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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: hummingbird] * 1
    #27476499 -

hummingbird said:
Soooo, let's say someone is really sick and dying from covid in the hospital, and they've already had the vaccine (which is happening more frequently than most want to admit)...re-vaccinating them is going to work better than the monoclonal antibodies?


Not sure anyone said there's any efficacy in using a vaccine once someone is in a critical condition. Bit like 'bolting the stable door...'

Maybe we should save what is a scarce, and expensive, resource for those that took the relatively small risk of being vaxed, and at least attempted to do the socially responsible thing, rather than give it to the dipshits who refused to take that small risk, prefering the much greater risk of cotracting the actual disease.


--------------------
whether low pressure sucks or high pressure blows...
it's a bugger to cycle in.

even though I'm feeling good
Something tells me I'd better activate my prayer capsule

Edited by deucedbi9 (09/21/21 08:04 AM)

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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: morrowasted]
    #27476522 -

morrowasted said:
meme found on a nursing forum posted by a frustrated nurse trying to build rapport with a smart but medically uneducated patient






when they say *YOU* can become a patient advocate what they really mean- particularly in the context of the hospitals for the poor, paid for by taxes- is that you, too, can become even more of a drain on public resources



The real bitch with this is that patients who depend on family for this kind of advocacy, along with psychological support, often can't get visitors right now thanks to covid precautions. it's hard to advocate for a patient when you aren't allowed in the hospital to see them.

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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: Mr.GuessWork]
    #27476834 -

Since we're talking about covid I thought I'd share this little story here from another thread.

Quote:
I made a terrible decision to go to a Phish show a month ago and I was exposed to hundreds of people on the lot and in the show.


It was a terrible choice. However, 6 days later I got a covid test and came up negative. I was non-symptomatic but I wanted to be sure. I had completed both Mdoerna shots about a month prior.

SO if that's not proof that the vaccine works I don't know what it is. Because I *KNOW* people at that show and in the lot had covid. IT was everywhere. I had to have been exposed. I stopped at every tent on Shakedown street and was talking to tons of people.

NO ONE WAS WEARING A MASK! Not a single person. - Once again. Really bad decision on my behalf, but it was my birthday and I had FREE tickets to the Phish show and they were going for like $400 just for a damn lawn ticket.


Once again- dumb decision on my behalf that I won't be repeating-- but yeah. I've seen lots of the dead and company shows live from youtube and they look like some really chill fun!- But the virus thing is for real.



I want to mention- this was BEFORE The Delta Variant.

Now that delta is here I would NOT be repeating that. Even for a $400 ticket.


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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: deucedbi9]
    #27476846 -

deucedbi9 said:
hummingbird said:
Soooo, let's say someone is really sick and dying from covid in the hospital, and they've already had the vaccine (which is happening more frequently than most want to admit)...re-vaccinating them is going to work better than the monoclonal antibodies?


Not sure anyone said there's any efficacy in using a vaccine once someone is in a critical condition. Bit like 'bolting the stable door...'

Maybe we should save what is a scarce, and expensive, resource for those that took the relatively small risk of being vaxed, and at least attempted to do the socially responsible thing, rather than give it to the dipshits who refused to take that small risk, prefering the much greater risk of cotracting the actual disease.


There could be a potential benefit to getting the vaccine early in the disease process or after exposure. Some diseases that progress slowly can be stopped after infection by a vaccine. Rabies is a good example.


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: koods]
    #27476878 -

There was a lyme disease vaccine but society wasn't smart enough for it


--------------------
:whyyy:

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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: bodhisatta] * 1
    #27476891 -

Vaccines for bacteria don’t usually work that well


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: koods] * 1
    #27476915 -

Antibiotics are effective up to three months after initial infection with Borrelia (which causes Lyme)


--------------------
Ach en wee ben ik de klos, met mijn boog schoot ik een albatros...

A philosopher is a person who knows less and less about more and more, until he knows nothing about everything.


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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: Tripsurfer]
    #27476945 -

Quote:
So the argument is that there are many unreported people getting sick and / or dropping dead in places like Nigeria while no one is noticing?




there is no argument being made. I am showing you why it is not useful to compare health stats from most of Africa with stats from the USA.

Those goals depend upon the starting conditions,
You don't expect a patient who comes in with an ejection fraction of 25% to leave without heart failure. You set reasonable goals


Also medical care and community health stats for infectious disease is handled mostly by charity

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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: morrowasted]
    #27477160 -

Lymes disease is also not nearly as transmissible or prevalent as covid. It's not contagious, and if you don't get a tick bite, then you don't get lymes disease. It's incidence is pretty low, and it has nowhere near the public health impact that covid has. I don't know much about any vaccines for borrelia, but I suspect it would be worth considering not taking a vaccine for it since most people don't have much exposure risk. Lots of vaccines aren't worth taking if you look at the epidemiology. We don't do small pox vaccines anymore, as an extreme example, because exposure risk is about zero, and the vaccine still has small risks associated with it. Lots of other vaccines are only used for people who travel to areas where the illness is endemic. Everyone has almost guaranteed exposure risk for covid at this point though, and the risk of morbidity/mortality from infection is huge compared with most other prevalent illnesses, so it's very easy to justify widespread use of highly effective vaccines that have next to no adverse effects.

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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: Mr.GuessWork]
    #27477280 -

Quote:
So the argument is that there are many unreported people getting sick and / or dropping dead in places like Nigeria while no one is noticing?


This happens in the US. If you die of covid outside of a hospital without ever seeking medical attention you may not ever be counted as a covid death

Rich industrialized countries had a hard time keeping up, you think poor African countries have any chance of accurately accounting for deaths


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

Edited by koods (09/21/21 07:54 PM)

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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: koods] * 2
    #27477594 -


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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: koods]
    #27477719 -

koods said:
deucedbi9 said:
hummingbird said:
Soooo, let's say someone is really sick and dying from covid in the hospital, and they've already had the vaccine (which is happening more frequently than most want to admit)...re-vaccinating them is going to work better than the monoclonal antibodies?


Not sure anyone said there's any efficacy in using a vaccine once someone is in a critical condition. Bit like 'bolting the stable door...'

Maybe we should save what is a scarce, and expensive, resource for those that took the relatively small risk of being vaxed, and at least attempted to do the socially responsible thing, rather than give it to the dipshits who refused to take that small risk, prefering the much greater risk of cotracting the actual disease.


There could be a potential benefit to getting the vaccine early in the disease process or after exposure. Some diseases that progress slowly can be stopped after infection by a vaccine. Rabies is a good example.



My main point is we need to be exploring more treatment options. Seems like manufactured scarcity to me with the monoclonal antibodies to me. It certainly wouldn't be as scarce and expensive if more people were working on producing them or finding new cheaper methods to produce them. So many people seem to be ridiculing any ideas for treatment that come along and seem to think the vaccine will just make it all go away. The risk from the vaccine and the risk from the disease are closer than most think, and who knows for the long term.

There's a growing number of vaccinated people getting really sick. My cousin is a National Guard medic in Oregon, and he just admitted this to me. The whole Guard is activated to help in hospitals right now. The hospital he's at has a lot of people who got the shot who are really sick with covid too. IDGAF if someone's vaccinated or not, saving lives is saving lives. I'm not getting into all the politicized finger pointing stuff, it's dumb and beside the point in the big picture. Either you care about saving lives or you don't. Not everyone is going to get vaccinated, they aren't all "dipshits", and they don't deserve to die or be refused treatment just because of that.

@koods- Yeah, idk. That could be the case in some cases, but I could easily see it going the other way and making things worse or not having much effect at all. Rabies is quite different than covid, but I get the point you are trying to make.

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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: hummingbird] * 2
    #27477727 -

Quote:
  The risk from the vaccine and the risk from the disease are closer than most think,


Not even close.


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: hummingbird]
    #27477734 -

hummingbird said:
koods said:
deucedbi9 said:
hummingbird said:
Soooo, let's say someone is really sick and dying from covid in the hospital, and they've already had the vaccine (which is happening more frequently than most want to admit)...re-vaccinating them is going to work better than the monoclonal antibodies?


Not sure anyone said there's any efficacy in using a vaccine once someone is in a critical condition. Bit like 'bolting the stable door...'

Maybe we should save what is a scarce, and expensive, resource for those that took the relatively small risk of being vaxed, and at least attempted to do the socially responsible thing, rather than give it to the dipshits who refused to take that small risk, prefering the much greater risk of cotracting the actual disease.


There could be a potential benefit to getting the vaccine early in the disease process or after exposure. Some diseases that progress slowly can be stopped after infection by a vaccine. Rabies is a good example.



My main point is we need to be exploring more treatment options. Seems like manufactured scarcity to me with the monoclonal antibodies to me. It certainly wouldn't be as scarce and expensive if more people were working on producing them or finding new cheaper methods to produce them. So many people seem to be ridiculing any ideas for treatment that come along and seem to think the vaccine will just make it all go away. The risk from the vaccine and the risk from the disease are closer than most think, and who knows for the long term.

There's a growing number of vaccinated people getting really sick. My cousin is a National Guard medic in Oregon, and he just admitted this to me. The whole Guard is activated to help in hospitals right now. The hospital he's at has a lot of people who got the shot who are really sick with covid too. IDGAF if someone's vaccinated or not, saving lives is saving lives. I'm not getting into all the politicized finger pointing stuff, it's dumb and beside the point in the big picture. Either you care about saving lives or you don't. Not everyone is going to get vaccinated, they aren't all "dipshits", and they don't deserve to die or be refused treatment just because of that.

@koods- Yeah, idk. That could be the case in some cases, but I could easily see it going the other way and making things worse or not having much effect at all. Rabies is quite different than covid, but I get the point you are trying to make.



I'm not sure how efficacious monoclonal antibodies are in a vaccinated person. If you're vaccinated then the chances are pretty good that you've had a high antibody titer throughout the whole course of the infection, so I doubt there's much benefit to adding more artificial antibodies late in the infection. The problem with producing monoclonal antibodies isn't manufactured scarcity either. monoclonal antibodies are a bitch to produce and maintain. they're made from fusions of cancer cells and antibody producing cells, and then those cells are cultured to produce antibodies. It's not the kind of thing that is cheap and easy to start or scale. People who rely on that kind of thing instead of taking a free and way more effective preventative are way more likely to die regardless of whether or not anyone thinks they deserve it. People who are relying on monoclonal antibodies to save their lives are being dipshits, and some of them are dying because they made a bad choice that requires them to compete with other dipshits for a scarce resource that's not as effective as a free preventive measure.

There is active research looking into antivirals and that kind of thing, but most of the therapeutics people are ridiculing are ones that are being publicly accepted as effective despite evidence to the contrary. Ivermectin was not going to save many people even if the whole population took it, and that was before the big paper supporting it's use got retracted. Right now, there's not much past vaccination and monoclonal antibodies that helps, and even those are still not ideal.

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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: koods] * 1
    #27477761 -

koods said:
Quote:
  The risk from the vaccine and the risk from the disease are closer than most think,


Not even close.



If that were true the vaccine would be the leading cause of death in the world, over malaria right now.

Its completely not.

I'd like to see a risk comparison between trumpers squirting horse dewormer in their mouths and more rational people getting vaccinated.


--------------------
Omnicyclion.org
personal empowerment for the world

Onehomemission.org
truly make a difference

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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: koods] * 1
    #27477853 -

Quote:
  The risk from the vaccine and the risk from the disease are closer than most think,


Most ignorant post of the week award goes to :cookiemonster:

I know the week isn't over but let's be real this won't be beat


--------------------
:whyyy:

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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: hummingbird]
    #27477871 -

hummingbird said:
My main point is we need to be exploring more treatment options. Seems like manufactured scarcity to me with the monoclonal antibodies to me. It certainly wouldn't be as scarce and expensive if more people were working on producing them or finding new cheaper methods to produce them. So many people seem to be ridiculing any ideas for treatment that come along and seem to think the vaccine will just make it all go away. The risk from the vaccine and the risk from the disease are closer than most think, and who knows for the long term.

There's a growing number of vaccinated people getting really sick. My cousin is a National Guard medic in Oregon, and he just admitted this to me. The whole Guard is activated to help in hospitals right now. The hospital he's at has a lot of people who got the shot who are really sick with covid too. IDGAF if someone's vaccinated or not, saving lives is saving lives. I'm not getting into all the politicized finger pointing stuff, it's dumb and beside the point in the big picture. Either you care about saving lives or you don't. Not everyone is going to get vaccinated, they aren't all "dipshits", and they don't deserve to die or be refused treatment just because of that.

@koods- Yeah, idk. That could be the case in some cases, but I could easily see it going the other way and making things worse or not having much effect at all. Rabies is quite different than covid, but I get the point you are trying to make.


It’s a coronavirus that we have a vaccine for, of course a ton of money/effort is being spent on developing treatments but we literally have a vaccine for it. We don’t need a full scale push for polio treatments, because we have a vaccine for it. Why would any sane and rational person choose not to take an extremely well studied vaccine that over half of the population have received safely but then gladly take untested new therapeutics for Covid? How much of it is because vaccines are pointy and cause ouchies?

Your “my cousin said” story is meaningless. Nikki Minaj’s cousin said the vaccine gave his friend superballs. Anecdotes are pointless when all the data for Oregon hospitalization rates and vaccine data is one google search away, if you care enough to spend your time posting about this stuff at least care enough to inform yourself first.

As for the vaccine dangers being close to the virus, the only one that even looked somewhat comparable or concerning was myocarditis in teenage boys. It was still very rare to begin with but now the data is looking like they’re more than 4x at risk for it if they get Covid itself compared to getting the vaccine, so it’s a non-issue especially considering the small amount who get it from the vaccine would likely also have gotten it from the virus due to their susceptibility.

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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: feevers] * 2
    #27477875 -

ATTENTION IVERMECTIN USERS:

Ivermectin cannot replace vaccination. If you however decide to use it, be advised that you are recommended to take a dose that corresponds with your lean weight.

If you are obese, calculate the dose on the weight you would have if not obese, or you may overdose yourself.

The appropriate human doses can be looked up in human medical databases.


--------------------
Omnicyclion.org
personal empowerment for the world

Onehomemission.org
truly make a difference

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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: Asante]
    #27477897 -

I've never seem a horse with covid-19.

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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: Crazy_Horse] * 1
    #27477907 -

Asante said:
koods said:
Quote:
  The risk from the vaccine and the risk from the disease are closer than most think,


Not even close.



If that were true the vaccine would be the leading cause of death in the world, over malaria right now.

Its completely not.

I'd like to see a risk comparison between trumpers squirting horse dewormer in their mouths and more rational people getting vaccinated.


For a young and/or healthy person getting the virus and then dying is unlikely, the serious side effects of the vaccines are also unlikely. Which is more likely? I don't think the data to make this determination is actually available...

Crazy_Horse said:
I've never seem a horse with covid-19.


its relatively rare for viruses to cross the species barrier, so while some species like cats can potentially carry it there are lot of animals that won't. I have not heard one way or another concerning horses.

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