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Invisiblehummingbird

Registered: 06/30/14
Posts: 1,158
Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: Crazy_Horse]
    #27480544 - 09/24/21 11:43 AM (29 days, 4 hours ago)

@ Koods- I was going by the data on that graph Tripsurfer shared on the last page that Asante originally posted. You asked about conflicting data? Where's yours from? I also never said unvaccinated people in my community or anywhere else are "magically not getting sick". I said that a lot of vaccinated people are too. Two very, very different statements there. Nice try.

Also, mRNA vaccines are a new technology that hasn't really been used before rolling out this whole campaign. I'm aware of how it's said to work. The long term data isn't in yet, things don't always work the same in real life as they do on paper.

@ feevers- I've said previously that things are probably different all over. If what I say isn't the story where you live it doesn't automatically make either of our claims untrue(looking at you too Koods on that). There's no need to place blame, but blame is being placed.

If it's the cytotoxic spike proteins causing damage, how is it crazy to assume the vaccine doesn't cause similar damage as the actual virus? If the virus has long term negative side effects, why is it far fetched to say the vaccine can too? We have a circulatory system, how does it make sense that the spike proteins from the vaccine just stay in the area of the injection site? If that's true, would you just have immunity where the shot was administered then? If that's true, why are some people getting so sick from the vaccine? How is there no risk in taking the vaccine, all vaccines have some degree of risk, right?

I don't agree that the only two ways to stay safe from a virus are to get vaccinated or stay away from people. Those two things absolutely help, yes, but there are plenty of things one can do to take responsibility for their own health and fight off viruses. Proper nutrition, exercise, avoiding environmental toxins, etc. There's a bunch of herbs with antiviral properties too(cue the shitstorm?) There's always anomalies and chance of unknown underlying conditions, but many pre existing conditions also come from poor health choices. I know some are also unfortunately genetic as well.

Again, I don't doubt this vaccine can help some people from being infected or lessen the chance for serious complications from getting the virus...but the vaccine isn't completely risk free either. I have no idea why people keep saying that. I also will agree some awful diseases have been drastically minimized or basically eliminated by vaccines in the past, maybe that will be true for this one...or maybe not. Time will tell.

I would like to add that I'm not vilifying the medical industry as a whole or something. You guys out there on the front lines are doing work very few people want to deal with, often overworked and worn out from the constant battle. It's never really the soldiers on the front lines that are responsible for starting wars. The people at the top are so often able to manipulate people and skirt responsibility while getting very rich in the process.


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InvisibleByrain

Registered: 01/07/10
Posts: 9,664
Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: hummingbird] * 1
    #27480558 - 09/24/21 11:52 AM (29 days, 4 hours ago)

Quote:

hummingbird said:
I would like to add that I'm not vilifying the medical industry as a whole or something. You guys out there on the front lines are doing work very few people want to deal with, often overworked and worn out from the constant battle. It's never really the soldiers on the front lines that are responsible for starting wars. The people at the top are so often able to manipulate people and skirt responsibility while getting very rich in the process.




:thumbup:

There are a lot of doctors and scientists in the world trying to do their best to fight the pandemic including within the government. A single rotten fruit can spoil the bunch.


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Offlinenan0
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Registered: 01/17/21
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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: Psion]
    #27480624 - 09/24/21 12:37 PM (29 days, 3 hours ago)

Quote:

Psion said:

what does quantum physics have to do with genetics, agriculture, or biology? people didn't go to steven hawking for open heart surgery or questions about how to sew a new fashionable dress - at least, i hope they didn't. just because you have a PhD in one field doesnt make you an expert in every field. you can be a genius in your own field and a complete idiot in every other subject. hell, with enough money you can even be a complete moron in your own subject....




It's irrelevant, I knew I was going to get attacked on that point. Nice work ignoring all the rest of the post..


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OfflineCHeifM4sterDiezL
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Registered: 07/28/10
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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: nan0]
    #27480664 - 09/24/21 01:08 PM (29 days, 3 hours ago)

I still can't really smell right. What the fuck am I gonna do koods and everyone else pushing the vaccine. Who's gonna pay for this is the government just expected to foot the bill wtf?


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Offlinefeevers
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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: CHeifM4sterDiezL]
    #27480737 - 09/24/21 02:02 PM (29 days, 2 hours ago)

Quote:

hummingbird said:
Also, mRNA vaccines are a new technology that hasn't really been used before rolling out this whole campaign. I'm aware of how it's said to work. The long term data isn't in yet, things don't always work the same in real life as they do on paper.

@ feevers- I've said previously that things are probably different all over. If what I say isn't the story where you live it doesn't automatically make either of our claims untrue(looking at you too Koods on that). There's no need to place blame, but blame is being placed.

If it's the cytotoxic spike proteins causing damage, how is it crazy to assume the vaccine doesn't cause similar damage as the actual virus? If the virus has long term negative side effects, why is it far fetched to say the vaccine can too? We have a circulatory system, how does it make sense that the spike proteins from the vaccine just stay in the area of the injection site? If that's true, would you just have immunity where the shot was administered then? If that's true, why are some people getting so sick from the vaccine? How is there no risk in taking the vaccine, all vaccines have some degree of risk, right?

I don't agree that the only two ways to stay safe from a virus are to get vaccinated or stay away from people. Those two things absolutely help, yes, but there are plenty of things one can do to take responsibility for their own health and fight off viruses. Proper nutrition, exercise, avoiding environmental toxins, etc. There's a bunch of herbs with antiviral properties too(cue the shitstorm?) There's always anomalies and chance of unknown underlying conditions, but many pre existing conditions also come from poor health choices. I know some are also unfortunately genetic as well.

Again, I don't doubt this vaccine can help some people from being infected or lessen the chance for serious complications from getting the virus...but the vaccine isn't completely risk free either. I have no idea why people keep saying that. I also will agree some awful diseases have been drastically minimized or basically eliminated by vaccines in the past, maybe that will be true for this one...or maybe not. Time will tell.

I would like to add that I'm not vilifying the medical industry as a whole or something. You guys out there on the front lines are doing work very few people want to deal with, often overworked and worn out from the constant battle. It's never really the soldiers on the front lines that are responsible for starting wars. The people at the top are so often able to manipulate people and skirt responsibility while getting very rich in the process.




Can you identify one possible method of action that would allow an mRNA vaccine to cause any single long-term side effect that lays dormant for an unidentified period of time then magically pops up down the line without any previous physiological marker of its existence up until that point identified in the hundreds of millions of people who received the vaccine? Do you think that your paranoia is more valid than the opinion of essentially the entire medical and research community? Do you think they haven’t considered these mysterious “long-term side effects”, and ruled them out based on the method of action of the vaccine, the decade of human and animal research with this mRNA technology, and the fact that those type of side effects don’t happen with vaccines?

I never said your story was untrue, you were using a second hand anecdote to push a viewpoint that is not backed up by any data, including the data I looked up from Oregon on vaccinated vs unvaccinated hospitalized Covid patients. It’s just a pointless way to communicate when discussing these things, ignoring all the overwhelming stats out there to highlight one thing you heard a person say.

The spike protein isn’t causing damage with the vaccine. The virus infects cells through membrane fusion, proteins generated by the vaccine are not capable of that. Similar to an allergic reaction, the extremely rare severe vaccine side effects are often caused by an over-reactive or dysregulated immune response. These responses are far less common with the vaccine than with the actual virus, probably due to the controlled and localized exposure compared to a systemic infection with a live replicating virus. If you’re afraid of having a bad response from the vaccine, you should be scared shitless of having a bad response from the virus.

How did being young fit and healthy work out for all the college and professional athletes who got myocarditis from Covid? I believe the one place where it was actually studied (most people don’t get regular heart imaging done) the rate was like 15% after infection? Why are many of the people flocking to their doctors and newly formed long-Covid clinics not the elderly and obese, but people who were previously healthy? Would all the people with undiagnosed medical issues, many of which have absolutely zero to do with their lifestyle, be better off risking a virus that can kill them instead of just getting an extremely safe and effective shot?

I don’t think you have bad intentions, but you are just extremely far removed from the reality of the situation and the facts and statistics of what’s going on, yet you still seem tied to your irrational views. Should I spend my time on an architects forum, debating with them about some physics youtube video I just watched and how there are no long term studies that these buildings that they built and are posting pictures of won’t just fall down and kill people in 10 years? Or maybe it’s better to concede based upon all the data that they have a base of knowledge (that I don’t possess) that allows them to be so sure that the roof on my house won’t fall down on me tomorrow. Skepticism is healthy when it’s rational, knowing when it’s rational involves having a decent amount of knowledge of the subject matter... otherwise it’s simply unfounded paranoia.

Nutrition, exercise, herbs etc... or just being young and living a non-sedentary lifestyle free of excess may help protect most people from having a compromised immune system that is overwhelmed to the point of death. It does not lower your risk of infection, your body will still take time to identify an invader, analyze it, formulate an immune response, and get to work ridding itself of that virus. This is not a quick process. In the meantime, the virus is replicating, invading your cells and causing damage to your body. Depending on factors such as the viral load and areas where the virus has spread to, that damage and scarring may be long term or permanent, increasing your risk of further disease and suffering in the future, or just creating symptoms that stick with you long after, despite how sick you felt while infected. Many symptoms that make us feel bad while sick are just the feelings of various immune responses occurring. This is not a common cold or flu virus, this virus causes destruction in a seemingly endless amount of ways in a significant number of people it infects.

Compare that to the vaccine, which lessens your risk of getting infected in the first place, and allows your body to mount a nearly immediate immune response to clear the virus it’s already familiar with. People have this new-agey view of their body as some temple that will fight off invaders “naturally” and come out stronger as part of this natural process... that’s just not reality. In reality there’s nothing special or magical about your body, even if you walk away fine getting a virus it leaves you less physically healthy than you were before getting the virus with the only benefit being some immunity and future protection against the virus that you just got. Nature doesn't give a shit about keeping you alive and healthy, vaccines are designed specifically for that purpose by the creative and intelligent brain that evolution gave us, naturally.


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OfflineIma Trooper
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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: CHeifM4sterDiezL]
    #27480760 - 09/24/21 02:24 PM (29 days, 1 hour ago)

Quote:

CHeifM4sterDiezL said:
I still can't really smell right. What the fuck am I gonna do koods and everyone else pushing the vaccine. Who's gonna pay for this is the government just expected to foot the bill wtf?




Who is going to pay for what? That sucks you're sick though. I'm assuming you've gotten a positive COVID test result, did you use a PCR or the rapid test?

I ask because I just started feeling "meh" today, but it could still be nothing. Currently trying to schedule a test ASAP.


--------------------
"Its moving of its own accord...and I like that in a shirt!" - Me, tripping.

deCypher said:
Schizophrenia beats dining alone, you know.


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Offlinemorrowasted
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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: Ima Trooper] * 2
    #27480973 - 09/24/21 06:15 PM (28 days, 21 hours ago)

gonna go get a third pfizer shot on Monday


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OnlineBaby_Hitler
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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: morrowasted] * 1
    #27481136 - 09/24/21 09:16 PM (28 days, 18 hours ago)

Why Don't Black People Trust the Covid Vaccine? - a painted video essay




--------------------
(•_•)
<) )~  ANTIFA
/ \
\(•_•)
( (>    SUPER
/ \
(•_•)
<) )>    SOLDIERS
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Don't vibe my harsh, bro.


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Offlinenamaste
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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: Baby_Hitler] * 3
    #27481152 - 09/24/21 09:25 PM (28 days, 18 hours ago)



--------------------


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OfflinePsion
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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: CHeifM4sterDiezL] * 1
    #27481210 - 09/24/21 11:05 PM (28 days, 17 hours ago)

Quote:

CHeifM4sterDiezL said:
I still can't really smell right. What the fuck am I gonna do koods and everyone else pushing the vaccine. Who's gonna pay for this is the government just expected to foot the bill wtf?





from what i have heard, the sense of smell and taste is heavily tied to emotion and memory. so one thing you can try that has worked for some people, is to gather a variety of memorable scents, such as lemon, cinnamon, mint, lavender, etc - things you can easily recognize that are distinct from each other and are tied to memories and distinct emotions for you. like, the scent of coffee might bring the emotion and memories of waking up in the morning, lavender might bring calming memories and emotions, etc.

gather those scents, and for a couple minutes a few times a day, spend a few moments breathing each scent in turn, conjuring the memories and emotions each scent evokes while breathing that scent in and trying to recall what that scent smells like as best as you can. because of how interconnected memory,emotion, and the olfactory nerves are connected, activating one also tends to activate the other, which is why familiar scents can also bring back memories or conjure emotions. this exercise is basically using this to your advantage to help regenerate and rewire those screwed up olfactory nerves.

I did this when i got a chemical burn in my nose and lost my own sense of smell and it worked to get my own ability to distinguish scents right back within a few days, just as strong as before. First day after trying the technique things smelled kind of off, second day they started to smell right but faint, third day things were mostly back to normal, and by the fourth things were pretty much good as new again.


Edited by Psion (09/24/21 11:06 PM)


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InvisibleByrain

Registered: 01/07/10
Posts: 9,664
Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: feevers] * 1
    #27481251 - 09/24/21 11:51 PM (28 days, 16 hours ago)

Quote:

feevers said:
Can you identify one possible method of action that would allow an mRNA vaccine to cause any single long-term side effect that lays dormant for an unidentified period of time then magically pops up down the line without any previous physiological marker of its existence up until that point identified in the hundreds of millions of people who received the vaccine?




The data to support or refute the long term safety of the mRNA vaccines is not available, the bottom line that the technology is unprecedented as is the way it was rolled out without adequate studies. Now when a healthy person becomes sick after taking a vaccine it will be very hard to determine if its as result of the vaccine or just incidental.

I strongly suggest reading this paper even if its a bit long and dense, it goes into great depths about this subject.

https://ijvtpr.com/index.php/IJVTPR/article/view/23/51


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Invisiblehummingbird

Registered: 06/30/14
Posts: 1,158
Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: feevers]
    #27481405 - 09/25/21 06:35 AM (28 days, 9 hours ago)

Interesting article Byrain, definitely highlights some of my personal concerns with possible vaccine side effects.


Quote:

feevers said:
Compare that to the vaccine, which lessens your risk of getting infected in the first place, and allows your body to mount a nearly immediate immune response to clear the virus it’s already familiar with. People have this new-agey view of their body as some temple that will fight off invaders “naturally” and come out stronger as part of this natural process... that’s just not reality. In reality there’s nothing special or magical about your body, even if you walk away fine getting a virus it leaves you less physically healthy than you were before getting the virus with the only benefit being some immunity and future protection against the virus that you just got. Nature doesn't give a shit about keeping you alive and healthy, vaccines are designed specifically for that purpose by the creative and intelligent brain that evolution gave us, naturally.





Your body wouldn't be familiar with the virus itself...just the spike proteins it produces. If your body attacks the source of the spike protein production, which in the case of the mrna vaccine is the body itself...could autoimmune issues be possible? I don't think anyone can truly answer that...at least yet anyways. It's all kind of an ongoing study right now still in the big picture.

You might find this interesting if you think a virus can only leave you worse off than before you got it-
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6177113/

We still have so much to learn about nature. If you don't allow yourself to lose your sense of wonder, it's all pretty special and magical, our bodies included. It's kind of sad to view it otherwise in my opinion. After reading that part you wrote my girlfriend and I did an experiment of sorts. We danced around the house all silly singing about how special and magical our world and bodies are. Stress gone. It felt like good drugs honestly, and I have no doubt that it has healing potential. I hope someone else tries it too. Maybe even toss in something like that you believe in your body's ability to heal itself. Just let go and be ridiculous, laugh even. It's often said a big factor in cancer patient's survival rate depends on their attitude. How can the placebo effect sometimes actually bring positive health benefits to a control group... Could it actually be quantum physics in action?

Quantum physics has everything to do with everything really. If energy can share and influence the properties of matter, the implications of that are incredibly vast. The entire universe, maybe multiple dimensions of it...is composed of particles and waves. If we can affect the outcome of an experiment just by observing it, what does that say about our perception? I'm aware this is a field that even the experts can't really explain easily or even fully grasp, but it would would certainly relate to biology...given life is matter and energy. That also all seems special and magical to me, but those are just adjectives at the end of the day.


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Onlinekoods
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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: hummingbird]
    #27481421 - 09/25/21 07:24 AM (28 days, 8 hours ago)

Quote:

  If your body attacks the source of the spike protein production, which in the case of the mrna vaccine is the body itself




The source of the spike protein is always a cell. Proteins are made in cells. mRNA is the instruction set that the cell uses to synthesize proteins. All the vaccines used in the US get inside a cell and make a spike protein using mRNA. The virus does this as well.

The vaccines for the most part only make spike proteins in the arm muscle. There’s a small amount of dispersion. The virus makes spike proteins in cells all over your body, mainly the lungs, fat cells, the heart, the lining of blood vessels and the nasopharyngeal area.


--------------------
I am a violent pusher of the neo-marxist SJW agenda to destroy society.


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InvisibleByrain

Registered: 01/07/10
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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: koods]
    #27481694 - 09/25/21 12:57 PM (28 days, 3 hours ago)

Quote:

koods said:
The source of the spike protein is always a cell. Proteins are made in cells. mRNA is the instruction set that the cell uses to synthesize proteins. All the vaccines used in the US get inside a cell and make a spike protein using mRNA. The virus does this as well.




You just made the part about all vaccines in the US using mRNA to create spike proteins.

But consider this hypothetical scenario...

Quote:

5. Bovine Viral Diarrhea: A Disturbing Model

Bovine Viral Diarrhea (BVD) is an infectious viral disease that affects cattle throughout the world. It is a member of the class of pestiviruses, which are small, spherical, single-stranded, enveloped RNA viruses. The disease is associated with gastrointestinal, respiratory and reproductive diseases. A unique characteristic of BVD is that the virus can cross the placenta of an infected pregnant dam. This can result in the birth of a calf which carries intra-cellular viral particles which it mistakes as `self.’ Its immune system refuses to recognize the virus as a foreign invasion, and, as a result, the calf sheds the virus in large quantities throughout its life, potentially infecting the entire herd. It has become a widespread practice to identify such carrier calves and cull them from the herd in an attempt to curtail infection (Khodakaram-Tafti & Farjanikish, 2017).

It seems plausible that a dangerous situation may arise in the future where a woman receives an mRNA vaccine for SARS-CoV-2 and then conceives a child shortly thereafter. The sperm would be free to take up RNA-embedded liposomes from the vaccine and convert them to DNA using LINE-1. They would then produce plasmids containing the code for the spike protein which would be taken up by the fertilized egg through the process described above. The infant that is born is then potentially unable to mount antibodies to the spike protein becausetheir immune system considers it to be `self.’ Should that infant get infected with SARS-CoV-2 at any time in its lifespan, its immune system would not mount a defense against the virus, and the virus would presumably be free to multiply in the infant’s body without restraint. The infant would logically become a super-spreader in such a situation. Admittedly, this is speculation at this time, but there is evidence from what we know about retrotransposons, sperm, fertilization, the immune system and viruses, that such a scenario cannot be ruled out. It has already been demonstrated in mouse experiments that the genetic elements in DNA vector vaccines, which are essentially plasmids, can integrate into the host genome (Wang et al., 2004).  In fact, such a process has been suggested as a basis for Lamarckian evolution defined as the inheritance of acquired traits (Steele, 1980).




We're only planning on experimenting on 70% of the world's population.

Quote:

koods said:
The vaccines for the most part only make spike proteins in the arm muscle. There’s a small amount of dispersion. The virus makes spike proteins in cells all over your body, mainly the lungs, fat cells, the heart, the lining of blood vessels and the nasopharyngeal area.




Quote:

1. Biodistribution of mRNA Vaccines Several studies on mRNA-based vaccines have confirmed independently that the spleen is a major center of activity for the immune response.

A study on an mRNA-based influenza virus vaccine is extremely relevant for answering the question of the biodistribution of the mRNA in the vaccine. This vaccine, like the SARS-CoV-2 vaccines, was designed as lipid nanoparticles with modified RNA coding for hemagglutinin (the equivalent surface fusion protein to the spike protein in corona viruses), and was administered through muscular injection. The concentration of mRNA was tracked over time in various tissue samples, and the maximum concentration observed at each site was recorded. Not surprisingly, the concentration was highest in the muscle at the injection site (5,680 ng/mL). This level decreased slowly over time, reaching half the original value at 18.8 hours following injection. The next highest level was observed in the proximal lymph node, peaking at 2,120 ng/mL and not dropping to half this value until 25.4 hours later. Among organs, the highest levels by far were found in the spleen (86.69 ng/mL) and liver (47.2 ng/mL). Elsewhere in the body the concentration was at 100-to 1,000-fold lower levels. In particular, distal lymph nodes only had a peak concentration of 8 ng/mL. They concluded that the mRNA distributes from the injection site to the liver and spleen via the lymphatic system, ultimately reaching the general circulation. This likely happens through its transport inside macrophages and other immune cells that take it up at the muscular injection site. Disturbingly, it also reaches into the brain, although at much lower levels (Bahl et al., 2017). The European Medicines Agency assessment report for the Moderna vaccine also noted that mRNA could be detected in the brain following intramuscular administration at about2% of the level found in the plasma (European Medicines Agency, 2021).




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Onlinekoods
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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: Byrain]
    #27481764 - 09/25/21 02:31 PM (28 days, 1 hour ago)

Your citation confirms I was correct. The spike protein is made mostly in the muscle tissue.

Quote:

You just made the part about all vaccines in the US using mRNA to create spike proteins.



You could have taken the time to learn how it works before posting more misinformation 
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/health/johnson-johnson-covid-19-vaccine.html

Quote:

After the vaccine is injected into a person’s arm, the adenoviruses bump into cells and latch onto proteins on their surface. The cell engulfs the virus in a bubble and pulls it inside. Once inside, the adenovirus escapes from the bubble and travels to the nucleus, the chamber where the cell’s DNA is stored.

The adenovirus pushes its DNA into the nucleus. The adenovirus is engineered so it can’t make copies of itself, but the gene for the coronavirus spike protein can be read by the cell and copied into a molecule called messenger RNA, or mRNA.

The mRNA leaves the nucleus, and the cell’s molecules read its sequence and begin assembling spike proteins.




--------------------
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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: koods] * 1
    #27481799 - 09/25/21 02:55 PM (28 days, 1 hour ago)

Quote:

It seems plausible that a dangerous situation may arise in the future where a woman receives an mRNA vaccine for SARS-CoV-2 and then conceives a child shortly thereafter. The sperm would be free to take up RNA-embedded liposomes from the vaccine and convert them to DNA using LINE-1. They would then produce plasmids containing the code for the spike protein which would be taken up by the fertilized egg through the process described above. The infant that is born is then potentially unable to mount antibodies to the spike protein becausetheir immune system considers it to be `self.’ Should that infant get infected with SARS-CoV-2 at any time in its lifespan, its immune system would not mount a defense against the virus, and the virus would presumably be free to multiply in the infant’s body without restraint. The infant would logically become a super-spreader in such a situation. Admittedly, this is speculation at this time, but there is evidence from what we know about retrotransposons, sperm, fertilization, the immune system and viruses, that such a scenario cannot be ruled out. It has already been demonstrated in mouse experiments that the genetic elements in DNA vector vaccines, which are essentially plasmids, can integrate into the host genome (Wang et al., 2004).  In fact, such a process has been suggested as a basis for Lamarckian




The mRNA is not the antigen. The spike protein is the antigen. As soon as the mRNA enters a cell it gets ratcheted throughout a ribosome and then it’s broken down. It can’t be converted to DNA. Sperm are not normal cells and don’t have the cellular machinery to make proteins from mRNA like other cells.

You’re really out of your depth here. You really should take the time to learn how this stuff works before making up bizarre scenarios that depend on functionality that doesn’t actually exists.

You are fear mongering


Edited by koods (09/25/21 03:10 PM)


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Invisiblepsi
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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: koods]
    #27481899 - 09/25/21 04:38 PM (27 days, 23 hours ago)

Yeah there are no mechanisms in the cell to copy anything from RNA to DNA. Retroviruses like HIV can do this, but they need their own gene for a reverse transcriptase enzyme to do so, because the cell otherwise lacks that capability.


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InvisibleByrain

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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: psi]
    #27482146 - 09/25/21 09:27 PM (27 days, 18 hours ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Your citation confirms I was correct. The spike protein is made mostly in the muscle tissue




Not surprisingly you didn't actually read it, the site of injection is only one location.

Quote:

koods said:
You could have taken the time to learn how it works before posting more misinformation 
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/health/johnson-johnson-covid-19-vaccine.html




Why are you so insistent on sticking to ridiculous points such as "All the vaccines used in the US get inside a cell and make a spike protein using mRNA."?

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/hcp/conversations/understanding-vacc-work.html
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/different-vaccines/mrna.html

No one else is denying that mRNA vaccines are a relatively new technology without a strong historical precedent...

Quote:

psi said:
Yeah there are no mechanisms in the cell to copy anything from RNA to DNA. Retroviruses like HIV can do this, but they need their own gene for a reverse transcriptase enzyme to do so, because the cell otherwise lacks that capability.




The proposed mechanism is explained above the section I pasted. Its a bit too much to paste here, I suggest starting at, "Potential for Permanent Incorporation of Spike Protein Gene into human DNA" on page 26, the rest is worth reading too. The point is we have moved into a unprecedented situation in the world and its hard to predict how it will turn out now. That hypothetical may not end up happening (Hopefully), but its only one out of many.

I'm not even arguing that the pharmaceutical corporations are necessarily nefarious, but greedy and negligent. Imagine that you have billions of dollars on the line, about a decade worth of work, a fraction of the required time and have been told that you can NOT fail. If you say no you can be replaced with someone that says yes and if you fail to deliver the next mega corporation will be there to take the billions. What would you do?


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InvisibleByrain

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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: Byrain]
    #27482184 - 09/25/21 10:19 PM (27 days, 17 hours ago)

Here is another possible scenario.

Quote:

Emergence of Novel Variants of SARS-CoV-2

An interesting hypothesis has been proposed in a paper published in Nature, which described a case of serious COVID-19 disease in a cancer patient who was taking immune-suppressing cancer chemotherapy drugs (Kemp et al., 2021). The patient survived for 101 days after admission to the hospital, finally succumbing in the battle against the virus. The patient constantly shed viruses over the entire 101 days, and therefore he was moved to a negative-pressure high air-change infectious disease isolation room, to prevent contagious spread.

During the course of the hospital stay, the patient was treated with Remdesivir and subsequently with two rounds of antibody-containing plasma takenfrom individuals who had recovered from COVID-19 (convalescent plasma). It was only after the plasma treatments that the virus began to rapidly mutate, and a dominant new strain eventually emerged, verified from samples taken from the nose and throat of the patient. An immune-compromised patient offers little support from cytotoxic T cells to clear the virus.

An in vitro experiment demonstrated that this mutant strain had reduced sensitivity to multiple units of convalescent plasma taken from several recovered patients. The authors proposed that the administered antibodies had actually accelerated the mutation rate in the virus, because the patient was unable to fully clear the virus due to their weak immune response. This allowed a “survival of the fittest” program to set in, ultimately populating the patient’s body with a novel antibody-resistant strain. Prolonged viral replication in this patient led to “viral immune escape,” and similar resistant strains could potentially spread very quickly within an exposed population (Kemp et al., 2021). Indeed, a similar process might plausibly be at work to produce the highly contagious new strains that are now appearing in the United Kingdom, South Africa and Brazil.

There are at least two concerns that we have regarding this experiment, in relation to the mRNA vaccines. The first is that, via continued infection of immune-compromised patients, we can expect continued emergence of more novel strains that are resistant to the antibodies induced by the vaccine, such that the vaccine may quickly become obsolete, and there may well be demands for the population  to undergo another mass vaccination campaign. Already a published study by researchers from Pfizer has shown that vaccine effectiveness is reduced for many of these variant strains. The vaccine was only 2/3 as effective against the South African strain as against the original strain (Liu et al., 2021).

The second more ominous consideration is to ponder what will happen with an immune-compromised patient followingvaccination. It is conceivable that they will respond to the vaccine by producing antibodies, but those antibodies will be unable to contain the disease following exposure to COVID-19 due to impaired function of cytotoxic T cells. This scenario is not much different from the administration of convalescent plasma to immune-compromised patients, and so it might engender the evolution of antibody-resistant strains in the same way, only on a much grander scale.  This possibility will surely be used to argue for repeated rounds of vaccines every few months, with increasing numbers of viral variants coded into the vaccines.  This is an arms race that we will probably lose.




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Invisiblememes
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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: Byrain]
    #27482237 - 09/26/21 12:04 AM (27 days, 16 hours ago)

The other day I got a antibodies test, because i figured i must have antibodies.  I got UBERSICK (wheezing lungs, 103 fever, dead for 3 weeks) back in feb 2020 and have been fine since, no covids.

test came back negative, couldn't believe it!

be safe homies.





i'm scoopin that J&J soon


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