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Project Turing - Crossing Enigma x Rustywhyte * 11
    #27144464 -

Enigma is a phenomenon, (in)famous for not producing any spores at all. So I set out to look for a strain that wouldn't be able to produce any rusty spores at all. :P

Through di-mono mating of Enigma and Rustywhyte respectively... a new cross was yielded, rather it would have resulted in two different pure strains. Both a result of the cross: one for each different nucleus that came from the dikaryon (or rather, note heterokaryon) parent. I don't really know very well yet in what sort of pattern these two strains sector on the dish the cross was done on, but I do have some ideas about it. Particularly from when I did the same thing with Orissa x Rustywhyte.

In any case: whereas the (repeatedly confirmed by 1000x microscopy - or at least supported since it can be tricky to prove a negative) RW monokaryon could never pin... The newly created cross pinned remarkably: without a lot of waiting compared to the average culture, and apparently the parent dikaryon while it can itself also pin on such a dish, seems to do so with much less gusto.

I took transfers of what seemed convincing to me, from a place on the agar that surely would have had to be a focal point of mating and below are the results of the first that I grew out. Later I took two more agar pin clones to try and see if those were the same strains or not, with to me less than satisfying results. That part of the work I will soon share more pics and details of.

By the way... feel free to post below / ask questions or send me a message if you wish to talk about something but do not PM me about availability, please. Answers addressing such matters I will post in due time, in accordance with rules of the forum etc etc.
Turing is the working title of this endeavor, obviously this has barely even begun to get bred into one or more cultivars, i am not presuming anything like that.

But here first, let me show the grow, and add some extra descriptions after posting: 



I'm interested in researching what may play a role in genetics / biology to make Enigma or others before or after it in the PE lineage the way they are and how they seem to involve different sorts of mutations than various recessive traits which act in more typical Mendelian ways. It is very nice however, that a lot of fun stuff already happens in the F1 and is not necessarily too discrete.

What seems to be going on is, it starts by blobbing in ways we know from Enigma. Pretty hard, amorphous mycelium, it appears to be stipe tissue, really. No sign of any caps at all. Well apart from some exceptions that is, of a couple normal looking pins.



I was still incubating these without fruiting conditions. But just given a little more time, it seemed like from the blobs themselves, fruits started to differentiate. I do have a pet hypothesis why this might be, however I am not sure what might be the most relevant triggers throwing the switch.









An essential part of the project was the question: can you get (viable) spores? Or rather: how close can you get to the Enigma trait and still produce spores?
Well, I can tell you it produces spores just fine, even from the freaky inside out gills - but I still need to check them out under microscope, or probably even sooner: try to germinate them. I think it should be fine - didn't seem like there were problems in the meiosis or anything, but rather developing any hymenium to begin with.

I am perfectly fine not actually hacking the Enigma cultivar itself but opening up the door to some new chapter in that book. Plus, this is vital information for possibly making different crosses involving more than one superfreak.

Well wish me luck, maybe i can do some of my own science on this lineage and come up with new info or at least data, or if not data at least more hypotheses.





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    • Edited by Solipsis (01/12/21 07:40 PM)

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    Re: Project Turing - Crossing Enigma x Rustywhyte [Re: Solipsis]
        #27144487 -

    very neat


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    Re: Project Turing - Crossing Enigma x Rustywhyte [Re: Solipsis]
        #27144493 -

    Yoooo 5 stars for this one


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    You never kno

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    Re: Project Turing - Crossing Enigma x Rustywhyte [Re: Shroomhunts]
        #27144507 -

    Dude that's pretty cool, the caps are like inside out

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    Re: Project Turing - Crossing Enigma x Rustywhyte [Re: Hikeadellic]
        #27197455 -

    :rockon:
    Impressive stuff homie!

    What are you gonna call em? I'd suggest "Insyde out" or "brain Chyld".


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    Re: Project Turing - Crossing Enigma x Rustywhyte [Re: mycorry]
        #27197470 -

    Quote:
    bw86 said:
    ------
    These fruits came from combing two spawn jars one with enigma
    Moby's foaf :tongue:-Mycotopia post#14




    Maybe the enigma can cause mutations in genes without forming any sort of hybrid :shrug:?


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    Re: Project Turing - Crossing Enigma x Rustywhyte [Re: bw86]
        #27197487 -

    it certainly has damaged genes somewhere, I hope the strain is properly taken care of ( I got slants from the original plates  though)


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    I'm tired do me a favor

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    Re: Project Turing - Crossing Enigma x Rustywhyte [Re: cronicr]
        #27197602 -

    Where can I learn more about properly taking care of strains

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    Re: Project Turing - Crossing Enigma x Rustywhyte [Re: Hikeadellic]
        #27197611 -

    not much to learn really , the less cell division the better , slant early and take care of your slants.
    for example you don't want to start with a master then g2g that to a hundred jars and spawn those at 1:10 and take a clone , that's too much cell division to pass around which I see a lot of with enigma where people grow tubs and put it back yo agar to give their friends who do the same thing and it just keeps repeating and sooner or later people will see slow growing lack luster cultures


    --------------------
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    I'm tired do me a favor

    I'M A MEMBER FIRST, TC WHEN NEEDED AND MOD WHEN I HAVE TO BE !!!

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    Re: Project Turing - Crossing Enigma x Rustywhyte [Re: Solipsis]
        #27319043 -

    nice...

    the "diamond cross tek" is certainly a lovely tool.. 

    the biggest questions thus far though..  does the potency of enigma gravitate into the crossed strain?  i'm doing a similar cross of tw2, please update any more detail if anything cool happen.

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    Re: Project Turing - Crossing Enigma x Rustywhyte [Re: Solipsis]
        #27509906 -

    Solipsis said:



    This is crazy cool work. Oh, this image looks like pins melting into blob mutants. lol.

    What is "di-mono mating"? A web search shows this thread as the main / only result.

    I'm assuming it's finding a single spore of each under a microscope, pushing them together and yelling "KISSSSSS!" but don't know.

    That sounds like very steady hand, patient work, and I really like what you're doing. Thank you for doing it.


    --------------------
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    Re: Project Turing - Crossing Enigma x Rustywhyte [Re: nektar61]
        #27574158 -

    nektar61 said:
    What is "di-mono mating"? A web search shows this thread as the main / only result.



    Mating an already dikaryotic cell with a monokaryon. There shouldn't be any monokaryotic mycelium of Enigma around, as there are no spores yet.

    https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Six-different-possibilities-of-how-mating-occurs-and-the-pattern-of-nuclear-and_fig1_258374711



    Interesting endeavor, Solipsis. Hope you are still on board and this project hopefully bore some fruits and you were just too lazy to post your results. :grin:

    A little research led me to this paper:
    https://journals.asm.org/doi/full/10.1128/EC.5.4.683-695.2006

    The authors describe, how mutation of a protein in S. commune lead to what I have learned are some traits of the Enigma phenotype (Wasn't able to observe firsthand, only from descriptions and pics, so correct me if I'm wrong):

    - slow growth rate
    - disoriented growth patterns
    - increased pin formation
    - no or abnormal gills, no spores

    If I had to, I'd assume that a similar mechanism is involved. Mutation in a regulator of some pathway involved in the fruit body development and shaping that disrupts the morphology and formation of hymenia.

    So you say your crosses produce spores? Are they sterile?


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    Re: Project Turing - Crossing Enigma x Rustywhyte [Re: Waldfried]
        #27590035 -

    Wow looks weird and cool

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    Re: Project Turing - Crossing Enigma x Rustywhyte [Re: Anand]
        #27590051 -

    Very nice project Solipsis

    Look forward to seeing what the future brings

    All the best with it :rockon:

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    Re: Project Turing - Crossing Enigma x Rustywhyte [Re: SingularFusion]
        #27593200 -

    Wow this is crazy shit! :rockon:


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    Re: Project Turing - Crossing Enigma x Rustywhyte [Re: Pastywhyte] * 1
        #27593301 -

    Mutant looking blobs turning to pins is pretty common with RW to begin with right?



    This is a great project i can’t remember seeing another one where an actual mono/di cross was made instead of mixing spawn.


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    Re: Project Turing - Crossing Enigma x Rustywhyte [Re: A.k.a]
        #27593307 -

    Crazy though: Maybe there is a mycovirus that makes the enigma enigma that you simply spread to the rusty white.

    Anyway super badass stuff cant wait to see f2 and beyond.

    Edit: that makes no sense since rw was a mono. Hi mom. :tongue:


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    Edited by sandman420 (12/24/21 05:42 PM)

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    Re: Project Turing - Crossing Enigma x Rustywhyte [Re: sandman420]
        #27595085 -

    I've been working with Enigma and a few other blob cultures about 2 years now. I'm ashamed I didn't think of utilizing the Buller phenomenon before with Enigma.

    My current hypothesis is that there is a mutation or stack of recessive genes in the transcriptome DNA/RNA. In the Tribe's anomalies and mutants thread, there is an AA+ blob that predates Enigma. In my own studies, I have found (personally and from other accounts) a high probability of blob cultures (I call them Pseudocarps) from the F1 of crossed varieties. Currently I have had the opportunity to investigate Enigma, Pneuma (a B+ blob), and Starry Night (a blob from the F1 of my Melmak TP/Golden Halo project).

    One thing is for sure,the trait is heritable. In two of the lines I established in my TP/GH cross, there is a tendency for blobs to pop up like swPE, but usually in the second flush, not the first, and with the finned or fingered blobs like enigma, not round egg-like blobs.

    Will definitely be using di-mon with blobs in the future. It just gets me, because I have a di-mon project right now with a Koh Samui squat clone and two leucistic India Orissa mons as a demo for the phenomenon.

    Good luck!

    GOGH.Starry Night, Blob from F1 cross


    "Golog" a Melmak TP culture


    --------------------
    A beginning is the time for taking the most delicate care that the balances are correct. This every sister of the Bene Gesserit knows.



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    Re: Project Turing - Crossing Enigma x Rustywhyte [Re: Muad.Dweeb]
        #27595342 -

    Holy shit!


    That mmtp mutation is by far my favorite. Never seen anything like that, it’s like the most enigma you can get while still looking like a mushroom.


    --------------------
    LAGM2020

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    Re: Project Turing - Crossing Enigma x Rustywhyte [Re: A.k.a]
        #27596157 -

    Yeah a weirdo for sure. I've seen a bunch of fruits that pin from aborts, but nothing like that culture.


    --------------------
    A beginning is the time for taking the most delicate care that the balances are correct. This every sister of the Bene Gesserit knows.



    How to Breed like the Bene Gesserit
    The Weirding Way - Advanced Bene Gesserit Techniques

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