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Re: Physical deprivation necessary for spirtual learning? [Re: Frog]
    #2730108 -

yeah, I hear that.

When some one stole my bike recently, I was initially like: "fuck, some prick stole my bike", but after meditating on the situation for a while I came to the realization that; its just a bike, its just metal, its not even real, its all a mental construct or whatever.

now I walk, and I listen to the wind, it says: "No worries, No hurries".


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and you know it like a poet, like....babydoll

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Re: Physical deprivation necessary for spirtual learning? [Re: Positronius]
    #2730390 -

Yes!  It's the importance we put on things that cause us to become upset when something happens to our "things".  If we realize that things are just temporary, that they don't matter, then if something happens to those things, we aren't going to stress out over them.

That bike would have rusted or broken or something in 20 years or so, anyways.  Or you would have sold it, or junked it, or whatever.  So even if it was brand new at the time it was stolen, is it worth your peace of mind to get upset over the loss?

Besides, payback (karma) is a bitch.  You can bet that prick lost something of equal value when he stole your bike.  :grin:


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The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard

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Re: Physical deprivation necessary for spirtual learning? [Re: Randolph_Carter]
    #2734415 -

Until attachment from the world is attained to a certain extent, ascesis, (whether it includes celibacy, simple living, simple food, no frivolous amusement, etc.) may be a necessary part of one's spiritual practice. Once one has understood the relative importance of worldly achievement, as opposed to the absolute importance of identification with Spirit, it is then perfectly fine to introduce detachment into attachment. One can then live [comfortably] in the world, without necessarily being 'of' the world.

I mean, I own some nice things: pool home w/fireplace, on a golf course, sports car, library, etc., and I would really not like to be robbed, or the house destroyed by fire, hurricane, tornado. I would be devastated by the loss. BUT, my identity is not dependent upon these things. My purpose in life has nothing to do with the acquisition of material objects for their own sake, or to brag about or show off with. Moreover, I was a poor student for a full decade, and after my loss to divorce, I once again lived with boards and block furniture for four years until I found my current house at a ridiculously low price (a gift from GOD), and have taken joy in furnishing/decorating house and property since '96. But my home is all about contemplation. It is all about tripping and inner exploration. Every room and hallway is a testament to this value. The pool is my 'Zen rock garden' - the water is clear when my mind is clear, and when things are in harmony. I cultivate the clarity of the water myself. Right now it is a bit milky, but all the algae is gone as are all the stains. Similarly, I have some mental haziness but only minor problems . The little palms I planted now surround the pool laden with coconuts. This year I can illuminate them and hang my hammock between them. I give thanks to GOD every day for the priviledge of home ownership. I dug cutting the lawn, edging and blowing the clippings this evening. Tomorrow, after my workshop, I'm going to seal the driveway. Farout. Thank you LORD.

Does this help answer your question at all? I'm gonna have to leave my stuff behind ultimately, my body and thoughts included. I need to be mindful of this while in the midst of all enjoyment - not morbidly, but to balance the mindless attachment with which we take things for granted. I take nothing for granted - I give thanks for everything and remain mindful of its impermanence.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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Re: Physical deprivation necessary for spirtual learning? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #2735597 -

the water is clear when my mind is clear

Clearing your mind kills the algae or is it the chlorine? I must be missing something. I know plenty of folks with clear pools and cluttered minds. Never knew of the link between zen and the harming of single-celled aquatic creatures.


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The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: Physical deprivation necessary for spirtual learning? [Re: Randolph_Carter]
    #2735611 -

Forget ALL of the books that you have read about spirituality and materialism as here is the bottom line: having more wealth only makes you more of WHO YOU ALREADY ARE. If you are greedy and selfish, then you will be that way making minimum wage or $500,000 per annum. However, if you are loving and giving, then having great wealth gives you many more opportunities to express your creativity in helping others.

You think ascetics lose their ego? Think again. "Hey, look at me, I can go without food for two weeks, sit in meditation for 6 hours, exhale for 4 minutes and wrap my feet behind my head." I am not saying that is necessarily where ascetism leads, but ego traps (such as spiritual arrogance) are everywhere.


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The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: Physical deprivation necessary for spirtual learning? [Re: Swami]
    #2736381 -

physical deprevation can be alot of things, such as eating healther foods and drinking water rather than soda pop, fasting, being alert in talking with another person instead of in one ear and out the other while the whole time your just thinking about your own well being or pleaseur, treating your body as the temple of God, keeping the marrige bed pure, serving others rather than "self", those are and many others are "physical" things that we can carry with us evryday and put to practice in our daily lifes to become better people and spread the Light.On the material end of things all is well if ya don't put your trust in riches, cause ya can't buy "true" happiness, is it wrong to have things? of course not as long as you don't put your trust in them and are able to surrender them.(Spiritual Arrogance) as swami stated is a big trap that people relly don't see, instead of the faucet being wide open it just kinda trickles and there not able to get the full benifit, kinda stop growing or grow at a slower pace,anyway peace Gypsy


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"Well the first days are the hardest days." When life looks like easy street there is danger at your door.....

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Re: Physical deprivation necessary for spirtual learning? [Re: Swami]
    #2739399 -

Dude...stop trying so hard to be an a**hole. I'm not talkiing cause-and-effect chemistry here. When 'things' are going well, there is a parallel phenomenon with my pool. I have more time to use the nylon and wire brush, observe the sheen on the surface which changes with chlorine content, observe the cloudiness which changes with PH content, and the wind which carries algae-causing soil to be blown in, along with rain during various pollen densities, along with humidity which slows evaporation rate, and the heat-wind combination which causes rapid evaporation al-l-l-l-l effect the water quality. You will notice that 'I' am in the above variables, and 'I' am effected by more variables than I can list, but al-l-l-l theses variables sometimes screw up the water, and sometimes make the water crystal clear, but when it is crystal clear, it is partly because of my involvement and partly my mind is in a state of clarity [at least from concerns about water clarity] when the water is clear. Is this cyclical, is this nonsensical? To you, I'm certain it is, but the Japanese mystic had his Bonzai tree, and I have my swimming pool, so buzz off.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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Re: Physical deprivation necessary for spirtual learning? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #2739457 -

Dude...stop trying so hard to be an a**hole.

*holds up mirror*

(Actually it is quite effortless, like Zen!)

Why is it ALMOST ALWAYS the self-proclaimed "spiritual" types are the first to anger and name-call? Is it rigidity or ...? Try getting a sense of humor my brother.


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The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: Physical deprivation necessary for spirtual learning? [Re: peleg]
    #2739488 -

physical deprevation can be alot of things, such as eating healther foods

Please explain how eating healthy foods is in any way a deprivation. "Please don't make me eat any more of that range-fed beef and fresh garden salad..."


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The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: Physical deprivation necessary for spirtual learning? [Re: Swami]
    #2739495 -

Maybe he's just having a rough day. Could be the mustard algae....


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Note: In desperate need of a cure...

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Re: Physical deprivation necessary for spirtual learning? [Re: Swami]
    #2739570 -

Quote:
Why is it ALMOST ALWAYS the self-proclaimed "spiritual" types are the first to anger and name-call? Is it rigidity or ...? Try getting a sense of humor my brother.



Time and time again Arif sheikh's have said "When you find a wise man, listen to him.". Few people here seem to actually understand the depth in wisdom of Markos' posts, let alone appreciate them. His presence on the Shroomery speaks to me like Thomas or the discourses of Rumi. Of what I've been through with Markos as a friend, it's just as insulting to me to refer to him as a "self-proclaimed spiritual type.", someone who I see as my teacher in gnosis. Your comment mocking the spiritual undertows of the mundane parables in life was benighted and childish.

Edited by Zahid (05/27/04 10:46 PM)

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Re: Physical deprivation necessary for spirtual learning? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #2739602 -

MarkostheGnostic said:
Dude...stop trying so hard to be an a**hole.


"Do, or do not. There is not try!"
- Master Yoda


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To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.

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Re: Physical deprivation necessary for spirtual learning? [Re: Zahid]
    #2739613 -

In siddhartas search for enlightment he tried physical deprivation as a method of reaching his goal, but then drank rice milk,and realized that the only way to reach enlightment is to look on this enside, regardless your physical state. Its all psychedelic.

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Re: Physical deprivation necessary for spirtual learning? [Re: Zahid]
    #2739634 -

Few people here seem to actually understand the depth in wisdom of Markos' words..
Yes, his words are deep, but calling another an asshole belies his true heart and emotional control (at least at that moment).

Your comment mocking the spiritual undertows of the most simple things in life was benighted and childish.
I see, so being verbally abusive is a sign of maturity?

Bottom line: beliefs proclaimed and beliefs lived may be worlds apart. If there were no venom in him then none would come out. Simple.


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The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: Physical deprivation necessary for spirtual learning? [Re: Swami]
    #2739759 -

Markos didn't call you an asshole, frankly it was description of your intentions behind playing Devil's Advocate of sorts when there is no reason to. Go ahead, cling to the "You call names!" elementary notion. You remind me of Ali Khan, a not-so-intelligent Muslim radical I do salat with who attempts to refute anything esoteric that I utter, quoting the same ayahs in the Qur'an over and over again like the book is his gun, the hadith his hidden dagger and each ayah and narrative a bullet of supposed inevitable conclusion that smacks me in the face. Let's face it, sometimes common sense dictates when someone is being a jerk - and you my friend were acting like a jerk. Am I name calling? Go cry in your pillow. At least I don't hold other people up to obscene and puerile standards.

Edited by Zahid (05/27/04 11:26 PM)

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Re: Physical deprivation necessary for spirtual learning? [Re: Zahid]
    #2739868 -

So hard... so brittle...

The bones of child are more flexible than those of his grandfather. For this reason alone, the child is able to recover more quickly from hard falls.


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Note: In desperate need of a cure...

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Re: Physical deprivation necessary for spirtual learning? [Re: Sclorch]
    #2739892 -

:heart:

Edited by Zahid (05/28/04 12:31 AM)

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Re: Physical deprivation necessary for spirtual learning? [Re: Sclorch]
    #2739903 -

Isn't there a thread here somewhere on emotional control?


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The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: Physical deprivation necessary for spirtual learning? [Re: Swami]
    #2740537 -

Why do YOU 'think' that oral sadistic cutting sarcasm is humor. Humor, as in the seed syllable 'HUM' which refers to the enlightened [Hum]an Heart, is a 'cosmic smiley face.' YOUR communications only engender laughter from other contemptuous individuals, so don't even go there with that fake 'I've got a sense of humor and everyone else takes their own s**t too seriously' stuff. I'm certainly not "the first to anger and name call," since as a rule, I never open your posts, and only respond to you when you respond to me.

Allow me to be the first individual today to say that I'm tired of seeing you inflict your suffering self on more-or-less trusting individuals. You're only attacking your own former trusting, naive self - the one that got crushed in your own personal trauma - forevermore attacking anyone who reminds you of your own former naivete and uncritical faith in life. There's no levity in your comments - you don't 'lift' people up, you pull them down, neither is there any helpfulness in your delivery - just hurtfulness. The sarcastic method is NOT the same thing as the Socratic method, hello-o.

BTW, if YOU deem me spiritually-identified, it means nothing, since your statement already assumes that "anger" has no place in a 'spiritual' human being, which is ridiculous. Suppression is not spirituality. Am I "rigid?" Sometimes. Am I spiritual? More than many, less than some. Am I tired of seeing maliciousness being "self-proclaimed" as humor? Absof**kinglutely. I DO have a sense of humor and it intends to impart joy to people, which is the nature of real humor. Have a nice day Swami.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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Re: Physical deprivation necessary for spirtual learning? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #2740762 -

MarkostheGnostic said:
Why do YOU 'think' that oral sadistic cutting sarcasm is humor.


The concept of what is funny is subjective. I have never seen any sadistic comments by Swami, could you please provide some quotes with links?


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To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.

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