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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Re: TWUMP 2020 [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 2
    #26676277 -

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Sulfurshelfsean said:
I think his father being in the russian mafia is a pretty obvious russian mafia link...


So Trump doing business with a Russian-American citizen working for an American company, whose father might have been in the Russian mafia makes Trump guilty of what exactly?

I apologize, I don't seem to be as smart as the rest of you to figure this out so easily.  :shrug:


Youre not debating in good faith. All I was saying was that If someone's father is in the russian mafia, then they have an obvious link to the russian mafia. Where did I imply that trump was guilty of anything? Nowhere.

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Re: TWUMP 2020 [Re: Stable Genius]
    #26676685 -

Stable Genius said:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
What wrongdoing does this show Trump has done?


Ummm that Trump is able to surround himself with criminals and be too stupid to know they're criminals?


Is there something wrong about working with someone who had a criminal background?  When I got out of business school and I tried to raise money from venture capitalists to start my own business, I assure you I didn't investigate the backgrounds of the people who were willing to invest in me as long as their terms were good.  Money is hard to find.

Stable Genius said:
So, I guess, seeing as we have no evidence, we will have to assume that poor Donald was fooled again and unfairly compromised by those pesky Russian mafia crims again, talk about more bad luck.


Fooled into what?  Hanging out with people with a lot of money to lend?  Is there something wrong with that?

Stable Genius said:
Maybe he thought those oligarchs were just normal self made billionaires like himself? That's an honest mistake I could see anyone make.


Everyone knows how oligarchs in Russia became rich.  When Russia converted to capitalism, the powerful bought ownership of all the businesses in Russia for pennies on the dollar, effectively stealing everything from the rest of the Russian people.  I've talked about this before, and your article even mentions it: "Arif started the firm backed by oligarchs and money they stole from the Russian people."

Stable Genius said:
Quote:
On the few occasions he has been questioned about his business entanglements with Russians, however, Trump has offered broad denials. “I tweeted out that I have no dealings with Russia,” he said at a press conference in January, when asked if Russia has any “leverage” over him, financial or otherwise. “I have no deals that could happen in Russia, because we’ve stayed away. And I have no loans with Russia. I have no loans with Russia at all.” In May, when he was interviewed by NBC’s Lester Holt, Trump seemed hard-pressed to think of a single connection he had with Russia. “I have had dealings over the years where I sold a house to a very wealthy Russian many years ago,” he said. “I had the Miss Universe pageant—which I owned for quite a while—I had it in Moscow a long time ago. But other than that, I have nothing to do with Russia."


There you have it, straight from the Don's mouth, nothing to do with Russia.
I think that closes the case.


Again, Bayrock was an American company.  And your own article alleging that Bayrock was "substantially and covertly mob-owned and operated” also said "The lawsuit, which is ongoing, does not claim that Trump was complicit in the alleged scam."

I'm not sure what case you think you've closed.  That some of Trump's investors were criminals?  If that's the case you're trying to make, then I'll agree.  If you're trying to make the case that Trump is guilty of wrongdoing from this, I'll have to still ask what wrongdoing?

The FBI couldn't find anything, can you?


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: TWUMP 2020 [Re: Seriously_trippin]
    #26676692 -

Seriously_trippin said:
Promise: I will surround myself with the best people promise kept he surrounds people that are best for him. Loyal enough to do the dirty work and hope he gets Barr to recommend no more prison time or pardon people.


As I've pointed out before, Flynn was wrongly set up and should have been let go (I even started a thread about this before it happened).


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: TWUMP 2020 [Re: Sulfurshelfsean]
    #26676696 -

Sulfurshelfsean said:
Youre not debating in good faith. All I was saying was that If someone's father is in the russian mafia, then they have an obvious link to the russian mafia. Where did I imply that trump was guilty of anything? Nowhere.


So you weren't debating Trump wrongdoing?  Fine, we're aligned.  :thumbup:


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: TWUMP 2020 [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #26676777 -

Quote:
Is there something wrong about working with someone who had a criminal background?  When I got out of business school and I tried to raise money from venture capitalists to start my own business, I assure you I didn't investigate the backgrounds of the people who were willing to invest in me as long as their terms were good.  Money is hard to find.



Your lack of due diligence doesn’t mean it’s not careless behavior, and it certainly could put your finances and reputation at risk. Trump could have chosen to limit entangling his finances with people of ill repute, but he doesn’t seem to care. It is perfectly reasonable to criticize him for these relationships and to have a higher level skepticism about the nature of these relationships and his business practices.


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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Re: TWUMP 2020 [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26676784 -

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Seriously_trippin said:
Promise: I will surround myself with the best people promise kept he surrounds people that are best for him. Loyal enough to do the dirty work and hope he gets Barr to recommend no more prison time or pardon people.


As I've pointed out before, Flynn was wrongly set up and should have been let go (I even started a thread about this before it happened).


This is such bullshit. He wasn’t set up. He lied about his conversations with the Russian ambassador. Nobody forced him to lie. He chose to lie. He admitted under oath that he lied. He was fired by the Trump administration for lying. He seems like he’s just a fundamentally dishonest person.


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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Re: TWUMP 2020 [Re: koods] * 1
    #26676834 -

For a bunch of people who acknowledge Trump is a corrupt dipshit y’all sure do spend a lot of time arguing about it.


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Re: TWUMP 2020 [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #26677004 -

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Is there something wrong about working with someone who had a criminal background?  When I got out of business school and I tried to raise money from venture capitalists to start my own business, I assure you I didn't investigate the backgrounds of the people who were willing to invest in me as long as their terms were good.  Money is hard to find.


lol I am a criminal, that's how I started my business. You take the cash, live off the money, funnel some through the bank account as cash income and pay a small amount of tax, but I'm not running for office and I can tell you right now there's no paper trail.

Quote:
Fooled into what? Hanging out with people with a lot of money to lend?  Is there something wrong with that?


Yes, it's called bad judgement if those rich people are most likely mafia stooges.

Quote:
Everyone knows how oligarchs in Russia became rich.  When Russia converted to capitalism, the powerful bought ownership of all the businesses in Russia for pennies on the dollar, effectively stealing everything from the rest of the Russian people.  I've talked about this before, and your article even mentions it: "Arif started the firm backed by oligarchs and money they stole from the Russian people."


So using that logic Trump was knowingly using money stolen from the people of Russia is that what you're saying? If that's so, why do you go so hard at Bill Browder yet tell everyone we make you defend Trump? I'm having trouble following your altruism, it appears you have a double standard there Falcon?

Quote:
"The lawsuit, which is ongoing, does not claim that Trump was complicit in the alleged scam."

I'm not sure what case you think you've closed.  That some of Trump's investors were criminals?  If that's the case you're trying to make, then I'll agree.


Cool.

Quote:
The FBI couldn't find anything, can you?


Is that a serious question? I think I probably would have posted that if I had any WHICH I DON'T. I'VE JUST GOT A NEWS ARTICLE TO DISCUSS being as I am on the other side of the world.
:hatsoff:

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Re: TWUMP 2020 [Re: Stable Genius] * 3
    #26677027 -

I can say with virtual certainty that it is well within the abilities of the inteigence community to find evidence of Trump breaking the law. They just didn’t want to.


--------------------

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Re: TWUMP 2020 [Re: The Ecstatic] * 1
    #26677050 -

Russian mobster: "Donald, here is money from Russian people, please launder".

Donald: "Here's the invoice for -----insert amount---- for using my name. That's probably, and people say this, the best invoice they've ever seen".

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Re: TWUMP 2020 [Re: koods]
    #26677104 -

koods said:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Seriously_trippin said:
Promise: I will surround myself with the best people promise kept he surrounds people that are best for him. Loyal enough to do the dirty work and hope he gets Barr to recommend no more prison time or pardon people.


As I've pointed out before, Flynn was wrongly set up and should have been let go (I even started a thread about this before it happened).


This is such bullshit. He wasn’t set up. He lied about his conversations with the Russian ambassador. Nobody forced him to lie. He chose to lie. He admitted under oath that he lied. He was fired by the Trump administration for lying. He seems like he’s just a fundamentally dishonest person.


So what, he was never supposed to be investigated in the first place.


--------------------
I'm a Lightweight.  I like to eat like two caps at a time.

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Re: TWUMP 2020 [Re: meltdowner]
    #26677107 -

Why should he be immune to investigation?


--------------------
Censoring opposing views since 2014.



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Re: TWUMP 2020 [Re: Enlil]
    #26677129 -

Enlil said:
Why should he be immune to investigation?


No one is, but to do so just to try and get them to lie under oath is unacceptable behavior.


--------------------
I'm a Lightweight.  I like to eat like two caps at a time.

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Re: TWUMP 2020 [Re: meltdowner]
    #26677131 -

That's not what happened though.


--------------------
Censoring opposing views since 2014.



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Re: TWUMP 2020 [Re: Stable Genius]
    #26677167 -

Stable Genius said:
lol I am a criminal, that's how I started my business. You take the cash, live off the money, funnel some through the bank account as cash income and pay a small amount of tax


Is that what happened?  I don't like Trump, so you should submit your evidence to the FBI since they couldn't find anything in their investigation.  (edit - never mind, you said later in your post that you didn't have it)

Stable Genius said:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Everyone knows how oligarchs in Russia became rich.  When Russia converted to capitalism, the powerful bought ownership of all the businesses in Russia for pennies on the dollar, effectively stealing everything from the rest of the Russian people.  I've talked about this before, and your article even mentions it: "Arif started the firm backed by oligarchs and money they stole from the Russian people."


So using that logic Trump was knowingly using money stolen from the people of Russia is that what you're saying? If that's so, why do you go so hard at Bill Browder yet tell everyone we make you defend Trump? I'm having trouble following your altruism, it appears you have a double standard there Falcon?


I need to explain it better then.  When Russia converted to capitalism, the powerful bought the country's resources for pennies on the dollar and became extremely wealthy (including Putin), just the way the US told them to do it, to help motivate Russian leadership to convert to capitalism.  The people of Russia got royally screwed in the process.

Once the powerful made their billions and became 'oligarchs', Putin told them they would have to pay their taxes just like everyone else.  LONG after that happened, Bill Browder decided he wanted to screw the Russian people out of $230 million in taxes.  Do you see the difference, or should I explain it further?

Stable Genius said:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
The FBI couldn't find anything, can you?


Is that a serious question? I think I probably would have posted that if I had any WHICH I DON'T. I'VE JUST GOT A NEWS ARTICLE TO DISCUSS being as I am on the other side of the world.
:hatsoff:


Fair enough, but the things in your article are things we've all known about during the investigation, and things koods kept telling us would amount to something in the Mueller report.  They didn't.  :shrug:


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: TWUMP 2020 [Re: Enlil]
    #26677188 -

Enlil said:
meltdowner said:
...to try and get them to lie under oath is unacceptable behavior.


That's not what happened though.


Offering immunity for Michael Flynn's son in exchange for Michael Flynn pleading guilty seems to be coercive behavior.  :shrug:


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: TWUMP 2020 [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26677222 -

Quote:
that what happened?  I don't like Trump, so you should submit your evidence to the FBI since they couldn't find anything in their investigation


What investigation? Do you have evidence the FBI investigated trumps finances? The people who are trying have been taken to the Supreme Court to prevent it from happening.


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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Re: TWUMP 2020 [Re: koods]
    #26677286 -

Is this is your latest excuse to keep pushing Russia-Gate?

Who are these people that have been trying to investigate his finances?  The FBI, or private citizens bitter that the Russia-Gate investigation was a big failure?


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: TWUMP 2020 [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26677306 -

How was the investigation a failure? they got to the bottom of some criminal activity. Even if they didn’t, an investigation that doesn’t find any criminal activity isn’t a failure. Investigations are about fact finding.


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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Re: TWUMP 2020 [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #26677315 -

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Enlil said:
meltdowner said:
...to try and get them to lie under oath is unacceptable behavior.


That's not what happened though.


Offering immunity for Michael Flynn's son in exchange for Michael Flynn pleading guilty seems to be coercive behavior.  :shrug:


Welcome to the American justice system. Nobody seems to care about that kind of behavior when it doesn’t happen to a member of the privileged class like Flynn


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

General Interest > Political Discussion
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