you are informed on this situation does rely on belief and trust.

I do absolutely agree not everything is black and white. I also agree there is an objective reality, but so many subjective perspectives of it. That's why we are still having this conversation, and likely will be for awhile. It's tiring no matter where you stand on it, but important nonetheless. It's crucial to ask questions. That's how science works. No one has all the answers for what's going on. Anyone who claims to is being dishonest.

Here's a few articles to check out regarding transparency(or overall lack of) in some of the vaccine trials if you are interested. I know they are long and people don't always have time to sift through all these things, but some interesting stuff in there...

https://www.bmj.com/content/374/bmj.n2086

https://www.bmj.com/content/372/bmj.n627

https://www.pnas.org/content/118/29/e2024597118


@ morrow- cute meme. Apparently you can accept all the marvels of modern medicine and still die like a "medieval peasant" though. How else do you want to explain that medical malpractice is so high up on the list for causes of death?

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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: hummingbird] * 1
    #27478853 -

hehe, pnas

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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: Lynnch]
    #27478858 -

Ha, I thought the same thing when I first saw that abbreviation...I've heard shrooms make you gay, but that's anecdotal evidence.

Edited by hummingbird (09/23/21 12:08 AM)

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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: hummingbird]
    #27479006 -

I'm on the fringe of an antivaxxers community and they keep telling each other how AFRAID we vaxxers are.

Kind of like the fucking asshole who called me a fucking asshole when I was a teen :smile:


No, I'm not afraid of a research chemical up my butt or that there are new world order RFID chips made from embryo cells in a vaccine designed to effect a mass dieoff 6to turn us all into slaaaaves!

I'm not afraid of 5G - rather install it today than tomorrow. If you can';t handle your internet shut that fucker down, dont vabndalize infrastructure.

I'm not going to be so antisocial that I say: "My health is strong, I'm not going to do my part in protecting the weak"

If you arent vaccinated for the common antivaxxer reasons, it is a sign that your mental integrity is compromised to such an extent that you are taking the WRONG decision for personal and species survival.

I won't call it "retarded" because IQ has nothing to do with it, in fact plenty of lower IQ people resign to the fact that the world experts know better than them, are out to protect them and line up to get the shot, just like many people of higher IQ do, who recognize the sense of a good vaccine and the expertise they themselves lack.
Its the ones in the kruger dunning gravity well that we will all suffer for,





--------------------
Omnicyclion.org
personal empowerment for the world

Onehomemission.org
truly make a difference

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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: Asante]
    #27479058 -

Asante said:
If you arent vaccinated for the common antivaxxer reasons, it is a sign that your mental integrity is compromised to such an extent that you are taking the WRONG decision for personal and species survival.


Sounds like the plot to a disaster movie, but would you be surprised if a death cult with an ideology based on protecting the planet from our species rose out of this pandemic?
A cult whose sole purpose was instigating the total collapse of civilization, in order that the natural world can recuperate from our destructive tendencies, and to that end, hell bent on spreading the virus as far and wide as possible to accomplish their aim.


--------------------
whether low pressure sucks or high pressure blows...
it's a bugger to cycle in.

even though I'm feeling good
Something tells me I'd better activate my prayer capsule

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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: deucedbi9]
    #27479066 -

Actually, the technology to GM micro-organisms is up for grabs and is becoming increasingly available to evermore insignificant entities.

The Tokyo subway nerve gas attachs were the geralds of a new era, where straight up major chemical and biological weapons will become available and be deployed by ever less organized terrorist orgs.

Also, cyberterrorism is greatly on the rise.


--------------------
Omnicyclion.org
personal empowerment for the world

Onehomemission.org
truly make a difference

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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: hummingbird]
    #27479089 -

hummingbird said:
@ feevers- I appreciate you taking the time to post well thought out responses instead of resorting to ad hominem attacks or re-posting tweets and memes. I respect that even if I don't agree with some of what you are saying. I'm also aware of the possibility of the last video I posted seeming like a slight contradiction to the first sentence.

I'm curious what conspiracy theory you think I'm perpetuating? The article I posted a few posts back clearly shows that two of the main vaccine producing companies are "habitual offenders" when it comes to handing out bribes and falsifying or excluding data that negatively affects their profits or image. There's been a lot of settlements won over that. The US government has also been involved in some incredible shady shit over the years, I would be incredibly surprised to see anyone argue against that. As far as scientists, there are numerous examples of doctors and scientists with PHDs questioning some of the data coming out, as well as questioning the transparency of some of the studies it's coming from. People can disagree and attack their credentials all day long, but it doesn't mean it's not happening...nor does it automatically make their concerns invalid. I've personally been finding the data and statics all over the place number wise. So how you are informed on this situation does rely on belief and trust.

I do absolutely agree not everything is black and white. I also agree there is an objective reality, but so many subjective perspectives of it. That's why we are still having this conversation, and likely will be for awhile. It's tiring no matter where you stand on it, but important nonetheless. It's crucial to ask questions. That's how science works. No one has all the answers for what's going on. Anyone who claims to is being dishonest.

Here's a few articles to check out regarding transparency(or overall lack of) in some of the vaccine trials if you are interested. I know they are long and people don't always have time to sift through all these things, but some interesting stuff in there...

https://www.bmj.com/content/374/bmj.n2086

https://www.bmj.com/content/372/bmj.n627

https://www.pnas.org/content/118/29/e2024597118


@ morrow- cute meme. Apparently you can accept all the marvels of modern medicine and still die like a "medieval peasant" though. How else do you want to explain that medical malpractice is so high up on the list for causes of death?


I was talking more in general than accusing you of pushing a conspiracy theory, but your posts are suggesting that something nefarious may be going on without providing any sort of specifics or proof.

As for the links you posted, I don’t really know anything about the process of an advisory committee meeting. At this stage in the pandemic and vaccine rollout it sounds like more of a formality than anything and that seems like what the FDA was saying, the vaccine already had EUA and had already been given to hundreds of millions of people at that point, it had already gone through the channels and numerous past meetings. Seems dumb to not just have the meeting but it’s not something that stands out as worrisome. The person in the article complaining that there was no control group and that the data was gathered so fast could have spent 5 minutes googling and figuring out why.

The second link just seems like a good example of quality oversight, with hundreds of millions of doses being produced there will be hiccups and this seems like a fairly harmless one that was caught by the systems put in place to test every batch multiple times before distribution. The third article just seems like a whole lot of time put into obtaining results that are essentially common sense.

If I said I didn’t trust riding in a Ford because they have a history of corrupt business practices and Pintos used to blow up if they got rear-ended, would that really be rational? Sure I could connect dots to support my fear, but realistically there are many factors at play and I’d be fine riding in a Ford. If you were in a hospital with severe double pneumonia, would you refuse the antibiotics and take your chances because they were Pfizer brand? What is your specific concerns with the vaccines?

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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: feevers]
    #27479233 -

Quote:
How else do you want to explain that medical malpractice is so high up on the list for causes of death?


because people have come to have the expectation that doctors and medicine are legitimate and actually work (as a result of things like a centuries long vaccination effort completely changing the face of both childhood and Parenthood). and lawyers exist.

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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: morrowasted] * 1
    #27479310 -

Medical malpractice includes people who die from elective Plastic surgery like Joan Rivers


--------------------
:whyyy:

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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: Asante] * 1
    #27479320 -

As a side point as has been repeated in this thread VAERS is not trustworthy because it self reported information used by ambulance chasing lawyers so we should check out the info at the CDC instead which then tells me...

Quote:
Report all cases of myocarditis and pericarditis post COVID-19 vaccination to VAERS.


https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/clinical-considerations/myocarditis.html

I seem to have come a full circle.

Off topic:

hummingbird said:
I do absolutely agree not everything is black and white. I also agree there is an objective reality, but so many subjective perspectives of it.


You might find this paper interesting.

https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciadv.aaw9832

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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: Byrain]
    #27479344 -

The incidence of myocarditis with actual covid infection is incredibly high. 15% of college athletes who got covid at Ohio state had myocarditis. If you want to avoid myocarditis the vaccine is the best way.


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: Asante]
    #27479361 -

Asante said:






Medical errors are the third leading cause of death :eek:

What the fuck?

Getting medical help kills more people than traffic accidents. Explain yoself Morrowasted


--------------------
Ach en wee ben ik de klos, met mijn boog schoot ik een albatros...

A philosopher is a person who knows less and less about more and more, until he knows nothing about everything.


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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: koods] * 1
    #27479376 -

koods said:
The incidence of myocarditis with actual covid infection is incredibly high. 15% of college athletes who got covid at Ohio state had myocarditis. If you want to avoid myocarditis the vaccine is the best way.


The athletes seem to be a unique case study that might not apply to the common person. Too bad there aren't any comprehensive studies available that can show real information on this subject.

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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: Byrain]
    #27479451 -

What? Myocarditis is a known risk factor for covid infection. There’s tons of info about covid related myocarditis

https://www.medpagetoday.com/infectiousdisease/covid19/88487

https://www.geisinger.org/health-and-wellness/wellness-articles/2020/12/08/17/12/i-have-post-covid-myocarditis


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

Edited by koods (09/23/21 02:37 PM)

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AB [Re: Byrain] * 1
    #27479479 -

Quote:
Medical errors are the third leading cause of death :eek:

What the fuck?

Getting medical help kills more people than traffic accidents. Explain yoself Morrowasted


Everyone seeks medical help when they get sick enough. Things like "missed diagnosis" count as "death by medical error". In other words, if someone who never once went to a doctor in their life has a heart attack, gets taken to the hospital, and the hospital treats their heart attack, in doing so saving the person's life. BUT the hospital "prematurely" releases them and they have another heart attack immediately after leaving, resulting in the person's death. The family believes that if the doctors had "just waited a little longer" or "just done one more EKG" or if the surgeons had "just done the CABG instead of the PCI", their loved one would have been saved

Prior to the existence of ambulances, EKGs, nitroglycerin, and coronary artery bypass surgery, that individual would just have died the first time around. That the person's condition was more unstable than doctors believed and the person died as a result of the doctors' failure to save their life again is what is meant by a "medical error", more often than not.

Of course, there are egregious mistakes that get made- people accidentally receiving the wrong blood, or the wrong drug/dose, and dying suddenly as a direct result of that accident. These are very sad instances. The percentage of what ends up getting called "death by medical error" that involve circumstances like these is very small. There are other unfortunate errors like failure to communicate vital information between healthcare providers- perhaps during shift change, or during a patient's transfer from one medical team to another. This constitutes a larger percentage of "death by medical errors" but it is still not suprising at all when you honestly think about it. In our society most people end up having A LOT of decisions "made for them" by doctors towards the end of their lives. It doesn't matter to the deceased's loved ones if 99.9% of those decisions helped the person/prolonged their lives- the one time someone fucks up, the person "died by medical error". Leaving aside that in any other world they would likely have died long long ago from the failure of medicine to exist in the first place.

When people feel things are going badly because they are out of their control, finding someone to blame is the most intuitive reaction.


Part of the reason healthcare costs are so high in this country is because people and lawyers are more "trigger happy" when it comes to lawsuits. I'm not suggesting no doctor or hospital ever deserves to get sued. Of course they do. But when people whose loved ones died as a result of a medical system whose resources (including mental resources of medical personnel) are highly strained sue doctors/hospitals, it only adds to that strain, so that other people are more likely to receive the kind of care that you believe was inadequate.

Edited by morrowasted (09/23/21 05:15 PM)

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Re: AB [Re: morrowasted]
    #27479495 -

I've even heard of a situation where a family sued a hospital after someone self-extubated and subsequently died, arguing that the hospital should have ordered restraints for them- that the person wouldn't have self-extubated and died if we had put them in wrist restraints.

While it is true that we sometimes restrain people's wrists when they are sedated and intubated, suggesting that a hospital is a fault for a person's death because they didn't decide to tie them down is pretty absurd, I hope you can agree. It is not "standard practice". Most intubated people are NOT in restraints. Restraints are a last resort- mostly because we are nice people who don't like restraining others- but also in part because- coincidentally- their OVERUSE is an easy target for the same exact lawyers trying to extract money from the hospital for failing "Underusing" them in this instance

Edited by morrowasted (09/23/21 05:17 PM)

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Re: AB [Re: morrowasted]
    #27479518 -

My godmother died from a medical mistake back in November. Post surgery infection led to sepsis and organ failure. I wasn’t allowed to visit her due to covid restrictions.

The irony is in her will she had set aside a good portion of her estate be donated to same hospital that killed her. They got millions of dollars. Lol


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

Edited by koods (09/23/21 03:20 PM)

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Re: AB [Re: koods]
    #27479523 -

koods said:
My godmother died from a medical mistake back in November. Post surgery infection led to sepsis and organ failure. I wasn’t allowed to visit her due to covid restrictions.

The irony is in her will she had set aside a good portion of her estate be donated to same hospital that killed her. They got millions of dollars. Lol


If you don't mind my asking, though, what was the original surgery for?

If I had a young patient who broke a leg in a car accident, needed a simple reduction surgery, had to get a foley placed for a day, got a CAUTI, and ended up getting sepsis and dying, I would be griefstricken. I'd lose so much sleep. It's never happened that way though. Anytime I've personally seen someone die from sepsis following a surgery, the operation was emergent and necessary in order for the person not to die of whatever they were having surgery for.

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