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Re: ego loss [Re: Lux]
    #2649133 -

okay...that does bring a new sense to this whole ego deal.


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ca'rouse (k-rouz)
intr.v.
To engage in boisterous, drunken merrymaking.

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Re: ego loss [Re: Lux]
    #2649202 -

I didnt say it did, just that the mind may store memories from ego loss experience in a different way to those we gain from normal conciousness.

I dont think of the ego as the fakest part of the mind. I just see it as a collection of programs which dictate how we react to certain situations.


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Always Smi2le

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Re: ego loss [Re: TODAY]
    #2649376 -

you bring up a great point TODAY!!!


I remember on a salvia trip I had, my ego was destroyed, but I was still left with something. I knew something was going on...but I didn't know what. I was AWARE, that is all. awareness is our essential true nature, that is, the part of us that doesn't change. the ego gives us the ability to evaluate through the rational mind's constant catagorizing of our surroundings. our ego holds our opinions of what is right and what is wrong, it holds our personality. that's why when you have ego loss, you don't know "who" you are. this is why when I experinced ego loss, it was hard for me to put things into words...because there weren't any! the chatter was gone. the ego wasn't using my rational mind to keep on scanning away at my surroundings. it is also the reason why I couldn't bring a whole lot of the experience back with me because my ego wasn't logging in my mind what this was and what that was. The ego is like a filter that chooses what our awareness will be aware of.

it's very important to realize that you are not your personality, it's jsut what you "think you are." as you realize this over and over, your ego can relax then because your awareness won't be dominated over opinions of what's happening, but rather just knowing what is happening. it's a basis of neutrality that will lead to serenity.


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Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.

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Re: ego loss [Re: kaiowas]
    #2649534 -

GazzBut
definitely on the right track

memory engrams are burned/(linkages are actually grown) as patterns occur from sensory and memory input to the cortex.

they are recalled when parts of those same patterns recurr, and then enhanced as we direct attention towards them.

the entheogen effect extends the fadeout of all signals thickenning up the experience of the moment, and introducing a few new kinds of patterns that are astonishingly unfamiliar.

initially the curious (enhanced) patterns help us to drop our defences so we can see more of nature unfold as it is.
But when unfaded stimuli build beyond a certain pleasant amount of acumulation (trails -> melting -> mergeing -> cosmic chaos), we can become quite shocked at how unfamiliar things are, and even accessing our regular memory produces unintelligible combinations as several seconds of accrued signals have still not faded, so the resolution of what is actually happenning "NOW" is very uncertain.


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: ego loss [Re: hairs]
    #2649620 -

EGO IS WHAT MAKES YOU THINK THAT YOU ARE SEPERATE FROM NATURE.

YOU ARE NATURE.

WE ARE ONE


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The Source Of The Force
Is The Power Of The Mind


"if you don't like what you're doing, you can always pick up your needle and move to another groove." - timothy leary"
Anno: "-I can do anything with those clouds!"
Annos Tek



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Re: ego loss [Re: Sterile]
    #2649816 -

any dualistic thinking separates one from nature
like the meaningful use of words in sentences.
one has to move back to a non-dual state intentionally.


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: ego loss [Re: redgreenvines]
    #2650979 -

The idea that anything can seperate us from nature appears false to me. Nature can make mistakes. Nature makes mistake through us, we just think "we" make these mistakes.


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Always Smi2le

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Re: ego loss [Re: GazzBut]
    #2651028 -

GazzBut said:
I dont think of the ego as the fakest part of the mind. I just see it as a collection of programs which dictate how we react to certain situations.



What would you consider to be a faker part of the self then that?

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Re: ego loss [Re: Lux]
    #2651056 -

Well I dont consider any part of the mind to be fake i suppose. As I said, I see the ego as a bunch of programs, no more no less. To be honest? right now, i really dont know!! I just know i need a bunch of programs (ego?) to get me through my day to day life and I know that these programs all need upgrading as regularly as possible. Thats about all "I" know!

Peace  :grin:


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Always Smi2le

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Re: ego loss [Re: GazzBut]
    #2652760 -

Being dualistic (as per usual) is a functional aspect of ego which is a functional part of our organism; and it is an expression of nature at its best - so it is not a mistake by any means.
When we are non-dualistic, we see that nature emerges through duality, even revels in it. attuning to all ongoing creation provides the perspective.
you see it
you let go
you see seeing
keep letting go


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: ego loss [Re: GazzBut]
    #2652796 -

Nature makes everything anyway, but i dont think it actually cares if we call a part of the outcome a "mistkake" Only humans judge between right and wrong.


--------------------
The Source Of The Force
Is The Power Of The Mind


"if you don't like what you're doing, you can always pick up your needle and move to another groove." - timothy leary"
Anno: "-I can do anything with those clouds!"
Annos Tek



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Re: ego loss [Re: Sterile]
    #2653145 -

> any dualistic thinking separates one from nature like the meaningful use of words in sentences.

Meaning is in the brain of the beholder.  For example, if somebody were to ask me "Is suicide bad or evil", my reply might be "Blue is green".  For most, my reply will make no sense at all; others will understand the meaning.  I agree that dualistic thinking seperates one from nature, but I do not agree that ones use of words in sentences seperates one from nature. 

> Only humans judge between right and wrong.

:smile:


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Just another spore in the wind.

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Re: ego loss [Re: Seuss]
    #2657667 -

well, Seuss, how do you form sentences without dualistic thinking?

though you could return to the awareness that dualistic thinking is part of nature, and if you keep this mental attitude, as an awake point in nature observing process as a gestalt, then the dualistic sentence formation becomes part of something else - observed integrally a passing wavelet in the ocean of gestalt.

It takes a real good juggler to do it, even to accept it as possible.

otherwise, use of words as sounds (i.e. mantra chant etc.) without (reflective) meaning and formation of sentences, can be an entry into non-dualistic (non-reflective) mental process.

to link words, is to select between, what choice could be non-dualistic?


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: ego loss [Re: hairs]
    #2657715 -

In response to TODAY's question.
The ultimate form of ego-loss/transcendance is "enlightenment". While people may experience egolessness during their lives, there is still a shred of ego left for them to go back to. When one completely transcends their ego, they are eternally in the present. There is no recollection because it is a state of oneness with all, no distinction between past, present, future, or anything for that matter. It is non-dualistic, "cosmic consciousness". There are many names for such a state, but of course they are only names. The best way I can think of describing it is seeing reality, the true nature of the universe. This true nature lacks seperation.

Know that this post is a rehash of things that I have read, but I firmly believe it through faith and contemplation but not experience.

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Re: ego loss [Re: redgreenvines]
    #2659169 -

> well, Seuss, how do you form sentences without dualistic thinking?

http://www.zen-deshimaru.com/EN/sangha/deshimaru/q-r/1111.htm

Quote:
Mushin: nonthought. D. T. Suzuki wrote at length on mushin. It's "nonthought," "unconsciously," "mind without thought," nothought. It is the essence of Zen. Supposing you do something or want something in your ordinary life: if you act consciously, you are not mushin. If the impulse is expressed as conscious thought, it is not Zen. That is why training in a practice that involves the muscles and whole body is so important. It's important for speaking too. Most people speak after the brain has given them the order to do so. But if you become mushin, hishiryo, you can speak unconsciously, without thought. Take a mondo: if you ask a professor a question he has to think before he answers. But the Zen monk answers without thinking, unconsciously. That's why a Zen mondo is important. It's the same with actions. The brain thinks and you act afterward. That is not mushin. Mushin is the body thinking If you understand that, you can understand Zen. Most Zen stories have to do with mushin. Wisdom and intellectual learning are not the same. In everyday life, in conversations, most people think first and then answer; but very intelligent people use wisdom and do not think. They speak band answer through intuition. Book-learning is different from true knowledge. In time, one ceases using the brain to answer questions. Through zazen you can understand how one can speak unconsciously. Your superficial brain rests and your inner brain becomes active and receives energy. In a mondo my answers come from the inner brain; the activity begins there. My inner brain answers you unconsciously, mushin. That's why a zen mondo is different from an oral examination at the university. Speaking out of one's book-learning is not wisdom. From long practice of zazen you will acquire this unconsciously: wisdom, not book-learning. When I give a talk, for example, I must prepare what I am going to say. Learning first ... and a bit of wisdom. But the moment I stand up in the hall I begin to talk unconsciously and I don't always stick to what I have prepared. I look at the faces and see whether I need to change my talk. There is no more plan, my words come out of the unconscious, and that is why they impress people so strongly. That is teisho. Buddhist philosophy and Zen philosophy do not entail knowledge alone. That is true of the martial arts too. How should I act? If I have to think about everything I ought to do I will not be able to act effectively at all. So mushin is necessary; it enables the body to react without thinking. That is why the practice of zazen is so useful in the martial arts. If you think too long your opponent will be quicker than you.





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Just another spore in the wind.

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Re: ego loss [Re: Phencyclidine]
    #2663076 -

More important than ego cessation is the cessation of ego centrism.


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:poison: Dark Triangles - New Psychedelic Techno Single - Listen on Soundcloud :poison:
Gyroscope full album available SoundCloud or MySpace

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Re: ego loss [Re: hairs]
    #2663178 -

I want to add my two cents... but time is limited so I scanned this thread and posted... if this post is redundant I apologize.

(Edit) I have read this thread now, and this post looks like it is supporting Seuss.

I had this exact discussion with my gf this weekend.

What is ego?

Ego is how we lable things... language is not ego... but it came from ego.

Here is an example from the Bible... true or not... there is a great example of ego in Genesis.

When Adam named all the animals in Eden, he was exercising his ego. He named things so they could be described... but he also, limited each of thise things when he named them. From that point on... everything had a limiting lable... but these lables also, allowed people to communicate what they saw.

Ego allows us to lable things so we can describe them to others.

The problem with ego and lables is: they are faulty. They limit what they describe.

Let me give you an example and (hopefully) your ego will do the rest.

I am going to say two words from USA polotics:

Democrat

and

Republican

Both words lable people in political parties... still they are imperfect... let me explain.

If you are liberal or conservative, both of those words would mean something different.

A liberal person should react positively to Democrat and negatively to Republican.

If you are conservative, chances are you reacted positively to Republican and negatively to Democrat.

But both words mean what they mean right?

Wrong.

Those words only mean what they mean to the person that hears 'em... once you hear a word, your ego attaches your lable to that word. This lable... limits the word... contorts it into something that means much less to you than the word itself could mean.

Does this make sense?

I think it is funny when people say, "My ego is my identity."

It isn't... it is only your ego.

But being your ego... it wants you to think it is more important than it actually is... your ego wants you to think it is your identity... for, you see... your ego is very egotistical.

Ever notice how when a person has an ego loss trip... they always say, "Words can not describe..."?

Thanks for your time.


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.


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Re: ego loss [Re: Rose]
    #2663531 -

I am glad seuss referred to zen for non-dualism or no-separation, and thinking with the body (which extends well beyond the skin -especially on salvia).

We see the light from stars emitted in the past. some of those stars no longer exist, but their light is in our experience.

People act out their learned routines (like stars shining) and often by the time the significance of any act is established the minds of these people have progressed beyond.

We are looking at the old people's intentions - the ego detruitus.
The empty shells still acting it out and getting things done.

The belief which needs to be shaken, is that the self is the demonstration, but the monstration or monster aspect is just the trail of ego. Thankfully we have ego so that what we have practiced can be repeated to get us through the day.

Still it is like light from those stars, the mere residue of beings engaged in various pursuits.

so ego loss:
dysfunction of the learned expressions?
or
perception of the emptiness of the light from our star persisting after we have moved.


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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