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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: Asante]
    #27475839 -

Asante said:
Statistics from Africa on Covid are hopelessly inaccurate, come on man.

Two countries that have their shit together are South Africa and Morocco.


Number 1 and 4 in deaths... If you have any real data to share I am all ears, otherwise please stop spreading misinformation.

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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: Byrain] * 1
    #27475842 -

It was at this point he decided his discussion partner wasn't in it to reach a deeper understanding, but for the fuckery.


--------------------
Omnicyclion.org
personal empowerment for the world

Onehomemission.org
truly make a difference

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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: Asante]
    #27475900 -

https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/film/tb-silent-killer/


Watching this will lend you some insight into why comparing supposed health stats in most of Africa with those of developed countries doesn't make sense

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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: morrowasted]
    #27475964 -

Quote:
Again running an experiment by vaccinating people first come first served complete with off label booster shots is near worthless for scientific results and understanding. Where is the control group?


The clinical trials had double blinded controls. What are you talking about?

It’s really hard to take you seriously dude. You continue to hold Sweden up as an example of good covid governance. They got blasted just as hard the second wave unlike their neighbors and unlike New York. Aside from vaccination there is nothing keeping them from having another wave.



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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: koods]
    #27476001 -

CNBC:  Covid is officially America’s deadliest pandemic as U.S. fatalities surpass 1918 flu estimates


Quote:
    Covid-19 is officially the most deadly outbreak in recent American history, surpassing the estimated U.S. fatalities from the 1918 influenza pandemic.
    Reported U.S. deaths due to Covid crossed 675,000, the estimated U.S. fatalities from the 1918 flu, and are still increasing.
    “This is the pandemic I will be studying and teaching to the next generation of doctors and public-health students,” said medical historian Howard Markel.



Bear in mind that America during the Spanish Flu had 104 million residents, not 333 million


--------------------
Omnicyclion.org
personal empowerment for the world

Onehomemission.org
truly make a difference

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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: morrowasted]
    #27476006 -

morrowasted said:
https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/film/tb-silent-killer/


Watching this will lend you some insight into why comparing supposed health stats in most of Africa with those of developed countries doesn't make sense


Comparing the major industrialized countries to each other is problematic. Comparing them to countries that barely have a functioning public health system is silly.

India’s official covid data is a joke. It’s estimated there are ten times as many deaths than their official tally

If you want to reduce the number of variables, compare states in the same general region over the same general time frame. West Virginia compared to Maryland, for example. Utah and Colorado.


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

Edited by koods (09/20/21 07:00 PM)

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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: koods]
    #27476024 -

I only know a few things but one of them is that I think it is funny that 99% of people involved in treating covid devote less time to conversing and "learning" about COVID than some (an unfortunate too many) of y'all do. I'm not smart enough to imagine an alternative set of circumstances where this either didn't happen or was more preventable.


I am gonna be totally honest with y'all. I don't watch the news anymore. I barely follow news about COVID19 anymore. I don't keep up with it even 10% as much as I did in March 2020.

What is true is that on my off periods I eat lsd, plug 2cb and inhale nitrous more than almost anyone I know and I also work in thr most medically involved unit of the biggest public hospital in the fourth biggest metropolitan area of the USA and when I relay anecdotes they are not fabricated. When things weren't bad yet, I was skeptical that they would get bad- anyone who was paying attention at that time, which was literally NONE of the current skeptic crowd (whose interest was piqued when covid became personal, just like it did for us*).  When they did, I had enough faith in society to believe that they wouldn't get worse. My faith doesn't appear to have been well grounded unfortunately. Psychology, as economically useless as it is for most people interested in it, is the only theoretical foundation for conjecturing about what the reason for that is.

Make of that whatever you will.

*Because of our early personal exposure related to the nature of our work, among those of us less prescient than koods and family

Edited by morrowasted (09/20/21 10:02 PM)

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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: morrowasted]
    #27476031 -

Which is not to say that some of y'all who are less directly involved do not have much or frankly even more to contribute than I do. It is only to say that anyone earnestly seeking truth is being foolish not to avail themselves of my anecdote. Failure to do so appears as psychological compensation. I am a particular kind of resource. The kind that if you were friends with, and you had built rapport with, and were having conversations with, you'd be much less likely to spend your time doing what you do. The fact that you are not is an unfortunate circumstance


Honestly I spent a shitload of my time researching covid until the vaccine came out. Then I got the vaccine, continue to live my life, and still never got covid... Or, obviously, any other problems that are purportedly related to vaccination.

Edited by morrowasted (09/20/21 07:34 PM)

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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: morrowasted]
    #27476032 -

Boof 'em if ya got 'em.

:boofgirl:


--------------------


"Blow up your TV, throw away your paper.  Go to the country, build you a home."

- John Prine

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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: schmutzen] * 1
    #27476038 -

namaste said:
Boof 'em if ya got 'em.

:boofgirl:


I make every effort I can to eschew pride and insecurity in my behavior. I have put drugs in many butts. Mine included.

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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: morrowasted]
    #27476158 -


meme found on a nursing forum posted by a frustrated nurse trying to build rapport with a smart but medically uneducated patient






when they say *YOU* can become a patient advocate what they really mean- particularly in the context of the hospitals for the poor, paid for by taxes- is that you, too, can become even more of a drain on public resources

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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: morrowasted]
    #27476184 -

I saw a video yesterday I believe from Kentucky where some do gooder antivax sleaze talked a seriously ill patient into leaving the hospital. The guy could barely breathe and the doctor was begging him to stay. I can’t find the vid now.


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: koods]
    #27476194 -

The steps arent wrong but folks need to realize that resources were already FAR from unlimitated before COVID and that whatever resources they deliberately overcocnsume, they do at the expense a different human in need of medical expertise.


if you are dissatisfied with the limited amounted of medical expertise, I understand.

If only there were a way you could help?

If nothing else... from the sidelines?

Edited by morrowasted (09/20/21 10:09 PM)

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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: koods]
    #27476230 -

Asante said:
It was at this point he decided his discussion partner wasn't in it to reach a deeper understanding, but for the fuckery.


If only you were willing to talk about the data and not dismiss it as invalid without any proposed counter evidence.

morrowasted said:
https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/film/tb-silent-killer/


Watching this will lend you some insight into why comparing supposed health stats in most of Africa with those of developed countries doesn't make sense


So the argument is that there are many unreported people getting sick and / or dropping dead in places like Nigeria while no one is noticing?

If that is the case how do you explain how Nigeria reported 2,997,060 tests while Tunisia reported 2,861,359, but Nigeria found 202,191 cases and 2,661 deaths and Tunisia reported 700,400 cases and 24,527 deaths?

How about looking outside of Africa for a moment, Croatia reported 2,730,993 tests,  392,248 cases and 8,514 deaths.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries

If you want to throw accusations of African data being inaccurate without evidence then the same claim could be made for many countries with just as much validity...

koods said:
Quote:
Again running an experiment by vaccinating people first come first served complete with off label booster shots is near worthless for scientific results and understanding. Where is the control group?


The clinical trials had double blinded controls. What are you talking about?

It’s really hard to take you seriously dude. You continue to hold Sweden up as an example of good covid governance. They got blasted just as hard the second wave unlike their neighbors and unlike New York. Aside from vaccination there is nothing keeping them from having another wave.




Don't be disingenuous, i was replying to:

koods said:
The US is running an experiment in the real world consequences of low vs high vax rates and the data so far is pretty unequivocal


The clinical trails that did exist are far insufficient to draw strong conclusions, what are sorely missing are medium and long term trails.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7996517/

We already been over this, but since you conveniently forgot Finland has a much small population and population density than Sweden. There are many more chances for a virus to be transmitted in Sweden and far more people that could potentially die there. Even with that since September 8th Sweden reported 22 deaths while Finland reported 21. New York reported significantly more.... I'm not sure if you can do this with a phone, but you can use the mouse on a computer to reveal the actual numbers for each of those data points.

The entire point with Sweden is they chose a bold strategy and in is paying off now in the present. Maybe if the USA chose a similar strategy we would already be moving out of this pandemic too? Maybe if we started today we might be on this track by this time next year instead of an endless status quo of vaccinated vs unvaccinated?

Edit: Maybe you would have less difficulty discussing this if you were willing to consider the data without arbitrarily dismissing anything that doesn't fit your narrative?

Edited by Byrain (09/20/21 10:49 PM)

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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: Byrain]
    #27476249 -

Quote:
We already been over this, but since you conveniently forgot Finland has a much small population and population density than Sweden


So what? Population density is irrelevant. The states with the highest per capita number of cases are Tennessee, North Dakota and Florida. I see almost no correlation between population density and case rates.

Finland has 1/10 the death rate of Sweden and you want us to believe it’s because it has a lower population density. You’re not being honest with yourself. These excuses are ridiculous. You’re so desperate to believe Sweden did a good job you are blind to the truth.


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: Byrain]
    #27476254 -

We should start calling you "Galaxy Byrain".


--------------------
https://www.gofundme.com/f/support-for-renee-goods-wife-and-son

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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #27476281 -

Quote:
Edit: Maybe you would have less difficulty discussing this if you were willing to consider the data without arbitrarily dismissing anything that doesn't fit your narrative?


Lol holy shit

Deaths

Norway 841
Finland 1051
Estonia 1350
Denmark 2630

Sweden 14750

I’m so blinded by my narrative I can’t see how great Sweden has done with covid. I’m terrible.


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

Edited by koods (09/20/21 11:34 PM)

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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: hummingbird]
    #27476424 -

Mr.GuessWork said:
hummingbird said:
morrowasted said:



So you're saying it's better because it's cheaper? Are there any adverse side effects from the monoclonal antibodies?

Also...Pfizer made 3.5 billion in the first three months of this year...
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/04/business/pfizer-covid-vaccine-profits.html

Here's Moderna's info, straight from them...Q2 total revenue of $4.4 billion, net income of $2.8 billion and diluted earnings per share of $6.46
https://investors.modernatx.com/news-releases/news-release-details/moderna-reports-second-quarter-fiscal-year-2021-financial

Johnson&Johnson generated 12.59 billion from the vaccine, and 6.9 billion from their medical device units (ventilators?)....
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/07/21/johnson-johnson-jnj-earnings-q2-2021.html


It's all big money for big pharma. People are getting rich off the vaccine too. Just because they were given taxpayer money doesn't mean it's free. Yes, I'm aware of the cost per dose thing...but what if the same push happened for the monoclonal antibodies that did with the vaccine? Seems like the law of supply and demand would drop the price and increase availability...

Red states are using up all the antibodies? Why aren't we incentivizing multiple companies to make more if it works so well? Isn't this about saving lives...or is it a politicized argument about red vs. blue?


Monoclonal antibodies aren't as effective as vaccination, and the cost comparison isn't a political fiction. Monoclonal antibodies are insanely expensive to produce and they're some of the most expensive drugs on the market. There are special orphan drug laws for some of them that allow them to be sold at insane prices just so people with rare diseases can have treatment. Eculizumab was well over $500,000 a year for a single person at one point. There are also potential side effects with any antibody transfusion.


hummingbird said:
They are already getting rich. I'm saying if there was more companies producing monoclonal antibodies, it would be cheaper and more available...which would save more lives. The vaccine alone isn't working for everyone. What if there's a new variant that slips past the booster shot too? We need as many treatment options as possible for when people are sick and dying...whether they are vaccinated or not.


You let one company be the sole producer of a life saving drug, you end up with people like this guy...







Soooo, let's say someone is really sick and dying from covid in the hospital, and they've already had the vaccine (which is happening more frequently than most want to admit)...re-vaccinating them is going to work better than the monoclonal antibodies?

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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: hummingbird]
    #27476489 -

Idk if this has been mentioned recently but I think very early on the explanation for the high rates in places like Spain and Italy and comparatively low rates in Scandinavian countries was something genetic aswell as rates of smoking and body mass.

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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: CHeifM4sterDiezL]
    #27476493 -

Also this is saying all those places only have like 20 million people in the whole region which is like less than the state of Florida which is a total joke. Imagine of those countries had to deal with what we deal with :lolsy:

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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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